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The RSCDS Constitution
john.m.sturrock
March 29, 2006, 1:03 p.m. (Message 44893)
On the 20th March, Chris Ronald wrote : - > Hello Strathspeyers, > > This message is addressed to the RSCDS members on the list - which I > assume > means most subscribers. > > HQ is proposing a number of changes to the Constitution, which it plans to > submit to the AGM in November. They have just been posted in draft form on > the > HQ website "for consultation with Branches and members". Overall, they > seem > designed to further streamline the management arrangements that were > introduced three years ago. I had expected this to prompt a lengthy debate on strathspey. Instead, almost at the same time, a discussion started regarding chords. This took on a life of its own, lasting a week, to the exclusion of most other topics. While very interesting in itself, nothing that was said was ever likely to change the future of SCD - as one correspondent remarked, it is always likely that each area will stick to its own customs. Now that that discussion has run its course, perhaps we might turn back to the topic that could be significant to the future - the re-writing of the RSCDS Constitution. Membership of the Society has roughly halved over the last 16 years, and we must be coming to some sort of crunch. Added to that, my own observations of dancing in many places lead me to estimate that less than 10% of those dancing regularly in the Milligan tradition, are actually members of the Society. The current Constitution was ratified less than 17 months ago, and the previous Constitution only 24 months before that. Given the current situation of the Society, one has to wonder if constant re-writing is in its own best interests, if the new one will prove any more workable than the old, and if limited management time would not be better employed facing problems within the bounds of the existing Constitution(s)? The proposed new Constitution can be found on the Society website by logging in as a member, in the top right hand corner, BEFORE clicking either 'What's Changed' or 'News'. Among other things, it appears to grant future responsibility for future Constitutions, to a newly shrunk Management Board. I think debate could be very illuminating. Someone, somewhere, perhaps far from Scotland, might just bring up something that changes the course of SCD... John M Sturrock Cupar UK
john.m.sturrock ha scritto: Hi there, funnily enough almost at the same time as John's posting I got an e-mail from Martina (IB & Central Germany) asking what I thought of the proposed changes to the constitution. I have accessed the RSCDS website and, following John's instructions, I found the relevant file (I confess that I couldn't find it before....). People will be glad to know that I don't have the time for a long message at this moment in time, so I shall ask only one question: why should I care about the proposed changes? I am not terribly into RSCDS politics at high level and certainly my understanding of the pro's and con's of having so many members on the Education committee or whether there should be a position of Management Committee Convenor elect is non existent. I am sure that these proposals along with the others are indeed worthy of approval, but how is that going to affect my life as a dancer/teacher in Dundee one way or another? Andrea (fae Dundee) PS John highlights the problem of, for example, the dwindling membership, but what has got to do with the proposed changes? I leave John's message here for reference.
Most of the changes in the constitution appear to be clean-up and trying to make the committees more efficient (by reducing size and ensuring some continuity of management). The one topic that we do need to consider though is that of Society Examiners and membership of the Education and Training Committee. The proposed change is that the Management Board will appoint two examiners to the E&T Committee but not allow examiners to stand for elected positions on the committee. I agree that we need examiners on the committee but appointments are always risky as the current Management Board will appoint examiners who are in agreement with their opinions. As the board changes, so the appointees change. It is somewhat like appointments to a Senate or to a House of Lords rather than an elected body. I think it would be better to have the wording such that if the elected members of the committee does not include at least two examiners, then the Management Board should appoint examiners to make the number of examiners on the committee up to two. What are other people's thoughts? Keith R Bark Mississauga, Canada
I agree that there should not be appointments by the Board. Two positions could be reserved for examiners, but these should still be elected by the membership. I also agree that the Board should not be allowed to change the constitution without member vote. There is also a concern that many of the facets of the constitution will be moved to 'rules' which can be changed more easily. Reducing the number of Board Members is a good idea, - perhaps we should ask for Board meetings to be videoed and made available on the web! Happy Dancing Sue Petyt www.suepetyt.me.uk Skype Sue Petyt
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, john.m.sturrock wrote: > Now that that > discussion has run its course, perhaps we might turn back to the topic that > could be significant to the future - the re-writing of the RSCDS > Constitution. Membership of the Society has roughly halved over the last 16 > years, and we must be coming to some sort of crunch. Added to that, my own > observations of dancing in many places lead me to estimate that less than > 10% of those dancing regularly in the Milligan tradition, are actually > members of the Society. If falling membership is the problem, is it appropriate that non-members can't see what they think of the proposed constitution ? They may be the ones best placed to see if it will cause them to (re)join ? > The current Constitution was ratified less than 17 months ago, and the > previous Constitution only 24 months before that. Given the current > situation of the Society, one has to wonder if constant re-writing is in its > own best interests, if the new one will prove any more workable than the > old, and if limited management time would not be better employed facing > problems within the bounds of the existing Constitution(s)? > Among other things, it appears to grant > future responsibility for future Constitutions, to a newly shrunk Management > Board. I'm uncomfortable with that in principle. Fundamentally, if the members don't control the constitution they don't control anything. OK, asking the membership to change it is an effort and an expense, but it shouldn't need changing very often. If the membership was obstinately conservative and repeatedly refused to make necessary changes to the constitution, that might be an argument for a change here, but recent experience is that the membership *are* prepared to change it (perhaps too willing ?). If the members wont agree the right changes, that is their perogative; if the constitution is changed against their wishes (which is the only reason I can see for this change - I don't accept "expense") why should they even bother to remain members ? [ I'm not a member of the RCSDS, as I rarely dance SC these days. Why not ? It isn't a good way of meeting single people in their thirties. ] Andrew
Andrew C Aitchison wrote: > If falling membership is the problem, is it appropriate that non-members > can't see what they think of the proposed constitution ? They may be the > ones best placed to see if it will cause them to (re)join ? Taking this the other way round, I don't think people generally leave the Society on purpose because they have a beef of some kind with its constitution. In fact I wonder how much of the membership reduction is due to, er, biological reasons -- old members of long standing passing through the Pearly Gates with not enough new members coming in to make up the shortfall. Are there any numbers at HQ giving an insight into this? The question then remains not primarily how to maintain existing members, but how to attract new ones. This has more to do with how the Society presents itself to prospective members, and again I would venture to guess that the constitution is the least of its problems in that regard. Sure, the constitution should be a reasonable one and allowing for efficient management of the Society, but how many people have recently said »Well, SCD is really the bee's knees but with *that* constitution I'm never going to be an RSCDS member«? > > Among other things, it appears to grant > > future responsibility for future Constitutions, to a newly shrunk > > Management Board. > > I'm uncomfortable with that in principle. > Fundamentally, if the members don't control the constitution they don't > control anything. OK, asking the membership to change it is an effort and > an expense, but it shouldn't need changing very often. I agree with Andrew here. I'm all in favour of efficient management of the Society, but the Management Board has been elected by the membership (in a roundabout way, but still elected) and should not be given the power to basically perpetuate itself into eternity by changing the constitution in that regard. Not that I believe this is likely to happen, but it is good to have the safeguards even so. (We Germans have a story or three to tell about things like this, if you look at the history of the 20th century.) Incidentally, I don't know about Scottish law in this regard and I expect this has been vetted beforehand, but an arrangement like this would not be legal here in Germany. Changes of the constitution of an »eingetragener Verein« (registered association) must always be approved by a general meeting of the membership. There is no way you would get this change past the court of registry. > [ I'm not a member of the RCSDS, as I rarely dance SC these days. Why not ? > It isn't a good way of meeting single people in their thirties. > ] You should come to Germany, then :^) Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx None can love freedom heartily, but good men -- the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Greetings! The following comment is only in repect of a matter of fact. Anselm writes: >> the Management Board has been elected by the membership (in a roundabout way, but still elected) and should not be given the power to basically perpetuate itself into eternity by changing the constitution in that regard.<< Scots law is no different. What is on the web site is a discussion document. Any changes to the Constitution must be approved by a 2/3rds majority of those voting at the AGM. The safeguards are there. Jim Healy Perth and Monaco
Jim Healy wrote: > Scots law is no different. What is on the web site is a discussion > document. Any changes to the Constitution must be approved by a 2/3rds > majority of those voting at the AGM. The safeguards are there. Yes. Any changes to the *current* constitution must be approved by the AGM, and I didn't mean to imply any different. However, I should like things to stay that way, hence I'm seconding Andrew's opinion that the MB should not be given the power *by the AGM* to unilaterally change the constitution in the future :^) I don't know whether Scots law allows the membership to explicitly vote itself out of the loop like that; German law (irrelevantly to the matter at hand) doesn't. Again, I am sure that the current changes have been proposed with only the best of intentions. Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world. -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
Andrew wrote...... > Among other things, it appears to grant future responsibility for > future Constitutions, to a newly shrunk Management Board. > I'm uncomfortable with that in principle. > Fundamentally, if the members don't control the constitution they > don't control anything. OK, asking the membership to change it is an > effort and an expense, but it shouldn't need changing very often. That is not my reading of the draft new Constitution. The Constitution can only be changed by the Society in General Meeting, and indeed requires a two-thirds majority of those delegates present (para 49), which is quite a hurdle. There is no change from the present Constitution in this regard. What has changed and is mildly troubling is that the Management Board (MB) is reduced to half the number of ordinary elected members, because, it is murmured, the present MB is too unwieldy. Having a smaller board, plus the new powers of the MB to appoint outsiders such as "Directors" and "Executives" ...well if you are going to persuade some folk to work for nothing at least give them a grand title :-) , and giving these appointees voting powers AND trusteeship, does appear to somewhat erode the democratic nature of the Society. Some will of course say that democracy can be inefficient, but history students and others (like Anselm) can tell us the cure is worse than the disease. William Whyte
This is what the draft constitution states with regard to alterations to the constitiution (item 49a): "An alteration to the Constitution of the Society shall be effected only by a motion passed by the Society in General Meeting which shall have received the vote of not fewer than two thirds of the delegates present." Changing the rules is a different matter (item 23d): "The Management Board shall have the following powers: (...) to make or amend Rules within the terms of the Constitution for the administration and management of the affairs of the Society." Several postings so far have referred to concerns about changing the constitution without member vote. There is currently no provision for individual RSCDS members to vote at the AGM; voting at the AGM is done by Branch delegates, who may, or may not, depending on the way a Branch conducts its business, have been instructed to vote in accordance with the members' wishes. If you are a RSCDS member but not a member of a Branch (= a HQ member), you have no vote at the Society AGM. You do, however, (draft constitution item 6a) have the right to stand for election to the Management Board and Management Committees and to offer yourself as a candidate for appointed posts (and get involved in decision-making from within the RSCDS management structure). The consultation process for the draft constitution and rules is scheduled to run until 25 May, which is the closing date for submissions to HQ. The more feedback the better! Susi Susi Mayr Vienna, Austria (& RSCDS Management Board) xxxx@xxxxxxx.xx.xx
Susi Mayr wrote:
> This is what the draft constitution states with regard to alterations to
> the constitiution (item 49a):
> "An alteration to the Constitution of the Society shall be effected only
> by a motion passed by the Society in General Meeting which shall have
> received the vote of not fewer than two thirds of the delegates present."
All right (deep breath). I'm relieved :^)
Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
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Susi Mayr wrote- "Changing the rules is a different matter (item 23d): "The Management Board shall have the following powers: (...) to make or amend Rules within the terms of the Constitution for the administration and management of the affairs of the Society."" That statement has been written into the RSCDS Constitution for many years. It applied to the Executive Council and was transferred to the Management Board with no change in its wording - but there is now a change in the draft Constitution in that the word "rules" has been changed to "Rules". If there is to be no change in the accepted (and desirable) practice that the "Rules" attached to the Constitution can only be changed or added to at AGM (but with a sinply majority), why has this small but important change been made? The Management Board is elected to administer and manage the Society so we would expect it to make and amend rules accordingly. The Rules which are part of the Constitution and Rules were approved by the members in General Meeting and consequently should not be changed or added to without the approval of a General Meeting. Alan Mair Cupar, Fife.