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Arthur's Seat - last two bars
Lydia Hedge
May 21, 2019, 8:48 p.m. (Message 70706)
Greetings, "Arthur's Seat" is from the "18th C Book" (My copy is a revised edition - 1963 or 1967) http://my.strathspey.org/dd/dance/245/ In the original wording, the 1s "turn by the right to own sides" on the last two bars. This is supported by the notes for the 2nd time thru, which say "cross to own sides, to the bottom of the set". On SCDDB, the cribs both indicate that this is a petronella turn (as is often the case in hello-goodbye). The videos (only one on SCDDB, a 2nd one is available on the SCD Dictionary) differ on the last two bars. One shows a petronella turn; the other shows a RH turn. Any recommendations on how to teach those last two bars? Thank you. Lydia Hedge Nova Scotia, Canada
Petronella. "Turn by the right" isn't the same as "turn by right hands." On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 9:48 AM Lydia Hedge <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote: > Greetings, > > "Arthur's Seat" is from the "18th C Book" (My copy is a revised edition - > 1963 or > 1967) > > http://my.strathspey.org/dd/dance/245/ > > In the original wording, the 1s "turn by the right to own sides" on the > last two bars. > This is supported by the notes for the 2nd time thru, which say "cross to > own sides, > to the bottom of the set". > > On SCDDB, the cribs both indicate that this is a petronella turn (as is > often the case > in hello-goodbye). > > The videos (only one on SCDDB, a 2nd one is available on the SCD > Dictionary) > differ on the last two bars. One shows a petronella turn; the other shows > a RH turn. > > Any recommendations on how to teach those last two bars? > > Thank you. > > Lydia Hedge > Nova Scotia, Canada > -- Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
That is the way we dance it around here in San Francisco, but I find that last note about 'cross to their own sides" very suggestive. We do not argue if 'cross to own sides' involves giving hands or not (although one would in ECD), but we have developed much more precise language about our dance form so that now interpret 'turn by the right' as different from 'turn with right hand.' I very much suspect that Mr MacConachie did not use our modern strict terminology. Similarly, when he says 'cross to own sides' I think he did not feel a need to specify which hand to give, any more than he felt he needed to say to give hands while crossing. By extrapolation, I think his turn byt the right implied at the time, a giving of hands --- it also flows into the start of the second time through in the kind of free-wheeling style I associate with many of his dances. Opinions, I got a million of 'em, Bruce Herbold Oakland CA
Jack McConachie was my first Highland Dance teacher in the 1950s and I have a copy of Jack's original publication, signed by him in October 1960.Here is his actual wording for the last 8 bars:-25-30 First couple "set to Corners-set to partner" (Diagram 3) (see notes below), finishing with the lady facing up, and the man facing down (6 steps).31-32 First couple turn each other with right hands to own side, in 2nd place.The notes for 25-30 give a very detailed explanation of 6 bars of "set to corners and partner" as normally danced today and "diagram 3" shows the 1st couple facing 1st corners and moving to face each other in 2nd place opposite sides. He clearly states "Turn by RH" for bars 31-32.The crib notes on SCDDB do NOT match the instructions published in 1960. Whether these have been based on changes made by Jack in later revisions of his book, or have crept in by the more common way "set to corners and partner" is danced today, I do not know.Cheers,ArthurAustin, TX On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 11:59:26 AM CDT, Steve Wyrick <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: Petronella. "Turn by the right" isn't the same as "turn by right hands." On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 9:48 AM Lydia Hedge <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote: > Greetings, > > "Arthur's Seat" is from the "18th C Book" (My copy is a revised edition - > 1963 or > 1967) > > http://my.strathspey.org/dd/dance/245/ > > In the original wording, the 1s "turn by the right to own sides" on the > last two bars. > This is supported by the notes for the 2nd time thru, which say "cross to > own sides, > to the bottom of the set". > > On SCDDB, the cribs both indicate that this is a petronella turn (as is > often the case > in hello-goodbye). > > The videos (only one on SCDDB, a 2nd one is available on the SCD > Dictionary) > differ on the last two bars. One shows a petronella turn; the other shows > a RH turn. > > Any recommendations on how to teach those last two bars? > > Thank you. > > Lydia Hedge > Nova Scotia, Canada > -- Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
Hello, I have a printed copy of the Jack McConachie Book of Dances, which has the publication dates listed in some detail - i.e. First Edition 1960,Second Edition (Revised, Update and Enlarged) 1962, plus others, the last one being "Reprinted 1990". The last 2 bars of Arthur's Seat say "First couple turn by the right to own side, in second place." Brian Charlton
This is sometimes an issue of confusion, even in older RSCDS numbered books. We "moderns" more or less associate "turn" with taking hands. But that was not the case a while back with the expression "turn by the right." Notice, Lydia, that what you have quoted does not state right HAND(s). Our modern lingo for this is more typically "pull(ing) right shoulder(s) back," in cues often just "RS back." And so my opinion is that "turn by the right to own sides" does NOT mean to take hands at all but rather to, as you mention as an option, perform something akin to a petronella. As you report, this viewpoint is supported by what is found on the SCDDB. And so I would say that the one outlier video is not correct. Robb Quint Thousand Oaks, CA, USA In a message dated 5/21/2019 9:48:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xx writes: Greetings, "Arthur's Seat" is from the "18th C Book" (My copy is a revised edition - 1963 or 1967) http://my.strathspey.org/dd/dance/245/ In the original wording, the 1s "turn by the right to own sides" on the last two bars. This is supported by the notes for the 2nd time thru, which say "cross to own sides, to the bottom of the set". On SCDDB, the cribs both indicate that this is a petronella turn (as is often the case in hello-goodbye). The videos (only one on SCDDB, a 2nd one is available on the SCD Dictionary) differ on the last two bars. One shows a petronella turn; the other shows a RH turn. Any recommendations on how to teach those last two bars? Thank you. Lydia HedgeNova Scotia, Canada
