Thread
Index
Cross Cast Half Eight
Lmae
June 5, 2019, 6:36 p.m. (Message 70719)
It would be nice if I could search the SCDDB for this basic, 8 bar figure -- Cross with right hands, Cast Off one place, and dance a Half Figure of Eight. Does it go by another name that is searchable? Failing that, does anyone know of an already published dance with that figure AND Advance and Retire and Back to Back AND Rights and Lefts? Obviously, we're reviewing the basics this week. Thanks for your help, Linda Mae Dennis
It is what it says, why does it need a name? Call it a thingamejigger if you think that will help. George T Watt Sent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message -------- From: Bruce Herbold <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 05/06/2019 16:02 (GMT+00:00) To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx Subject: Re: Cross Cast Half Eight In historical English cd it is called “the figure”. No help here I’m afraid Bruce Herbold Oakland
Dear Linda Mae, The combined figure (Cross, cast, 1/2 Fig8 up) is not codified in SCDDB., and is not searchable. It is easy to find dances with specific figures. On the SCDDB page for dance searches (http://my.strathspey.org/dd/search/dance/), (which you can also reach from the home page http://my.strathspey.org/dd/ by the button "Extra" / "complex dance search"), you can fill in up to 3 formations. I filled in A&R, R&L and BtoB, and found 12 dances. Unfortunately I could not add the additional "half Fig8" (3 formation limit). This works, but the result is far from complete. For a very large fraction of the dances the formation information is missing or incomplete, and so this search will find only part of the dances that you are looking for, There is no workaround. Anselm is planning a great extension of the formation information on SCDDB, but I fear that it will take a long time to be implemented. The main barrier is that most dances don't yet have the figures fully codified. Sorry to disappoint you. Perhaps a group of enthusiasts should team together to help Anselm achieve this extension. If you discover a dance that might suit you, and the crib is missing, please just ask. Happy dancing, Eric Eric Ferguson Finsponglaan 27 NL -3707BT Zeist, Netherlands +31 30-267 3638 +31 6-1900 0911
Hi, In addition to the caveats mentioned by Eric, there is an interesting question about what constitutes a formation. All formations are sequences of some kind, but here we have a suggested "cross, cast, half figure of 8" - where the "half figure of 8" part is already considered as a known formation by SCDDB. The long awaited new formation system should help with the present problem that searching for "reel of three - half” will not find dances labelled as having “reel of three - on side - half”. However it is not clear to me that defining an extended sequence in the hoped for new system will avoid a similar problem, ie would a search for dances with “half figure of 8” find those identified as having a sequence “cross, cast, half figure of 8”? That could be a problem both of how formations are internally described and how the search facility would work along with how editors enter the information for each dance. If we were to add this common sequence as a formation in the present system we would have the problem of how widely or narrowly to define it. Eg cross right/left, cast off 1 or 2, half figure of 8 up/down, M down/W up etc. In the future formation systems those could be part of a tree so searching for the most generic version should find all instances. But thats not possible in the present system. So if we did add your request now, I think it would only make sense to add the most generic (all variants) version - but then we would not have the detail to import to the future formation system. Still, as Eric says, we can already make a lot of very useful searches with the system we have. Cheers, Murrough. PS Linda Mae, once we get a new formation system, it might be useful to be able to cross reference with the formations per dance information that you must have in some form to produce your animations.
Thanks everyone, for your suggestions. Eric and Murrough (and Anselm) I really do appreciate all the work you do (you've made my life so much easier), which is why I go to the SCDDB so often to search for dances that include things that I want to teach. I started my own database years ago, but it is entirely lame compared to yours. I was mostly trying to find out if the figure had a name that I don't know about. There are lots of named figures in the database that I don't recognize. Thanks Holly, I eventually did make up my own dance, but it's so simple that I imagine it already exists. Here it is though... Penultimate Class Dance - 32J3/4L Bars 1-8 1st couple Cross RH, Cast, dance a 1/2 Figure of 8 9-16 All three couples join hands, Advance and Retire and dance Back to Back with partners 17-24 1st couple pass right shoulder with the person on the right for Figures of Eight on the sides (or Reels of Three - depending on who shows up for class) 25-32 2nd and 1st couples dance Rights and Lefts (OR All dance Tom Halpenny's figure, the Arandel (which is also not in the database)) Cheersy!
You have 24 bars of a 2 couple dance right there. Just add 8 bars of your own i.e. 17 - 24. 2s and 1s rha and lha. Or circle. Or, if you want to challenge them a bit, 2s followed by 1s lead down for 3, 1s followed by 2s lead up for 3, 1s cast to second place as 2s curl into top place - all set up for r&ls. (Sorry. Too much coffee) Holly
I agree that the movement does not need a 'name', but it would be nice
to have such combined movements referenced in the new formations
index!
I know it is a mouthful, but 'Cross, Cast, Half Figure of Eight' seems okay to me.
Regards,
Iain Boyd
Postal Address -
P O Box 11-404
Manners Street
Wellington 6142
New Zealand
On Thursday, 6 June 2019, 4:33:12 am NZST, George Watt
<xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
It is what it says, why does it need a name? Call it a thingamejigger
if you think that will help.
George T Watt
Sent from Samsung tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: Bruce Herbold <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Date: 05/06/2019 16:02 (GMT+00:00)
To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Cross Cast Half Eight
In historical English cd it is called “the figure”. No help here I’m
afraid
Bruce Herbold
Oakland
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 22:05:42 +0100, Iain Boyd <strathspey+dmarc-iain_boyd_scd=xxxxx.xx.xx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > I agree that the movement does not need a 'name', but it would be nice > to have such combined movements referenced in the new formations index! > > I know it is a mouthful, but 'Cross, Cast, Half Figure of Eight' seems > okay to me. But that's (at least) four different figures Iain. The half figure of eight can be both up, both down, man up & lady down, or lady up and man down. And then, if this isn't bars 1-8 of the dance, the casts might also be up/down or one of each. Malcolm. -- Malcolm Austen <xxxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx.xx>
Not sure why this combination of figures deserves a name more than other common combinations like 'cross, cast, turn', 'turn, cast, turn', or 'set, cast, turn." I do agree it would be nice to be able to search by certain sequences of formations, but that does seem like a huge coding project, and based on my understanding anyway, the data doesn't currently support it. The formation search looks for information in the formation fields (not the cribs), and most dances don't have "minor" movements like casts and turns entered. / Lara Minneapolis, MN USA ***************************** Lara Friedman~Shedlov xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx *****************************
Dear Lara,
Re - "and most dances don't have "minor" movements like casts and turns entered."
This is more because of the extra effort required, but mainly because
these minor movements are not catered for in the current Formations
'index' - they were not considered important when DanceData was first
developed.
Regards,
Iain
Postal Address -
P O Box 11-404
Manners Street
Wellington 6142
New Zealand
On Friday, 7 June 2019, 7:38:15 am NZST, Lara Friedman-Shedlov
<xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
Not sure why this combination of figures deserves a name more than other
common combinations like 'cross, cast, turn', 'turn, cast, turn', or 'set,
cast, turn."
I do agree it would be nice to be able to search by certain sequences of
formations, but that does seem like a huge coding project, and based on my
understanding anyway, the data doesn't currently support it. The formation
search looks for information in the formation fields (not the cribs), and
most dances don't have "minor" movements like casts and turns entered.
/ Lara
Minneapolis, MN USA
*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
*****************************
Dear Iain, And apart from such minor movements not being recorded (yet), there is another problem. Even when formations are linked to dances, the current convention just lists them once even if they occur multiple times. It is possible to indicate the bar where a formation first occurs (though this is not done consistently). But the more minor the figure, the more likely there are to be many of them and then a sequence might still not work because it would not be apparent that the second instance of one minor figure came immediately before the third instance of another. Adding such detail to enough dances for it to be useful would be a major effort. Still I hope the new formation system would permit such things if future editors have the time and inclination to enter the data. Cheers, Murrough.