strathspey Archive: Advance and Retire

Dear Kent & Courtney,

(Just what I needed, another mystery). I've done a cursory look through some
of my books and am fascinated to discover no reference whatever to advance
and retire as a figure. All three editions of Thomas Wilson's "Analysis of
Country Dancing" (1808, 1811 & 1822) mention "Retreat and Advance" but not
advance and retire. As he describes the figure (with my notes in
parentheses) "The Ladies at A B F (in his diagram these are the sideline
positions) join hands and retreat to a b c, while the Gentlemen at D E F
(similarly, sideline positions for the men) join hands and retreat to f e d,
the Ladies and Gentlemen then advance and meet at G H I (which acorrding to
the diagram takes them to the middle of the set) and return to their places,
which finishes the figure."

This sounds more like the ECD figure The Double, where the dancers move
backward, or forward, and return to original places, rather than siding.
Nowhere in Wilson is there a reference to siding, or even another figure of
a different name but with a similar movement. I also checked Nicholas Dukes,
1752, and Matthew Welch, 1767 and could find no description of Advance and
Retire, The Double, or Siding.

So where did Advance and Retire come from? Interestingly enough, Eugenia
Callander Sharp's "Index of Formations" doesn't consider A & R as a distinct
figure. It would take me a while to go through Napier's list of dances with
A & R to see if there is any pattern to the sources, but a quick glance does
suggest that many of them are indigenous to Scotland, i.e. not adapted from
English dance sources. Can anyone more familiar with ECD tell us if the
figure exists there? I know of ECDances where dancers set advancing to
corner, or partner, and retire turning single. While that does seem to be a
different figure it certainly gives you more activity than a simple retire
back to place and accomplishes the same movement.

No answers here, but some information for further exploration. I do find
siding, and the above described set advancing, retire turning single, to be
charming figures and more satisfying to execute than the SCD four bar A & R,
but I have my doubts that we'll ever fit them in comfortably to (modern) SCD
styling. After all, just look at what happened to "The Guidman of Balangigh"
when it was translated from English into Scottish . . .

Marjorie McLaughlin
RSCDS SD@aol.com

A couple of additional dances with "retire and advance" are to be found
in the Bodleian MS (1740), published by Jack McConachie as "SCD of the 18th
Century". I don't have my copy at hand, but if memory serves, The Lads of Leith
and The Shire of Ayr both involve variations of this figure: in at least one
of these dances, it becomes an Advance and Retire but performed facing out
from the set, so you'd presumably get face-to-face interaction with dancers
in neighbouring sets rather than with your own partner (not easily
accommodated to today's crowded ballrooms!).

[I can't comment on how these dances are described in the original MS;
I have heard that McConachie took some editorial liberties in arranging the
dances for publication, and maybe other subscribers have seen the original
wording and can explicate this matter.]

Alan Twhigg
San Francisco Branch

In a message dated 4/3/97 9:56:38 AM, Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

>...but I have my doubts that we'll ever fit them in comfortably to (modern)
SCD
>styling. After all, just look at what happened to "The Guidman of
Balangigh"
>when it was translated from English into Scottish . . .

Ack! A cliff hanger!

Okay, I have to know -- just what did happen to "The Guidman of Balangigh"
when it was translated from English into Scottish?

~~~
Terry Barron
San Jose, CA

Advance and Retire isn't in any of the Playfords (the extent
of my knowledge of ECD). I also don't recall it in any ECD
i've been to...

The origin of "Advance and Retire" might be a good question to ask
on "rec.folk-dancing". The figure is quite common in Contra dance and
American Square dancing, both of which heavily derive from
Scottish Country and Irish Ceili/Set dancing.

-- joe
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Terry, a lot happened and none of it good.

The Geud Man of Ballangigh from _The Playford Ball_ Keller and Shimer 1990

A1 1-4 1st couple lead down between 2nd couple and cast back to place.
5-8 Two men lead out between women and cast back to place.
A2 1-4 2nd couple lead up between 1st couple and cast down to place.
5-8 Two women lead out between men and cast back to place.
B1 1-4 1st man set forward to 2nd woman {who does not set}, and turn single
to right
back to place.
5-8 1st woman the same to 2nd man.
B2 1-4 Circle four-hands half-way and fall back in lines, improper and
progressed.
5-8 Partners set forward (5-6), and change places passing right shoulder
(7-8).

1. Scottish has nothing resembling _Turn single_ which is a small circle danced
by an individual using a _double step_ which is three steps and close. (R L R
close)

The Guidman of Balangigh from RSCDS Bk30

1-4 1st couple with nearer hands joined dance down between 2nd couple and
cast up to original places.

5-8 1st and 2nd men dance between 1st and 2nd women, cast round own partner
then
cross over to original places.

9-12 1st and 2nd women repeat bars 5-8 dancing between 1st and 2nd men.

13-16 2nd couple dance up between 1st couple and cast off to original places.

17-20 1st man and 2nd woman advance toward each other, then pulling right
shoulder
back, return to places (4 p d b)

21-24 1st woman and 2nd man repeat bars 17-20.

25-28 1st and 2nd couples four hands half round to opposite sides (4 sk ch).

29-32 2nd and 1st couples set to partners and cross over to own sides giving
right hands.

A) The sequence of lead throughs has changed- and the flow is broken.
In the Eng. version there is always a dancer connecting one lead through and
the next.
1M 1W; 1M 2M; 2M 2W; 2W 1W Very nice! But not in "our" version.

B) The English change from setting step to walking step for the "Turn Single".
1) The Scots don't have a Turn Single (which is a great move IMO).
All it would be is two (2) skip change either round by the right,
in a
small circle, ending back in place or 2 sk ch, pulling right
shoulder
back, returning to place (i.e. a cast).
2) P d b through out doesn't work during bars 17-24! It doesn't feel
good, looks
horrible- I've never seen an elegant example of this move.
3) Half a Circle in FOUR skip change steps? Ya sure! They could, at the
very least, have retained the "fall back in lines (read retire
for two).
(Again, IMO, a very elegant use of excess time).

The Scottish version of this dance is an example of Darwinism at work. When was
the last time you danced this one? I danced it only once, the year it was
published and our group went through the new book trying the dances out. And
this isn't English dance snobbery at work. None of our "purists" have done it
since then either.

Peter M Price
New Haven CT
103500.1357@compuserve.com

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The easiest way to eat crow is while it is still warm. The
colder it gets, the harder it is to swaller!
Texas Bix Bender
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Marjorie wrote:

> It would take me a while to go through Napier's list of dances with
>A & R to see if there is any pattern to the sources, but a quick >
glance ...

I have the Napier index as a fully normalised database. I can produce a
list of dances containing A & R if anyone would like such a thing.

Alan

alan@paranor.ch

On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:35:05 -0500 (EST) RSCDSSD@aol.com writes:

> Can anyone more familiar with ECD tell us if the figure exists there?

Marjorie, (Hi there!)

I can't think of many ECD dances that have advance and retire, however
here are two old ones:

Dance #1 in Playford 1651 is the 3 couple set dance Upon A Summer's Day:

"The men take all hands, and the women hands meet all a D [a
double]. back again."

Likewise, a few pages later in the dance Greenwood:

"Meet all back again, set and turn S."

Also, many of Playford's two couple dances and circle dances start with
"meet all forward a D and back."

Of course, lots of ECD dances have the reverse: lines fall back and come
forward. I assume SCD hasn't adopted this figure because 1) the footwork
makes dancing backward somewhat mincing and 2) dancers move beyond the
set boundaries, which tend to be more fixed in SCD.

I like the idea of trying R shoulder siding in SCD strathspey A&R, even
if it isn't historically correct. It * is* curious, though, that SCD
doesn't use any of the three standard Playford "verses": up a double &
back, siding, arming.
Is there more interaction between the SCD & ECD dance forms in the 18th
century than the 17th?

--Jenny Beer