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Ask and Ye shall receive - Perhaps!

Iain Boyd

Iain Boyd

May 8, 2006, 11:54 p.m. (Message 45200)

Marie Disiewicz <xxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:    Trust me, there are 24
recordings for Hamilton House with 24 different bands if you can
believe it. Thank goodness they didn't look around and say 'I cannot
record that". They believed in themselves and recorded it again and
again.
  24 recordings of "Hamilton House" - which is very rarely danced
  these days - is probably 16-20 too many!
   
  It would be nice to have recordings of some of the other 12000
  dances recorded in DanceData than the same dances over and over
  again - "The Montgomeries Rant", "Mairi's Wedding" to name just two.
   
  There are so many really good dances out there that do not have
  music, and, lets face it, most will never be danced because there is
  no recorded music!
   
  Regards,
   
  Iain Boyd 
   
   
  
 

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Marie Disiewicz

Marie Disiewicz

May 9, 2006, 12:53 a.m. (Message 45201, in reply to message 45200)

Well there is an opening for a band.
What ones were you thinking of Iain.
 I was giving examples.
I do find for demonstrations people love the music and to be able to sing 
along to Mairi's Wedding, but 8 times through is too much to watch being 
danced.
A request for The Royal Exchange   has just come across my desk today. Guess 
what, it is not on a CD that I can find. Those who know their music would 
know what to choose for this dance.
This is the reason that so many of the new CDs are being used for dances 
that have no recording .
The best advantage of course is live music.
We all have our opinions on music and be sure I hear a lot of it.
Cheers
Marie
Martin

Martin

May 9, 2006, 11:25 a.m. (Message 45205, in reply to message 45200)

Iain Boyd wrote:
>   24 recordings of "Hamilton House" - is probably 16-20 too many!
>    
>   recordings of the same dances over and over again - "The
Montgomeries Rant", "Mairi's Wedding" to name just two.
Likewise with kilts.
Black Watch & Royal Stuart tartans are available everywhere, but try to 
buy something less common - pay the earth, or wait, and wait, and wait!

Kiltmakers, like record companies, are not too adventurous.

Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
Ozorak

Ozorak

May 9, 2006, 6:36 p.m. (Message 45207, in reply to message 45205)

It's not just record companies.  There are independent bands, like mine, 
that do it as a hobby.  So if I think of sinking $10,000 out of pocket for a 
CD that has limited market appeal, then I have to have some guarantee that 
the dance is worth having music to.  The way I think it, each track costs me 
anywhere between $500 to $1,000 to record, so it better be something that 
has some market appeal rather than just pull something out of obscurity.

When I look at dance tune books, the same is true.  There are tons of 
published fiddle tunes, but how many of them are really worth recording? 
How many versions do we need to have of tunes that are done to death (such 
as Ian Burns' "Spootiskerry"?).

Etienne,
Meadville, PA
mlamontbrown

mlamontbrown

May 9, 2006, 7:10 p.m. (Message 45209, in reply to message 45207)

Actually, it gets a bit more complicated than that.

I have some very good recordings of Sets of Reels / Jigs etc, but the first thing I
do when selecting CDs is to see if I have a recording for the dance (even if it
hasn't actually got a named tune!).  So I finish up using what might be an inferior
recording, just because someone bothered to make a recording for a particular dance. 

I suppose I could go through all my dances to see if any of them have recommended
tunes, and then check to see if that was the tune used on a particular recording -
but I won't! I will continue to search my CD database to see if the dance has a
recording, and use it if there is one.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York  (UK)
Alexandre Rafalovitch

Alexandre Rafalovitch

May 9, 2006, 7:14 p.m. (Message 45210, in reply to message 45207)

On 5/9/06, Etienne Ozorak <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> When I look at dance tune books, the same is true.  There are tons of
> published fiddle tunes, but how many of them are really worth recording?

So, is there any way to find this out? Is this something that can be
reasoned out from ball programs?

What kind of information do we have (or can get) that would help us
know what is needed?

Or do we need more explicit method? For example, would some sort of
Vote button for online copy of DanceData work as a capture method? For
an example of votable interface, see http://www.digg.com/

Regards,
    Alex.
Steve Wyrick

Steve Wyrick

May 9, 2006, 3:30 p.m. (Message 45206, in reply to message 45200)

Iain Boyd wrote:

>   24 recordings of "Hamilton House" - which is very rarely danced these days -
> is probably 16-20 too many!
>    
>   It would be nice to have recordings of some of the other 12000 dances
> recorded in DanceData than the same dances over and over again - "The
> Montgomeries Rant", "Mairi's Wedding" to name just two.
>    
>   There are so many really good dances out there that do not have music, and,
> lets face it, most will never be danced because there is no recorded music!
>    

In my experience, not having the correct music is rarely a show-stopper!  It
would be interesting, though, to know how many of those 12,000 dances
actually specify a particular tune.  Does anyone know if there's a way to
get this information from DanceData?  The other information that I'd find
interesting is how many distinct tunes are specified in those 12,000
records, and how many repeats there are.
-- 
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California
Alan Paterson

Alan Paterson

May 10, 2006, 8:55 a.m. (Message 45213, in reply to message 45206)

On 09/05/2006 15:30, Steve Wyrick wrote:
> In my experience, not having the correct music is rarely a show-stopper!  It
> would be interesting, though, to know how many of those 12,000 dances
> actually specify a particular tune.  Does anyone know if there's a way to
> get this information from DanceData? 

Seems to me that the best way to answer this one would be to ask the 
programmer.

Answer - 6900

Alan
Iain Boyd

Iain Boyd

May 9, 2006, 10:55 p.m. (Message 45212, in reply to message 45200)

Frequently, a track with the required tune is for a well known dance
which can not be used because the dancers will complain - "We can't
dance to that - the music is putting us off." - or some such comment.
   
  Also, a track may have the required tune or a suitable alternative
  but the rest of the tunes (although good) are not suitable for the
  dance. I frequently have this problem when trying to recommend
  'suitable recorded music' for my dances.
   
  Regards,
   
  Iain Boyd
   
   
  

mlamontbrown <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
  Actually, it gets a bit more complicated than that.

I have some very good recordings of Sets of Reels / Jigs etc, but the first thing I
do when selecting CDs is to see if I have a recording for the dance (even if it
hasn't actually got a named tune!). So I finish up using what might be an inferior
recording, just because someone bothered to make a recording for a particular dance. 

I suppose I could go through all my dances to see if any of them have recommended
tunes, and then check to see if that was the tune used on a particular recording -
but I won't! I will continue to search my CD database to see if the dance has a
recording, and use it if there is one.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)






Postal Address -

  P O Box 11-404
  Wellington
  New Zealand
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Martin

Martin

May 10, 2006, 9:27 a.m. (Message 45214, in reply to message 45212)

Iain Boyd wrote:
> ..."We can't dance to that - the music is putting us off." 
>   
Well, obviously, if you play a waltz or a slow march, you may well get 
such a comment.
Or if you use a recording dating from the 40s & 50s, when dancers 
apparently had more energy than they do today.
But I fail to see how a jig, a reel, or a strathspey, with accepted 
tempo and standard length, can put dancers off performing a jig, a reel, 
or a strathspey, whatever the tune.
>    ... tunes (although good) that are not suitable for the dance. 
Could you give us an example, please?
>  Malcom wrote that he sometimes used "what might be an inferior
> recording, just because someone bothered to make a recording for a particular dance. "
>   
That seems an unfortunate choice.

What is dancing anyway?

It's just something to do while listen to nice music.

Although I too devise dances and think am critical/appreciative of 
poorly-compiled/pleasing sequences, it is the music that is the most 
important, imho.
There are so many good recordings, why use anything else?

Martin,
Grenoble, France.
Iain Boyd

Iain Boyd

May 10, 2006, 12:31 p.m. (Message 45216, in reply to message 45214)

Sorry, Martin, I should have been more precise. One can not use
recordings of "The Montgomeries' Rant" or "The Sailor" or "Red House"
(even if the alternative tunes are suitable) because the original
tunes are so well known and identified with their dances.
   
  Iain Boyd
   
   
  

Martin Sheffield <xx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
  Iain Boyd wrote:
> ..."We can't dance to that - the music is putting us off." 
> 
Well, obviously, if you play a waltz or a slow march, you may well get 
such a comment.
Or if you use a recording dating from the 40s & 50s, when dancers 
apparently had more energy than they do today.
But I fail to see how a jig, a reel, or a strathspey, with accepted 
tempo and standard length, can put dancers off performing a jig, a reel, 
or a strathspey, whatever the tune.
> ... tunes (although good) that are not suitable for the dance. 
Could you give us an example, please?
> Malcom wrote that he sometimes used "what might be an inferior
> recording, just because someone bothered to make a recording for a particular dance. "
> 
That seems an unfortunate choice.

What is dancing anyway?

It's just something to do while listen to nice music.

Although I too devise dances and think am critical/appreciative of 
poorly-compiled/pleasing sequences, it is the music that is the most 
important, imho.
There are so many good recordings, why use anything else?

Martin,
Grenoble, France.



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Ron Mackey

Ron Mackey

May 11, 2006, 12:13 a.m. (Message 45229, in reply to message 45214)

> What is dancing anyway?
> 
> It's just something to do while listen to nice music.
> 
> Although I too devise dances and think am critical/appreciative of 
> poorly-compiled/pleasing sequences, it is the music that is the most 
> important, imho.
> There are so many good recordings, why use anything else?
> 
> Martin,
> Grenoble, France.
> 

	It seems to me that you have answered the question 
yourself.   Moving to the music is the most important thing but La 
Russe to a samba tune is just not on.
A lot of dances _need_ their own music.   The Robertson Rant would 
not be the same dance without the music especially composed for it.   
Lamb Skinnet just would not be the same to any other set of tunes 
than those originally recorded.   Try the Round Reel of Eight or The 
Rothesay Rant to anything else but their own sound is unthinkable.

Of course many dances without their own tune can be danced to 
almost anything.  However many are so specific in their 
requirements that I, personally often spend considerable time (which 
can be counted in hours) getting just the right music to some very 
nice new dances which have a definite personality but are without 
their own music.  
	Often 'any old tune' will do but equally often 'a.o.t' just will 
NOT do.

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