strathspey Archive: Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Previous thread: Summer dancing
Next thread: Ardbrae Homepage!

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9483 · Ken McFarland · 2 Nov 1997 01:33:56 · Top

Malcolm from York wrote:
>It is because of such things that I have decided to replace all our
>RSCDS books with the latest editions - then if I get any surprises
>I go back to the old one to see what has been changed; for example the
>Tune for Red House has now been arranged to fit the dance.

I for one would like some clarification on this. You mean that the wonderful
old tune that I've enjoyed for many years is now out? Or is this another
case of the Society catching up to what the musicians have been doing? (a la
the tune for Montgomeries?)

I would really hate to think that the superb tune is gone. Even if there was
an extra 8 bars at the end, it was such a delightful piece of music. Infact,
if I were called on to name the most exciting reel ever recorded on vinyl,
it might very well be the Berkeley Scottish Players version of Red House,
which I'm pretty sure used the original music. (Anyone else remember that
recording with pleasure?)

Ken McFarland
Fairbanks, Alaska

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9485 · Malcolm and Helen Brown · 2 Nov 1997 12:32:03 · Top

Ken McFarland wrote asking for clarification regarding changes to the tune
for Red House:

The dance is of the form A BB CC

The tune as printed in the 1950 edition of Book 7 is shown as AA BB C
i.e. in the copy we purchased in 1971 at St Andrews.
(And this is how it is played on the Rob Gordon "Caledonian Ball" record.)

The tune as printed in the 1986 edition is shown as A BB CC.
(And this is how it is played on both the Berkely Players record, and
the RSCDS Book 7 recording).

The trouble is that changes to "Well Known Facts" are not very easy to
correct / publicise. (Who wants to shout that the original arrangement
for Book 7 was wrong? - the 1950 edition probably just reproduced the
music from the original edition of the book, published say 10 years
after the Society was formed. However all those really experienced
dancers who danced to pianists playing the tune as written pre 1986
will "know" that the tune for Red House as published is "not right")

Malcolm Brown (York)


--
_ _
|_|_ |_| Malcolm & Helen Brown - m.brown@netcomuk.co.uk (NETCOM Internet Dial-Up)
_ |_|_
|_| _|_| Connecting via NETCOM Internet Ltd
|_|

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9486 · Richard Ward · 2 Nov 1997 18:41:34 · Top

I remember reading somewhere - I think it may have been in one of Hush
Foss' pamphlets - that the original dance was AA BB CC, where the
original first 16 bars have been compressed into 8 bars. (my printed
sources are about 500 miles from where I am at the moment, so I cannot
check the details). We danced the AA BB CC version to AA BB CC music for
a demonstration once, and liked it better than the abridged version.

Susi Mayr
susi.mayr@beasys.de
usually in Vienna (Austria)
sometimes Munich (Germany)
now London (England)

>
> The dance is of the form A BB CC
>
> The tune as printed in the 1950 edition of Book 7 is shown as AA BB C
> i.e. in the copy we purchased in 1971 at St Andrews.
> (And this is how it is played on the Rob Gordon "Caledonian Ball" record.)
>
> The tune as printed in the 1986 edition is shown as A BB CC.
> (And this is how it is played on both the Berkely Players record, and
> the RSCDS Book 7 recording).
>

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9489 · SMiskoe · 2 Nov 1997 22:57:18 · Top

I looked up the English version of Red House in The Barnes Book and found it
to be a 48 bar tune, AABBCC. I don't know the differences between the SCD Red
House and the English Red House.
Cheers,
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9493 · Anselm Lingnau · 3 Nov 1997 09:22:20 · Top

Sylvia Miskoe <SMiskoe@aol.com> writes:

> I looked up the English version of Red House in The Barnes Book and found it
> to be a 48 bar tune, AABBCC. I don't know the differences between the SCD
> Red House and the English Red House.

Red House is one of those dances that go back all the way to Playford's
_Compleat_English_Dancing_Master_. If I remember correctly, the Playford
instructions are something like

1-4 1st couple set to partner twice
5-8 1st couple cast off into 2nd place
9-12 1st couple set to partner twice
13-16 1st couple cast up into 1st place

(apply RSCDS-to-Playford terminology filter to instructions above) and
from then on it goes on as usual. Apparently somebody thought that this
was too much of a good thing and shortened this bit into 8 bars.

I think this is explained in Foss' _Notes_on_Evolution_ or Thurston's
_Scotland's_Dances_ -- both books are sitting on the shelf at home and
so I can't check back right now.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lingnau@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
Lord, grant that we may always be right -- for thou knowest we'll never change
our minds. --- Old Scottish Prayer

Changed Red House tune (was Isle of Skye)

Message 9506 · Andrew Patterson · 4 Nov 1997 01:34:33 · Top

In-Reply-To: <345D1D69.4A46@beasys.de>
> I remember reading somewhere - I think it may have been in one of Hush
> Foss' pamphlets - that the original dance was AA BB CC, where the
> original first 16 bars have been compressed into 8 bars. (my printed
> sources are about 500 miles from where I am at the moment, so I cannot
> check the details). We danced the AA BB CC version to AA BB CC music for
> a demonstration once, and liked it better than the abridged version.
>
> Susi Mayr

Yes, a Hugh Foss pamphlet gives the original (Playford) 48-bar version of
Red House. In the first 8 bars 1C set twice and cast to 2nd place. In
the next 8 bars they set and cast back again.

Hugh Thurston also mentions this, but has further comments on the music.
Apparently, the syncopation (the first bar being crotchet, minim,
crotchet) does not go well with modern Scottish steps. Well, it sounds OK
to me.

Andy London(UK)

Previous thread: Summer dancing
Next thread: Ardbrae Homepage!
A Django site.