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Give credit to Devisers

e.ferguson

e.ferguson

Oct. 8, 2001, 2:37 p.m. (Message 27778)

On 7 Oct 2001, at 22:24, Oberdan Otto wrote:

> I most wholeheartedly agree. The Wee Green Book is a wonderful
> product at a most reasonable price. <...> 

> However stories about Pillings heirs taking hard positions on 
> copyright infringement of the contents of their book are a bit much to
> bear, considering that neither they nor the original Mr. Pillings
> sought permission from the creators of all those dances to include
> them in the book. <...>

Far worse: no Pilling diagrams carry the deviser's name.  Whatever 
the legal position may be, it is ethically unacceptable to cite or 
describe any work of art in any form without giving credit to its 
creator.  Just fancy doing that for a play, a book, a painting, a 
sculpture, a piece of music !  Depriving a deviser of credit for his 
creation does him far more harm than would an illegal copy which 
might cause some small loss of sales.  

We can understand how this improper habit arose: the original (R)SCDS 
booklets contained "traditional" dances only, with no known deviser.  
But ever since the Reel of the 51st Division new devisers have added 
beautiful dances to our repertoire.  There is no excuse for denying 
them the credit for their creations.  All descriptions, cribs and 
Ball programmes should ALWAYS mention the deviser for every dance.  

Happy dancing,

Eric
Eric T. Ferguson, van Dormaalstraat 15, NL-5624 KH  EINDHOVEN, Netherlands
tel: (+31)(0)40-243 2878 fax:40-246 7036  e-mail: x.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx
maguy paillet

maguy paillet

Oct. 8, 2001, 3:17 p.m. (Message 27781, in reply to message 27778)

Hi,
I agree with Eric Ferguson, being myself an artist-painter.
About devisor, why only 4 of them are mentioned (DREWRY, FOSS, COSH, HAYNES)
there is enough space to print the name of the devisor. Have a look in your 
wee green book. Let's ask the printer for the next edition ?
Cheers,
MAGUY PAILLET
in LYON.FRANCE
SnowshoeTS

SnowshoeTS

Oct. 8, 2001, 3:25 p.m. (Message 27782, in reply to message 27778)

Hi

I hate so seem soppy but I agree with all the previous  posters(?) -

The devisors ,if known,unqueationably deserve credit AND a source for the 
full text version of dances would makeit possible for us to be sure that we 
were teaching dances according to the original devisors intent (or for those 
of us who like Pillings notation and convenience but insist on reconciling P. 
with original directions ,enablingus to teach  a dance with confidence as to 
accuracy)

Kirk Bachler
Twin Cities Branch,Minnesota,USA,RSCDS
Bryan McAlister

Bryan McAlister

Oct. 9, 2001, 3:34 p.m. (Message 27816, in reply to message 27782)

Agreed devisors should receive credit however bear in mind that the
value of Pillings is that it goes easily in a sporran (or handbag).

I would prefer it stayed small and legible.  That way there is more
likelihood that the dances will be done.

If programmes list the devisors then that should be adequate.

However what about the poor composers of the music.  Shouldn't they get
a mention too.  Its easy enough to ask the band to list the tunes they
intend to play as for country dancing there isn't likely to be any
improv.

As a rider to this for a recent Ceilidh in the Assembly Rooms in
Edinburgh we were passed a schedule and required to name every tune -
composer and arranger - that we intended to play for purposes of
Performing Rights. On objecting we were told no schedule no dance.

The result, given we make our programmes as we go to fit the dancers,
was a very long list of tunes, most identified as traditional, all
identified as arranged by Caerketton the name of the band. With a rider
that we couldn't guarantee to play them in any specific order, number of
times etc. etc.  We are waiting with interest for November which is when
such matters are considered, to see the royalties we got from the Gig.
Bryan McAlister B Arch RIBA ARIAS
Web page www.bryanmac.demon.co.uk
Email xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xx.xx
Mobile phone 07801 793849
FAX number - 0870 052 7625
Anselm Lingnau

Anselm Lingnau

Oct. 8, 2001, 2:59 p.m. (Message 27786, in reply to message 27778)

Eric Ferguson <x.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx> writes:

> Far worse: no Pilling diagrams carry the deviser's name.

That's not strictly true -- a bunch of them say `Drewry' or `Cosh'.
However I agree that the WGB's attitude to crediting authors and citing
sources can only be described as extremely lax.

I also agree with Peter Hastings in that programmes (or cribs) should
really mention a published source for a dance, if available, in addition
to the deviser's name. This is not as much of an issue now that we have
DanceData, but still this is helpful information that costs nothing to
include and ought to be provided as a matter of course.

Anselm
-- 
Anselm Lingnau .......................................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Unix is not a `A-ha' experience, it is more of a `holy-shit' experience.
                                    -- Colin McFadyen in alt.folklore.computers
Peter Hastings

Peter Hastings

Oct. 8, 2001, 6:17 p.m. (Message 27787, in reply to message 27778)

> This is not as much of an issue now that we have DanceData...

...but most SCDers don't.

Peter Hastings
Royal Observatory
Edinburgh
:)
Donna Robinson

Donna Robinson

Oct. 10, 2001, 1:50 p.m. (Message 27836, in reply to message 27787)

Hi,

> ...but most SCDers don't.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of dancers do have access to 
the web.  Does anyone have any guesses re this?

Donna
Fyreladdie

Fyreladdie

Oct. 9, 2001, 4:21 p.m. (Message 27819, in reply to message 27778)

In a message dated 10/9/01 7:01:57 AM, xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xx.xx writes:

<< 
However what about the poor composers of the music.  Shouldn't they get
a mention too.  Its easy enough to ask the band to list the tunes they
intend to play as for country dancing there isn't likely to be any
improv. >>

I think that most composers are glad when sheet music has their name attached 
to it. At least the recognition is seen by the band. That is all that's 
required unless someone wishes to record it. That, however, is another issue. 
I devise dances and compose dance music myself and don't feel any need to 
include my name in a program. The MC may choose to mention it but it is not 
required. It would also depend on whether the person made a living writting 
and performing music. Acknowledgement might be more important in that case.

Bob Mc Murtry
Felton, Calif

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