June 13, 2006, 1:01 p.m. (Message 45531)
Hi, just a quick question. I hope it is on topic as it has to do with SCD dances. We do not demonstrate dances but we like to have good time and sometimes on a more festive evening we would like to dress up so that (a) boy(s) wear(s) a kilt and girls wear sashes. Our dancing group has now got hold of Estonian-Scottish tartan and we plan to make sashes for the girls. Is there a rule, how wide a sash should be and HOW it should be worn? Do demo groups always wear it in a similar way? There are many websites and among them I found this one: http://www.clangregor.org/history-tartan-women.html#Wearing%20the%20Sash - which seems to be very strict. Especially if we look at the note, which says: "Members of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society have been granted permission by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, to wear their sashes on the left shoulder. This is an honour bestowed upon the Society because she is their Patron." Does this mean that it is bad manners for non-members (as of yet) to wear a sash on the left shoulder? Humbly yours, Eike from Estonia
June 13, 2006, 1:24 p.m. (Message 45532, in reply to message 45531)
Eike Albert-Unt wrote: > Does this mean that it is bad manners for non-members (as of yet) to wear a > sash on the left shoulder? In a nutshell: Wear your sash whichever way you fancy, unless there is a danger of running into anal-retentive retro-Scots who are sticklers for »the rules«. (This danger mostly exists at highland games in the US of A.) If you are an anal-retentive retro-Scot etc. yourself, wear it on the right shoulder unless you are a clan chief or commanding officer of a Highland regiment, spouse of such, or RSCDS-style country dancer, in which case wear it on the left shoulder. Otherwise you might wrap it round your head in case you encounter the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. There has been lots of discussion in this forum as to exactly why the late Dr Milligan recommended the left shoulder for a lady's sash but as far as I recall we didn't get to the bottom of it. It is best to let common sense rule, such as when you're a formal demonstration team all the sashes should be in the same position (and in Younger Hall, probably on the left shoulder). I have yet to attend an event where ladies had to present their RSCDS cards to prove the appropriateness of their sash shoulder. Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man but deteriorate the cat. -- Mark Twain
June 13, 2006, 2:10 p.m. (Message 45534, in reply to message 45532)
Amen Except - are Bugblatters of scottish descent? You have to come to YOunger Hall these days Anselm - they don't even wear white dresses anymore - although the men still wear kilts :>) Eike - wear it any which way you want - I have started to wrap it round my middle - belt style - hides a multitude of sins {choclate, cream puddings, middleage spreads etc). I once saw a lady in America wear a sash hiding her dress neckline to the front, fastened with two brooches - one on each shoulder - with the ends hanging down her back - that looked fantastic. For dem. purposes, we wear the sash folded - one end longer than the other - gathered with a brooch and fastened to a shoulder - the same side shoulder for all and one end carried over to the opposite side on the back - it looks good when dancing when the end of the sash flows freely behind you. I personally do not like the wrap around style, where you start at a shoulder and cross over the front to end up back at the same shoulder - it is all right if you are flat as a board, but the minute you have curves both in expected and unexpected places - you can bet your last dollar that the sash will sit and emphasize just there. Pia
June 13, 2006, 5:44 p.m. (Message 45538, in reply to message 45534)
Well, I vote for going back to the "old days" when it was O.K. for women to look like women rather than teenage boys, regardless of the sash-wearing question. But the around-the-torso methods may become more popular as the cost of heating goes up, at least in winter... Toodle-pip--Jill in Lyons, NY
June 13, 2006, 5:52 p.m. (Message 45539, in reply to message 45534)
Also, the wrap-around-the-torso style needs a LONGER sash in order to have any long loose end to float gracefully behind as one dances (unless, perhaps, one is constructed like a beanpole). Try it and see. --Jill in Lyons
June 13, 2006, 5:12 p.m. (Message 45537, in reply to message 45532)
Anselm, when were you last at any highland games in the US of A? Harry Ways
June 13, 2006, 1:32 p.m. (Message 45533, in reply to message 45531)
Thank you ;-) Just needed an opinion. We discussed it here and came to think that since it is Estonian-Scottish tartan, then we actually are entitled to wear it on left shoulder as we are members of the clan. :-) If someone of us is married to a foreigner and wants to keep the tartan, then she can wear it on a right shoulder. :-) Cheers! It is almost 30 degrees in Tallinn today! Eike
June 13, 2006, 2:57 p.m. (Message 45536, in reply to message 45531)
No it means it's complete tosh, like a lot of the other houghmagandie associated with shops that sell things to tourists and like to pretend that so called clan chiefs, and miscellaneous royals have some relevance so they can rip you off - wear a colour and style that suits you any way you like. In message <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx.xxx.xx>, Eike Albert-Unt <xxxx.xxxxxx-xxx@xxx.xx> writes >Hi, just a quick question. > >I hope it is on topic as it has to do with SCD dances. We do not demonstrate >dances but we like to have good time and sometimes on a more festive evening >we would like to dress up so that (a) boy(s) wear(s) a kilt and girls wear >sashes. Our dancing group has now got hold of Estonian-Scottish tartan and >we plan to make sashes for the girls. > >Is there a rule, how wide a sash should be and HOW it should be worn? Do >demo groups always wear it in a similar way? There are many websites and >among them I found this one: > >http://www.clangregor.org/history-tartan-women.html#Wearing%20the%20Sash > >- which seems to be very strict. Especially if we look at the note, which >says: "Members of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society have been granted >permission by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, to wear their sashes on the >left shoulder. This is an honour bestowed upon the Society because she is >their Patron." > >Does this mean that it is bad manners for non-members (as of yet) to wear a >sash on the left shoulder? > >Humbly yours, >Eike from Estonia > > > > -- Bryan McAlister
June 13, 2006, 8:30 p.m. (Message 45541, in reply to message 45531)
Eike Albert-Unt wrote: >Hi, just a quick question. > With many, not so quick, answers! > >Is there a rule, how wide a sash should be and HOW it should be worn? Do >demo groups always wear it in a similar way? There are many websites and >among them I found this one: > >http://www.clangregor.org/history-tartan-women.html#Wearing%20the%20Sash > >- which seems to be very strict. > Well, you have to understand how society worked years ago. People had a civil "rank" - a man was not always (nor even usually) a gentleman, and a woman was not the same thing as a lady. The terms "lady" and "gentleman" had a meaning that is now mostly lost. A "normal" man would be a yeoman, while his superior would be a gentleman, typically someone of good education, and often, but not always, of some means as well. Above these people would be those with more formal titles (the peers). Nowadays, these distinctions between people have all but disappeared. It is still seen in the UK, and some countries preserve titles, and others heraldic bearings. But, most democracies treat everyone as equal, and these class distinctions of old no longer hold sway. Thus, in earlier times, people would wear clothing appropriate to their rank, as the website cited shows. This extended to ladies as well, as the chart shows. But, how many even know how to recognize a clan chief, let alone his wife? (The answer - 3 feathers behind his badge, which is also not encircled by a belt). So, what do we do? Well, if you wish to preserve the forms of old, you would wear the sash on the right shoulder, unless you are a country dancer, where you wear it on the left. If you do not care about such things, you could wear them any which way you wish, which seems to be the advice of the majority. Those, whom I suspect might wear feathers in their bonnets, without realizing what they mean. >Does this mean that it is bad manners for non-members (as of yet) to wear a >sash on the left shoulder? > > Some would say yes, others no. It is much like those whom wear a tuxedo to a wedding held in the morning. There is no rule that says they cannot, but custom suggests that it is inappropriate. Customs suggests wearing a sash in an appropriate manner as well, IMHO. You can never be faulted for wearing it correctly, and while most simply do not care, there are those "anal-retentive" people out there (like ME! :) who will notice, even if they may say nothing. Now, as for women wearing kilts.... ;) Chris Collin Ottawa, Canada