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Controversial View - footwear
jo.pickering
Aug. 5, 2011, 4:46 a.m. (Message 61638)
Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe. My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes. Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young. I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours. Jo Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
Jo wrote: > Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, > ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe. Yes, I have tried other types of soft-soled shoes, but was not satisfied with them because of either weight/heaviness of the entire shoe or a sole that gripped the floor, both leading to early and excessive fatigue. Not getting a good toe point was displeasing, but not decisive in my abandoning them. I've not worn ghillies for many years. I prefer the Capezio "jazz" shoe. The latter doesn't seem that much more substantial than ghillies, but somehow it feels better on my feet. Maybe it's that slight, low heel that makes the difference. I wear them for both SCD and ECD. Now that I think of it, there was one shoe, made by Rockport about 25 years ago, that was just right for contra, ECD, and SCD. Trim, shaped like a ballet slipper, but with a soft (composite?) sole, arch support, and a strap. One could get a decent toe point in them. Suede. Lightweight, but with just enough cushioning for the harder floors. The company stopped making them in the late 80s. I bought several at a close-out sale, but they are all gone now. Pat Charlottesville, Virginia USA
jo.pickering wrote: > Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, > ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe. > > My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo > competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary > shoes. Jo, I don't think this is a controversial view at all. Try again :^) During a period of Achilles tendon trouble, I have had good experiences with »jazz« shoes that are soft yet have a (low) heel. I would recommend people who are unhappy with ghillies/flat shoes visit a ballet supply shop, where there is usually a wide selection of all sorts of shoes that are, in my opinion, suitable for SCD. »Ordinary shoes« are, unfortunately, out of the question at least in our club in Frankfurt as we are dancing in a school gymnasium where anything other than dedicated, i.e., not also worn in the street, sports-type shoes are Officially Forbidden by the owner of the premises (the city of Frankfurt). > I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I > feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure > they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours. In my opinion, no one should »feel obliged« to wear shoes that cause them discomfort or even pain. After all, SCD is supposed to be an enjoyable activity. In the spirit of sprucing up the Strathspey web site, why don't we start a footwear gallery? If people have had favourable experiences with shoes other than ghillies or ballet pumps for SCD, do send me a photograph and a short explanation and I'll make up a page so others can see what is out there. Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx In fact, the notion that any ancient book could be an infallible guide to living in the present gets my vote for being the most dangerously stupid idea on earth. -- Sam Harris
Pia wrote:
> Anselm - should that be pics of shoes 'as new' or 'I have worn these for
> some time' LOL
I suppose if one can still recognise that it is a shoe we should be fine ;^)
Maybe we'll get several pictures of the same sort of shoe at various stages of
decay and we can have a before-after set of images.
Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-- Samuel Beckett
Am 05.08.2011 04:46, schrieb jo.pickering: > Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie > (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe. Interesting idea. I started dancing with the softest shoe I had at that time (ordinary shoe with flexible leather sole and little heel) but this didn't work that well & felt clumsy (the extra weight of a normal shoe compared with a ghillie is quite hindering for SCD, I discovered). So with these kind of shoe out of the picture I wonder how much alternatives there actially are... I doubt that I will ever see a dancer in something like this: http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/jaya.aspx?gender=W but who knows ;) > > I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but > I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm > sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours. Good point as this mitgh be reason for some people to quit dancing. If I would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my enthusiasm for dancing... Personally I prefer shoes with thin flexible soles not only for dancing but also in everyday use (since going barefoot is not likely to go back in style soon ;) ) - but as far as I know not every foot agrees with the lack of support these shoes provide... Cord -- Cord Walter email: xxxx.xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx 2.5.03.02.005: Generally speaking, if you twiddle with something, it will break. Don't. Weil es niemanden etwas angeht, dass ich nichts zu verbergen habe: http://www.gnupg.org/ http://www.truecrypt.org/
Cord Walter wrote: > I doubt that I will ever see a dancer > in something like this: > > http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/jaya.aspx?gender=W > > but who knows ;) They have models for indoor sports which look as if they might work for SCD, but I suspect the rubber soles could be a problem. We used to let people wear indoor sneakers during their first weeks in our group, but we have started recommending against this since we had a spate of injuries that could be linked to the way their plastic soles tend to stick to the floor. These days we try to get people to buy leather-sole gym or ballet shoes ASAP, which isn't a big investment even if they at some point decide to shell out for ghillies. Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx It's as if _The Da Vinci Code_ had been written by someone who wasn't an idiot. -- Cory Doctorow, on »Manuscript« by Michael Stephan Fuchs
I too have experienced my very new dancers getting injured while dancing in sneakers due to the shoes gripping the floor. I now order a supply of these shoes when I am about to start a new beginner's class: http://www.discountdance.com/dancewear/style_FREE1.html They are sold in small, medium, and large (the flexible sizing makes it feasible to order a stock ahead of time) and fit most women, and smaller men. They are light, have a split sole, and they do well on slippery floors but don't stick on less-slippery floors. I let them try them for a week or two, most end up buying a pair from me (at cost). The selection of shoes available in local stores is not great, so by making an inexpensive pair of shoes readily available they are more likely to dance in something more appropriate than sneakers. > We used to let people wear indoor sneakers during their first weeks in our > group, but we have started recommending against this since we had a spate > of > injuries that could be linked to the way their plastic soles tend to stick > to > the floor. These days we try to get people to buy leather-sole gym or > ballet > shoes ASAP, which isn't a big investment even if they at some point decide > to > shell out for ghillies. > > Anselm > -- Patty Lindsay Beavercreek, Ohio
2011/8/5 Cord Walter <xxxx.xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> > > If I > would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my enthusiasm > for dancing... > I came to feel very uncomfortable in ghillies and gave them up many years ago (too tight, no elasticity, especially when "reinforced" with plastic). > > ... going barefoot is not likely to go back > in style soon ... > Style is what you feel comfortable with; if you want to follow other people's ideas, don 't complain if it hurts (smile!). Someone suggest photos of our favorite footwear. My feet have often been filmed and photoed, but I'm not sure I have any pictures myself, so a verbal description will have to do. I can dance comfortably only in bare feet (or sock-covered feet, when it's too cold, or if I want to look like everyone else). No "support" (whatever that may be), as nature intended. No need to start any discussion; it's all in the archives. Martin
On the subject of footwear for Scottish Country Dancing, you may find Bill Clement's contribution to the Kaleidoscope conference of interest. It is available online (courtesy of Anselm and the Strathspey server) at: http://scdkaleidoscope1.strathspey.org/videos/05-bill-clement Susi Susi Mayr Vienna (Austria) & Kent (England) --- On Fri, 5/8/11, jo.pickering <xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: From: jo.pickering <xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> Subject: Controversial View - footwear To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: Friday, 5 August, 2011, 2:46 Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe. My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes. Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young. I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours. Jo Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball of my foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are debilitating. I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers -- http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2 They're great, and come in several colors, which I like. They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel. I like them very much. BTW, the neuroma was caused by wearing tights with lycra that squeezed my toes together (probably wearing these 4-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, over a period of about 10 years or so with only about a 2 month summer break). I wear toe-less tights now, and it has helped some, but nerve damage, I understand, is permanent. Linda Mae
My wife is using a pair of Bloch split-sole jazz sneakers that look very much like these while all her "regular" dance ghillies are at the shoe shop. She reports they worked very well at class last night. I've been dealing with plantar fasciitis for a couple years now and usually wear an oversized set of ghillies that can accommodate my orthotics, but that's not optimal for pointing. I've been looking at alternative footwear for dancing so am very interested in this discussion myself. -Steve
Ahh Ibuprofen Gel - works wonders :>) And try fishnet tights - great give and air. Wearing either dance pumps 1-2 sizes too small for me, en pointe ballet shoes from too early an age and ball room shoes with high heel every day for 12 years. Now don't give a hoot what I wear as long as I am comfortable - although when I call/dance ceilidh I usually wear high-heeled ball room shoes (and Ibuprofen gel) :>) Pia
For some mysterious reason, ibuprofen gel is not sold in the US. I did an internet order for a couple tubes from a pharmacy in Thunder Bay, ON, though, and I agree with Pia that's it's a wonder-drug (I was going to say panacea, but it's useless for myopia). Mike Briggs 1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
It is anti-inflammatory and a pain relief and instead of taking it internally it is rubbed on - if I know I'm going to strain my feet unreasonably, I'll put it on before the event - it means no pain during or after (I have had arthritis in my big toe joint and bunions since I was 20). In case of strains etc, where not feeling the pain can cause a worsening of the damage, I put it on at night, where the anti-inflammatories will work, but where I'm not putting a strain on the injury by moving too much. Of course you have to read the instructions so as not to take it if you have an underlying health condition. PIa
you tried it for myopia or just making wild assumptions? Bruce On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Norma or Mike Briggs <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>wrote: > For some mysterious reason, ibuprofen gel is not sold in the US. I did an > internet order for a couple tubes from a pharmacy in Thunder Bay, ON, > though, and I agree with Pia that's it's a wonder-drug (I was going to say > panacea, but it's useless for myopia). > > Mike Briggs > > 1519 Storytown Road > Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA > -- Bruce Herbold
I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I have very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find shoes that fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them there, but the new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are US ladies 10 WW for reference). So, does anyone know where one can purchase dancing shoes in very wide sizes? Sue in Chicago, USA
I am disappointed to learn that Seniors will not make custom shoes now. Fortunately, I have enough to last a while and I tend not to wear out my pumps that quickly. However, it could be a problem in the future. I was spoilt by the late Len Smith (a dancer and shoe maker here in New Zealand). He would always make my pumps to measure. Rhoda Tanner devised a very nice and relatively simple dance for Len - "Our Dancing Soutar" in "The Kauri Collection". It is well worth trying. Regards, Iain Boyd Postal Address - P O Box 11-404 Wellington 6142 New Zealand
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Iain Boyd <xxxx_xxxx_xxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>wrote: > I am disappointed to learn that Seniors will not make custom shoes now. > > Fortunately, I have enough to last a while and I tend not to wear out my > pumps that quickly. > > However, it could be a problem in the future. > > I was spoilt by the late Len Smith (a dancer and shoe maker here in New > Zealand). He would always make my pumps to measure. > > Rhoda Tanner devised a very nice and relatively simple dance for Len - "Our > Dancing Soutar" in "The Kauri Collection". It is well worth trying. > > > Regards, > > > Iain Boyd > > > Postal Address - > > P O Box 11-404 > Wellington 6142 > New Zealand > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Susan McKinnell <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> > To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 4:01 AM > Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear > > I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I have > very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find shoes that > fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them there, but the > new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are US ladies 10 WW for > reference). So, does anyone know where one can purchase dancing shoes in > very wide sizes? > Sue in Chicago, USA > -- Denise Smith 76 Celandine St Shailer Park Qld 4128 +617 3209 7006 xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx
Sue, I sympathise, I also have shoe problems but I have a long narrow foot. However, if you look at the following website they do quite a range of dance shoes including jazz shoes in your size, and men's ballet shoes which also come in large sizes. http://www.movedancewear.com/cat/dance_shoes_jazz_shoes/21_115/ Mary Quinton UK
I also use jazz sneakers at times, as they provide a fair amount of arch support. I'll use ghillies when I need a good point, or when I'm at an event where looks matter (ball or demo). Personally, I think people should wear whatever dance shoe suits their needs, especially if there are any health/comfort issues. BUT some types of shoes do promote better footwork among those of us who are basically healthy in the legs. Ballet slippers, ghillies and jazz shoes (the kind with the tiny bit of heel) seem to work equally well in the kid's classes I teach - I probably wouldn't allow a heavier shoe (even a dance sneaker) unless medically necessary. Isn't dancing in bare feet kind of unhygienic? Again, "my" kids like it but I insist on shoes for any dancing at socials and balls. Cheers, Kate Walker Austin TX
These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And they're relatively cheap. Cheers, Colleen Putt Bedford, Nova Scotia Quoting Patty Lindsay <xxxxx.xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:
This has been one of the most helpful threads on Strathspey in a long time! Thanks, all, for some great recommendations. I've been dealing with PF since TAC summer school last August. I stopped wearing ghillies about three years ago, as they hurt my bunions too much by scrunching my toes together. I've been wearing spenco pads in ballet slippers, which is definitley more comfortable. But now the Plantar Fasciitis has made it very difficult to stand for long periods of time in thin shoes during dance classes. Even though I start out feeling ok, by the end of two hours it hurts a lot. Especially when I'm teaching and don't get to dance much. Perhaps one of these dance shoes will help. Monica Pollard
I've had the big toe joint in my left foot removed, the toe is now held together with two steel pins. I also need to have the same joint in my right foot removed - but am waiting until after this year's NZ Summer School!!! Meanwhile, the pain is pretty bad. I've been wearing the Bloch 'Slipstream' for about 3 years now and find them very supportive and comfortable. I have had soft orthotics made to fit in them (expensive but essential). See them here: http://www.movedancewear.com/dance_shoes-bloch_slipstream_jazz_shoe/74/
When I get an attack of PF, I do a lot of stretching during the day - standing an arm lengths from the wall and then with my legs stretched lean towards said wall. Or standing with one leg in front of the other, bend the front leg and keeping the other stretched - I do this continually during the day. I also massage my feet using a ball - a golf or baseball does the trick. Plus I ensure my metatarsals gets pushed back into place as they tend to take the strain when the heel is sore. Pia
I'm coming late to this discussion, but thought I'd chime in, since I haven't seen what I wear mentioned yet in this thread. The Capezio "Dansleekers" have been recommended already, but I really like a different model from the one that was previously mentioned (that one is called "Freedom"). I really like the one called "Nimbus." http://www.onstagedancewear.com/PD-4053.aspx Like the "Freedom," they have a vaguely ghillie-like look, with the laces criss-crossing up the foot, and they have a relatively hard plastic/rubber split sole. It is not too grippy, but provide just a bit of traction on very slippery floors. This model is more expensive than the "Freedom," but it is also more substantial. I've got two pairs which I've been using heavily now for about 3-4 years and they are still going strong, though they are starting to show some wear. See also my previous post about these shoes on Strathspey: http://www.strathspey.org/list/strathspey/archive/msg/48813/ / Lara ***************************** Lara Friedman~Shedlov xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx *****************************