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MacNab Dances in diagrams

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  • ...

    Lydia Hedge April 1, 2006, 11:19 a.m. (Message 44942)

    Hello all,
    
    I have just received a "proof" copy of "The MacNab Dances in diagrams" 
    from the author of the diagrams - Angus Henry (Australia).
    
    What a massive effort he has expended!! It is 14 pages of (rather larger 
    than normal) Pilling like diagrams. Easy to read and accurate (as far as I can 
    tell - I am not familiar with ALL of the dances). A quick way to refresh your 
    memory on these (often complex) dances.
    
    It contains detailed diagrammatic representations of the 27 dances collected 
    by Mary Isdale MacNab and published by the RSCDS in "Scottish Dances" 
    Volumes I and II plus two other dances published earlier in the RSCDS 
    leaflet sets "Traditional Scottish Dances".
    
    My original understanding was that the RSCDS was going to take Angus' 
    idea and fly with it, but I have heard no more about it, so I am really pleased 
    to have a proof copy for the interim. It would be good to know when (and if) 
    HQ is planning to publish this booklet (or one like it). 
    
    I think many dancers and teachers (especially, because of the extra 
    notations to help them) would benefit from these diagrams.
    
    Well done, Angus!! And thank you.
    
    Regards,
    
    Lydia Hedge
    Nova Scotia, Canada
  • ...

    Marie Disiewicz April 1, 2006, 4:58 p.m. (Message 44943, in reply to message 44942)

    Don't forget there is the video HQ put out last year of the MacNab (27) 
    dances plus instructions of  "The Duke of Gordon's Welcome To Aberdeen" 
    colledcted by Mr. Graham Forbes of Hamilton, Ontario Canada and a very 
    useful video it is.
    Cheers
    Marie
  • ...

    e.ferguson April 1, 2006, 10:53 p.m. (Message 44944, in reply to message 44942)

    Angus,
    
    How are you intending to publish your MacNab diagrams?  As you have made 
    them, the copyright on the diagrams is yours, though the copyright holder 
    of the descriptions should be asked for permission to publish.  
    
    Perhaps you (and the RSCDS) could consider publishing them on a website, 
    for downloading, and to dispense with making printed copies unless a 
    significant demand arises.  This would allow anyone (world-wide) to print 
    them for him(her)self.  It is faster, simpler and cheaper to everyone.
    
    If you want some amount (eg what would otherwise be needed for printing and 
    postage) to be donated to charity, you could add a note to that effect; I 
    am sure all will comply.
    
    Happy dancing,
    
    Eric
  • ...

    Angus Henry April 2, 2006, 5:08 a.m. (Message 44946, in reply to message 44944)

    Eric
    
    A couple of years ago the book was arranged to be an RSCDS  
    publication and was prepared for that purpose.    With assorted  
    delays, new structures etc, it still awaits finalisation.
    
    A few people have been very supportive and helpful in preparing and  
    checking the accuracy of the work, and with the passage of many  
    months and requests for progress I have printed and sent about half a  
    dozen only as proof copies to those people.   I am still happy to  
    allow copyright to the Society when they decide to go ahead with the  
    project, if they want.
    
    Angus
  • ...

    Jim Healy April 2, 2006, 9:57 a.m. (Message 44947, in reply to message 44946)

    Greetings!
    
    With regard to publication by the Society, that depends on the outcome of 
    discussions with the successors of Pilling who have not been the most 
    responsive.
    
    Jim Healy
  • ...

    e.ferguson April 2, 2006, 12:05 p.m. (Message 44948, in reply to message 44947)

    I am astonished that this can be an issue.  
    
    This has been discussed before.  "Pilling" can (perhaps) claim copyright on 
    the diagrams they have produced themselves, but surely not on the symbols ! 
    In Germany, dance cribs are normally Pilling style diagrams, using the 
    Pilling symbols and a few others.  Has Pilling ever raised objections?  
    Publishing Angus' new MacNab diagrams would be no different.  And BTW, has 
    Pilling received permission from the copyright holders of all the dances in 
    their Wee Green Book?  
    
    Does anyone understand what material interest can "Pilling" have in trying 
    to copyright their symbols?  The more they are used, the more people will 
    want to buy the WGB. 
    
    What do the lawyers say?  
    
    This "problem" only strengthens the case for putting the diagrams on the 
    Web.
  • ...

    Jim Healy April 2, 2006, 2:25 p.m. (Message 44950, in reply to message 44948)

    Greetings!
    
    Who said anything about copyright? Who said anything about legal opinions? 
    Why is the assumption made that there must be a problem - other than a 
    slower than desired response. Discussing the possibility of the RSCDS 
    publishing Angus's booklet is something that we consider falls within the 
    normal range of courtesy. Nothing more, nothing less. BUT, some of us 
    consider such courtesies are important.
    
    Jim Healy
    Convenor, Membership Services
    
    ----Original Message Follows----
    From: "Eric Ferguson" <x.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx>
    Reply-To: x.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx,SCD news and discussion 
    <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
    To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
    Subject: Re: MacNab Dances in diagrams
    Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +0200
    
    I am astonished that this can be an issue.
    
    This has been discussed before.  "Pilling" can (perhaps) claim copyright on
    the diagrams they have produced themselves, but surely not on the symbols !
    In Germany, dance cribs are normally Pilling style diagrams, using the
    Pilling symbols and a few others.  Has Pilling ever raised objections?
    Publishing Angus' new MacNab diagrams would be no different.  And BTW, has
    Pilling received permission from the copyright holders of all the dances in
    their Wee Green Book?
    
    Does anyone understand what material interest can "Pilling" have in trying
    to copyright their symbols?  The more they are used, the more people will
    want to buy the WGB.
    
    What do the lawyers say?
    
    This "problem" only strengthens the case for putting the diagrams on the
    Web.
  • ...

    Alexandre Rafalovitch April 2, 2006, 5:52 p.m. (Message 44951, in reply to message 44950)

    On 4/2/06, Jim Healy <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
    > Greetings!
    >
    > Who said anything about copyright? Who said anything about legal opinions?
    > Why is the assumption made that there must be a problem - other than a
    > slower than desired response.
    
    This one is easy. Because your original email said that the
    publication _depends_ on the outcome of the discussion to them. To my
    ear, this sounds more like a hostage situation than just a
    confirmation that they are happy to hear about RSCDS liking their
    ancestor's notation. And given the copyright confusion related to this
    issue, we obviously presume that there are difficulties.
    
    I am sure that (at least) my opinion could be easily reversed if more
    concrete information were provided.
    
    Regards,
       Alex.
  • ...

    L. Friedman-Shedlov April 3, 2006, 4:24 p.m. (Message 44966, in reply to message 44947)

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006, Jim Healy wrote:
    > With regard to publication by the Society, that depends on the outcome of 
    > discussions with the successors of Pilling who have not been the most 
    > responsive.
    
    Any chance the Society would consider publishing the diagrams in PDF form 
    online, perhaps with a Creative Commons License (see 
    http://creativecommons.org/)?
    
    / Lara Friedman-Shedlov
    Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
    
    
    ********************************
    Lara Friedman~Shedlov               "Librarians -- Like Google, but
    xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx                       warm-blooded"
    ********************************
  • ...

    zon-taanom April 4, 2006, 6:46 p.m. (Message 44980, in reply to message 44942)

    We know that Angus has been working on this project since a long, long time
    (and we have an early draft dating June 2000 !) and had great difficulties
    in getting answers to queries regarding interpretations of the descriptions
    from the Society.  Luckily he got help from dancers around the world with
    longstanding experience of the MacNab dances from earlier times.
    
    With the successors of Pilling not being `the most responsive`, for what
    seems to us quite some time already, we really hope that now - with what
    seems to be the ´definitive` version of the booklet ready for publication -
    the Society will be able to quickly complete whatever negotiations have been
    holding up the printing (or whatever way of publication is possible).
    
    We think publication would be most timely. And, as two of the lucky few to
    have seen this handy booklet, we think it would be most helpful for
    teachers.
    
    Wanda van Taanom/ Hans van Zon
    The Hague Branch
    The Netherlands
  • ...

    Stella Fogg May 12, 2006, 7:21 a.m. (Message 45249, in reply to message 44942)

    Hi all,
    
    Does anyone know what is happening with Angus Henry's "The MacNab dances in 
    diagrams"?  I saw the booklet in its early stages and am told it has now 
    been completed.  It's a super booklet, a major undertaking, a real labour of 
    love and invaluable to those who wish to teach/dance MacNab dances.
    
    I understand that Angus has offered the booklet free of charge to the RSCDS
     and I thought since the video was available through the RSCDS, that the
     booklet would also be on offer. I even checked my TACBooks listings and its
     not there either.....maybe it will be on the shelf at St. Andrews this
    summer.  I'll be there the 2nd week of the 1st fortnight, any others going 
    to be
    there at the same time?
    
    Stella
    Richmond, VA

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