strathspey Archive: Controversial View - footwear

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Controversial View - footwear

Message 61638 · jo.pickering · 5 Aug 2011 04:46:43 · Top

Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.

My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes.

Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young.

I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

Jo
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61640 · Patricia Ruggiero · 5 Aug 2011 05:25:35 · Top

Jo wrote:

> Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie,
> ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.

Yes, I have tried other types of soft-soled shoes, but was not satisfied
with them because of either weight/heaviness of the entire shoe or a sole
that gripped the floor, both leading to early and excessive fatigue. Not
getting a good toe point was displeasing, but not decisive in my abandoning
them.

I've not worn ghillies for many years. I prefer the Capezio "jazz" shoe.
The latter doesn't seem that much more substantial than ghillies, but
somehow it feels better on my feet. Maybe it's that slight, low heel that
makes the difference. I wear them for both SCD and ECD.

Now that I think of it, there was one shoe, made by Rockport about 25 years
ago, that was just right for contra, ECD, and SCD. Trim, shaped like a
ballet slipper, but with a soft (composite?) sole, arch support, and a
strap. One could get a decent toe point in them. Suede. Lightweight, but
with just enough cushioning for the harder floors. The company stopped
making them in the late 80s. I bought several at a close-out sale, but they
are all gone now.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61643 · Anselm Lingnau · 5 Aug 2011 09:43:51 · Top

jo.pickering wrote:

> Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie,
> ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.
>
> My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo
> competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary
> shoes.

Jo, I don't think this is a controversial view at all. Try again :^)

During a period of Achilles tendon trouble, I have had good experiences with
»jazz« shoes that are soft yet have a (low) heel. I would recommend people who
are unhappy with ghillies/flat shoes visit a ballet supply shop, where there
is usually a wide selection of all sorts of shoes that are, in my opinion,
suitable for SCD.

»Ordinary shoes« are, unfortunately, out of the question at least in our club
in Frankfurt as we are dancing in a school gymnasium where anything other than
dedicated, i.e., not also worn in the street, sports-type shoes are Officially
Forbidden by the owner of the premises (the city of Frankfurt).

> I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I
> feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure
> they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

In my opinion, no one should »feel obliged« to wear shoes that cause them
discomfort or even pain. After all, SCD is supposed to be an enjoyable
activity.

In the spirit of sprucing up the Strathspey web site, why don't we start a
footwear gallery? If people have had favourable experiences with shoes other
than ghillies or ballet pumps for SCD, do send me a photograph and a short
explanation and I'll make up a page so others can see what is out there.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. anselm@strathspey.org
In fact, the notion that any ancient book could be an infallible guide to
living in the present gets my vote for being the most dangerously stupid idea
on earth. -- Sam Harris

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61645 · Pia Walker · 5 Aug 2011 09:58:49 · Top

Anselm - should that be pics of shoes 'as new' or 'I have worn these for
some time' LOL

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
Sent: 05 August 2011 08:44
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

jo.pickering wrote:

> Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie,
> ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.
>
> My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo
> competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary
> shoes.

Jo, I don't think this is a controversial view at all. Try again :^)

During a period of Achilles tendon trouble, I have had good experiences with
>jazz< shoes that are soft yet have a (low) heel. I would recommend people
who are unhappy with ghillies/flat shoes visit a ballet supply shop, where
there is usually a wide selection of all sorts of shoes that are, in my
opinion, suitable for SCD.

>Ordinary shoes< are, unfortunately, out of the question at least in our
club in Frankfurt as we are dancing in a school gymnasium where anything
other than dedicated, i.e., not also worn in the street, sports-type shoes
are Officially Forbidden by the owner of the premises (the city of
Frankfurt).

> I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but
> I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm
> sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

In my opinion, no one should >feel obliged< to wear shoes that cause them
discomfort or even pain. After all, SCD is supposed to be an enjoyable
activity.

In the spirit of sprucing up the Strathspey web site, why don't we start a
footwear gallery? If people have had favourable experiences with shoes other
than ghillies or ballet pumps for SCD, do send me a photograph and a short
explanation and I'll make up a page so others can see what is out there.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany .................
anselm@strathspey.org In fact, the notion that any ancient book could be an
infallible guide to living in the present gets my vote for being the most
dangerously stupid idea
on earth. -- Sam
Harris

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61646 · Anselm Lingnau · 5 Aug 2011 10:02:49 · Top

Pia wrote:

> Anselm - should that be pics of shoes 'as new' or 'I have worn these for
> some time' LOL

I suppose if one can still recognise that it is a shoe we should be fine ;^)
Maybe we'll get several pictures of the same sort of shoe at various stages of
decay and we can have a before-after set of images.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. anselm@strathspey.org
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-- Samuel Beckett

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61644 · Pia Walker · 5 Aug 2011 09:56:10 · Top

I use a Jazz shoe - it has split sole, and a small unobtrusive heel - it is
a little bit more clunky than a pump, but the way it is built, supports my
instep better. For dems I use what the team demands, but for class work and
at dances, I use what I feel best in.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: jo.pickering [mailto:jo.pickering468@btinternet.com]
Sent: 05 August 2011 03:47
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Controversial View - footwear

Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie,
?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.

My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo
competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes.

Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes
without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance
on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young.

I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I feel
a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they feel
obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

Jo
Sent using BlackBerryR from Orange

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61647 · Cord Walter · 5 Aug 2011 10:59:34 · Top

Am 05.08.2011 04:46, schrieb jo.pickering:
> Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie
> (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.

Interesting idea. I started dancing with the softest shoe I had at that
time (ordinary shoe with flexible leather sole and little heel) but this
didn't work that well & felt clumsy (the extra weight of a normal shoe
compared with a ghillie is quite hindering for SCD, I discovered).

So with these kind of shoe out of the picture I wonder how much
alternatives there actially are... I doubt that I will ever see a dancer
in something like this:

http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/jaya.aspx?gender=W

but who knows ;)

>
> I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but
> I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm
> sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

Good point as this mitgh be reason for some people to quit dancing. If I
would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my
enthusiasm for dancing...

Personally I prefer shoes with thin flexible soles not only for dancing
but also in everyday use (since going barefoot is not likely to go back
in style soon ;) ) - but as far as I know not every foot agrees with the
lack of support these shoes provide...

Cord

--
Cord Walter
email: cord.walter@cwalter.net

2.5.03.02.005: Generally speaking, if you twiddle with something, it
will break. Don't.

Weil es niemanden etwas angeht, dass ich nichts zu verbergen habe:
http://www.gnupg.org/
http://www.truecrypt.org/

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61648 · Anselm Lingnau · 5 Aug 2011 11:35:34 · Top

Cord Walter wrote:

> I doubt that I will ever see a dancer
> in something like this:
>
> http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/jaya.aspx?gender=W
>
> but who knows ;)

They have models for indoor sports which look as if they might work for SCD,
but I suspect the rubber soles could be a problem.

We used to let people wear indoor sneakers during their first weeks in our
group, but we have started recommending against this since we had a spate of
injuries that could be linked to the way their plastic soles tend to stick to
the floor. These days we try to get people to buy leather-sole gym or ballet
shoes ASAP, which isn't a big investment even if they at some point decide to
shell out for ghillies.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. anselm@strathspey.org
It's as if _The Da Vinci Code_ had been written by someone who wasn't an
idiot. -- Cory Doctorow, on »Manuscript« by Michael Stephan Fuchs

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61675 · Patty Lindsay · 5 Aug 2011 20:54:58 · Top

I too have experienced my very new dancers getting injured while dancing in
sneakers due to the shoes gripping the floor.

I now order a supply of these shoes when I am about to start a new
beginner's class:
http://www.discountdance.com/dancewear/style_FREE1.html

They are sold in small, medium, and large (the flexible sizing makes it
feasible to order a stock ahead of time) and fit most women, and smaller
men. They are light, have a split sole, and they do well on slippery floors
but don't stick on less-slippery floors. I let them try them for a week or
two, most end up buying a pair from me (at cost). The selection of shoes
available in local stores is not great, so by making an inexpensive pair of
shoes readily available they are more likely to dance in something more
appropriate than sneakers.

> We used to let people wear indoor sneakers during their first weeks in our
> group, but we have started recommending against this since we had a spate
> of
> injuries that could be linked to the way their plastic soles tend to stick
> to
> the floor. These days we try to get people to buy leather-sole gym or
> ballet
> shoes ASAP, which isn't a big investment even if they at some point decide
> to
> shell out for ghillies.
>
> Anselm
>

--
Patty Lindsay
Beavercreek, Ohio

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61676 · Colleen Putt · 5 Aug 2011 21:20:16 · Top

These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good
foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery
floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And
they're relatively cheap.
Cheers,
Colleen Putt
Bedford, Nova Scotia

Quoting Patty Lindsay <patty.lindsay@gmail.com>:

> I too have experienced my very new dancers getting injured while dancing in
> sneakers due to the shoes gripping the floor.
>
> I now order a supply of these shoes when I am about to start a new
> beginner's class:
> http://www.discountdance.com/dancewear/style_FREE1.html
>
> They are sold in small, medium, and large (the flexible sizing makes it
> feasible to order a stock ahead of time) and fit most women, and smaller
> men. They are light, have a split sole, and they do well on slippery floors
> but don't stick on less-slippery floors. I let them try them for a week or
> two, most end up buying a pair from me (at cost). The selection of shoes
> available in local stores is not great, so by making an inexpensive pair of
> shoes readily available they are more likely to dance in something more
> appropriate than sneakers.
>
>
>> We used to let people wear indoor sneakers during their first weeks in our
>> group, but we have started recommending against this since we had a spate
>> of
>> injuries that could be linked to the way their plastic soles tend to stick
>> to
>> the floor. These days we try to get people to buy leather-sole gym or
>> ballet
>> shoes ASAP, which isn't a big investment even if they at some point decide
>> to
>> shell out for ghillies.
>>
>> Anselm
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Patty Lindsay
> Beavercreek, Ohio
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61704 · Monica Pollard · 7 Aug 2011 22:50:21 · Top

This has been one of the most helpful threads on Strathspey in a long
time! Thanks, all, for some great recommendations.

I've been dealing with PF since TAC summer school last August. I
stopped wearing ghillies about three years ago, as they hurt my
bunions too much by scrunching my toes together. I've been wearing
spenco pads in ballet slippers, which is definitley more comfortable.
But now the Plantar Fasciitis has made it very difficult to stand for
long periods of time in thin shoes during dance classes. Even though
I start out feeling ok, by the end of two hours it hurts a lot.
Especially when I'm teaching and don't get to dance much.

Perhaps one of these dance shoes will help.

Monica Pollard

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM, <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
> These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good foot
> support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery floors, and have
> enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And they're relatively cheap.

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61705 · Pia Walker · 8 Aug 2011 00:21:37 · Top

When I get an attack of PF, I do a lot of stretching during the day -
standing an arm lengths from the wall and then with my legs stretched lean
towards said wall. Or standing with one leg in front of the other, bend the
front leg and keeping the other stretched - I do this continually during the
day. I also massage my feet using a ball - a golf or baseball does the
trick. Plus I ensure my metatarsals gets pushed back into place as they
tend to take the strain when the heel is sore.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Pollard [mailto:calanais3@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 August 2011 21:50
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

This has been one of the most helpful threads on Strathspey in a long time!
Thanks, all, for some great recommendations.

I've been dealing with PF since TAC summer school last August. I stopped
wearing ghillies about three years ago, as they hurt my bunions too much by
scrunching my toes together. I've been wearing spenco pads in ballet
slippers, which is definitley more comfortable.
But now the Plantar Fasciitis has made it very difficult to stand for long
periods of time in thin shoes during dance classes. Even though I start out
feeling ok, by the end of two hours it hurts a lot.
Especially when I'm teaching and don't get to dance much.

Perhaps one of these dance shoes will help.

Monica Pollard

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM, <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
> These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good
> foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery
> floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And they're
relatively cheap.

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61740 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 17 Aug 2011 15:50:18 · Top

I'm coming late to this discussion, but thought I'd chime in, since I
haven't seen what I wear mentioned yet in this thread.

The Capezio "Dansleekers" have been recommended already, but I really like a
different model from the one that was previously mentioned (that one is
called "Freedom"). I really like the one called "Nimbus."
http://www.onstagedancewear.com/PD-4053.aspx
Like the "Freedom," they have a vaguely ghillie-like look, with the laces
criss-crossing up the foot, and they have a relatively hard plastic/rubber
split sole. It is not too grippy, but provide just a bit of traction on
very slippery floors. This model is more expensive than the "Freedom," but
it is also more substantial. I've got two pairs which I've been using
heavily now for about 3-4 years and they are still going strong, though they
are starting to show some wear.

See also my previous post about these shoes on Strathspey:
http://www.strathspey.org/list/strathspey/archive/msg/48813/

/ Lara

*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com

*****************************

>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM, <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
> > These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good
> > foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery
> > floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And they're
> relatively cheap.
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61743 · Monica Pollard · 18 Aug 2011 01:14:25 · Top

that one seems to have more of a squared-edge to the heel. Have you
found that to be a problem?

Monica

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Lara Friedman-Shedlov
<lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm coming late to this discussion, but thought I'd chime in, since I
> haven't seen what I wear mentioned yet in this thread.
>
> The Capezio "Dansleekers" have been recommended already, but I really like a
> different model from the one that was previously mentioned (that one is
> called "Freedom").  I really like the one called "Nimbus."
> http://www.onstagedancewear.com/PD-4053.aspx
> Like the "Freedom," they have a vaguely ghillie-like look, with the laces
> criss-crossing up the foot, and they have a relatively hard plastic/rubber
> split sole.  It is not too grippy, but provide just a bit of traction on
> very slippery floors.  This model is more expensive than the "Freedom," but
> it is also more substantial.  I've got two pairs which I've been using
> heavily now for about 3-4 years and they are still going strong, though they
> are starting to show some wear.
>
> See also my previous post about these shoes on Strathspey:
> http://www.strathspey.org/list/strathspey/archive/msg/48813/
>
>
> / Lara
>
>
>
> *****************************
> Lara Friedman~Shedlov
> lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM,  <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
>> > These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good
>> > foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery
>> > floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And they're
>> relatively cheap.
>>
>>
>
>

--
Nampa/Boise, Idaho, USA

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a
horrible warning."
Catherine Aird

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61748 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 22 Aug 2011 20:39:26 · Top

Nope. Actually the back edge of the heel is kind of rounded, so I find I
bruise myself much less with these shoes than with some other jazz shoes
I've tried over the years.

*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com

*****************************

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Monica Pollard <calanais3@gmail.com> wrote:

> that one seems to have more of a squared-edge to the heel. Have you
> found that to be a problem?
>
> Monica
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Lara Friedman-Shedlov
> <lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm coming late to this discussion, but thought I'd chime in, since I
> > haven't seen what I wear mentioned yet in this thread.
> >
> > The Capezio "Dansleekers" have been recommended already, but I really
> like a
> > different model from the one that was previously mentioned (that one is
> > called "Freedom"). I really like the one called "Nimbus."
> > http://www.onstagedancewear.com/PD-4053.aspx
> > Like the "Freedom," they have a vaguely ghillie-like look, with the laces
> > criss-crossing up the foot, and they have a relatively hard
> plastic/rubber
> > split sole. It is not too grippy, but provide just a bit of traction on
> > very slippery floors. This model is more expensive than the "Freedom,"
> but
> > it is also more substantial. I've got two pairs which I've been using
> > heavily now for about 3-4 years and they are still going strong, though
> they
> > are starting to show some wear.
> >
> > See also my previous post about these shoes on Strathspey:
> > http://www.strathspey.org/list/strathspey/archive/msg/48813/
> >
> >
> > / Lara
> >
> >
> >
> > *****************************
> > Lara Friedman~Shedlov
> > lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
> >
> > *****************************
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM, <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
> >> > These 'Sleekers' have become very popular here. The shoes provide good
> >> > foot support since they fit so snugly, good traction on slippery
> >> > floors, and have enough 'lacing' that they resemble ghillies. And
> they're
> >> relatively cheap.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nampa/Boise, Idaho, USA
>
> "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a
> horrible warning."
> Catherine Aird
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61652 · Martin Campoveja · 5 Aug 2011 15:39:21 · Top

2011/8/5 Cord Walter <cord.walter@cwalter.net>

>
> If I
> would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my enthusiasm
> for dancing...
>

I came to feel very uncomfortable in ghillies and gave them up many years
ago (too tight, no elasticity, especially when "reinforced" with plastic).

>
> ... going barefoot is not likely to go back
> in style soon ...
>

Style is what you feel comfortable with; if you want to follow other
people's ideas, don 't complain if it hurts (smile!).

Someone suggest photos of our favorite footwear. My feet have often been
filmed and photoed, but I'm not sure I have any pictures myself, so a verbal
description will have to do.
I can dance comfortably only in bare feet (or sock-covered feet, when it's
too cold, or if I want to look like everyone else).
No "support" (whatever that may be), as nature intended.

No need to start any discussion; it's all in the archives.

Martin

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61653 · Martin Campoveja · 5 Aug 2011 15:41:23 · Top

PS : I intended to add that nothing, even ghillies, could dampen my
enthusiasm for SCD.

Martin

2011/8/5 Cord Walter <cord.walter@cwalter.net>
>
>>
>> If I
>> would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my enthusiasm
>> for dancing...
>>
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61662 · Lmae · 5 Aug 2011 17:11:52 · Top

I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball of my
foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are debilitating.
I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2
They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel.
I like them very much.

BTW, the neuroma was caused by wearing tights with lycra that squeezed my
toes together (probably wearing these 4-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, over a
period of about 10 years or so with only about a 2 month summer break). I
wear toe-less tights now, and it has helped some, but nerve damage, I
understand, is permanent.
Linda Mae

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Sheffield" <francoscot@gmail.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

> PS : I intended to add that nothing, even ghillies, could dampen my
> enthusiasm for SCD.
>
> Martin
>
> 2011/8/5 Cord Walter <cord.walter@cwalter.net>
>>
>>>
>>> If I
>>> would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my
>>> enthusiasm
>>> for dancing...
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61664 · Steve Wyrick · 5 Aug 2011 17:29:07 · Top

My wife is using a pair of Bloch split-sole jazz sneakers that look very
much like these while all her "regular" dance ghillies are at the shoe shop.
She reports they worked very well at class last night.

I've been dealing with plantar fasciitis for a couple years now and usually
wear an oversized set of ghillies that can accommodate my orthotics, but
that's not optimal for pointing. I've been looking at alternative footwear
for dancing so am very interested in this discussion myself. -Steve

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Lmae <lmae@imaginationprocessing.com> wrote:

> I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball of my
> foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are debilitating.
> I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
> http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-**S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/**B003VWCFU2<http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2>
> They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
> They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel.
> I like them very much.
>
> BTW, the neuroma was caused by wearing tights with lycra that squeezed my
> toes together (probably wearing these 4-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, over a
> period of about 10 years or so with only about a 2 month summer break). I
> wear toe-less tights now, and it has helped some, but nerve damage, I
> understand, is permanent.
> Linda Mae
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Sheffield" <
> francoscot@gmail.com>
> To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 6:41 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear
>
>
> PS : I intended to add that nothing, even ghillies, could dampen my
>> enthusiasm for SCD.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> 2011/8/5 Cord Walter <cord.walter@cwalter.net>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If I
>>>> would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my
>>>> enthusiasm
>>>> for dancing...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61668 · Pia Walker · 5 Aug 2011 17:57:05 · Top

Bloch is great! Good support. Good luck with the PF - stretching helps and
wearing 'flip flops' 'tongs' or whatever else you call them (sandals with
separation between big toes and other toes, seem to help me.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wyrick [mailto:sjwyrick@gmail.com]
Sent: 05 August 2011 16:29
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

My wife is using a pair of Bloch split-sole jazz sneakers that look very
much like these while all her "regular" dance ghillies are at the shoe shop.
She reports they worked very well at class last night.

I've been dealing with plantar fasciitis for a couple years now and usually
wear an oversized set of ghillies that can accommodate my orthotics, but
that's not optimal for pointing. I've been looking at alternative footwear
for dancing so am very interested in this discussion myself. -Steve

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Lmae <lmae@imaginationprocessing.com> wrote:

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61669 · Kate Walker · 5 Aug 2011 17:59:44 · Top

I also use jazz sneakers at times, as they provide a fair amount of arch support. I'll use ghillies when I need a good point, or when I'm at an event where looks matter (ball or demo). Personally, I think people should wear whatever dance shoe suits their needs, especially if there are any health/comfort issues. BUT some types of shoes do promote better footwork among those of us who are basically healthy in the legs. Ballet slippers, ghillies and jazz shoes (the kind with the tiny bit of heel) seem to work equally well in the kid's classes I teach - I probably wouldn't allow a heavier shoe (even a dance sneaker) unless medically necessary.

Isn't dancing in bare feet kind of unhygienic? Again, "my" kids like it but I insist on shoes for any dancing at socials and balls.

Cheers,
Kate Walker
Austin TX

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61666 · Pia Walker · 5 Aug 2011 17:54:02 · Top

Ahh Ibuprofen Gel - works wonders :>) And try fishnet tights - great give
and air.

Wearing either dance pumps 1-2 sizes too small for me, en pointe ballet
shoes from too early an age and ball room shoes with high heel every day for
12 years.

Now don't give a hoot what I wear as long as I am comfortable - although
when I call/dance ceilidh I usually wear high-heeled ball room shoes (and
Ibuprofen gel) :>)

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Lmae [mailto:lmae@imaginationprocessing.com]
Sent: 05 August 2011 16:12
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball of my
foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are debilitating.
I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2
They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel.
I like them very much.

BTW, the neuroma was caused by wearing tights with lycra that squeezed my
toes together (probably wearing these 4-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, over a
period of about 10 years or so with only about a 2 month summer break). I
wear toe-less tights now, and it has helped some, but nerve damage, I
understand, is permanent.
Linda Mae

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Sheffield" <francoscot@gmail.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

> PS : I intended to add that nothing, even ghillies, could dampen my
> enthusiasm for SCD.
>
> Martin
>
> 2011/8/5 Cord Walter <cord.walter@cwalter.net>
>>
>>>
>>> If I
>>> would feel uncomfortably in ghillies it would certainly damp my
>>> enthusiasm
>>> for dancing...
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61671 · Mike Briggs · 5 Aug 2011 18:05:31 · Top

For some mysterious reason, ibuprofen gel is not sold in the US.  I did an internet order for a couple tubes from a pharmacy in Thunder Bay, ON, though, and I agree with Pia that's it's a wonder-drug (I was going to say panacea, but it's useless for myopia).

Mike Briggs
 
1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61672 · Pia Walker · 5 Aug 2011 18:22:08 · Top

It is anti-inflammatory and a pain relief and instead of taking it
internally it is rubbed on - if I know I'm going to strain my feet
unreasonably, I'll put it on before the event - it means no pain during or
after (I have had arthritis in my big toe joint and bunions since I was 20).

In case of strains etc, where not feeling the pain can cause a worsening of
the damage, I put it on at night, where the anti-inflammatories will work,
but where I'm not putting a strain on the injury by moving too much.

Of course you have to read the instructions so as not to take it if you have
an underlying health condition.

PIa

-----Original Message-----
From: Norma or Mike Briggs [mailto:briggslaw@yahoo.com]
Sent: 05 August 2011 17:06
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

For some mysterious reason, ibuprofen gel is not sold in the US.  I did an
internet order for a couple tubes from a pharmacy in Thunder Bay, ON,
though, and I agree with Pia that's it's a wonder-drug (I was going to say
panacea, but it's useless for myopia).

Mike Briggs
 
1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA

Ibuprofen

Message 61677 · Anselm Lingnau · 5 Aug 2011 23:44:28 · Top

Pia wrote:

> Of course you have to read the instructions so as not to take it if you
> have an underlying health condition.

Ibuprofen is a prescription-only medicine in Germany. I understand that a trip
to the chemist is de rigueur for many German dancers in St Andrews, because in
Britain you can get it over the counter.

I actually got some ibuprofen pills on prescription last year for my knee
(which is better now, thank you very much, mostly through waiting and light
exercise) and they worked very well – I didn't dance while I was taking them,
though, since I didn't want to risk making the knee worse while I wasn't
feeling any pain. I still have some left in case I need them desperately.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. anselm@strathspey.org
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
-- Mark Twain

Ibuprofen

Message 61678 · Mike Briggs · 6 Aug 2011 00:40:38 · Top

Years, many years ago, Norma and I were at TAC when it was held at Brock U in St Catherine's, ON (anyone else remember the joys of laundry-cart racing up and down the dorm halls?).  She was doing an exam course, and I was hanging around having a good time.  She and her fellow-candidates ran out of ibuprofen, which was then prescription-only in Canada.

With nothing better to do (except dance or play the accordion), I made a border run of about 40 km one-way to Niagara Falls, NY, where I stopped at the nearest big-box drugstore and acquired about 1,000 ibuprofen pills for my suffering wife and friends.

Re-entering Canada, I was asked "Anything to declare?" and I blithely responded "No," feeling a little like a big-time drug smuggler. 

I guess this was a question, in the end, of whether the good deed of helping alleviate bodily pain outweighed the bad deed of telling Canadian customs an out-and-out lie.  At least that's how I rationalized it then.

And I'd do it over if I needed to.

Have a great weekend, with pain-free dancing, wherever you are.

Mike Briggs

 1519 Storytown Road

Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
+1 608 835 0914 (o)
+1 608 770 2304 (m)
+1 608 237 2379 (f)

Ibuprofen

Message 61680 · Bruce Herbold · 6 Aug 2011 01:03:24 · Top

wht we refer to around here as "Vitamin I"

and sing song to the tune of frere Jaques:

Ibuprofin, Ibuprofin
Tylenol, Tylenol
Aspirin and Advil
Aspirin and Advil
Try them all, try them all
Bruce Herbold
San Francisco
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Norma or Mike Briggs <briggslaw@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Years, many years ago, Norma and I were at TAC when it was held at Brock U
> in St Catherine's, ON (anyone else remember the joys of laundry-cart racing
> up and down the dorm halls?). She was doing an exam course, and I was
> hanging around having a good time. She and her fellow-candidates ran out of
> ibuprofen, which was then prescription-only in Canada.
>
> With nothing better to do (except dance or play the accordion), I made a
> border run of about 40 km one-way to Niagara Falls, NY, where I stopped at
> the nearest big-box drugstore and acquired about 1,000 ibuprofen pills for
> my suffering wife and friends.
>
> Re-entering Canada, I was asked "Anything to declare?" and I blithely
> responded "No," feeling a little like a big-time drug smuggler.
>
>
> I guess this was a question, in the end, of whether the good deed of
> helping alleviate bodily pain outweighed the bad deed of telling Canadian
> customs an out-and-out lie. At least that's how I rationalized it then.
>
> And I'd do it over if I needed to.
>
> Have a great weekend, with pain-free dancing, wherever you are.
>
>
> Mike Briggs
>
> 1519 Storytown Road
>
> Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
> +1 608 835 0914 (o)
> +1 608 770 2304 (m)
> +1 608 237 2379 (f)
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Ibuprofen

Message 61682 · Anselm Lingnau · 6 Aug 2011 01:11:00 · Top

I wrote:

> Ibuprofen is a prescription-only medicine in Germany.

A kind Strathspey contributor with a background in pharmaceuticals has just
made me aware of the fact that this apparently isn't actually the case – you
need to go to a pharmacy but you can get the stuff without a prescription.
Good for us.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany ................. anselm@strathspey.org
If people never did silly things, nothing intelligent would ever get done.
-- Ludwig Wittgenstein

Ibuprofen

Message 61686 · Denise Smith · 6 Aug 2011 03:42:20 · Top

And in Australia we can buy it in the Supermarket, along with our groceries!
Denise

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org>wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> > Ibuprofen is a prescription-only medicine in Germany.
>
> A kind Strathspey contributor with a background in pharmaceuticals has just
> made me aware of the fact that this apparently isn't actually the case –
> you
> need to go to a pharmacy but you can get the stuff without a prescription.
> Good for us.
>
> Anselm
> --
> Anselm Lingnau, Mainz/Mayence, Germany .................
> anselm@strathspey.org
> If people never did silly things, nothing intelligent would ever get done.
> -- Ludwig
> Wittgenstein
>

--
Denise Smith
76 Celandine St
Shailer Park Qld 4128
+617 3209 7006
pauldenise3@bigpond.com

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61673 · Bruce Herbold · 5 Aug 2011 19:02:28 · Top

you tried it for myopia or just making wild assumptions?

Bruce

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Norma or Mike Briggs <briggslaw@yahoo.com>wrote:

> For some mysterious reason, ibuprofen gel is not sold in the US. I did an
> internet order for a couple tubes from a pharmacy in Thunder Bay, ON,
> though, and I agree with Pia that's it's a wonder-drug (I was going to say
> panacea, but it's useless for myopia).
>
> Mike Briggs
>
> 1519 Storytown Road
> Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61674 · Mike Briggs · 5 Aug 2011 19:16:50 · Top

I actually put it on a sore knee but it did s**t for my near-sightedness.  :>)

Mike

 

1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
+1 608 835 0914 (o)
+1 608 770 2304 (m)
+1 608 237 2379 (f)

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61670 · Susan McKinnell · 5 Aug 2011 18:01:23 · Top

I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I
have very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find
shoes that fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them
there, but the new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are
US ladies 10 WW for reference). So, does anyone know where one can
purchase dancing shoes in very wide sizes?
Sue in Chicago, USA

On 8/5/2011 10:11 AM, Lmae wrote:
> I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball
> of my foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are
> debilitating.
> I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
> http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2
> They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
> They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel.
> I like them very much.
>
>
>

--
Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com

"A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
its title?"
- Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61685 · Iain Boyd · 6 Aug 2011 03:32:16 · Top

I am disappointed to learn that Seniors will not make custom shoes now.

Fortunately, I have enough to last a while and I tend not to wear out my pumps that quickly.

However, it could be a problem in the future.

I was spoilt by the late Len Smith (a dancer and shoe maker here in New Zealand). He would always make my pumps to measure.

Rhoda Tanner devised a very nice and relatively simple dance for Len - "Our Dancing Soutar" in "The Kauri Collection". It is well worth trying.

Regards,

 
Iain Boyd

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404
Wellington 6142
New Zealand

----- Original Message -----
From: Susan McKinnell <luvscd@suedan.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

I love the idea of information on dancing shoes.  My problem is that I have very wide (and long) feet.  It is virtually impossible to find shoes that fit.  When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them there, but the new cobbler does not provide this service.  (My feet are US ladies 10 WW for reference).  So, does anyone know where one can purchase dancing shoes in very wide sizes?
Sue in Chicago, USA

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61688 · Denise Smith · 6 Aug 2011 04:08:10 · Top

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Iain Boyd <iain_boyd_scd@yahoo.co.nz>wrote:

> I am disappointed to learn that Seniors will not make custom shoes now.
>
> Fortunately, I have enough to last a while and I tend not to wear out my
> pumps that quickly.
>
> However, it could be a problem in the future.
>
> I was spoilt by the late Len Smith (a dancer and shoe maker here in New
> Zealand). He would always make my pumps to measure.
>
> Rhoda Tanner devised a very nice and relatively simple dance for Len - "Our
> Dancing Soutar" in "The Kauri Collection". It is well worth trying.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Iain Boyd
>
>
> Postal Address -
>
> P O Box 11-404
> Wellington 6142
> New Zealand
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan McKinnell <luvscd@suedan.com>
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 4:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear
>
> I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I have
> very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find shoes that
> fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them there, but the
> new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are US ladies 10 WW for
> reference). So, does anyone know where one can purchase dancing shoes in
> very wide sizes?
> Sue in Chicago, USA
>

--
Denise Smith
76 Celandine St
Shailer Park Qld 4128
+617 3209 7006
pauldenise3@bigpond.com

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61700 · Mary Quinton · 6 Aug 2011 19:01:11 · Top

Sue, I sympathise,
I also have shoe problems but I have a long narrow foot.
However, if you look at the following website they do quite a range of
dance shoes including jazz shoes in your size, and men's ballet shoes which
also come in large sizes.
http://www.movedancewear.com/cat/dance_shoes_jazz_shoes/21_115/
Mary Quinton
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan McKinnell" <luvscd@suedan.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear

>I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I
> have very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find
> shoes that fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them
> there, but the new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are
> US ladies 10 WW for reference). So, does anyone know where one can
> purchase dancing shoes in very wide sizes?
> Sue in Chicago, USA
>
> On 8/5/2011 10:11 AM, Lmae wrote:
>> I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball
>> of my foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are
>> debilitating.
>> I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
>> http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2
>> They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
>> They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight heel.
>> I like them very much.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com
>
> "A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
> revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
> its title?"
> - Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson
>
>
>

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61702 · Susan McKinnell · 6 Aug 2011 20:29:00 · Top

Thank you! I will look at this site in hopes. Sue

On 8/6/2011 12:01 PM, Mary Quinton wrote:
> Sue, I sympathise,
> I also have shoe problems but I have a long narrow foot.
> However, if you look at the following website they do quite a range of
> dance shoes including jazz shoes in your size, and men's ballet shoes
> which also come in large sizes.
> http://www.movedancewear.com/cat/dance_shoes_jazz_shoes/21_115/
> Mary Quinton
> UK
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan McKinnell" <luvscd@suedan.com>
> To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Controversial View - footwear
>
>
>> I love the idea of information on dancing shoes. My problem is that I
>> have very wide (and long) feet. It is virtually impossible to find
>> shoes that fit. When Senior's made shoes to order, I could order them
>> there, but the new cobbler does not provide this service. (My feet are
>> US ladies 10 WW for reference). So, does anyone know where one can
>> purchase dancing shoes in very wide sizes?
>> Sue in Chicago, USA
>>
>> On 8/5/2011 10:11 AM, Lmae wrote:
>>> I have Morton's neuroma, and must have a hard surface under the ball
>>> of my foot and my toes or the shooting pains through my toes are
>>> debilitating.
>>> I found these not-so-clunky dance sneakers --
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Sansha-S30LC-Dynamo-Dance-Sneaker/dp/B003VWCFU2
>>> They're great, and come in several colors, which I like.
>>> They have a split sole, so I can still point my foot, and a slight
>>> heel.
>>> I like them very much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com
>>
>> "A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
>> revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
>> its title?"
>> - Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com

"A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
its title?"
- Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61649 · Susi Mayr · 5 Aug 2011 12:06:16 · Top

On the subject of footwear for Scottish Country Dancing, you may find Bill Clement's contribution to the Kaleidoscope conference of interest. It is available online (courtesy of Anselm and the Strathspey server) at:
http://scdkaleidoscope1.strathspey.org/videos/05-bill-clement

Susi

Susi Mayr
Vienna (Austria) & Kent (England)

--- On Fri, 5/8/11, jo.pickering <jo.pickering468@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: jo.pickering <jo.pickering468@btinternet.com>
Subject: Controversial View - footwear
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Date: Friday, 5 August, 2011, 2:46

Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie, ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.

My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes.

Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young.

I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.

Jo
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

Controversial View - footwear

Message 61687 · Denise Smith · 6 Aug 2011 04:06:25 · Top

I've had the big toe joint in my left foot removed, the toe is now held
together with two steel pins. I also need to have the same joint in my right
foot removed - but am waiting until after this year's NZ Summer School!!!
Meanwhile, the pain is pretty bad. I've been wearing the Bloch 'Slipstream'
for about 3 years now and find them very supportive and comfortable. I have
had soft orthotics made to fit in them (expensive but essential). See them
here:
http://www.movedancewear.com/dance_shoes-bloch_slipstream_jazz_shoe/74/

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:46 PM, jo.pickering <
jo.pickering468@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Has anybody considered dancing not wearing so-called gillie (?ghillie,
> ?gille) pumps or similar soft flat shoe.
>
> My understanding is that traditionally these were only worn for solo
> competition or display dancing and that country dancers wore ordinary shoes.
>
> Nobody wants people spiked with stillettos but on the other hand shoes
> without heels play havoc with your arches and virtually force you to dance
> on the toes all the time, which is a bit hard going for the not so young.
>
> I can actually dance quite happily on my toes and enjoy doing it, but I
> feel a bit sorry for some folks hobbling about in shoes which I'm sure they
> feel obliged to wear, but are doing them no favours.
>
> Jo
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

--
Denise Smith
76 Celandine St
Shailer Park Qld 4128
+617 3209 7006
pauldenise3@bigpond.com

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