strathspey Archive: Change in the Modern World

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Change in the Modern World

Message 58807 · mlamontbrown · 31 May 2010 11:13:18 · Top

While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the groups asked me about the
quick-time poussette.

It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on his left
foot.

This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I could, saying
that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz / polka around the other
couple.

They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque, (with the possibility of
an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I explained that as the
decision had been made so many years ago it would be impossible to change it.

I think they had trouble with this answer.

It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system in a
country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the RSCDS about
which foot the man should use to start a poussette.

I must say I found that rather disturbing.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Change in the Modern World

Message 58808 · Ian Brown · 31 May 2010 11:37:21 · Top

Ah, for the first time, an explanation for the left foot
rule that I can believe.

However, in my view the questioner is quite right, the rule
is perverse. In my experience the possibility of an
intersecting jeté is more than a possibility - it is a
probability. The good news is that if this rule were
dropped then those who prefer to dance with the right foot
first could do so whilst others could carry on with their
left. No-one else in the set would be affected (except the
dancers' partners, who might expect to be kicked less
often).

In other words, how about a coalition of the right footers
and the left?

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 10:13
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Change in the Modern World

While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the
groups asked me about the
quick-time poussette.

It started off with a question about whether the man needed
to start on his left
foot.

This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the
best answer I could, saying
that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz
/ polka around the other
couple.

They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque,
(with the possibility of
an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I
explained that as the
decision had been made so many years ago it would be
impossible to change it.

I think they had trouble with this answer.

It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete
political system in a
country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision
made by the RSCDS about
which foot the man should use to start a poussette.

I must say I found that rather disturbing.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Change in the Modern World

Message 58816 · Oberdan Otto · 31 May 2010 15:12:49 · Top

I heard Malcolm's explanation many years ago when I was a fledgling
dancer.

When we dance the Poussette, we are directly in front of out partner.
However, when we Waltz, we are in a closed position in which the lady
is slightly offset to the Man's right side, so, if she stepped
forward with her right foot it would go between her partners feet,
not onto his left foot. So it is curious that we kept one part of the
Waltz mechanism (opposite footwork) while throwing away the aspect
that made it work well (partner offset to the right).

However, I must confess that in several decades of dancing, the
number of times my jete has touched my partner's I can count on one
hand. It is a very low probability event, especially if you take into
account that we are directing the jete toward the direction in which
the couple is moving.

Cheers, Oberdan.

On May 31, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Ian & Vicki Brown wrote:

> Ah, for the first time, an explanation for the left foot
> rule that I can believe.
>
> However, in my view the questioner is quite right, the rule
> is perverse. In my experience the possibility of an
> intersecting jeté is more than a possibility - it is a
> probability. The good news is that if this rule were
> dropped then those who prefer to dance with the right foot
> first could do so whilst others could carry on with their
> left. No-one else in the set would be affected (except the
> dancers' partners, who might expect to be kicked less
> often).
>
> In other words, how about a coalition of the right footers
> and the left?
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
> Sent: 31 May 2010 10:13
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Change in the Modern World
>
> While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the
> groups asked me about the
> quick-time poussette.
>
> It started off with a question about whether the man needed
> to start on his left
> foot.
>
> This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the
> best answer I could, saying
> that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz
> / polka around the other
> couple.
>
> They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque,
> (with the possibility of
> an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I
> explained that as the
> decision had been made so many years ago it would be
> impossible to change it.
>
> I think they had trouble with this answer.
>
> It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete
> political system in a
> country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision
> made by the RSCDS about
> which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
> I must say I found that rather disturbing.
>
> Malcolm
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58818 · Anselm Lingnau · 31 May 2010 15:55:26 · Top

Oberdan Otto wrote:

> When we dance the Poussette, we are directly in front of out partner.
> However, when we Waltz, we are in a closed position in which the lady
> is slightly offset to the Man's right side, so, if she stepped
> forward with her right foot it would go between her partners feet,
> not onto his left foot.

Yes, but that would presumably be the genteel ballroom-style waltz, not the
hideous countryside threshing-floor type of push-me-pull-you that the founders
of the Society detested so much that they had to invent the modern poussette
to replace it. I presume that if Miss Milligan had seen you waltz she probably
would have written the movement into every other dance on purpose.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so
simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make
it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. -- C. A. R. Hoare

Change in the Modern World

Message 58819 · Mike Briggs · 31 May 2010 16:07:17 · Top

OK, the quick-time poussette is in open rather than closed position. That being so, it made perfect sense to me as an adoptive Wisconsinite to start it on the left foot, like a polka (which is our official state dance).


Mike Briggs
1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA
+1 608 835 0914 (voice)
+1 608 237 2379 (fax)

________________________________
From: Oberdan Otto <ootto@ootto.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 8:12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

I heard Malcolm's explanation many years ago when I was a fledgling dancer.

When we dance the Poussette, we are directly in front of out partner. However, when we Waltz, we are in a closed position in which the lady is slightly offset to the Man's right side, so, if she stepped forward with her right foot it would go between her partners feet, not onto his left foot. So it is curious that we kept one part of the Waltz mechanism (opposite footwork) while throwing away the aspect that made it work well (partner offset to the right).

However, I must confess that in several decades of dancing, the number of times my jete has touched my partner's I can count on one hand. It is a very low probability event, especially if you take into account that we are directing the jete toward the direction in which the couple is moving.

Cheers, Oberdan.

On May 31, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Ian & Vicki Brown wrote:

> Ah, for the first time, an explanation for the left foot
> rule that I can believe.
>
> However, in my view the questioner is quite right, the rule
> is perverse. In my experience the possibility of an
> intersecting jeté is more than a possibility - it is a
> probability. The good news is that if this rule were
> dropped then those who prefer to dance with the right foot
> first could do so whilst others could carry on with their
> left. No-one else in the set would be affected (except the
> dancers' partners, who might expect to be kicked less
> often).
>
> In other words, how about a coalition of the right footers
> and the left?
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
> Sent: 31 May 2010 10:13
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Change in the Modern World
>
> While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the
> groups asked me about the
> quick-time poussette.
>
> It started off with a question about whether the man needed
> to start on his left
> foot.
>
> This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the
> best answer I could, saying
> that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz
> / polka around the other
> couple.
>
> They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque,
> (with the possibility of
> an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I
> explained that as the
> decision had been made so many years ago it would be
> impossible to change it.
>
> I think they had trouble with this answer.
>
> It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete
> political system in a
> country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision
> made by the RSCDS about
> which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
> I must say I found that rather disturbing.
>
> Malcolm
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58836 · Pia Walker · 1 Jun 2010 15:40:22 · Top

We could issue badges at the beginning of an evening, so people could
determine if they wanted to dance a particular dance with someone :>)

Or split the sets up so at the left hand side it would be dancers who
preferred going left, to the right those who use right and the ones in the
middle who are still deciding, but who may change their opinions at some
stage :>)

Sounds a bit like Westminster!!!!!!!

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian & Vicki Brown [mailto:ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 10:37
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Change in the Modern World

Ah, for the first time, an explanation for the left foot
rule that I can believe.

However, in my view the questioner is quite right, the rule
is perverse. In my experience the possibility of an
intersecting jeté is more than a possibility - it is a
probability. The good news is that if this rule were
dropped then those who prefer to dance with the right foot
first could do so whilst others could carry on with their
left. No-one else in the set would be affected (except the
dancers' partners, who might expect to be kicked less
often).

In other words, how about a coalition of the right footers
and the left?

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 10:13
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Change in the Modern World

While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the
groups asked me about the
quick-time poussette.

It started off with a question about whether the man needed
to start on his left
foot.

This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the
best answer I could, saying
that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz
/ polka around the other
couple.

They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque,
(with the possibility of
an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I
explained that as the
decision had been made so many years ago it would be
impossible to change it.

I think they had trouble with this answer.

It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete
political system in a
country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision
made by the RSCDS about
which foot the man should use to start a poussette.

I must say I found that rather disturbing.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Change in the Modern World

Message 58811 · Anselm Lingnau · 31 May 2010 12:21:38 · Top

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system
> in a country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by
> the RSCDS about which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
> I must say I found that rather disturbing.

I don't have a lot of time just now, so here are just two thoughts:

- Starting the poussette on the left foot is part of the spice in the soup
of SCD that makes it tasty and interesting. Yes, we could change it to
»right« or not specify it altogether. We could also get rid of pas de
basque altogether which would certainly do wonders for new beginners and
make SCD that much more accessible and »fun«.

- As far as the »Russia vs. RSCDS« thing goes: Look up »bikeshedding« in
Wikipedia.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Change in the Modern World

Message 58812 · Lee Fuell · 31 May 2010 14:11:49 · Top

Malcolm,

If I as first man spring backwards with my right, instead of left, foot, and my partner springs forward with her right foot, there is a risk that her right foot will land on my left (supporting) foot, which IMO would create more of a risk of a stumble or fall than intersecting jetes. By both dancers starting on their "top" foot, this is avoided.

Plus, I find it very visually appealing to watch four good dancers dance a quick-time pousette in rhythm with their feet mirroring each other.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
>Sent: May 31, 2010 5:13 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: Change in the Modern World
>
>While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the groups asked me about the
>quick-time poussette.
>
>It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on his left
>foot.
>
>This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I could, saying
>that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz / polka around the other
>couple.
>
>They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque, (with the possibility of
>an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I explained that as the
>decision had been made so many years ago it would be impossible to change it.
>
>I think they had trouble with this answer.
>
>It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system in a
>country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the RSCDS about
>which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
>I must say I found that rather disturbing.
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York (UK)
>
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58813 · Maximillian Murphy · 31 May 2010 14:50:04 · Top

> >It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system in a
> >country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the RSCDS about
> >which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
> >
> >I must say I found that rather disturbing.

You don't need to dance as the RSCDS dictates except when in RSCDS circles, when of course it is de rigeur. Indeed for historical accuracy it is often necessary to deviate. The RSCDS is after all a very young society*, something that people are apt to forget because of its enormous (and largely beneficial) influence. SCD is traditional and traditions invariably have variations. If it's fun and won't destroy the dance, then deviate. That's my habit anyway. :-) Chances are that if it's an old dance, somebody will have thought of and danced that variation before the RSCDS was founded, and if it's a new dance, why should the tradition of making up variations be stopped?

That said, I personally do generally prefer matching feet in the pousette for precisely the reasons given by the last poster. Deviate but don't force the standard to change. That would be unkind to the rest of us! :-)

Regards, Max
--
Mynataur <m@de-minimis.co.uk>

* The society where I learnt to dance is a little less than three times as old as the RSCDS.

Change in the Modern World

Message 58814 · Mike Briggs · 31 May 2010 14:54:34 · Top

I was told once that SCD is like golf. Both were invented in Scotland. A long time ago. Both are controlled by boards made up of senior citizens. Both involve bursts of activity punctuated by stretches of doing nothing much. Both end where they start. And both have extensive sets of arcane rules.

Mike


1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA
+1 608 835 0914 (voice)
+1 608 237 2379 (fax)

________________________________
From: Lee Fuell <fuell@mindspring.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 7:11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

Malcolm,

If I as first man spring backwards with my right, instead of left, foot, and my partner springs forward with her right foot, there is a risk that her right foot will land on my left (supporting) foot, which IMO would create more of a risk of a stumble or fall than intersecting jetes. By both dancers starting on their "top" foot, this is avoided.

Plus, I find it very visually appealing to watch four good dancers dance a quick-time pousette in rhythm with their feet mirroring each other.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
>Sent: May 31, 2010 5:13 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: Change in the Modern World
>
>While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the groups asked me about the
>quick-time poussette.
>
>It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on his left
>foot.
>
>This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I could, saying
>that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz / polka around the other
>couple.
>
>They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque, (with the possibility of
>an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I explained that as the
>decision had been made so many years ago it would be impossible to change it.
>
>I think they had trouble with this answer.
>
>It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system in a
>country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the RSCDS about
>which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
>I must say I found that rather disturbing.
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York (UK)
>
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58815 · Anselm Lingnau · 31 May 2010 15:12:20 · Top

Mike Briggs wrote:

> I was told once that SCD is like golf. Both were invented in Scotland. A
> long time ago. Both are controlled by boards made up of senior citizens.
> Both involve bursts of activity punctuated by stretches of doing nothing
> much. Both end where they start. And both have extensive sets of arcane
> rules.

I like this. But (as attendees of the Kaleidoscope conference have heard
before) the Scots have as much of a traditional right to »control« Scottish
country dancing as the French have to »control« French kissing, i.e., none
whatsoever -- because after all the Scots no more »invented« SCD than the
French »invented« French kissing, they just borrowed it for a while, and from
the English at that. (There certainly were -- and are -- some Scots who
dedicated themselves to perfecting the art form but that is a completely
different issue altogether.)

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
The future's already here; it just isn't evenly distributed. -- William Gibson

Change in the Modern World

Message 58838 · Pia Walker · 1 Jun 2010 15:43:33 · Top

Golf cannot have been invented in Scotland - it is a game where one may
loose the ball.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Norma or Mike Briggs [mailto:briggslaw@yahoo.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 13:55
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

I was told once that SCD is like golf. Both were invented in Scotland. A
long time ago. Both are controlled by boards made up of senior citizens.
Both involve bursts of activity punctuated by stretches of doing nothing
much. Both end where they start. And both have extensive sets of arcane
rules.

Mike

1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA
+1 608 835 0914 (voice)
+1 608 237 2379 (fax)

________________________________
From: Lee Fuell <fuell@mindspring.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 7:11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

Malcolm,

If I as first man spring backwards with my right, instead of left, foot, and
my partner springs forward with her right foot, there is a risk that her
right foot will land on my left (supporting) foot, which IMO would create
more of a risk of a stumble or fall than intersecting jetes. By both
dancers starting on their "top" foot, this is avoided.

Plus, I find it very visually appealing to watch four good dancers dance a
quick-time pousette in rhythm with their feet mirroring each other.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
>Sent: May 31, 2010 5:13 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: Change in the Modern World
>
>While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the groups asked me
about the
>quick-time poussette.
>
>It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on his
left
>foot.
>
>This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I
could, saying
>that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz / polka around
the other
>couple.
>
>They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque, (with the
possibility of
>an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I explained that as
the
>decision had been made so many years ago it would be impossible to change
it.
>
>I think they had trouble with this answer.
>
>It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system
in a
>country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the
RSCDS about
>which foot the man should use to start a poussette.
>
>I must say I found that rather disturbing.
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York (UK)
>
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58841 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 1 Jun 2010 16:53:28 · Top

To Pia, golf was not invented in Scotland, it was brought there from the Netherlands. Going backwards from there there are many diverse paths..

Change in the Modern World

Message 58843 · Pia Walker · 1 Jun 2010 17:10:42 · Top

so I was right :>)

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: GOSS9@telefonica.net [mailto:GOSS9@telefonica.net]
Sent: 01 June 2010 15:53
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Change in the Modern World

To Pia, golf was not invented in Scotland, it was brought there from the Netherlands. Going backwards from there there are many diverse paths..

Change in the Modern World

Message 58857 · Thomas G. Mungall, III · 1 Jun 2010 21:22:32 · Top

Nice bit of revisionist history!

Tom Mungall
Baton Rouge, La.
----- Original Message -----
From: <GOSS9@telefonica.net>

> To Pia, golf was not invented in Scotland, it was brought there from the
> Netherlands. Going backwards from there there are many diverse paths..
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Change in the Modern World

Message 58866 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 2 Jun 2010 09:07:51 · Top

To be revisionist a history must have a prior version to be revised. What history says golf was invented in Scotland?

Change in the Modern World

Message 58867 · Eric Kean · 2 Jun 2010 09:26:48 · Top

Feb 1744 - Top Ten facts to make Scotland the home of golf 1.The
rules of golf were first drawn up and played at Edinburghs Leith Links in
1744. 2.Scotlands Castle & Whisky Country in the North East has over 52 golf
courses, one for each week of the year.With free tee times up for grabs at
over 50 of Scotlands courses, and a range of associated discounts and deals,
this years biggest golf push is on course to persuade even more golfers to
Drive It Home. Top Ten facts to make Scotland the home of golf 1.The rules
of golf were first drawn up and played at Edinburghs Leith Links in 1744.
2.Scotlands Castle & Whisky Country in the North East has over 52 golf
courses, one for each week of the year.
Show more
Show less
From Play Golf in Scotland with Ryder Cup Legend - News - FOX Sports
on … - Related web pages
msn.foxsports

----- Original Message -----
From: <GOSS9@telefonica.net>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

> To be revisionist a history must have a prior version to be revised. What
> history says golf was invented in Scotland?
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58874 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 2 Jun 2010 22:54:41 · Top

Sorry Keans, after the fact facts do not make my version revisionary. Your dates are 1700´s, golf came to Scotland around the 13c.

Change in the Modern World

Message 58868 · Anselm Lingnau · 2 Jun 2010 09:28:39 · Top

GOSS9@telefonica.net wrote:

> What history says golf was invented in Scotland?

Probably the same one that says SCD was invented in Scotland ...

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Most things in life take some tumbles before we get it right. As Thomas Edison
said, when asked how it felt to fail 10,000 times before he figured out the
light bulb, »I haven't failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.«
-- Lenore Skenazy

Off-Topic Golf History was Change in the Modern World

Message 58870 · Thomas G. Mungall, III · 2 Jun 2010 14:58:46 · Top

From various quotes about the origins of golf in Scotland:
"...the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century..."

"golf as we know it today originated from a game played on the eastern coast
of Scotland in the Kingdom of Fife during the 15th century."

"Some historians believe that Kolven from Holland and Chole from Belgium
influenced the game. The latter was introduced into Scotland in 1421.
However while these games and countless others are stick and ball games,
they are missing that vital ingredient that is unique to golf - the hole.
Whatever the argument, there can be no dispute that Scotland gave birth to
the game we know as golf today.

During the mid-15th century, Scotland was preparing to defend itself against
an English invasion. The population's enthusiastic pursuit of golf and
soccer to the neglect of military training (archery primarily) caused the
Scottish parliament of King James II to ban both sports in 1457. The ban was
reaffirmed in 1470 and 1491 although people largely ignored it. Only in 1502
with the Treaty of Glasgow was the ban lifted with King James I (James 1 of
England) himself taking up the sport."

"There is general agreement that the Scots were the earliest of golf addicts
but who actually invented the game is open to debate. We know that golf has
existed for at least 500 years because James II of Scotland, in an Act of
Parliament dated March 6, 1457, had golf and football banned because these
sports were interfering too much with archery practice sorely needed by the
loyal defenders of the Scottish realm! It has been suggested that bored
shepherds tending flocks of sheep near St. Andrews became adept at hitting
rounded stones into rabbits holes with their wooden crooks. And so a legend
that persists to this day was born!
Various forms of games resembling golf were played as early as the
fourteenth century by sportsmen in Holland, Belgium and France as well as in
Scotland. But it was a keen Scottish Baron, James VI, who brought the game
to England when he succeeded to the English throne in 1603. For many years
the game was played on rough terrain without proper greens, just crude holes
cut into the ground where the surface was reasonably flat!"

"Golf originated from a game played on the coast of Scotland during the 15th
century. Golfers would hit a pebble instead of a ball around the sand dunes
using a stick or club. After 1750, golf evolved into the sport as we
recognize it today. In 1774, Edinburgh golfers wrote the first standardized
rules for the game of golf."

The following site is quite good about the history of golf:
http://www.scottishgolfhistory.net/

also a neat timeline here: http://tinyurl.com/26ekp3z

Yours aye,

Tom Mungall

Baton Rouge, La, USA

----- Original Message -----
From: <GOSS9@telefonica.net>

> To be revisionist a history must have a prior version to be revised. What
> history says golf was invented in Scotland?
>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58878 · Maximillian Murphy · 3 Jun 2010 11:54:34 · Top

> To be revisionist a history must have a prior version to be revised. What history says golf was invented in Scotland?

Besides, invention is a fine thing but developing and popularising an idea deserves credit too. All hail, John Napier, Laird of Merchistoun and student at St Andrews who brought the decimal point into common use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Napier

All hail the RSCDS, repopulariser of Scottish country dance.

(link omitted)

Regards, Max
--
Mynataur <m@de-minimis.co.uk>

Change in the Modern World

Message 58837 · Pia Walker · 1 Jun 2010 15:42:09 · Top

Ah but you will fall backwards and that would be soo interesting for your partner who would fall forwards :>)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Fuell [mailto:fuell@mindspring.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 13:12
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Change in the Modern World

Malcolm,

If I as first man spring backwards with my right, instead of left, foot, and my partner springs forward with her right foot, there is a risk that her right foot will land on my left (supporting) foot, which IMO would create more of a risk of a stumble or fall than intersecting jetes. By both dancers starting on their "top" foot, this is avoided.

Plus, I find it very visually appealing to watch four good dancers dance a quick-time pousette in rhythm with their feet mirroring each other.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

Change in the Modern World

Message 58822 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 31 May 2010 17:51:36 · Top

In response to Anselm´s: spice, tasty, interesting, etc., I get the feeling that for some who need these things, SCD has simply become boring without such. I feel that it is these little fiddly bits that make SCD so esoteric that it becomes less popular as a result. The dancers, and especially beginners, get to tied up in illogical rules, exceptions, historical errors, impossible choriographies, historical errors, etc., that many simply say "why bother" and either move on or never progress to actually enjoying the dancing as a social activity. The result is that the RSCDS becomes a more and more exclusive antisocial activity, as opposed to an inclusive social one.

Change in the Modern World

Message 58823 · Bruce Herbold · 31 May 2010 19:24:19 · Top

Well all the irrefutable (in my mind) reasons for opposite foot use in
poussette have been covered (the jetes are going backward for one
person each so risk of collision is very low [unless one's legs are
VERY short or long], contrariwise teh risk of being stepped on is
high, and the rhythmic fun of dancing with most partners instead of
the push me pull you that ensues from same foot use, etc...)

However a dear friend and fellow dance teacher feels strongly
opposite, so I wrote him a birthday dance this year which begins with
1s and 3s crossed over. Circle 4 hands round and back into
poussette....

I defy anyone to come up with a clear foot use rule for this
configuration of dancers and figures.

Bruce Herbold
(aka troublemaker)

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 8:51 AM, GOSS9@telefonica.net
<GOSS9@telefonica.net> wrote:
> In response to Anselm´s: spice, tasty, interesting, etc., I get the feeling that for some who need these things, SCD has simply become boring without such. I feel that it is these little fiddly bits that make SCD so esoteric that it becomes less popular as a result. The dancers, and especially beginners, get to tied up in illogical rules, exceptions, historical errors, impossible choriographies, historical errors, etc., that many simply say "why bother" and either move on or never progress to actually enjoying the dancing as a social activity. The result is that the RSCDS becomes a more and more exclusive antisocial activity, as opposed to an inclusive social one.
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Change in the Modern World

Message 58821 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 31 May 2010 17:39:03 · Top

Actually, as you implied there is no reason for the rule in the first place beyond the fact that we simply postdated a ball room convention into an historic movement that does not require it. In fact, if the jeté is properly placed in 3rd position aerial low, one is kicking one´s partner on each bar. There is another built in problem and that is that one partner must make a change of foot transition before and after this figure which makes for bad choreography.

As a teacher, I always taught it "by the book" but when questoned, as in your Russian example, have always admitted that in social dancingt it really makes no difference and is much easier not to do these changes. The only RSCDS dance I can think of were it makes any difference, is in "Waltz Country Dance".

Personally, since it is not fixed in stone, it can easily be changed, by a a method using two phhhhases:
1. Stop insisting on a foot change.
2. And wait for the folk process to take over as the brainwishhed die out.

Change in the Modern World

Message 58826 · Malcolm Austen · 31 May 2010 22:02:30 · Top

On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:13:18 +0100, mlamontbrown
<mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on
> his left foot.
> This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I
> could, saying that I thought it was related to when it was more of a
> waltz / polka around the other couple.

I've just read through this thread and see no reason to defect from what I
was taught long ago. In a quick-time setting there is a change of weight
between feet and with that some, if not much, sideways movement of the
body or at least the upper part of it. Of course, the movement is less in
'good dancers' but not all dancers are good! So, which would you like, to
have the couple waddling side to side in opposition or swaying slightly in
time with each other?

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen, Oxfordshire, England

Change in the Modern World

Message 58835 · Pia Walker · 1 Jun 2010 15:37:25 · Top

He! He! He! He! He! He! He! He! He! He! He!

Malcolm - you have made my day - LOL

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 31 May 2010 10:13
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Change in the Modern World

While I was in Russia recently a teacher of one of the groups asked me about
the
quick-time poussette.

It started off with a question about whether the man needed to start on his
left
foot.

This was followed up with the question "why"? I gave the best answer I
could, saying
that I thought it was related to when it was more of a waltz / polka around
the other
couple.

They then asked why, since we were now using pas de basque, (with the
possibility of
an intersecting jeté), we didn't change the rule, - So I explained that as
the
decision had been made so many years ago it would be impossible to change
it.

I think they had trouble with this answer.

It made me realise that it was easier to change a complete political system
in a
country the size of Russia than it was to change a decision made by the
RSCDS about
which foot the man should use to start a poussette.

I must say I found that rather disturbing.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

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