strathspey Archive: Ms Katy B

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Ms Katy B

Message 58215 · Ian Brown · 8 Mar 2010 15:22:40 · Top

I'd like to teach this dance, the instructions for which are
included with the very fine CD "Piano Dance" by James Gray.
However, my reading of the instructions leaves all four
couples improper after the spurtle! Can anyone clarify the
final four bars, please?


Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club


Ms Katy B

Message 58216 · Jim Healy · 8 Mar 2010 16:20:02 · Top

Ian,

The spurtle is the last 16 bars of this dance for a lovely young lady. The standard formation is:

Bars
17 - 28 3 x half reels of four, all finishing on opposite sides
29 - 32 set and, giving right hands, cross to own side

Does that help?

Jim Healy
Perth Scotland

_________________________________________________________________________


Life is too short to drink cheap wine.

> From: ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Ms Katy B
> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:22:40 +0000
>
> I'd like to teach this dance, the instructions for which are
> included with the very fine CD "Piano Dance" by James Gray.
> However, my reading of the instructions leaves all four
> couples improper after the spurtle! Can anyone clarify the
> final four bars, please?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Ms Katy B

Message 58222 · Meinhard Reiser · 8 Mar 2010 18:42:56 · Top

Hi Ian and Meinhard,

I think that the official version of the spurtle is a 16 bar figure
which has cross and set (or possibly set and cross) as the last four
bars. I don't have the RSCDS books here, but if you look up the dance
"The Glens of Angus" in book 23 that has the spurtle then you can get
the definitive version of the last four bars.

Cheers,

James

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Meinhard Reiser <meinhard@debitel.net
<mailto:meinhard@debitel.net>> wrote:
James,
can you help?
Thank you
Meinhard

Am 08.03.2010 15:22, schrieb Ian & Vicki Brown:
> I'd like to teach this dance, the instructions for which are
> included with the very fine CD "Piano Dance" by James Gray.
> However, my reading of the instructions leaves all four
> couples improper after the spurtle! Can anyone clarify the
> final four bars, please?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Ditzingen, Germany

Ms Katy B

Message 58234 · Ian Brown · 9 Mar 2010 11:44:31 · Top

Thank you Meinhard, James and Jim

Set and cross over it is, according to The Glens of Angus,
though I gather from looking at various cribs that there
have been variations on the last four bars in other dances.

I had relied upon a definition of the spurtle on the web and
it had shown the figure as only 12 bar.

Thanks also, Jim, for making clear that Miss Katy B was not,
as I had understood, a kitten: a mistake made by conflating
the dance with the music written for it. I shall now enjoy
teaching, and I hope, dancing it.

Thanks again,

Ian
01423 567576

-----Original Message-----
From: Meinhard Reiser [mailto:meinhard@debitel.net]
Sent: 08 March 2010 17:43
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Ms Katy B

Hi Ian and Meinhard,

I think that the official version of the spurtle is a 16 bar
figure
which has cross and set (or possibly set and cross) as the
last four
bars. I don't have the RSCDS books here, but if you look up
the dance
"The Glens of Angus" in book 23 that has the spurtle then
you can get
the definitive version of the last four bars.

Cheers,

James

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Meinhard Reiser
<meinhard@debitel.net
<mailto:meinhard@debitel.net>> wrote:
James,
can you help?
Thank you
Meinhard

Am 08.03.2010 15:22, schrieb Ian & Vicki Brown:
> I'd like to teach this dance, the instructions for which
are
> included with the very fine CD "Piano Dance" by James
Gray.
> However, my reading of the instructions leaves all four
> couples improper after the spurtle! Can anyone clarify
the
> final four bars, please?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Ditzingen, Germany

Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

Message 58235 · Jim Healy · 9 Mar 2010 12:22:02 · Top

Greetings

The original instructions for The Glens of Angus in Book 23 finished the spurtle with bars 29-32 as cross over and set. This was found to be less satisfactory than set and cross over and it was changed (formally, from memory, in the first edition of the Manual).

Who says the Society is inflexible? (as opposed to some of those who claim to speak in its name) :0)

Jim Healy
Perth, Scotland

_________________________________________________________________________


Life is too short to drink cheap wine.

> From: ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org; jimhealy@hotmail.com; wjagray@googlemail.com; james@wjagray.co.uk
> Subject: RE: Ms Katy B
> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:44:31 +0000
>
> Thank you Meinhard, James and Jim
>
> Set and cross over it is, according to The Glens of Angus,
> though I gather from looking at various cribs that there
> have been variations on the last four bars in other dances.
>
> I had relied upon a definition of the spurtle on the web and
> it had shown the figure as only 12 bar.
>
> Thanks also, Jim, for making clear that Miss Katy B was not,
> as I had understood, a kitten: a mistake made by conflating
> the dance with the music written for it. I shall now enjoy
> teaching, and I hope, dancing it.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ian
> 01423 567576
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meinhard Reiser [mailto:meinhard@debitel.net]
> Sent: 08 March 2010 17:43
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: Ms Katy B
>
> Hi Ian and Meinhard,
>
> I think that the official version of the spurtle is a 16 bar
> figure
> which has cross and set (or possibly set and cross) as the
> last four
> bars. I don't have the RSCDS books here, but if you look up
> the dance
> "The Glens of Angus" in book 23 that has the spurtle then
> you can get
> the definitive version of the last four bars.
>
> Cheers,
>
> James
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Meinhard Reiser
> <meinhard@debitel.net
> <mailto:meinhard@debitel.net>> wrote:
> James,
> can you help?
> Thank you
> Meinhard
>
>
>
> Am 08.03.2010 15:22, schrieb Ian & Vicki Brown:
> > I'd like to teach this dance, the instructions for which
> are
> > included with the very fine CD "Piano Dance" by James
> Gray.
> > However, my reading of the instructions leaves all four
> > couples improper after the spurtle! Can anyone clarify
> the
> > final four bars, please?
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian Brown
> > Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Ditzingen, Germany
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Ministry of Truth

Message 58236 · Anselm Lingnau · 9 Mar 2010 13:28:22 · Top

Jim Healy wrote:

> The original instructions for The Glens of Angus in Book 23 finished the
> spurtle with bars 29-32 as cross over and set. This was found to be less
> satisfactory than set and cross over and it was changed (formally, from
> memory, in the first edition of the Manual).

Actually, The Golden Wedding Strathspey in Book 33, which AFAIK is the only
other dance in the RSCDS canon that contains the figure, already uses »set and
cross«.

> Who says the Society is inflexible?

No one here disagrees that the Society is quite flexible if it suits her.

It would be great for the Society not to operate in »Ministry of Truth« mode
when it comes to revising dance descriptions and the Manual. Looking at my
first edition of the Manual I note that the description of the Spurtle does
finish with »set and cross« but there is no note to the effect that it used to
be the other way round in »Glens of Angus«, where the tartan edition of Book
23 is still »current« (as in, never revised) 18 years after the first edition
of the Manual came out.

True, the notes on the dance itself »fix« this by saying »All four couples set
and cross over giving right hand« but again there is no indication that this
is deliberately different from what is in the original dance description. What
would have been wrong with »All four couples set and cross over giving right
hand (NB. We think that this works a lot better than the »cross over giving
right hand and set« in the original, see also page 6.54 for The Spurtle).«?

I've only had time for a very quick glance through the Strategic Plan but the
words »transparency« and »accountability« don't seem to appear in it. I think
it would be a very worthwhile improvement for the Society to keep track of
changes to its published materials in a very visible location -- especially
since the older dance books get revised not every teacher will get around to
buying new editions as they come out and then comparing them side by side to
see what is different. Of course this means a departure from the popular
mindset of »Mommy knows best« but as the Society seems to be willing to take
turns for the better as far as interaction with the membership is concerned,
this would fit right in.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Live now. There'll be plenty of time to be dead later. -- Anon.

Ministry of Truth

Message 58239 · Steve Johnson · 9 Mar 2010 14:47:11 · Top

Genau das, Anselm!

I can't think of any other standards body (in my professional life, I deal
with several) which behaves like this. How much better it would be if we
had change notices and version tracking (to say nothing of discussion of why
the changes were occurring)....

I'll happily volunteer some free labour to set up and run such a system (via
a web site, naturally) if this would help.

best regards

Steve
--
Steve Johnson
sj@rapid.demon.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
Sent: Tuesday 09 March 2010 12:28
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Ministry of Truth (was: Spurtle)

Jim Healy wrote:

> The original instructions for The Glens of Angus in Book 23 finished
> the spurtle with bars 29-32 as cross over and set. This was found to
> be less satisfactory than set and cross over and it was changed
> (formally, from memory, in the first edition of the Manual).

Actually, The Golden Wedding Strathspey in Book 33, which AFAIK is the only
other dance in the RSCDS canon that contains the figure, already uses >set
and cross<.

> Who says the Society is inflexible?

No one here disagrees that the Society is quite flexible if it suits her.

It would be great for the Society not to operate in >Ministry of Truth< mode
when it comes to revising dance descriptions and the Manual. Looking at my
first edition of the Manual I note that the description of the Spurtle does
finish with >set and cross< but there is no note to the effect that it used
to be the other way round in >Glens of Angus<, where the tartan edition of
Book
23 is still >current< (as in, never revised) 18 years after the first
edition of the Manual came out.

True, the notes on the dance itself >fix< this by saying >All four couples
set and cross over giving right hand< but again there is no indication that
this is deliberately different from what is in the original dance
description. What would have been wrong with >All four couples set and cross
over giving right hand (NB. We think that this works a lot better than the
>cross over giving right hand and set< in the original, see also page 6.54
for The Spurtle).<?

I've only had time for a very quick glance through the Strategic Plan but
the words >transparency< and >accountability< don't seem to appear in it. I
think it would be a very worthwhile improvement for the Society to keep
track of changes to its published materials in a very visible location --
especially since the older dance books get revised not every teacher will
get around to buying new editions as they come out and then comparing them
side by side to see what is different. Of course this means a departure from
the popular mindset of >Mommy knows best< but as the Society seems to be
willing to take turns for the better as far as interaction with the
membership is concerned, this would fit right in.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
anselm@strathspey.org
Live now. There'll be plenty of time to be dead later. --
Anon.

Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

Message 58237 · mlamontbrown · 9 Mar 2010 13:39:39 · Top

Helen & I purchased our copy of Book 23 in 1971 (it was published in 1967), and it
still contains the small errata slip enclosed at the front stating,

THE GLENS OF ANGUS
Bars 29-32 change to set and cross over

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Healy [mailto:jimhealy@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 09 March 2010 11:22
> To: Strathspey List
> Subject: Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)
>
>
> Greetings
>
> The original instructions for The Glens of Angus in Book 23 finished the spurtle
with bars 29-
> 32 as cross over and set. This was found to be less satisfactory than set and cross
over and it
> was changed (formally, from memory, in the first edition of the Manual).
>
> Who says the Society is inflexible? (as opposed to some of those who claim to speak
in its
> name) :0)
>
> Jim Healy
> Perth, Scotland
>
>

Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

Message 58238 · Anselm Lingnau · 9 Mar 2010 14:35:19 · Top

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> Helen & I purchased our copy of Book 23 in 1971 (it was published in 1967),
> and it still contains the small errata slip enclosed at the front stating,
>
> THE GLENS OF ANGUS
> Bars 29-32 change to set and cross over

I bought mine in 1994 and it didn't contain anything of the sort. (I know
because I always immediately copy whatever these things say to near where it
actually applies in the actual book -- I'm too good at misplacing these slips
otherwise.) It does have a »₤2·50« sticker over the original price of »4/6
net«, though :^)

I added an explanatory note to the dance's entry in the online dance database
describing the change.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Awwww, don't be so hard on these religious folks, PZ. I mean, if you'd spent
all of your life venerating some make-believe stuff that was obviously crazy,
you'd be sensitive to any criticism too.
-- Richard Harris to PZ Myers, on Catholic hate mail, »Pharyngula«

Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

Message 58252 · Iain Boyd · 9 Mar 2010 21:43:57 · Top

My original subscription copy has no erratum and has not been corrected.

Consequently, I would teach the dance incorrectly (unless someone in the class pointed out the change to me) as I do not check the Manual unless the original instructions are unclear!

Iain Boyd

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404

Wellington

New Zealand

--- On Wed, 10/3/10, mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
Subject: RE: Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Received: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010, 1:39 AM

Helen & I purchased our copy of Book 23 in 1971 (it was published in 1967), and it
still contains the small errata slip enclosed at the front stating,

THE GLENS OF ANGUS
Bars 29-32 change to set and cross over

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York  (UK)


Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

Message 58253 · John Arthur · 10 Mar 2010 00:33:07 · Top

My copy of Book 23 also contains an errata slip which includes, among other
things, a note that in The Glens of Angus - bars 29-32 change to set and
cross over.

John Arthur
Canberra
----- Original Message -----
From: "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)

> Helen & I purchased our copy of Book 23 in 1971 (it was published in
> 1967), and it
> still contains the small errata slip enclosed at the front stating,
>
> THE GLENS OF ANGUS
> Bars 29-32 change to set and cross over
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Healy [mailto:jimhealy@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: 09 March 2010 11:22
>> To: Strathspey List
>> Subject: Spurtle (was Ms Katy B)
>>
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> The original instructions for The Glens of Angus in Book 23 finished the
>> spurtle
> with bars 29-
>> 32 as cross over and set. This was found to be less satisfactory than set
>> and cross
> over and it
>> was changed (formally, from memory, in the first edition of the Manual).
>>
>> Who says the Society is inflexible? (as opposed to some of those who
>> claim to speak
> in its
>> name) :0)
>>
>> Jim Healy
>> Perth, Scotland
>>
>>

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