Thread
Index
The Wild Geese/Balance in Line
Jana Hopper
Oct. 24, 2000, 4:16 p.m. (Message 23210)
Although I do not have access to the original just now, the first figure in The Wild Geese is a "balance in line" down the middle of the dance. It is not written that way in what I have available but is written as "set in a line down the dance, all hands joined" (or some variation of those words) but with no reference to balance in line. The specific reference in the RSCDS manual states that "balance in line can be danced on the sidelines, across the dance, or diagonally" but does not say anything about down the middle of the dance. I think this figure should also be a "balance in line" but I am not of a mind to challenge the RSCDS on this point....yet. Jana Blue (Prelim Certificate Candidate)
Jana,
Yes, If the Society had not edited "balance" out of some
dances by 1968, "Wild Geece [Book XXIV-3]" probably would
have the term "balance" used in describing parts of bars 1-4
(rpt 9-12).
Typical of the Society's system of referencing, Book XXIV,
containing something "made available" by Jenny MacLachlan is
not very helpful. When contents reference says that MacL
provided the "Reels and Jigs", does this mean the dances,
the scores? If so who provided the strathspeys? Why is the
initial letter in reels and jigs in upper case?
All the dances, except "Wild Geese" have music which comes
from somewhere else. Most old Scottish dances were known by
their tune names. Unfortunately as "Wild Geese" comes from
that famous sourse "Old Ms", where do we find Mr/Ms Ms?
Given all these omissions, is it safe to assume that "Wild
Geese" is both the name of a dance and a tune?
All of the scores have been cited except "Vale of Leven" for
"St Andrews's Day". The structure of the melody of this tune
indicates that it is from the reign of Victoria and not
before. If this is the case, probably was not by the famous
Trad, and probably had a composer.
As to the other citations, most seem to be publishers. Lowe,
Petrie, and Campbell have sometimes included dance notes,
but these would to dances named by their tunes, not those in
this book. As there are several R Mackintoshes, is this one
a musician, publisher, or former owner of the music store on
Queen's Ferry Rd, just off Princes St, across from St
George's?.
Only three dances have citations: 2. Balquidder Strathspey
(Rutherford), I Canna Buckle To (Ladie's New Pocket
Companion), and Adieu Mon Ami (New CD 1814). How did these
become strathspeys? Some New CD's have musical scores, if so
in this case, why did the Society not publish original tune.
I believe Rutherford always provided tunes, but I have never
seen any music that would unequivocally be called a
strathspey.
The song/poem, "Whistle ..." is set to a great tune. So why
did the Society not use it. Of course just as many dances
have adopted their tune names, so also have many tune names
been lost behind the work of famous poets such as Burns and
Ramsey (What is the tune to Auld Lang Syne? See Jean Redpath
to become even more confused when she explains that much of
Burns' work was written for tunes other than those by which
we know them.
I feel that MacL provided the dances, as the intro says
reels & jigs, while the strathspeys all have cited dance
notes.If "made available" means devised by MacL, and she is
a Society afficionado, than this sounds reasonable for all
the quick time dances except the two Circassian circles
[generic type not specific dance], as their notes have the
feeling of being copied directly out of the same uncited
source. With the exception of the Circassian circles, all of
the dance notes seem to be directly influenced by the
Society. This includes the unhistorical interpretation of
the allemande in "Adieu Mon Ami" as I have been unable to
find a historical eight bar allemande. Even "Miss Margaret
Gordon" looks like a 24 bar tune. I would guess that the
original arrangement would be ABA (instead of ABBA) with #A
in Gm and #B a tease suggesting a modulation to G. If one
treats the allemande as a two bar movement (instead of an 8
bar figure), the dance notes #A would involve all, and the
mood shift of the partial modulation of #B would be for the
actives who have already progressed (harmony/solo/unison).
This brings us back to "Wild Geese", one of my favorite
dances. It's strong point is the unique first 16 bars. It is
so good in fact, that if the dance has traditional roots,
bars 1-16 were probably only 1-8 with the non-RSCDS
"balance" and whatever figure. If MacL or the Society edited
it, kudos to them as their new figure, breaks no rules and
fits into a natural evolution from historical country
dancing. To bad no one else has used it yet.
-----
[didactic sermon]
Incidently, I advise every teacher to review Book 24, as it
has many dance gems. Too often to meet the demand for more
antisocial, choreographically & musically unsound dances, we
forget that, as wains & we'uns, we were weened on a body of
basic CD that were fun and included all figures to that
date. Anyone, given enough effort, can teach Rob Roy (one of
my favorites) to a class of raw beginners. However, all they
will come away with is a dance, and know nothing about
dancing that can be transfered to the Society's vast
repertoire as represented in its early books.
[thus endith ....]
*****
For me, Rutherford is a much more interesting. In 1984, I
gave a paper at the University of Surrey, on a problem
which I have yet to solve to my satisfaction. Publishers:
Thompson [III/1772], Johnson [V/1750], & Rutherford [I/1749]
all produced books of dances in London (implying that only
the tunes may have had a Scottich origin, not necessarily
the dances). Unless one is stretching the imagination, there
are no definite strathspeys in any of these books.
There is internal evidence that they all plegerized each
other or, more likely an earlier source. My interest is the
title pages. Each picture has the following similarities:
1. 4 cpl ecossaise formation (longways-Circassian circle)
2. quartet (English horn, violin, viola, cello)
4. parquet floor, 5 wall units
5. (1)&(4) adv 3, (2) ret 3R, (3) set 3RA
6. [1] ?, [4] adv or set, [2] set, [3] set {can't see feet}
#5&6 these could all be different aspects of setting.
Differences:
1. R & J same floor [rectangles], T [larger squares]
2. R & J three windows, two mirrors, T middle window closed.
3. Date costumes -> inverted order: T[1772] J[1750] R[1749]
4. R & J have a door and a spectator w sword (or stick if
a dancing master), T narrower picture door & spec omited.
5. R sword (or stick) obvious, J def sword, if not a scratch
on the matrix.
6. hashing-wall: T vertical, R horizontal & J vert&horiz
7. hashing-columns: T & R vertical, J horizontal
8. hashing-mirrors: T pix, R [plain] & J [ornate] vert
9. windows: T casement 6 panes, R 9, J grilled.
10. chandelers T & R = 0, T = 2
<<11. musicians T & R left handed, J right handed>>
<<12. instruments: T & R left handed, J right handed>>
strings: tuning pins reversed
english horn: high notes - right hand, low - left hand
<<13. T & R lettering have one font each, J has 3 fonts.
Conclusions:
1. If the only picture logically correct [right handed]is J
[1750], except for the dates and costumes, one might
consider it the source of the other two. NB: copying an
engraving matrix from a print requires a mirror to turn
a positive into a negative. If there is a sword/stick in
R & J, the copiest was clever enough to shift it onto
the left side. It would take a musician to know how to
reverse the instruments.
2. Since the most correct has the latest date, all three
must have been copied from an earlier work.
3. This is supported by Kidson [Old Eng C D, 1890 {copy
No. 70 of 80}].
Thompson
Rutherford
Johnson, John], based London, 1740-1760] probably bought
plates from Walsh [qv].
1750
c.1750 Caledonian C D
In 1755, his adverts included:
1200 fav C D in 6vs [200 fr ea vol]
Caledonian C D 2v, ....
> Chas&Sam > Sam&Ann + Peter > +Henry -Peter >
Henry & Ann > Henry [1800-1806] >
Button & Purday > Button & Whitaker
Rutherford: Kidson says c1770 / British Museum says 1749
Thompson, Peter earliest known publication 1755, but
begins with Dance #97,
Walsh, John [1711-1731] > Randall > Johnson.
Some dances same as Playford [qv]
Collection of Caledonian Country Dances, in 10 bks.
[prob 240 dances {10x24}]
Playford, John & sons [1651-1728]
I figure that the original plates were sold by Walsh >
Randall > Johnson. Johnson kept the original illustration
and most of the text but edited the publisher, volume, date,
price to suit the needs of his newer volumes. Thompson &
Rutherford, had to make their own plates (positive w/o
mirror). While Rutherford leaves out a lot of detail,
Thompson's is a more interesting picture because of added
detail and more variation in the depth of the engraving,
which allows for more shades of grey.
Goss
xxxxxxx.x.xxxx@xxx.xxx
It is interesting that an earlier edition of the Pilling book diagrams set in line for "Wild Geese". The 7th edition gives it as balance in line. Of course, Pilling is "NOT RSCDS!" :) Here I go again: there is a set in line variant inspired by "Wild Geese" in my dance "Lands of Kilgour." see http://www.geocities.com/dancingduff/lands.html David
Sylvia, Thanks for the ID, tune, "Mrs McPherson of Cluny". The Joseph Lowe with whom I am familiar was a publisher in Edinburgh, fl. 1844, which fits my interpretation of the score and your dates. I have no reference to hand, but I think Lowe was a publisher and collector of music. I would appreciate it if you could give me a reference indicating he actually wrote this tune. The title suggests that it was one of those bread and butter tunes where were dedicated at random to earn patronage. I don't think Lowe was like o'Carolan, who recycled his tunes at the next house with a foxy check, just out of earshot from the last one. If I could collect all of his extant work, and properly date it, I would love to draw a map of Ireland based on his dedicatees. The Gows had much more class, in that most of their dedicatees were actual landlords and employers. It is ironic that we speak of Playford dances and tunes when he was a publisher of legal materials and court reports whose country dance books were the cheap DIY books of his day. It is known that he had a musical background in that he published materials on harmony, instrumentation, and technique, which was known to have at least partially his. These were much more upmarket than his country dances, where probably none of the music was his nor the dances. Well look what Vespucci did by putting his name on all those maps of his. God bless Vespucciland. Thanks again. Goss xxxxxxx.x.xxxx@xxx.xxx
Jana Blue wrote: > ..middle of the dance. I think this figure should also be a "balance in line" > but I am not of a mind to challenge the RSCDS on this point....yet. > Well, why on earth not ? Regards Iain Richardson --- Dr Iain E. G. Richardson School of Electronic and Electrical Engineering The Robert Gordon University, Schoolhill, Aberdeen, Scotland, AB10 1FR Telephone (0)(+44)1224 262403 Facsimile (0)(+44)1224 262444 Email x.x.xxxxxxxxxx@xxx.xx.xx http://www.eee.rgu.ac.uk/research/comms/videocoding.html
Subject: Re: The Wild Geese/Balance in Line > Jana Blue wrote: > > ..middle of the dance. I think this figure should also be a "balance in line" > > but I am not of a mind to challenge the RSCDS on this point....yet. > > > Iain Richardson wrote; >Well, why on earth not ? > well...I choose my battles and this is not one that is THAT important to me right now...but, one day when I am firmly rooted in the RSCDS (teacher's certificate in hand!) maybe I will arm myself (with firm "W"s, of course!) and go to battle. Glad to know there are a few that will be on my side!! Jana
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Seona NicGhilleghuirm wrote: > > > Jana Blue wrote re Wild Geese: > > > .. I think this figure should also be a "balance in > line" I'm all for balance in line as a neat, concise description. But let's say I'm teaching Wild Geese to a class (any class except advanced, who would have learned it years before). What would happen if I said, "Set advancing and then balance in line." Do you think that no one would use the set advancing as the balane and start the turn or cast with only one setting step? And then when I stopped them, would they then not argue, "Did you mean set twice? Why didn't you say so?" I rest my case. >From someone who vowed not to get into this harange. . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx.xxx)
I am not gettin into this discussion either, mostly because when people say balance in line, I know what that is, and when they say set twice, I know what that means as well, especiall if I have a nice helpful partner. - as I'm sure all who have danced SCD over a period of years do. I have been thinking "OH DEAR!" - Wild Geese is not a balance in line, as you set approaching and then set in a line. As far as I can remember - I HAVE NOT RESEARCHED - balance in line comes after travelling with a travelling step to somewhere, and then travelling again to somewhere else - am I correct, or am I just opening my mouth and letting my belly rumble as pr usual? It is also done only in reel time, as balancing in line done in Strathspey time, will endanger your partners feet unneccesarily - i.e. if you are side by side, but facing each others place, and you start with right foot, you will end up bumping into each other. I think the discussion should be more about whether one should simplify explanations so much in individual places, that when these dancer get to other places where they have been taught other simplifications, he or she cannot speak the common language. I dance with the RSCDS - and I find it is much easier to just use the terms invented and taught by RSCDS - they are written in books and diagrams, and can be read and understood anywhere.
--- "Priscilla M. Burrage" <xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx.xxx> wrote: > But let's say I'm teaching Wild Geese to a class > (any class except > advanced, who would have learned it years before). > What would happen if . . . As far as RSCDS-version SCD goes, isn't the point that the balance in line takes place after people ARE in line with hands joined? I have been in classes where some dances will go out of their way to misunderstand instructions no matter how they are written! :) David
--- Pia Walker <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xx> wrote: > I have been thinking "OH DEAR!" - Wild Geese is not > a balance in line, as > you set approaching and then set in a line. As far > as I can remember - I > HAVE NOT RESEARCHED - balance in line comes after > travelling with a > travelling step to somewhere, and then travelling > again to somewhere else - I think sometimes things are allowed to be too rigid. My understanding is that the RSCDS researches what was historically done, then constructs the theory of how or why. So, if the only historically SURVIVING balances-in-line are in reels, then comes the dogma that balance-in-line can only be in reel time following traveling steps. Isn't this slightly silly? If you can balance-in-line in a reel, you can balance-in-line in a jig. I consider the formation the part done once hands are joined in a line and you set with pas de basque. Are we making the formation include the lead in and out? David