Thread
Index
3 X quicktime dances and music
Volleyballjerry
Feb. 12, 2005, 12:47 a.m. (Message 40613)
Both Malcomb Brown and Lydia Hedge have shown us that there are plenty of 3 X quicktime dances extant. So why then is there such an enormous disconnect between between their existence and our use of them and there being music available for them??? I have been at it with SCD for over a quarter century, and while 3 X strathspeys have always seemed relatively commonplace to me, I would not have been able to name a single 3 X quicktime dance and MAY possibly have never even done one! And I have no thus-recorded music whatsoever (not the world's largest music collection by far, but still a good mixture of this and that). That's why Lara's "Rice and Lefse" seemed so foreign to me in terms of its being a 3 X quicktime dance in a 3-couple set. Is there some reason that this mode has traditionally remained so obscure and unfavored, even though the dances seem to be "out there"? Everyone can probably recall the last time that you danced a 3 X strathspey at a dance or ball. Can you recall the last time, if ever, that you've done likewise with a 3 X jig or reel? Robb Quint Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
Greetings! Robb Quint asks: >Everyone can probably recall the last time that you danced a >3 X strathspey at a dance or ball. Can you recall the last time, >if ever, that you've done likewise with a 3 X jig or reel? The Old Way of Killiecrankie (3 x 48 Reel RSCDS Leaflet Book No 24) gets regular outings in programmes around here - the local connection obviously helps. The diagram in the Leaflet book is, regrettably, incorrect in showing a four couple set and this has obviously fooled DanceData but I find it a pleasant change from the 8 x 32 format. Jim Healy Perth, Scotland
Jim Healy wrote....... > The diagram in the Leaflet book is, regrettably, incorrect in showing a four couple set and this has obviously fooled DanceData...... I am glad to say that my Sutton Coldfield Index shows it correctly as 3x48R. As a matter of interest I have raked through all the dance programmes that I and the Lothian Scottish Dance Band have played for to get the following list of all the 3x Reels and Jigs we have been asked to play over a period of about thirty years that I have on file. Dance Title Bars Played AUCKLAND AIRS 3 32R 1 BONNY DUNOON 3 32J 1 BREAKDOWN, The 3 32R 2 CHIPPY's RANT 3 32J 1 CHRYSANTHEMUM 3 32R 3 DANCING MASTER, The 3 32J 133 EILEAN DONAN CASTLE 3 48J 2 GEORGE SQUARE OF EDINBURGH 3 32R 1 HEY JOHNNIE COPE 3 32R 1 JOE FOSTER'S JIG 3 32J 3 MACPHERSON'S JIG 3 32J 22 MICMAC ROTARY, The 3 32R 1 Misses CRAMB OF LINLITHGOW 3 32J 1 MY HEATHER HILLS 3 48J 2 OLD WAY OF KILLICRANKIE 3 48R 8 RODGER'S FIVE-O REEL 3 64R 1 SOUND OF HARRIS, The 3 48H 4 TAPPIE TOORIE 3 32R 1 TWO OF THE BEST 3 32J 1 Thought it might be of interest to some of the folks on Strathspey George Meikle
On 12/02/2005 09:36, George Meikle wrote: > AUCKLAND AIRS 3 32R 1 Oh dear. Is this the one by Wes Clindinning which I ALSO have down as a 4-couple set! > BREAKDOWN, The 3 32R 2 John Mitchell's? (also in DD as 4C set) > CHIPPY's RANT 3 32J 1 Ann Dix's (also in DD ...) > CHRYSANTHEMUM 3 32R 3 In DD as a 4-couple square set!!! > DANCING MASTER, The 3 32J 133 See immediately above. > MICMAC ROTARY, The 3 32R 1 See immediately above. > Misses CRAMB OF LINLITHGOW 3 32J 1 (I've corrected this one now) > TAPPIE TOORIE 3 32R 1 Roy Goldring's (in DD as 4C set) or John Drewry's (in DD as 4C square set)? > TWO OF THE BEST 3 32J 1 In DD as 4C square set > > Thought it might be of interest to some of the folks on Strathspey Well. It's certainly got me worked up! On the other hand, I do know that George has in the Sutton Coldfield index about 1000 dances more than I have. Perhaps these are part of the explanation for that? Alan
On 12/02/2005 00:51, Jim Healy wrote: > Greetings! > > Robb Quint asks: > >> Everyone can probably recall the last time that you danced a >> 3 X strathspey at a dance or ball. Can you recall the last time, >> if ever, that you've done likewise with a 3 X jig or reel? Cambusnethan at the Berne St. Andrews Ball last November. (Shameless plug, having constructed said program oneself)) > The Old Way of Killiecrankie (3 x 48 Reel RSCDS Leaflet Book No 24) gets > regular outings in programmes around here - the local connection > obviously helps. The diagram in the Leaflet book is, regrettably, > incorrect in showing a four couple set and this has obviously fooled > DanceData but I find it a pleasant change from the 8 x 32 format. Easily fooled at the moment it appears! Alan (hanging head in anticipation of next axe-stroke)
Greetings! Alan Paterson refers to a number of anomalies in DanceData that have been noted in the course of this thread and signs off: >Alan (hanging head in anticipation of next axe-stroke) No need for that Alan. If we, the ever grateful users of DanceData, don't get around to telling you the anomalies we find when we find them then we can hardly complain when they do come out of the woodwork. I am reminded of the Secretary who reproached me in my youth when I dictated a letter regretting a typing error. Down went the steno pad and pencil - "there are NO typing errors, there are only proof reading errors". Same with DanceData: it may be your database but it is everyone's data and our responsibility to help you make it better. Jim Healy Perth, Scotland
We enjoyed The Belfast Hornpipe not too long ago - lots of half-turn- and-a-twirls. The deviser is Wes Clindinning and I believe we danced it to the RSCDS recording for The Lanes of Au. I'm afraid the most vivid memory in this area of the dance The Lanes of Au is of a disastrous demo some years back at a North Georgia State Park where several of us had mental malfunctions at the same time and our beloved leader fell off the platform, a short while after his hip- replacement surgery. The dance forever after was known here as The Lanes of Ow! And how about Betty Lee Barnes' Flying Cloud? That's a good one. I assume the Muriel Johnstone track I glimpsed a reference to in this thread is The Ruby Hornpipe on Dancing Fingers 5? Definitely a 3x32. Becky Becky Sager Marietta GA USA -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx wrote: Both Malcomb Brown and Lydia Hedge have shown us that there are plenty of 3 X quicktime dances extant. So why then is there such an enormous disconnect between between their existence and our use of them and there being music available for them??? I have been at it with SCD for over a quarter century, and while 3 X strathspeys have always seemed relatively commonplace to me, I would not have been able to name a single 3 X quicktime dance and MAY possibly have never even done one! And I have no thus-recorded music whatsoever (not the world's largest music collection by far, but still a good mixture of this and that). That's why Lara's "Rice and Lefse" seemed so foreign to me in terms of its being a 3 X quicktime dance in a 3-couple set. Is there some reason that this mode has traditionally remained so obscure and unfavored, even though the dances seem to be "out there"? Everyone can probably recall the last time that you danced a 3 X strathspey at a dance or ball. Can you recall the last time, if ever, that you've done likewise with a 3 X jig or reel? Robb Quint Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
Some at least of George's list are 96-bar dances, I'm familiar with Chrysanthemum (4 couples, square set) and Micmac Rotary (8 couples -though, Alan, Dance Data says 4 - in 2 square sets) so are outside the current discussion. Shouldn't Micmac Rotary be 2x48? Becky Becky Sager Marietta GA USA -- "George Meikle" <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: Jim Healy wrote....... > The diagram in the Leaflet book is, regrettably, incorrect in showing a four couple set and this has obviously fooled DanceData...... I am glad to say that my Sutton Coldfield Index shows it correctly as 3x48R. As a matter of interest I have raked through all the dance programmes that I and the Lothian Scottish Dance Band have played for to get the following list of all the 3x Reels and Jigs we have been asked to play over a period of about thirty years that I have on file. Dance Title Bars Played AUCKLAND AIRS 3 32R 1 BONNY DUNOON 3 32J 1 BREAKDOWN, The 3 32R 2 CHIPPY's RANT 3 32J 1 CHRYSANTHEMUM 3 32R 3 DANCING MASTER, The 3 32J 133 EILEAN DONAN CASTLE 3 48J 2 GEORGE SQUARE OF EDINBURGH 3 32R 1 HEY JOHNNIE COPE 3 32R 1 JOE FOSTER'S JIG 3 32J 3 MACPHERSON'S JIG 3 32J 22 MICMAC ROTARY, The 3 32R 1 Misses CRAMB OF LINLITHGOW 3 32J 1 MY HEATHER HILLS 3 48J 2 OLD WAY OF KILLICRANKIE 3 48R 8 RODGER'S FIVE-O REEL 3 64R 1 SOUND OF HARRIS, The 3 48H 4 TAPPIE TOORIE 3 32R 1 TWO OF THE BEST 3 32J 1 Thought it might be of interest to some of the folks on Strathspey George Meikle
Usually I am reluctant to publish dances I have written. That is because I
don't find them innovative enough to merit publication - they are usually
written for specific (teaching) purposes and therefore lack originality. This
one, however, was written for the wedding of Marianne (daughter of Wilma
Menzies-Sommer, some of you will know her) and Thorsten in Dortmund-Barop in
September 2003. It is, in fact, a 3 x 32 Jig (mainly because we were one couple
short) and was devised with the enjoyment of the audience in mind. Anyway, here
goes:
BAROP WEDDING 3 x 32 Jig for 3 couples in a 3 couple set
1-8 1 c turn RH; cast into 2nd place, set advancing passing each other
(shoulder ad
lib.) to finish back to back in the centre, facing own side of
the dance.
9-16 All dance Double Triangles. On the last 2 bars, 2 and 3 c set
advancing, 1 c set
turning around each other RSh, finishing ready for
17-24 2, 1, 3 c dance an Allemande, finishing in the order 312
25-32 1and 2 c dance Right and Left.
Quite an energetic dance, but our dancers as well as the audience liked it.
We used a recording of MacPherson's Jig - I didn't have much of a choice, for
reasons discussed earlier.
Greetings from Essen, Germany,
Eva Dreyer
Here in the Twin Cities, we have frequently enjoyed MacPherson's Jig, Belfast Hornpipe, and The Breakdown. Another favorite is a locally devised dance called Rush Hour Reel, which is a 3x48R. Instructions for the latter are available on our branch web site at: http://www.rscds-twincities.org/dances/rushhour.html . This dance will be on our 30th anniversary ball program coming up a week from today. It's not too late to decide to come and join us!! See http://www.rscds-twincities.org/annualball.html Lara Friedman-Shedlov Minneapolis, Minnesota USA ******************************** Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx warm-blooded" ********************************
George Meikle's list rather confirms my point. The majority of these has been requested only once, perhaps twice, over a thirty-year period! The one glaring exception to that on the list is The Dancing Master, with 133 requests, but that's a 96-bar jig in a square set, once through, not a 3 X dance at all. There seems to be no question that this is an underemployed configuration, particularly when compared with 3 X strathspeys. Yet many have expressed at least a passing exposure to this mode, which I seem to have almost entirely (if not 100%) managed to avoid (certainly not intentionally!) in a quarter century of dancing in Southern California. I'll have to ask other dancers and teachers in our San Gabriel Valley Branch whether they can recall our having done any of these, which I perhaps could have forgotten. But none of the many titles mentioned, not even MacPherson's Jig with 22 requests on George's list and also mentioned by others, conjures up any personal recollection. In any case, maybe it's time for us locally (and internationally?) to blow the dust off some of these many 3 X quicktime extant dances. Perhaps you'll ultimately turn out to be the catalyst for a movement, Lara! Robb Quint Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
Lydia Hedge kindly sent me the original directions for Micmac Rotary - the interchange figure which we (some of us, including Lydia)are familiar with is not in The Brodie Book. The published version IS for 4 couples and 3x32 music would work. The version I assumed was original (which is actually 2x96)is either one of Mr Drewry's second thoughts or a local variant? How is the dance done in other parts of the world? Becky Becky Sager Marietta GA USA -- "Becky Sager" <xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx> wrote: Some at least of George's list are 96-bar dances, I'm familiar with Chrysanthemum (4 couples, square set) and Micmac Rotary (8 couples -though, Alan, Dance Data says 4 - in 2 square sets) so are outside the current discussion. Shouldn't Micmac Rotary be 2x48? Becky Becky Sager Marietta GA USA -- "George Meikle" <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: Jim Healy wrote....... > The diagram in the Leaflet book is, regrettably, incorrect in showing a four couple set and this has obviously fooled DanceData...... I am glad to say that my Sutton Coldfield Index shows it correctly as 3x48R. As a matter of interest I have raked through all the dance programmes that I and the Lothian Scottish Dance Band have played for to get the following list of all the 3x Reels and Jigs we have been asked to play over a period of about thirty years that I have on file. Dance Title Bars Played AUCKLAND AIRS 3 32R 1 BONNY DUNOON 3 32J 1 BREAKDOWN, The 3 32R 2 CHIPPY's RANT 3 32J 1 CHRYSANTHEMUM 3 32R 3 DANCING MASTER, The 3 32J 133 EILEAN DONAN CASTLE 3 48J 2 GEORGE SQUARE OF EDINBURGH 3 32R 1 HEY JOHNNIE COPE 3 32R 1 JOE FOSTER'S JIG 3 32J 3 MACPHERSON'S JIG 3 32J 22 MICMAC ROTARY, The 3 32R 1 Misses CRAMB OF LINLITHGOW 3 32J 1 MY HEATHER HILLS 3 48J 2 OLD WAY OF KILLICRANKIE 3 48R 8 RODGER'S FIVE-O REEL 3 64R 1 SOUND OF HARRIS, The 3 48H 4 TAPPIE TOORIE 3 32R 1 TWO OF THE BEST 3 32J 1 Thought it might be of interest to some of the folks on Strathspey George Meikle
The leaflet which I have, and the Brodie Book, both indicate that the dance consists of three 32 bar figures. Malcolm L Brown York > -----Original Message----- > From: strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx > [mailto:strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx] On Behalf Of > Becky Sager > Sent: 12 February 2005 17:42 > To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: RE: 3 X quicktime dances and music > > > Lydia Hedge kindly sent me the original directions for Micmac Rotary - the interchange figure > which we (some of us, including Lydia)are familiar with is not in The Brodie Book. The > published version IS for 4 couples and 3x32 music would work. The version I assumed was > original (which is actually 2x96)is either one of Mr Drewry's second thoughts or a local > variant? How is the dance done in other parts of the world? > > Becky > > Becky Sager > Marietta GA USA > > -- "Becky Sager" <xxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx> wrote: > > Some at least of George's list are 96-bar dances, I'm familiar with Chrysanthemum (4 > couples, square set) and Micmac Rotary (8 couples -though, Alan, Dance Data says 4 - in 2 > square sets) so are outside the current discussion. Shouldn't Micmac Rotary be 2x48?
Why has nobody yet mentioned John Drewry's "Crossing the Line" (Bankhead Book 6 no. 5)? It is a charming 3C dance with the "cyclical" progression we are discussing, but all dancers end on the opposite side. So on the next time through the "top" changes ends, and you dance it 6 times through to get back to places. Eric -- Eric T. Ferguson, van Reenenweg 3, 3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands tel: (+31)(0) 30-2673638 mobile: (+31)(0) 6 4437 8997 e-mail: x.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx
Robb Quint wrote: "The Dancing Master, with 133 requests, but that's a 96-bar jig in a square set, once through, not a 3 X dance at all." True, but to revert to a previous point, if our CD collections don't include any 3x32 jig recordings, the need could be met by The Dancing Master. I've just checked my recordings of The Dancing Master (Music Makars, Gordon Shand), and you wouldn't know it wasn't a 3x32 jig from just listening to the recording. Chris (New York)
Robb, Having probably played The Dancing Master more times than most dancers have danced it, I am perfectly well aware that it is a 3x32J in a 4 couple square set. The title for the thread was "3x quicktime dances and MUSIC". As a musician I replied to the subject matter on the grounds of the music and not the dances. Why is it that the musician is always wrong even when he/she tries to do it right??? George Meikle ------- Robb Quint wrote: >"The Dancing Master, with 133 requests, but that's a 96-bar jig > in a square set, once through, not a 3 X dance at all."
Musicians are the real professionals of all activities that depend on music. Where would we be as dancers if musicians had not composed, created and recorded the music we regularly use, and made themselves available for classes and as live musicians for dance events whenever possible? I have attended a winter school where David Cunningham played for classes without regard for remuneration. I walked by George Meikle's car every day at summer school last summer and knew he was playing regularly although I did not have the privilege of meeting him personally. Our prelim class musician, Dr. Ken Martlew, with infinite patience, was a continual source of knowledge and inspiration and perfect musicianship. Living in a part of the world that has only a few SCD musicians, I cherish them even more. The musicians that provide our music have my undying admiration and respect. This note is not a criticism of comments in this thread. It is simply my opportunity to recognize and thank our musicians. Claude Hutton Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
George Meikle has addressed me specifically and scolded somewhat... "Having probably played The Dancing Master more times than most dancers have danced it, I am perfectly well aware that it is a 3x32J in a 4 couple square set. The title for the thread was "3x quicktime dances and MUSIC". As a musician I replied to the subject matter on the grounds of the music and not the dances. Why is it that the musician is always wrong even when he/she tries to do it right???" ...but I'm not certain of the point being made. Of course 3 X 32 adds up to 96, so 3 X 32 music played would work for this dance (and admittedly I am certainly no expert on the music), but this is not a "3 X 32 jig," which implies that each of three couple gets one shot at the same thing, but a 96-bar jig once through. And I believe that the entire thread of 3 X dances has concerned those dances that truly run three times through identically, once for each of three couples, regardless of what sequence of tunes may be played for them, and not dances such as The Dancing Master and many other such that run once through, regardless of their number of total bars. (And 'twas not only I; Becky Sager had made exactly the same point: "Some at least of George's list are 96-bar dances.") Robb Quint Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
I am pleased to see that Jim Healy at least agrees with me concerning the availability of music as 3x recordings. I thought one of the original points of the thread was concerning the lack of 3x recordings - but I must have been wrong! I am well aware that MacPherson's Jig is a 4 couple set but the MUSIC RECORDING is a useful 3x32J which surely could be used for any other 3x32J. As I said in my last email - the musician will always be wrong! George Meikle
G'Day, Sorry, George, but MacPherson's Jig is a 3 couple triangular set dance!! One reason dances become popular is that the teacher using recorded music can find a recording with the same name as a dance - it makes it a lot easier to find in the class situation. This means that such recordings as Bonnie Anne don't register as being played as a 3x32 jig. For example in my spreadsheet music listing, I have it as 1x96!! Brian Charlton, Sydney, Australia
Greetings! Can I just beg to differ with Robb's assertion that "The Dancing Master" is a 1 x 96 bar dance. I have just come in from a rehearsal of the Dundee Branch team where we spent a considerable amount of the evening analysing this dance with the dancers and musician. It _is_ a 96 bar dance but the structure is a 32 bar figure with 1st and 3rd couple leading, that figure is repeated with 2nd and 4th couple leading. This figure and repetition are followed by a separate 32 bar figure. The music, as defined by John D, consists of two tunes. These are played as 32 bars of "The Dancingmaster", these are repeated and are then followed by 32 bars of "A Visit to Ireland". George is surely therefore correct that this is indistinguishable from the music for a specifically 3 x 32 dance. If George had just been listing anything he and the band had played that added up to 96 bars, I would have expected "Nottingham Lace" to feature prominently but that is structured as 4 x 24 'chunks' :) (or, occasionally, 2 x 48) and is therefore missing from his list altogether. Jim Healy Perth, Scotland