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Loch Leven Castle

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  • ...

    Martin.Sheffield Oct. 18, 2001, 11:37 a.m. (Message 27921)

    Malcolm mentioned Loch Leven Castle, a dance that had not been easy to
    learn, apparently. It is not a dance I am familiar with, so I had a look at
    it in bk 21.
    I noticed that 1st & 2nd couples are expected to finish a ladies' chain in
    positions other than those in which they began. 
    Then, after a 2 couple promenade, the men have to change places in 2 bars,
    while the ladies ... smile, hop up & down on the spot, wait patiently for
    their lord & master to return, or stifle a yawn?
    This is what I call a flawed dance, with unsatisfactory transitions and
    nothing particular to recommend it.
    Why does anyone in the RSCDS bother to teach it, when there are so many
    other interesting choreographies to be tried?
    
    (In case anyone is getting ready to write back and tell me that the Manual
    tells you what to do after the ladies' chain, I'll add that, when one
    couple has to cover more ground than the other in what should normally be a
    balanced symmetrical figure, there is something wrong. The imbalance is
    even greater, if, referring to the Manual's diagrams for a ladies' chain,
    the dancers have performed a skewed diagonal chain that takes them even
    farther from where they are supposed to finish in Loch Leven.  
    
    What is the latest official take on ladies' chain, by the way? Are the men
    expected to dance as the words tell us, or as the diagrams show us?)
    Martin,
     in Grenoble, France.
    
     http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
                  (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
  • ...

    Loren Wright Oct. 18, 2001, 4:46 p.m. (Message 27929, in reply to message 27921)

    > Then, after a 2 couple promenade, the men have to change places in 2 bars,
    > while the ladies ... smile, hop up & down on the spot, wait patiently for
    > their lord & master to return, or stifle a yawn?
    
    I don't think this is any worse for the women than the itsy bitsy steps that
    men regularly have to execute in promenades, allemandes, and knots.
    
    > This is what I call a flawed dance, with unsatisfactory transitions and
    > nothing particular to recommend it.
    > Why does anyone in the RSCDS bother to teach it, when there are so many
    > other interesting choreographies to be tried?
    
    I think the biggest reason that people want to teach and dance it is the
    music!  Somehow the inconveniences of the choreography seem worth it.
    Perhaps someone should write a different dance to the same music?
    
    Loren Wright
    Nashua, NH
  • ...

    Martin.Sheffield Oct. 18, 2001, 5:43 p.m. (Message 27930, in reply to message 27929)

    Loren wrote:
    
    >I think the biggest reason that people want to teach and dance it is the
    >music!  
    
    >Perhaps someone should write a different dance to the same music?
    >
    
    Is that a challenge?
    
    OK, Alan, prepare your data base for a whole bunch of new dances all with
    the same title.
    
    What recording is there of this music?
  • ...

    Alan Paterson Oct. 18, 2001, 6:23 p.m. (Message 27932, in reply to message 27930)

    M Sheffield wrote:
    > 
    > Loren wrote:
    > 
    > >I think the biggest reason that people want to teach and dance it is the
    > >music!
    > 
    > >Perhaps someone should write a different dance to the same music?
    > >
    > 
    > Is that a challenge?
    > 
    > OK, Alan, prepare your data base for a whole bunch of new dances all with
    > the same title.
    > 
    > What recording is there of this music?
    
    
    Go to http://www.strathspey.org/dd/dance/3862/view and you will see a list of
    all recordings.
    
    Alan
  • ...

    Martin.Sheffield Oct. 18, 2001, 5:49 p.m. (Message 27931, in reply to message 27929)

    Loren wrote:
    
    >I think the biggest reason that people want to teach and dance it is the
    >music!  
    
    >Perhaps someone should write a different dance to the same music?
    >
    
    Is that a challenge?
    
    OK, Alan, prepare your data base for a whole bunch of new dances all with
    the same title.
    
    What recording is there of this music?
    
    Martin,
     in Grenoble, France.
    
     http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
                  (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
  • ...

    Norah Link Oct. 18, 2001, 7:21 p.m. (Message 27935, in reply to message 27921)

    > I think the biggest reason that people want to teach and 
    > dance it is the
    > music!  Somehow the inconveniences of the choreography seem worth it.
    > Perhaps someone should write a different dance to the same music?
    
    
    I absolutely agree.  Our branch has tried this dance a few times, and almost
    everyone simply found it hard slogging without enough of a payoff.  I know
    that when I was the one who selected it, it was for the music.
    
    So, this week I am planning to teach Netherby Hall.  I don't have a
    recording of the recommended tunes (at least not in anything x32, and not in
    AABB as John Drewry suggests) - so have been looking for a suitable
    alternate recording.  Last night I pulled out Loch Leven Castle and listened
    to it:  appropriately dark and textured, and AABB!  I have it on my
    programme for tomorrow night - will let you know what the class thinks of
    it!
    
    Norah Link (Montreal, QC)
  • ...

    SMiskoe Oct. 20, 2001, 6:24 p.m. (Message 27942, in reply to message 27921)

    Loch Leven Castle does indeed have a great tune.  There are lots of great 
    tunes out there but they are tied with less than stellar dances.  Conversely, 
    there are lots of nice dances but the tune is a dog.  One of the SCD styles 
    is that each tune has its own tune but then after one repetition you may go 
    onto another tune.  English dance style has one tune for each dance but you 
    never change.  Contra dance style has what ever tune the band wants for that 
    dance at that moment.  There are plus and minus for each style.  I am going 
    to stick my neck out and say that sometimes one should be able to deviate 
    from tradition/style and at least try a different tune, just to see if it 
    works.  There are tunes that are a perfect match for a dance but there are 
    lots of generic tunes that are totally good in most situations.  Why flog a 
    dance that isn't much fun just to dance to a special tune?  Try a nicer dance.
    Cheers,
    sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
  • ...

    Doug Mills Oct. 22, 2001, 10:32 p.m. (Message 27953, in reply to message 27921)

    M Sheffield wrote:
    
    > This is what I call a flawed dance, with unsatisfactory transitions and
    > nothing particular to recommend it.
    > Why does anyone in the RSCDS bother to teach it, when there are so many
    > other interesting choreographies to be tried?
    
    Not all dances are created perfect (except, and I know Martin will agree, maybe
    Red House), but I put Loch Levan Castle in the "challanging" category.
    
    LLC is not some frightening 224 bar memory test, nor is it a "follow your nose"
    type dance, but just because it requires a bit of thought and technique does
    not make it a bad dance.  Most of us really enjoy Cadgers even though the man
    has an awkward entry to the 2nd reel, no matter which shoulder he pulls back,
    so difficult changes of direction need not diminish a dances popularity.
    
    Perhaps you wouldn't put it LLC a Social program, but I have taught it to
    Advanced classes and they generally enjoy the challange of overcoming it's
    foibles.
    
    Anyway, the music is great, especially if you can get the old Tim Wright (I
    think) recording.
    
    Cheers
    
    Doug Mills
    Christchurch NZ
  • ...

    Brian Charlton Oct. 23, 2001, 1:23 a.m. (Message 27955, in reply to message 27953)

    G'Day, All,
    
    Doug Mills made the following comment in reply to Martin Sheffield's
    comments about Loch Leven Castle.
    
    >Not all dances are created perfect (except, and I know Martin >will agree,
    maybe Red House), but I put Loch Levan Castle
    >in the "challanging" category.
    
    Of course, Red House is a flawed dance as well. Musically I am told it
    should be 48 bars and the English Country Dance version has that form.
    
    Not that the flaw destroys the pleasure of doing Red House in the (flawed)
    SCD form.
    
    Grins from me!
    
    Brian Charlton
    Sydney, Australia.

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