Thread Index

The RSCDS dance publication process (was: Tunes for "Hornpipes Suitable for Catch the Wind" on the "More Memories.....)

Previous Thread Next Thread Unindented

  • ...

    Anselm Lingnau July 30, 2008, 12:35 p.m. (Message 53253)

    Katharine Hoskyn wrote:
    
    > I guess this raises the question in a situation like this - who is
    > responsible for contacting the deviser - the Branch or Headquarters?  I
    > think that in this situation Headquarters could have a reasonable
    > expectation that the Branch had cleared the submission with the deviser.
    
    At the end of the day this is probably a question of workflow. In my opinion 
    there is a difference between »clearing a submission« (as in, »is it OK for 
    us to publish this dance at all?«, which apparently NZ Branch did) and 
    sorting out open questions before the publication goes to print (as in »there 
    doesn't seem to be a tune suggestion here, what do we use, let's perhaps ask 
    the author for some input«, which the music sub-committee ought to have done, 
    IMHO).
    
    Also, from my experience in publishing I would consider it a matter of course 
    to have an author sign off on a galley proof before the work is actually 
    published, just to make sure that everything is all right and no last-minute 
    errors have crept in. For example, presumably the dance descriptions in Book 
    45 have been »translated« into current standard terminology, and it would 
    make sense in my opinion to run that translation by the original deviser to 
    see whether everything still aligns with what they had in mind.
    
    And Campbell Tyler replied:
    
    > I could understand it if the RSCDS hierarchy were a paid group
    > but they are just people who have volunteered to help keep our favourite
    > past time on the road and they no doubt have other priorities and
    > pressures. They are also fallible, as Jim was at pains to point out to me
    > when I met him in Pitlochry in May.
    
    Right. So where is the problem with saying, »well, we *may* have dropped the 
    ball on this one« rather than »what we did was OK because we're free to do 
    what we like«?
    
    Anyway, the issue at hand is really not who did or didn't do what when 
    concerning Catch The Wind, but how to avoid this type of misunderstanding in 
    the future. My suggestion would be to institute a policy of close 
    collaboration with dance authors when their dances are prepared for 
    publication, such that
    
      - dance authors are made aware of decisions made on their behalf by
        Membership Services, such as which tune will be published with their
        dances, and their input sought and at least considered;
    
      - proofs of the relevant bits of a publication are made available to dance
        authors for comment for a set period of time;
    
      - it should be clarified that, in the case of »calls for dances« to branches
        etc., branches are responsible for making sure that dance authors agree
        that their dances may be published if they are selected (this is
        Katharine's »clearing« above), but that Membership Services is responsible
        for sorting out any open questions that arise during the publication
        process.
    
    Also, the dance submission process should be streamlined to avoid ambiguity. 
    For example, there could be a form to be submitted with a dance with an item 
    like
    
          SUGGESTED TUNE (tick and complete as appropriate)
    
          ( )  __________________________________ (must not occur elsewhere in
                                                   RSCDS publications)
          ( )  No preference; please pick one that is nice for this dance
    
    This would relieve Membership Services from having to decide whether the 
    absence of a music suggestion is because the author is tone-deaf, because the 
    author doesn't care, or because the author's preference has, for some reason, 
    become lost in space or time. The form would also ask for a telephone number 
    and an e-mail address by which the author could be contacted (even authors 
    who do not have their own e-mail are sure to know at least one person who 
    could volunteer to act as a proxy).
    
    When planning the time frame for a publication, Membership Services would have 
    to take a »comment period« into account. Given e-mail, a week or two should 
    be ample, and the schedule could be communicated to dance authors in advance 
    so they could arrange for somebody to be available in their place in case 
    they are on their big eight-week safari during that time.
    
    Is this unrealistic? It might add a certain amount of paperwork but would, I 
    think, send the signal that submitting a dance to the Society is not like 
    throwing it into a worm-hole from which it may or may not re-emerge, in the 
    shape of a sperm whale and a flower pot, in a completely different quadrant 
    of the galaxy. Campbell is correct in pointing out that the folks in 
    Membership Services are »just people who have volunteered to help keep our 
    favourite past time on the road«, but the same surely applies to the people 
    who make up new dances (among others). They're not getting paid, either, and 
    so their time and effort should be accorded the same level of respect. The 
    National Library of Modern Art isn't entitled to hang its Jackson Pollock 
    paintings upside down as a matter of convenience because its curators are too 
    overworked to figure out the right way up; anything of the sort would be 
    regarded as a mistake.
    
    At the end of the day this is a simple application of the Golden Rule -- if 
    Membership Services want their work to be valued and respected by the SCD 
    community at large, the first step to achieving this is to treat the SCD 
    community at large with respect, and that includes dance authors. Consider 
    this a small part of »a strategy to expand the existing global membership, 
    develop member services and evolve the brand« :^)
    
    Sorry for droning on about this for so long. But I guess if the Society 
    big-wigs are willing to pay some random MBA £35K a year to figure these 
    things out for them, they should be happy to get the stuff from me, for free. 
    There's more where this came from :^)
    
    Anselm
    -- 
    Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
    The reward of a thing well done is to have done it.     -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
  • ...

    Rod Downey July 30, 2008, 1:13 p.m. (Message 53256, in reply to message 53253)

    Hi all,
    
    
    This is a very complex issue in many ways. To suggest that
    the RSCDS does its thing and the devisor does their thing is rather 
    disingenuous. Here the RSCDS is generic as a term
    in reference to this topic. the same occurs with local branch
    books, etc. When one 
    submits a dance 
    to another forum, especially some 
    influential group of peers, it is not like
    publishing for yourself. For yourself, you can write dances
    suggest music and either people like them or they don't but it hardly
    matters in the sense that almost all dances die of natural causes.
    
    When you devise a dance and it is sent to some group which is seen
    as infuential; first if the dance is accepted then you have a much greater
    chance of this dance being danced often. Presumably people 
    submitting hope their dances will
    be danced and appreciated; they are your babies.
    Second, if people don't love them then they are not liking your babies.
    Third, you have a much greater 
    chance of it being rejected, which is pretty demoralizing. Nobody likes
    being said no to. So if you have the dance accepted and the group
    choose music different than what you wish, then there is  a significant
    dilemma. what should you do? These choices are difficult.
    It is not an even power relationship unless you are very
    determined.
    
    I find them very hard and especially when sometimes particular music is
    in mind when dances are written. Often what happens is that
    you go with the flow and whereas locally the music you want is the one
    that will be used, but elsewhere other tunes will be used.
    
    Even when it comes down to some negotiation, it is like negotiating
    with the bank; they have the money and you don't.
    
    
    It was once said ``Why are academic arguments so passionate''
    Answer ''Because the stakes are so low''
    
    By they way, this does not reflect any activity I have had with the
    RSCDS and I have no knowledge of them re this. But to suggest that
    being ``annointed'' by the RSCDS has no influence on some dance being 
    danced often is silly, and that as a consequence that group
    should be very careful with making sure it is completely correct is
    a corollary.
    
    
    best
    
    rod
  • ...

    Anselm Lingnau July 30, 2008, 2:49 p.m. (Message 53257, in reply to message 53256)

    Rod Downey wrote:
    
    > Even when it comes down to some negotiation, it is like negotiating
    > with the bank; they have the money and you don't.
    
    Hm. One thing: You can always try to go to a different bank, but there is only 
    one RSCDS.
    
    Another thing: The bank can easily find something else to do with their money. 
    However, if the RSCDS makes a habit out of doing things that are unpopular 
    with its members, it will, in the long run, cease to exist. This may, for a 
    time, make life more difficult for the SCD community in various respects but 
    it will not be fatal to SCD as such -- other people or organisations will 
    step up (or be established) to fill the gap.
    
    I'm not suggesting at all that the Catch The Wind issue is something that 
    enough members would care about enough to make them leave (which would, I 
    think, be ridiculous). Even so, it is worth keeping in mind that it is 
    symptomatic for the larger issues the Society must face in the coming years, 
    one of which is to transcend the »we/they« dichotomy that shines even through 
    Rod's comment I quoted above.
    
    We -- the Society -- must make it abundantly clear that there is no »ivory 
    tower« where matters are, as a matter of course, decided »without reference 
    to anyone«. We must make it abundantly clear that the Society is there *for* 
    the SCD community, starting at the Coates Crescent conference table and 
    extending all the way to (if the need should arise) a set of penguins on the 
    Antarctic shelf ice. We must make this clear to our members (»develop member 
    services«) as well to the dancing community at large (»expand the existing 
    global membership«). We can only thrive as a Society if we draw on the 
    collective talents of our members (be they dance teachers, artists, 
    accountants, journalists, or whatever), and we can only do this if these 
    members will freely give their talents and time secure in the knowledge that 
    these gifts will be appreciated. This does not mean that we must accept 
    everything unconditionally, but that we will, in the spirit of doing good for 
    SCD as a whole, contrive to find ways of letting those who wish to contribute 
    actually contribute, and encourage others to do the same.
    
    I hate to come back to this but I happen to think that getting the members 
    (ex-members, future members) behind the Society is the Big Thing, and that 
    this must proceed at a grassroots level. The perception problems that the 
    Society has are not going to be fixed by hiring a single person to work out 
    of Coates Crescent. The Society -- and that most emphatically means 
    *everyone*, not just the office bearers and MB -- must be seen to go out and 
    do things where the dancing is, not waste another decade in committees 
    discussing strategy papers on glossy stock that emanate from an Edinburgh 
    office. I happen to think that Bob McArthur has it exactly right -- take 
    those 35.000 pounds Sterling per year and use them to fund an increased RSCDS 
    presence in places where dancing takes place. Expand the »missionary visit« 
    program to fledgling groups all over the world. Hold workshops at regional 
    folk dance festivals. Show people what SCD (and the Society) is all about. 
    Give a hand to groups who are starting out in remote places. Encourage 
    branches to »adopt« a group like Bob's in Poland and further international 
    cooperation that way. Do more for new musicians. Get projects together to put 
    the RSCDS repertoire of dance descriptions, sheet music, and recordings 
    on-line, so Bob's new Polish group and 1.000 more around the world do not 
    have to rely on other people's cast-offs, surplus media, or bootleg copies. 
    These are just a few ideas off the top of my head. This is not rocket 
    science, and not something you need to hire a full-time consultant to tell 
    you. Can it really be *that* difficult?
    
    Anyway, I need to get some honest work done for a change. Perhaps I'm the only 
    person to get that worked up about this, in which case I apologise for taking 
    up your time. But this soap-box must be good for something every so often :^)
    
    Anselm
    -- 
    Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
    [A computer is] like an Old Testament god, with a lot of rules and no mercy.
                                                                -- Joseph Campbell
  • ...

    campbell July 30, 2008, 3:01 p.m. (Message 53258, in reply to message 53257)

    I do hope you are applying for the job Anselm!!
    
    You have the ideas, energy, passion, vision etc that the position needs.
    More so than most other applicants are likely to have.
    
    In addition you have the great bonus that you will want to make the position
    redundant as soon as possible so we wont be stuck with someone creating a
    pension for themselves.
    
    What's in it for you?  When you return to your current position you wont
    have to write these sorts of emails anymore.  Go on, go for it.
    
    Campbell
  • ...

    Pia Walker July 30, 2008, 7:17 p.m. (Message 53270, in reply to message 53257)

    So you will be standing for Management Board this year?
    
    Pia
  • ...

    Monica Pollard July 31, 2008, 1:32 a.m. (Message 53279, in reply to message 53270)

    Anselm Lingnau said:
    > We -- the Society -- must make it abundantly clear that there is no
    »ivory tower« where matters are, as a matter of course, decided
    »without reference to anyone«....
    > ....getting the members (ex-members, future members) behind the
    Society is the Big Thing, and that this must proceed at a grassroots
    level. The perception problems that the Society has are not going to
    be fixed by hiring a single person to work out of Coates Crescent...
    > ...The Society -- and that most emphatically means *everyone*, not
    just the office bearers and MB -- must be seen to go out and do things
    where the dancing is, not waste another decade in committees
    discussing strategy papers on glossy stock that emanate from an
    Edinburgh office.
    
    Pia and Campbell both ask Anselm (essentially) :
    > So you will be standing for Management Board this year?
    
    Why ask Anselm?  Aren't most of us the "Members"?  What are each of
    *us* going to do about helping the RSCDS become more responsive to our
    needs?
    
    My first step will be a renewed effort to talk about the Society in
    class more often, and encourage my dancers to join.  We don't usually
    talk about the RSCDS much in class or at events, because it's
    difficult to show people here exactly what it is they're getting for
    their money.
    
    However, with the support of our group, I hope to attend TAC Summer
    School in 2010 to take Unit 5.  Hopefully ;) our dancers will be
    getting a better teacher out of that effort.  It's an ideal
    opportunity to remind them that this training exists because of the
    work of the RSCDS.
    
    I've not been a wildly enthusiastic supporter of the RSCDS in the
    past, for various reasons.  But if the Society did make more
    'missionary effort' to become visible in isolated areas, and more
    supportive of small groups like ours, it would gain much goodwill.
    
    Monica Pollard
    Nampa, ID
    
    
    
    
    -- 
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a
    horrible warning."
    Catherine Aird
  • ...

    Pia Walker July 31, 2008, 10:06 a.m. (Message 53282, in reply to message 53279)

    thank you - it would help if people knew about the RSCDS and its work.
    Without the myths that are plentyful out there.  And you are absolutely
    right - the RSCDS is its members - if we don't do anything, nobody does.  It
    it up to Us not Them (of which I am one)to make RSCDS an even better entity.
    
    Re missionary efforts - (I personally hate that word) - we are not here to
    preach, so outreach would be better I think.  And there are quite af few of
    Us who are spending a great deal of our time to get these areas involved -
    WHEN we get to know about them.
    
    I am now personally going to speak as one of US who have been one of THEM
    for a couple of years :>)  ie it is my personal opinion :>)
    
    It is also a matter of priority - if we have to spend several hours
    researching why a dance 10 years or more ago did not or did have a preferred
    tune, and why that tune was or wasn't used in order to pacify several RSCDS
    members, then there are less time to deal with researching where there are
    'isolated' dance groups who could do with a helping hand. Not that it isn't
    important to the people who devised the dances etc., of course it is - as
    someone said it is their baby, but it was a wee while ago.
    
    It is a fine balance of servicing the members, listening to all the ideas,
    suggestions, critique, grievances etc that are now, due to the change in the
    communication environment and the change in how the Society is run, coming
    to the fore and also 'opening up new markets' when you are only a handful of
    people trying to do everything, for everyone.
    
    I would also like to ask how many of the oft heard grievances are
    historical? but perpeturated ad infinitum?  And how many are recent?  Not
    that there are no mistakes or errors now, of course there is.
    
    Things are changing for the 'better' - Communication still needs worked on,
    but it is getting there albeit slowly.  Perhaps someone who is paid to have
    an overall view can help making everyone feel a little bit better, and make
    the RSCDS a little more exciting for old and new potential members.
    
    Pia
    Member of the Anselm for President campaign :>)
    
    
    
    
    Why ask Anselm?  Aren't most of us the "Members"?  What are each of
    *us* going to do about helping the RSCDS become more responsive to our
    needs?
    
    My first step will be a renewed effort to talk about the Society in
    class more often, and encourage my dancers to join.  We don't usually
    talk about the RSCDS much in class or at events, because it's
    difficult to show people here exactly what it is they're getting for
    their money.
    
    However, with the support of our group, I hope to attend TAC Summer
    School in 2010 to take Unit 5.  Hopefully ;) our dancers will be
    getting a better teacher out of that effort.  It's an ideal
    opportunity to remind them that this training exists because of the
    work of the RSCDS.
    
    I've not been a wildly enthusiastic supporter of the RSCDS in the
    past, for various reasons.  But if the Society did make more
    'missionary effort' to become visible in isolated areas, and more
    supportive of small groups like ours, it would gain much goodwill.
    
    Monica Pollard
    Nampa, ID
    
    
    
    
    --
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a
    horrible warning."
    Catherine Aird
    
    
    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 30/07/2008
    06:56
  • ...

    alan mair July 31, 2008, 4:18 p.m. (Message 53283, in reply to message 53282)

    > It is also a matter of priority - if we have to spend several hours
    > researching why a dance 10 years or more ago did not or did have a 
    > preferred
    > tune, and why that tune was or wasn't used in order to pacify several 
    > RSCDS
    > members, then there are less time to deal with researching where there are
    > 'isolated' dance groups who could do with a helping hand. Not that it 
    > isn't
    > important to the people who devised the dances etc., of course it is - as
    > someone said it is their baby, but it was a wee while ago.
    
    I can see no conflict whatsoever between doing what needs to be done to 
    support branches in the quest to recruit and retain members (surely the main 
    priority) and taking time in the publication process to show appropriate 
    respect to the devisors of dances. We should be expecting Pia, as a member 
    of the Management Board, to be saying "I will find out what did go wrong in 
    this case and make sure it is dealt with, lessons learned etc".
    
    > It is a fine balance of servicing the members, listening to all the ideas,
    > suggestions, critique, grievances etc that are now, due to the change in 
    > the
    > communication environment and the change in how the Society is run, coming
    > to the fore and also 'opening up new markets' when you are only a handful 
    > of
    > people trying to do everything, for everyone.
    Perhaps some new people are hearing all the ideas, suggestions, critiques, 
    grievances etc but it was to deal better with them that the management 
    structure was changed in the first place.(Previously only the Chairman and 
    Vice Chairman saw the whole picture). If there are only a "handful of people 
    trying to do everything", why is the Management Board being reduced in 
    number?
    
    > I would also like to ask how many of the oft heard grievances are
    > historical? but perpeturated ad infinitum?  And how many are recent?  Not
    > that there are no mistakes or errors now, of course there is.
    That is easy - the grievance will be as old as the problem. The role of the 
    Management Board is to solve the problems - not cause them.
    
    > Things are changing for the 'better' - Communication still needs worked 
    > on,
    > but it is getting there albeit slowly.  Perhaps someone who is paid to 
    > have
    > an overall view can help making everyone feel a little bit better, and 
    > make
    > the RSCDS a little more exciting for old and new potential members.
    The Management Board are elected to have an overall view and to make the 
    decisions that will influence how everyone feels and how exciting the 
    Society is. I'm with  Anselm on this one!! We need better than "perhaps" 
    from a member of the Management Board to justify spending 35K+ on an annual 
    basis.
    
    Alan
    Cupar, Fife
  • ...

    Bob McArthur July 31, 2008, 4:50 p.m. (Message 53285, in reply to message 53283)

    May I apologies to all for "kicking off" this debate about the
    Executive Post for development of SCD Worldwide, my comments a few
    weeks ago about what was the main priority - a) filling another
    position or b) funding the travel of volunteer teachers reaching out
    to the new small groups needing help wherever they are located.
     
    Pia recognised the need to offer help and did so immediately and so
    did Fiona Grant who also attended Festival Dybuk in Poland two weeks
    ago along with Luke and Adam Brady - I could not have asked for a
    better team to promote SCD and the RSCDS in particular.
     
    All that would not have happened without Anselm's Strathpey Server
    which has been fantastic for getting the word out into the SCD
    community.
     
    It will take time to change or improve things in our dance world but
    the challenge is there to be met and if an executive post is necessary
    to bring it all together then so be it, but please get the cost issue
    correct as salary alone is not the end of the process of
    accountability for the service muted.
     
    Regarding Poland we now have 3 established groups participating in the
    workshops with the possibility of more joining in at the Bedzin
    Festival in 28 days time.  They are all relatively unknown in SCD
    circles and that is something we are addressing as a priority by
    encouraging them to join or affilliate as soon as possible and also to
    publicise their group details wherever possible. It will take time and
    goodwill from all the SCD community but I hope that by next year the
    Poland scene will have developed into a country wide experience of SCD
    for them to enjoy
     
    Regards
     
    Bob McArthur
    Scosha Group
    Bournemouth, UK
  • ...

    Pia Walker July 31, 2008, 6:09 p.m. (Message 53286, in reply to message 53283)

    Miauuwwwwwww!!!!!   And she normally does try and find out what goes wrong -
    when asked :>)  I have a sneaking suspicion that checks and balances were
    not present at that point in time.  Working methods that was accepted
    standard then have changed, and will continue to change to the better.
    
    Which brings me on to the next bit - when you suddenly start operating with
    a set of procedures, the first thing that is visible is the black holes that
    the lack of same previously caused.  It is not that long ago, that a lot of
    things was done manually and in hard copy only, with no e-mail/IT, but with
    letters and memos etc. This is changing (slowly) and with that change comes
    an ability to see what was lacking - it also makes communication faster and
    easier (and more plentyful), so hopefully it will be easier to double check
    that things are right in the first place.
    
    For a long time now, I have been hearing: - RSCDS needs to change - we need
    to go forward - we need to modernise - get into the 20th Century etc.  :>) A
    sniggering in the corners when hearing "In my day..."
    So why are we getting het up about something which happened 10 years ago?
    Why can't we look forward?  Try and get it right now?  And to do that we
    need all to work together.
    
    I like the RSCDS, I like to dance, I have tried to do my little bit to
    ensure that I can for a while longer.  I know I have not been able to turn
    the world on its end and come up with THE SOLUTION, but I do hope that in
    the 2 years I have been in the MB, I have done something to help progress.
    And I will continue to support and defend the RSCDS despite its faults,
    because there are also many good things going right.
    
    I now want to eat, then go dancing :>)
    See you there Alan.
    
    Pia
  • ...

    Anselm Lingnau July 31, 2008, 4:42 p.m. (Message 53284, in reply to message 53282)

    Pia wrote:
    
    > It is a fine balance of servicing the members, listening to all the ideas,
    > suggestions, critique, grievances etc that are now, due to the change in
    > the communication environment and the change in how the Society is run,
    > coming to the fore and also 'opening up new markets' when you are only a
    > handful of people trying to do everything, for everyone.
    
    I meant to reply to this but then suddenly found myself having written 
    possibly the longest piece I ever came up with in the history of this list, 
    with not enough time to edit it down to something palatable.
    
    Rather than bore the list subscribers with yet another ten-page diatribe on 
    Society governance and project sketches I decided to put it up on the Web 
    where those people who are *really* interested in this sort of thing can find 
    it. Look at
    
      http://my.strathspey.org/anselm/stories/reply-to-pia
    
    if you have nothing more worthwhile to do with yourselves. If you have 
    comments you know where to find me :^)
    
    Anselm
    -- 
    Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
    Technical skill is mastery of complexity, while creativity is mastery of
    simplicity.                                           -- E. Christopher Zeeman
  • ...

    Pia Walker July 31, 2008, 6:26 p.m. (Message 53288, in reply to message 53284)

    Would you like me to send your ideas into RSCDS or would you like to do it
    yourself :>)
    
    And I apologize wholeheartedly for my 'perhaps' comment - It was a very
    superficial comment I agree.
    
    Pia
  • ...

    campbell July 31, 2008, 8:53 p.m. (Message 53290, in reply to message 53288)

    Pia, I don't think you have to apologise for your "perhaps" comment - for me
    it was obviously your attempt to gently lead the conversation, rather than
    come out with a bald statement.  IT certainly did not for me indicate any
    lack of commitment or surety.  But when the blood is up communication
    suffers.
    
    A somewhat disillusioned....
    
    Campbell
    Cape Town
  • ...

    Pia Walker July 31, 2008, 11:48 p.m. (Message 53292, in reply to message 53290)

    Thank you
    
    Pia
  • ...

    campbell July 31, 2008, 8:47 p.m. (Message 53289, in reply to message 53284)

    Anselm,
    
    You really must turn off your random quote generator.  The one at the end of
    your website piece is priceless.
    
    Campbell
    Cape Town
  • ...

    Andrew Smith Aug. 8, 2008, 9:20 a.m. (Message 53343, in reply to message 53253)

    It may be of interest, and I apologise for coming to this late, but have 
    been at St Andrews for the RSCDS Summer School, with additional holiday 
    before and after. [Incidentally the classes were differently organised this 
    year and I regard it as a significant improvement.]
    
    I was consulted by the Society about both the tune and content details for 
    "Alan J Smith", when it was submitted by Bristol Branch for consideration 
    for inclusion in Book 45. The Branch naturally informed me that it was their 
    choice.
    
    May I add that the suggestion was made in class at St Andrews, in the year 
    of publication, by our teacher , Christine Mair,  that the dancing couple 
    give nearer hands briefly as they come round together from turning the third 
    couple and before they go in to the double triangles formation.
    I am thoroughly in favour of this and, as I said at the time, wish that I 
    had thought of it for myself.
    
    Andrew Smith,
    Bristol, UK.

Previous Thread Next Thread