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Difference Between Briefing a dance and Recapping a Dance

ParadiseMO

ParadiseMO

March 6, 2006, 2:44 a.m. (Message 44502)

In response to Susi Mayr question about the difference between briefing a  
dance and recapping a dance: Briefing a dance would be the emcee giving  
instructions as you would find them in a dance book: "On bars 1 - 8, first and  
second couples dance rights and lefts.  On bars 9 -16, first couple dances  down 
the middle and up to second place, with second couple stepping up on bars  11 
and 12."
 
Recapping a dance would just give little jogs to the memory: "Rights and  
lefts followed by down the middle and up".
 
DOUG SCHNEIDER
Highland Mist Scottish Country Dancers
St. Louis Missouri/Illinois USA
redrose_solutions

redrose_solutions

March 6, 2006, 11:07 a.m. (Message 44508, in reply to message 44502)

Thanks for the explanation. It makes me wonder, however, why you feel the
need to have both breifing and recap. I would consider a recap sufficient
at a social event/ball, especially if the programme is published in advance
of the event itself. As Jim Healy says, why waste valuable dancing time?

Susi



>-- Original Message --
>From: xxxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx
>Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:44:24 EST
>To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
>Subject: Difference Between Briefing a dance and Recapping a Dance
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>
>
>In response to Susi Mayr question about the difference between briefing
a
>
>dance and recapping a dance: Briefing a dance would be the emcee giving
0AM7L@SIA

0AM7L@SIA

March 7, 2006, 5:49 p.m. (Message 44526, in reply to message 44508)

>The answer is:   Because presumably not everyone is local thus hasn't had the
luxury of practicing those dances exclusively for weeks ahead of time.  If
Branches want non-locals to attend events, they must take them into
consideration.   If they don't want to 'waste valuable time' briefing or walking
dances for the benefit of non-locals, then they shouldn't promote the event via
flyers mailed to other branches, on their websites, handouts on tables at other
balls, etc.  You can't have it both ways:   You either earn your Branch some
income off out-of-towners--in which case you must consider them--or you don't.

Margaret Sarna
Michigan



Thanks for the explanation. It makes me wonder, however, why you feel the
Andrew Buxton

Andrew Buxton

March 7, 2006, 6:26 p.m. (Message 44528, in reply to message 44526)

Here in Sussex, there is a dance happening somewhere almost every
Saturday.  We can't possibly practise in class every dance on every
programme even once (despite quite a lot of overlap between
programmes) and someone wanting to go to one of those may well be
unable to attend the particular class when it's practised.  So I don't
think it's fair to expect that people going to events will be fully
confident of every dance.
   
  We've discussed the difficulty for visitors of getting partners (and
  a place in a set) for each dance.  If you have to check Pilling or a
  printed briefing in the gap between dances there's even less chance
  of getting in.  If you know there's going to be a briefing you can
  have more confidence in asking someone.
   
  Andrew Buxton
  Brighton, UK

Don & Margaret Sarna <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
  >The answer is: Because presumably not everyone is local thus hasn't had the
luxury of practicing those dances exclusively for weeks ahead of time. If
Branches want non-locals to attend events, they must take them into
consideration. 
		
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Ian Brockbank

Ian Brockbank

March 8, 2006, 11:17 a.m. (Message 44561, in reply to message 44528)

Andrew Buxton wrote:

> Here in Sussex, there is a dance happening somewhere almost 
> every Saturday.  We can't possibly practise in class every 
> dance on every programme even once (despite quite a lot of 
> overlap between programmes) and someone wanting to go to one 
> of those may well be unable to attend the particular class 
> when it's practised.  So I don't think it's fair to expect 
> that people going to events will be fully confident of every dance.
>    
>   We've discussed the difficulty for visitors of getting 
> partners (and a place in a set) for each dance.  If you have 
> to check Pilling or a printed briefing in the gap between 
> dances there's even less chance of getting in.  If you know 
> there's going to be a briefing you can have more confidence 
> in asking someone.

That's an argument for a recap.  It's not an argument for reading
out the full text of the instructions.  If they can't get it from
a brief recap, they won't get it from the full text.

I don't know if we're arguing different things here.  The original
posting had the instructions given twice before the dance started,
and the subsequent explanation implied the first set of instructions
was a full teach of the dance.  To me that's overkill.  It's too
much to take in all at once, and it won't stop me going wrong.  A
quick recap should be enough for people to go "oh yes".  If they
need more then I really doubt that any amount of talking will do,
and they'll have to rely on the rest of the set.  If instructions
can be sent out in advance, that would allow people to do some
swotting (if the information goes in that way for them).

Of course there may be one or two more complicated or less well
known dances on the programme which do merit a bit more.  But these
should be the exception.  (If they're the rule, then the group needs
to rethink its programmes...)

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
http://www.scottishdance.net/
Anselm Lingnau

Anselm Lingnau

March 8, 2006, 12:18 p.m. (Message 44563, in reply to message 44561)

Ian Brockbank wrote:

> I don't know if we're arguing different things here.  The original
> posting had the instructions given twice before the dance started,
> and the subsequent explanation implied the first set of instructions
> was a full teach of the dance.  To me that's overkill.  It's too
> much to take in all at once, and it won't stop me going wrong.

I also think this is strange.

IMHO, the full written instructions for a dance should never be read aloud -- 
not in class and definitely not in a social situation. They're much too 
tedious for that! Their place is on the teacher's desk when he or she 
prepares their lesson, and their purpose is to communicate to the teacher how 
the dance is meant to go, so they can figure out how to explain it to the 
class -- often preferably by way of demonstration rather than reading out 
chapter and verse, and not necessarily from the beginning of the dance 
straight through to the end.

If you're a computer person, think of full dance descriptions as assembly 
code. They are necessary to communicate to others exactly what is going on, 
but they are not usually what one wants to think »in« during the creative 
process. When I make up a dance, I usually think in terms of movements of 
imaginary people in my head (or squares and circles on a piece of paper), 
like »the dancing couple goes down the middle and up and the 2s move up«. 
Only when I have arrived at something that appears workable as a dance I try 
to translate that to formal SCD-speak, as in »9-16: 1st couple lead down the 
middle and up (2nd couple move up on 11-12)«.

Anselm
-- 
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
In the arithmetic of love, one plus one equals everything, and two minus one
equals nothing.                                           -- Ninon de L'Enclos
SMiskoe

SMiskoe

March 7, 2006, 6:21 p.m. (Message 44527, in reply to message 44502)

There are 6+ dance parties all within driving distance in the space of  about 
4 months. 16 dances per party, that's 96 dances to be learned by  heart.  Not 
possible.  Perhaps there are some repeats but not  many.  This is why we need 
briefings and recaps.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord NH USA
0AM7L@SIA

0AM7L@SIA

March 7, 2006, 6:56 p.m. (Message 44529, in reply to message 44527)

>Thankyouthankyouthankyou.  Our sentiments exactly.

Margaret

 There are 6+ dance parties all within driving distance in the space of
about 4 months. 16 dances per party, that's 96 dances to be learned by
heart.  Not possible.  Perhaps there are some repeats but not  many.  This
is why we need briefings and recaps.
mlamontbrown

mlamontbrown

March 7, 2006, 7:17 p.m. (Message 44531, in reply to message 44527)

While I have no objection to a brief re-cap, I really cannot see the justification
for anything more. Presumably it is possible to get hold of the programme, and the
instructions, before going to the dance - what is wrong in putting in a little
homework, or even learning the dances while travelling to the dance?

How many teachers and MCs have given in to a request to walk a dance, and thought
"that was a complete waste of time" as people still go wrong? (give right hand
instead of left, cast up instead of down, etc.)

Yes the out-of-towners need to be looked after, but if that's because there are a lot
of home-grown dances on the programme then perhaps that is the fault of the programme
compiler.
Making everyone stand through a detailed description of a dance they already know is
as bad as making people dance an unknown dance without any help.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> [mailto:strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx] On Behalf
Of
0AM7L@SIA

0AM7L@SIA

March 9, 2006, 3:13 a.m. (Message 44595, in reply to message 44527)

>Thankyouthankyouthankyou.  Our sentiments exactly.

Margaret Sarna
Michigan

 There are 6+ dance parties all within driving distance in the space of
about 4 months. 16 dances per party, that's 96 dances to be learned by
heart.  Not possible.  Perhaps there are some repeats but not  many.  This
is why we need briefings and recaps.
Pia Walker

Pia Walker

March 9, 2006, 10:21 a.m. (Message 44599, in reply to message 44595)

And if we are to bring in much younger people, who presumably work during
the week and therefore do not have the time or the inclination to memorize
said dances, then briefing and recaps are necessary too.

Here a lot of dances are on Fridays and I certainly can not be bothered
going to dances where I have to think after a week which start at 8 and goes
on until sometimes 6 or 7 o'clock every day.

Pia
redrose_solutions

redrose_solutions

March 7, 2006, 9:44 p.m. (Message 44537, in reply to message 44502)

I agree with Malcom that a succint re-cap is fine (I'm not arguing in favour
of no recaps at all - at the moment).

A more detailed briefing would be OK if a dance is new, perhaps written for
a special occasion, and is being taught to everyone in the room for the first
time (this happened with Napier's Index at the Sydney Branch 50th Anniversary
Ball a few years ago). Or perhaps for a very "local" dance when the organising
Branch or group is aware of a large number of out-of-towners wanting to join
in.

I would certainly want to know the programme and ideally have instructions
or source references for any unusual or local dances in advance. I would
also be prepared to put some effort into learning some, though not necessarily
all, of the dances unknown to me, and also to sit out anything I didn't know
or didn't feel confident about.

However, I fail to see why one would need both a briefing and a recap of
the same dance, one more or less immediately after the other, all the way
through an evening's programme. Perhaps this is a reflection of an underlying
cultural /educational difference between the UK/Europe and North America?


Susi

Susi Mayr
Vienna, Austria
xxxx@xxxxxxx.xx.xx

>-- Original Message --
>From: "mlamontbrown" <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>To: "'SCD news and discussion'" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:17:03 -0000
>Subject: RE: Difference Between Briefing a dance and Recapping a Dance
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>
>
>While I have no objection to a brief re-cap, I really cannot see the justification
>for anything more. Presumably it is possible to get hold of the programme,
>and the
>instructions, before going to the dance - what is wrong in putting in a
little
>homework, or even learning the dances while travelling to the dance?
>
>How many teachers and MCs have given in to a request to walk a dance, and
>thought
>"that was a complete waste of time" as people still go wrong? (give right
>hand
>instead of left, cast up instead of down, etc.)
>
>Yes the out-of-towners need to be looked after, but if that's because there
>are a lot
>of home-grown dances on the programme then perhaps that is the fault of
the
>programme
>compiler.
>Making everyone stand through a detailed description of a dance they already
>know is
>as bad as making people dance an unknown dance without any help.
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> [mailto:strathspey-bounces-mlamontbrown=xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx]
>On Behalf
>Of
>> xxxxxxx@xxx.xxx
>> Sent: 07 March 2006 17:22
>> To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> Subject: Re: Difference Between Briefing a dance and Recapping a Dance
>>
>> There are 6+ dance parties all within driving distance in the space of
> about
>> 4 months. 16 dances per party, that's 96 dances to be learned by  heart.
> Not
>> possible.  Perhaps there are some repeats but not  many.  This is why
we
Alasdair Graham

Alasdair Graham

March 7, 2006, 10:36 p.m. (Message 44538, in reply to message 44537)

Summer dancing in Alva (near Stirling, Scotland) is held for 12 weeks during 
each summer with a different programme each week and 20 dances on the 
programme.  There are no recaps.
Similarly the twice monthly Castle Club Dances in Stirling during the winter 
months have no recaps.

In both cases a booklet is issued in advance containing the names of the 
dances, and source for each, for every evening's dancing.
These venues are generally full (nine sets or more in the smaller winter 
venue) and the dancers attending are able to complete the dances without any 
problem.  What you find is the more confident dancers are usually in the top 
sets with the less confident towards the bottom of the rows.
At these venues dancers form up immediately after the preceding dance.

At dances in the Helensburgh, Glasgow and Ayr Branch areas a brief recap is 
given for each dance.
Dancers do not form sets before the dance is called at these events, as a 
general rule.  However, again the more confident dancers form up nearer the 
top of the rows and therefore the bands will see the same people most of the 
time.

I have noticed one or two sets which prefer to dance within their own group, 
one set comprises 'birlers' and another a 'self help' group who manage 
better when dancing together.  The vast majority dance with different 
partners each dance.

There is a saying here "he who pays the piper calls the tune" and if bands 
are accepting money to play at venues where they do not like the customs 
then perhaps they should refuse the bookings.

Alasdair Graham
Dumbarton, Scotland.

For those who indulge in pedantic corrections see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic
SMiskoe

SMiskoe

March 7, 2006, 11:11 p.m. (Message 44539, in reply to message 44502)

So, I am a tourist with 15 years' dance experience.  I arrive in a  town, ask 
at the desk where I can find dancing, am told of a dance and rush off  after 
dinner.  It won't be a very good experience if there is no briefing  because I 
have been expected to look at the program in advance, or purchase a  crib 
book in advance.
And I will be a tourist hunting for some dancing in June.
I also remember an evening in Hopetoun House, one of my first experiences  of 
a Scottish evening (but I had lots of experience dancing).  I was 4th  couple 
for Kingussie Flower.  I had a nodding acquaintance with the dance  and I 
felt that as 4th woman, with an experienced partner, I would be ok.   I remember 
everyone in the set reading their cribs, almost continuously, and not  one 
couple was able to complete the dance without a mistake.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
Anselm Lingnau

Anselm Lingnau

March 7, 2006, 11:22 p.m. (Message 44541, in reply to message 44502)

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> While I have no objection to a brief re-cap, I really cannot see the
> justification for anything more. Presumably it is possible to get hold of
> the programme, and the instructions, before going to the dance - what is
> wrong in putting in a little homework, or even learning the dances while
> travelling to the dance?

I'm absolutely on Malcolm's side here. I'd also say that if the dances on a 
program require extensive explanations and walk-throughs then perhaps they 
should not have been on the program to start with.

The other thing is that for a re-cap to be worth the time it needs to be 
helpful. I have had occasion to listen to many re-caps that were a complete 
and utter waste of breath simply because they left everyone in more of a 
muddle than before. If it is all right to require dancers to do their 
homework in advance, this must apply even more so to those who are supposed 
to give the re-caps -- yet many re-cappers either appear to be seeing the 
dance description in question for the first time in their lives when they're 
up on the stage to give the re-cap, or else seem to harbour the delusion that 
the full original dance description from the book, read out verbatim, forms a 
suitable re-cap for that dance (to name but two phenomena commonly 
encountered).

On a different tack: I may have said this before, but the SCD group in Münster 
(in Westphalia) operates an interesting system at their annual ball: 
Obviously one cannot ask whether walk-throughs are desired on a 
dance-by-dance basis, as there will be people who will absolutely insist on 
walking through the »Linton Ploughman«. So at the entrance everyone is given 
a number of little sticky dots (like 3), which they can then put beside the 
dances on a huge copy of the ball programme (stuck on a nearby wall) that 
they are most desperate to walk through. The top few dances (like 3) with 
most dots nearby are the ones that will be walked through.

Anselm
-- 
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.        -- Margaret Atwood
Chris1Ronald

Chris1Ronald

March 8, 2006, 4:50 p.m. (Message 44570, in reply to message 44502)

Malcolm  Brown wrote:

> While I have no objection to a brief re-cap, I really  cannot see the
> justification for anything more. Presumably it is  possible to get hold of
> the programme, and the instructions, before  going to the dance - what is
> wrong in putting in a little homework, or  even learning the dances while
> travelling to the  dance?

Anselm (in Germany) and others (in the UK, Austria, Monaco,....) endorsed  
this comment, while some comments from the US seem to be going the other  way.  
Someone said that there could be a cultural  difference, related to the way 
children are educated. 
 
Maybe.  But I wouldn't want the impression to get around that, over  this 
side of the pond, dancers aren't willing or able to study a  briefing booklet, or 
look up a dance in Pilling, or google it  up on the internet.
 
When I began dancing SCD in earnest (in New York) I would spend hours  before 
a dance studying the briefing booklet, using red and white dice to help  me 
figure out what the instructions meant.  (I have five red dice for the  women, 
and five white dice for the men, so I can cope with any dance up to  five 
couples.)   Plus I could talk to other dancers and discuss  any queries I had, and 
maybe walk through some tricky bits, plus sometimes  there were official 
walk-throughs in the afternoon beforehand,  plus sometimes the weekend teachers 
would teach a dance  in class.  I need these props less now, but I do always 
study the  booklet - or look up the dances in the various ways that are open to 
all of  us.   
 
In short, by the time a ball or dance finally arrives, all I want and all I  
expect is a crisp and accurate reminder of how the dance goes.  A  short 
briefing or recap, in other words.  (These terms, along with that of  
'talk-through' are synonymous to me.)   
 
Frankly, I feel I owe it to my fellow dancers to study the dances as well  as 
I can before a dance.   And I can confirm that there are  many dancers on 
this side of the Atlantic, including renowned teachers (native  American born as 
well as UK-born), who lament the trend towards long  and repetitive "briefs" 
and in fact are quite militant about it.  They  feel it discourages 
self-reliance, and helps perpetuate a vicious  circle of dancers not being well prepared 
and MCs providing longer and  longer "briefs".  
 
By the way, Anselm, that sticky dots idea seems rather neat.  I  might try it 
sometime.
 
Chris (New York)

Anselm wrote "everyone is given 
a number of little sticky dots (like  3), which they can then put beside the 
dances on a huge copy of the ball  programme (stuck on a nearby wall) that 
they are most desperate to walk  through. The top few dances (like 3) with 
most dots nearby are the ones that  will be walked through."
Patricia Ruggiero

Patricia Ruggiero

March 8, 2006, 5:05 p.m. (Message 44571, in reply to message 44570)

Chris wrote:
  
> In short, by the time a ball or dance finally arrives, all I 
> want and all I  
> expect is a crisp and accurate reminder of how the dance 
> goes.  A  short 
> briefing or recap, in other words. 
>  
> Frankly, I feel I owe it to my fellow dancers to study the 
> dances as well  as 
> I can before a dance.

Well said, Chris.  I'll add that it's my experience that if one doesn't know
a complicated dance before the briefing, one is not likely to learn it from
same; therefore, long and detailed briefings (a contradiction in terms) are
not of benefit to those who don't know the dance, while being an irritant to
those who do.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia USA
Christina France

Christina France

March 9, 2006, 10:50 a.m. (Message 44600, in reply to message 44502)

Pia and All,
	I agree a recap is very welcomed after a weeks hard work and all you
want to do is relax.
	Christina

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