strathspey Archive: strathspey setting step

Previous thread: RSCDS Membership database
Next thread: Opp/Same Gender Dancing (was strathspey setting step)

strathspey setting step

Message 57494 · Ian Brown · 3 Dec 2009 10:33:51 · Top

I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.


Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
should he be?


I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
this coming season?


Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club


strathspey setting step

Message 57495 · George Watt · 3 Dec 2009 10:58:29 · Top

I hope kilts will not be worn longer! I see too many kilts dangling well below the knee as it is.

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131


> From: ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: strathspey setting step
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:33:51 +0000
>
> I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
> correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
> past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
> noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
> definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
> longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>
>
>
> Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
> this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
> wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
> should he be?
>
>
>
> I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
> stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
> gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
> this coming season?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394592/direct/01/

strathspey setting step

Message 57496 · Martin Campoveja · 3 Dec 2009 11:16:21 · Top

2009/12/3 Ian & Vicki Brown wrote:
> ... What has changed is the
> definition of what is correct. (...)
>  Whether or not he is correct, should he be?

Change should not be a problem for Scottish country dancers -- always
ready for unexpected, occult novelties, especially if they belong to
the RSCDS.

"Ours is not to reason why ..."

Martin

strathspey setting step

Message 57497 · sophie.rickebusch · 3 Dec 2009 12:08:09 · Top

I've always heard that men "could" lift the foot higher, ie. it was
allowed and at the man's discretion. I'm not aware of any change
regarding that. Of course, if you're dancing in a dem team, your
teacher may want you to all do the same thing (and may have personal
preferences as to which). If that's the only criticism anyone has about
your setting step, I wouldn't worry too much! As a teacher, I would not
pick that up as a fault, unless it's really too high, ie. up behind the
knee.

Since the Met Office's seasonal forecast for northern Europe is a 50
percent chance of this winter being milder than average (and only 20
percent chance of it being colder), men might be well advised not to
drop their hemlines this coming season ;-)

Sophie

----Original Message----
From: ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com
Date: Dec 3, 2009 9:33
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Subject: strathspey setting step

I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.

Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
should he be?

I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
this coming season?

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

strathspey setting step

Message 57498 · Pia Walker · 3 Dec 2009 12:17:06 · Top

Well if that is a new thing - an awful lot of us teaching out there, probably haven't heard about it.

With regards to men and the position of their foot - I suppose, if the step starts looking over emphasised, and 'angled', I would try and get the dancer to lower the foot, somewhat - perhaps in a diplomatic manner :>)

pia

-----Original Message-----
From: sophie.rickebusch@o2.co.uk [mailto:sophie.rickebusch@o2.co.uk]
Sent: 03 December 2009 11:08
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: strathspey setting step

I've always heard that men "could" lift the foot higher, ie. it was
allowed and at the man's discretion. I'm not aware of any change
regarding that. Of course, if you're dancing in a dem team, your
teacher may want you to all do the same thing (and may have personal
preferences as to which). If that's the only criticism anyone has about
your setting step, I wouldn't worry too much! As a teacher, I would not
pick that up as a fault, unless it's really too high, ie. up behind the
knee.

Since the Met Office's seasonal forecast for northern Europe is a 50
percent chance of this winter being milder than average (and only 20
percent chance of it being colder), men might be well advised not to
drop their hemlines this coming season ;-)

Sophie

----Original Message----
From: ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com
Date: Dec 3, 2009 9:33
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Subject: strathspey setting step

I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.

Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
should he be?

I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
this coming season?

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

strathspey setting step

Message 57499 · Angus Henry · 3 Dec 2009 13:08:48 · Top

No, Ian
In these days of inconsistency and constant change the answer is just to wear high heels!

Angus

On 03/12/2009, at 7:03 PM, Ian & Vicki Brown wrote:

> I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
> correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
> past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
> noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
> definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
> longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>
>
>
> Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
> this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
> wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
> should he be?
>
>
>
> I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
> stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
> gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
> this coming season?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

Angus & Puka Henry
DARWIN, AUSTRALIA
Website: <http://www.users.on.net/~anguka/>

strathspey setting step

Message 57500 · Pia Walker · 3 Dec 2009 13:14:02 · Top

ONLY if your kilt has a flounced edge - preferably in lace (that way your
petticoat won't show either).

BUT the lace has to match your tights that again has to match your hose.

AND of course those diamantee brogues.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Angus Henry [mailto:anguka@internode.on.net]
Sent: 03 December 2009 12:09
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: strathspey setting step

No, Ian
In these days of inconsistency and constant change the answer is just to
wear high heels!

Angus

On 03/12/2009, at 7:03 PM, Ian & Vicki Brown wrote:

> I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
> correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
> past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
> noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
> definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
> longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>
>
>
> Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
> this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
> wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
> should he be?
>
>
>
> I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
> stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
> gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
> this coming season?
>
>
>
> Ian Brown
> Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

Angus & Puka Henry
DARWIN, AUSTRALIA
Website: <http://www.users.on.net/~anguka/>

strathspey setting step

Message 57501 · Lee Fuell · 3 Dec 2009 14:28:21 · Top

Ian,

Lots of responses to your question, but no answers - let me try to rectify that.

The current version of the RSCDS Manual, issued in 2005, makes no mention of different foot placement height for men versus women on the lift at the end of the strathspey setting step.

"With a soft hop on the right foot, draw the left foot slowly up behind the right leg, knee well turned out, toe just above the supporting heel and the side of the left foot just against the back of the right leg."

As a beginning dancer, I was taught the same way you were - men's feet higher than women's. I remember being told about this change around the time the new manual was issued. I expect there are a number of teachers out there who obtained their certificates before 2005 who may not have noticed this change.

So your adviser is technically correct. When I teach the step, I teach it per the manual, but when teaching experienced dancers I don't try to correct men who are doing it the old way because we're only talking about a couple of inches difference and I just don't think it's that big a deal as long as the basic character of the step is intact. If I have a male dancer who is jerking his foot up in an abrupt or exaggerated way, trying to get it really high on the back of his leg to the point where it makes what should be a smooth movement look really awkward, I might address that, but more because it's disrupting the rhythm of the step than because of an inch or two of toe height. Ultimately, unless you're an RSCDS teacher candidate or a competitive festival dancer, I wouldn't advise worrying too much about it.

I hope this clears things up for you,

Lee

RSCDS Cincinnati Branch
Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian & Vicki Brown <ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2009 4:33 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: strathspey setting step
>
>I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
>correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
>past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
>noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
>definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
>longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>
>
>
>Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
>this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of the
>wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
>should he be?
>
>
>
>I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set less
>stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
>gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
>this coming season?
>
>
>
>Ian Brown
>Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57502 · Ian Brown · 3 Dec 2009 15:07:14 · Top

I am indebted to all for much advice of a sartorial nature
but particularly to Lee and to one private correspondent who
have pointed out to me that what I always knew to be true
has certainly not been true since 1992.

I am somewhat ashamed to say that I have a copy of the 1992
manual on my bookshelf but was so confident of my knowledge
that I didn't even bother to check it. I am humbled!

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Fuell [mailto:fuell@mindspring.com]
Sent: 03 December 2009 13:28
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: strathspey setting step

Ian,

Lots of responses to your question, but no answers - let me
try to rectify that.

The current version of the RSCDS Manual, issued in 2005,
makes no mention of different foot placement height for men
versus women on the lift at the end of the strathspey
setting step.

"With a soft hop on the right foot, draw the left foot
slowly up behind the right leg, knee well turned out, toe
just above the supporting heel and the side of the left foot
just against the back of the right leg."

As a beginning dancer, I was taught the same way you were -
men's feet higher than women's. I remember being told about
this change around the time the new manual was issued. I
expect there are a number of teachers out there who obtained
their certificates before 2005 who may not have noticed this
change.

So your adviser is technically correct. When I teach the
step, I teach it per the manual, but when teaching
experienced dancers I don't try to correct men who are doing
it the old way because we're only talking about a couple of
inches difference and I just don't think it's that big a
deal as long as the basic character of the step is intact.
If I have a male dancer who is jerking his foot up in an
abrupt or exaggerated way, trying to get it really high on
the back of his leg to the point where it makes what should
be a smooth movement look really awkward, I might address
that, but more because it's disrupting the rhythm of the
step than because of an inch or two of toe height.
Ultimately, unless you're an RSCDS teacher candidate or a
competitive festival dancer, I wouldn't advise worrying too
much about it.

I hope this clears things up for you,

Lee

RSCDS Cincinnati Branch
Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian & Vicki Brown <ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2009 4:33 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: strathspey setting step
>
>I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
>correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
>past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
>noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
>definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
>longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>
>
>
>Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
>this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of
the
>wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
>should he be?
>
>
>
>I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set
less
>stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
>gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
>this coming season?
>
>
>
>Ian Brown
>Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
>
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57503 · Lee Fuell · 3 Dec 2009 16:30:27 · Top

You're welcome, Ian. I have humbled myself by being over-confident in my knowledge more times than I can count, most recently less than two weeks ago by mis-teaching a dance I thought I knew by heart. Fortunately one of the other teachers helped correct my mistake. Places like the Strathspey list help a lot with these kinds of things.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian & Vicki Brown <ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2009 9:07 AM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
>
>I am indebted to all for much advice of a sartorial nature
>but particularly to Lee and to one private correspondent who
>have pointed out to me that what I always knew to be true
>has certainly not been true since 1992.
>
>I am somewhat ashamed to say that I have a copy of the 1992
>manual on my bookshelf but was so confident of my knowledge
>that I didn't even bother to check it. I am humbled!
>
>Ian Brown
>Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: Lee Fuell [mailto:fuell@mindspring.com]
>Sent: 03 December 2009 13:28
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: Re: strathspey setting step
>
>Ian,
>
>Lots of responses to your question, but no answers - let me
>try to rectify that.
>
>The current version of the RSCDS Manual, issued in 2005,
>makes no mention of different foot placement height for men
>versus women on the lift at the end of the strathspey
>setting step.
>
>"With a soft hop on the right foot, draw the left foot
>slowly up behind the right leg, knee well turned out, toe
>just above the supporting heel and the side of the left foot
>just against the back of the right leg."
>
>As a beginning dancer, I was taught the same way you were -
>men's feet higher than women's. I remember being told about
>this change around the time the new manual was issued. I
>expect there are a number of teachers out there who obtained
>their certificates before 2005 who may not have noticed this
>change.
>
>So your adviser is technically correct. When I teach the
>step, I teach it per the manual, but when teaching
>experienced dancers I don't try to correct men who are doing
>it the old way because we're only talking about a couple of
>inches difference and I just don't think it's that big a
>deal as long as the basic character of the step is intact.
>If I have a male dancer who is jerking his foot up in an
>abrupt or exaggerated way, trying to get it really high on
>the back of his leg to the point where it makes what should
>be a smooth movement look really awkward, I might address
>that, but more because it's disrupting the rhythm of the
>step than because of an inch or two of toe height.
>Ultimately, unless you're an RSCDS teacher candidate or a
>competitive festival dancer, I wouldn't advise worrying too
>much about it.
>
>I hope this clears things up for you,
>
>Lee
>
>RSCDS Cincinnati Branch
>Beavercreek, OH, USA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ian & Vicki Brown <ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com>
>>Sent: Dec 3, 2009 4:33 AM
>>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>Subject: strathspey setting step
>>
>>I have been advised that my strathspey setting step is not
>>correct. My adviser was at pains to point out that in the
>>past it has been correct and that my setting hasn't
>>noticeably changed. What he advised has changed is the
>>definition of what is correct. Apparently the man is no
>>longer to lift the foot any higher than the lady should.
>>
>>
>>
>>Without seeing my setting step, can anyone shed light on
>>this story? Is my adviser correct or has he got hold of
>the
>>wrong end of the stick? Whether or not he is correct,
>>should he be?
>>
>>
>>
>>I surmise that the lady has always been expected to set
>less
>>stridently since she might well be encumbered by a long
>>gown. Ought I to conclude that kilts may be worn longer in
>>this coming season?
>>
>>
>>
>>Ian Brown
>>Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57505 · Duncan Brown · 3 Dec 2009 21:57:39 · Top

Hi All,

Well, I took my certificate after the 1992 manual (and passed) and I still
dance and teach that men can put their feet higher on the back of the leg.
This stems from my teachers, I guess (Malcolm and Helen Brown have a lot to
answer for! ;-)). I suppose that having danced since childhood, some things
have become somewhat ingrained and I'm not about to start changing my
dancing now!

I don't know about anyone else, but when watching and correcting a
strathspey setting step, I'm more interested in dancers giving a bit of
extra urge on the first beat, and not waving their foot around when they
change direction.

The change to where people put their feet when changing direction in the
1992 manual explains why I was picked up on it at weekend school sometime in
the mid 1990s. I changed for about 5 minutes and then went back to my own
way - like I say, habits die hard (and even harder when I don't particularly
agree with them!)

Duncan
Chudleigh
Devon
UK

strathspey setting step

Message 57506 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 3 Dec 2009 21:59:41 · Top

Sorry, but is this post meant to be taken seriously?

strathspey setting step

Message 57507 · Andrea Re · 3 Dec 2009 22:05:01 · Top

How could I possibly say if I don't know which post you are referring to?

Andrea (fae Falkirk and Dundee)

GOSS9@telefonica.net ha scritto:
> Sorry, but is this post meant to be taken seriously?
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57508 · Brian Charlton · 3 Dec 2009 22:29:52 · Top

G'Day,

I have had a look at the current Manual, the previous edition, Won't You
Join the Dance (Jean Milligan, 1982) and Introducing Scottish Country
Dancing (Jean Milligan, 1968). Nowhere does it give any reference to the men
lifting their foot higher than the ladies. To quote from Miss Milligan "A
hop is made on the right foot, while left foot is brought up behind right
leg so that the side of the left foot is pressed to the right leg, toe just
above right heel." As I read it, nothing has changed in the written
instructions. Of course, like many others, when I was training for my
Certificate, I was told that men were 'permitted' to raise the left leg
higher than the ladies, so that the instep was alongside the calf. So it
seems the 'permission' was not the 'officially recommended' method. On my
legs, the difference is probably less than an inch (2.5cm), so who is
watching?

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

2009/12/4 Andrea Re <andrea@andrea-re.eu>

> How could I possibly say if I don't know which post you are referring to?
>
> Andrea (fae Falkirk and Dundee)
>
> GOSS9@telefonica.net ha scritto:
>
> Sorry, but is this post meant to be taken seriously?
>>
>>
>>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57509 · mlamontbrown · 4 Dec 2009 00:18:02 · Top

Brian wrote:
> I have had a look at the current Manual, the previous edition, Won't You
> Join the Dance (Jean Milligan, 1982) and Introducing Scottish Country
> Dancing (Jean Milligan, 1968). Nowhere does it give any reference to the men
> lifting their foot higher than the ladies. To quote from Miss Milligan "A
> hop is made on the right foot, while left foot is brought up behind right
> leg so that the side of the left foot is pressed to the right leg, toe just
> above right heel." As I read it, nothing has changed in the written
> instructions. Of course, like many others, when I was training for my
> Certificate, I was told that men were 'permitted' to raise the left leg
> higher than the ladies, so that the instep was alongside the calf. So it
> seems the 'permission' was not the 'officially recommended' method.

Strange how such a widespread belief was never "official policy"!

This raises the question of "how did such a "factoid" arise?" - my own belief is that
in highland the foot in 3rd rear aerial position is placed a lot higher up the
supporting leg than "toe just above the heel", so the men just carried on putting
their foot into 3rd rear aerial, compounded by the fact that when the foot positions
were drawn this position was never shown!
(Remember the question "draw the foot positions" which came up in the written paper?)

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

strathspey setting step

Message 57510 · Lee Fuell · 4 Dec 2009 01:01:08 · Top

This whole thread reminds me of a paper written years ago by Mel Briscoe in which he addressed the differences between facts, dogma, common practice and opinion. The paper is available online at:

http://briscoes.home.mindspring.com/UnwrittenRules.html

The relevant quote, I think, is "When Opinions are delivered by someone with "positional authority," they may even be mistaken for dogma." Sounds like the higher foot position for men is a common practice or widely-held opinion that became misconstrued as dogma. Prior to some of the posts today, I thought it used to be dogma, but was just changed recently. Obviously, it never has been dogma.

Lee

RSCDS Cincinnati Branch

-----Original Message-----
>From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
>
>Brian wrote:
>> I have had a look at the current Manual, the previous edition, Won't You
>> Join the Dance (Jean Milligan, 1982) and Introducing Scottish Country
>> Dancing (Jean Milligan, 1968). Nowhere does it give any reference to the men
>> lifting their foot higher than the ladies. To quote from Miss Milligan "A
>> hop is made on the right foot, while left foot is brought up behind right
>> leg so that the side of the left foot is pressed to the right leg, toe just
>> above right heel." As I read it, nothing has changed in the written
>> instructions. Of course, like many others, when I was training for my
>> Certificate, I was told that men were 'permitted' to raise the left leg
>> higher than the ladies, so that the instep was alongside the calf. So it
>> seems the 'permission' was not the 'officially recommended' method.
>
>Strange how such a widespread belief was never "official policy"!
>
>This raises the question of "how did such a "factoid" arise?" - my own belief is that
>in highland the foot in 3rd rear aerial position is placed a lot higher up the
>supporting leg than "toe just above the heel", so the men just carried on putting
>their foot into 3rd rear aerial, compounded by the fact that when the foot positions
>were drawn this position was never shown!
>(Remember the question "draw the foot positions" which came up in the written paper?)
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York (UK)
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57511 · George Watt · 4 Dec 2009 10:31:57 · Top

This has all been a very interesting discourse.

I assume the entry in the manual is a mistake which the proof readers failed to notice. If not then someone at HQ needs to be taken aside and given a very serious talking to. They need to be reminded of how Scottish Dance evolved and probably given a few dance lessons too. Scottish dance was for strapping young lads and maidens. I can assure all the readers that when these gallant ladies, Mrs Stewart and Miss Milligan were recruiting dancers they did not go to the local old folks home, they went to the Physical Education Colleges and got young lads new out the army. Scottish dance did not become world famous because it was wishy washy and perfomed by old women shuffling round in their baffies. At the risk of being excommunicated by 12 Coates Crescent, dancing is very similar to sex, it is best executed by vibrant healthy couples of different genders. That is why you will hear a very polite lady exclaim on occasions, 'my we've four men in the set.' They know a set with equal numbers of men and women will be better danced and a much more memorable experience. When I asked my Grand-nephew, 10yrs. old, would he like to take up Scottish Country Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my palls would think I'm a sissy' and he plays cricket! There should be no sissy in dance, especially a Strathspey, it requires strength and poise. No doubt many will think I'm an old fashioned Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN should dance as MEN.

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131


> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:01:08 -0500
> From: fuell@mindspring.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
>
> This whole thread reminds me of a paper written years ago by Mel Briscoe in which he addressed the differences between facts, dogma, common practice and opinion. The paper is available online at:
>
> http://briscoes.home.mindspring.com/UnwrittenRules.html
>
> The relevant quote, I think, is "When Opinions are delivered by someone with "positional authority," they may even be mistaken for dogma." Sounds like the higher foot position for men is a common practice or widely-held opinion that became misconstrued as dogma. Prior to some of the posts today, I thought it used to be dogma, but was just changed recently. Obviously, it never has been dogma.
>
> Lee
>
> RSCDS Cincinnati Branch
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
> >Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM
> >To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> >Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
> >
> >Brian wrote:
> >> I have had a look at the current Manual, the previous edition, Won't You
> >> Join the Dance (Jean Milligan, 1982) and Introducing Scottish Country
> >> Dancing (Jean Milligan, 1968). Nowhere does it give any reference to the men
> >> lifting their foot higher than the ladies. To quote from Miss Milligan "A
> >> hop is made on the right foot, while left foot is brought up behind right
> >> leg so that the side of the left foot is pressed to the right leg, toe just
> >> above right heel." As I read it, nothing has changed in the written
> >> instructions. Of course, like many others, when I was training for my
> >> Certificate, I was told that men were 'permitted' to raise the left leg
> >> higher than the ladies, so that the instep was alongside the calf. So it
> >> seems the 'permission' was not the 'officially recommended' method.
> >
> >Strange how such a widespread belief was never "official policy"!
> >
> >This raises the question of "how did such a "factoid" arise?" - my own belief is that
> >in highland the foot in 3rd rear aerial position is placed a lot higher up the
> >supporting leg than "toe just above the heel", so the men just carried on putting
> >their foot into 3rd rear aerial, compounded by the fact that when the foot positions
> >were drawn this position was never shown!
> >(Remember the question "draw the foot positions" which came up in the written paper?)
> >
> >Malcolm
> >
> >Malcolm L Brown
> >York (UK)
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Have more than one Hotmail account? Link them together to easily access both
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/

strathspey setting step

Message 57512 · Ian Brown · 4 Dec 2009 12:08:55 · Top

Hurrah!

This email has emboldened me. I have reread the sartorial
advice and cancelled my order for petticoats and lace
trimmings, despite encouragement by Pia. I wasn't sure that
Yorkshire was ready for them anyway.

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

-----Original Message-----
From: George Watt [mailto:georgetwatt@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 December 2009 09:32
To: strathspey
Subject: RE: strathspey setting step

This has all been a very interesting discourse.

I assume the entry in the manual is a mistake which the
proof readers failed to notice. If not then someone at HQ
needs to be taken aside and given a very serious talking to.
They need to be reminded of how Scottish Dance evolved and
probably given a few dance lessons too. Scottish dance was
for strapping young lads and maidens. I can assure all the
readers that when these gallant ladies, Mrs Stewart and Miss
Milligan were recruiting dancers they did not go to the
local old folks home, they went to the Physical Education
Colleges and got young lads new out the army. Scottish dance
did not become world famous because it was wishy washy and
perfomed by old women shuffling round in their baffies. At
the risk of being excommunicated by 12 Coates Crescent,
dancing is very similar to sex, it is best executed by
vibrant healthy couples of different genders. That is why
you will hear a very polite lady exclaim on occasions, 'my
we've four men in the set.' They know a set with equal
numbers of men and women will be better danced and a much
more memorable experience. When I asked my Grand-nephew,
10yrs. old, would he like to take up Scottish Country
Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my palls would think I'm a
sissy' and he plays cricket! There should be no sissy in
dance, especially a Strathspey, it requires strength and
poise. No doubt many will think I'm an old fashioned
Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN should dance as MEN.

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131

strathspey setting step

Message 57513 · Pia Walker · 4 Dec 2009 12:28:29 · Top

Ahhh! And I had hoped for another fashion article on the changing face of
male attire in SCD for Dance On! :>(

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian & Vicki Brown [mailto:ibrownharrogate@waitrose.com]
Sent: 04 December 2009 11:09
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: strathspey setting step

Hurrah!

This email has emboldened me. I have reread the sartorial
advice and cancelled my order for petticoats and lace
trimmings, despite encouragement by Pia. I wasn't sure that
Yorkshire was ready for them anyway.

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

-----Original Message-----
From: George Watt [mailto:georgetwatt@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 December 2009 09:32
To: strathspey
Subject: RE: strathspey setting step

This has all been a very interesting discourse.

I assume the entry in the manual is a mistake which the
proof readers failed to notice. If not then someone at HQ
needs to be taken aside and given a very serious talking to.
They need to be reminded of how Scottish Dance evolved and
probably given a few dance lessons too. Scottish dance was
for strapping young lads and maidens. I can assure all the
readers that when these gallant ladies, Mrs Stewart and Miss
Milligan were recruiting dancers they did not go to the
local old folks home, they went to the Physical Education
Colleges and got young lads new out the army. Scottish dance
did not become world famous because it was wishy washy and
perfomed by old women shuffling round in their baffies. At
the risk of being excommunicated by 12 Coates Crescent,
dancing is very similar to sex, it is best executed by
vibrant healthy couples of different genders. That is why
you will hear a very polite lady exclaim on occasions, 'my
we've four men in the set.' They know a set with equal
numbers of men and women will be better danced and a much
more memorable experience. When I asked my Grand-nephew,
10yrs. old, would he like to take up Scottish Country
Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my palls would think I'm a
sissy' and he plays cricket! There should be no sissy in
dance, especially a Strathspey, it requires strength and
poise. No doubt many will think I'm an old fashioned
Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN should dance as MEN.

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131

strathspey setting step

Message 57517 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 4 Dec 2009 16:22:42 · Top

While I heartily agree that SCD is not for sissies (whether they be men or
women), I find your comment that dancing is best executed by couples of
different genders to be somewhat . . .disturbing. The frisson of a bit of
flirting certainly can add excitement to the dance, but let's just say that
needn't be limited to dancers of the opposite sex. Obviously, it depends on
who you like to flirt with. I'm glad to say that most of the groups I've
danced with have been supporters of equal opportunity flirting.

Incidentally, I can say that one of the most exciting things to watch in SCD
is an all-male set of good dancers doing the Reel of the 51st Division
(preferably with highcuts and tulloch turns). Now that's sexy!

Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota
USA

*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com

*****************************

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:31 AM, George Watt <georgetwatt@hotmail.com> wrote:

> At the risk of being excommunicated by 12 Coates Crescent, dancing is very
> similar to sex, it is best executed by vibrant healthy couples of different
> genders. That is why you will hear a very polite lady exclaim on occasions,
> 'my we've four men in the set.' They know a set with equal numbers of men
> and women will be better danced and a much more memorable experience. When I
> asked my Grand-nephew, 10yrs. old, would he like to take up Scottish Country
> Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my palls would think I'm a sissy' and he
> plays cricket! There should be no sissy in dance, especially a Strathspey,
> it requires strength and poise. No doubt many will think I'm an old
> fashioned Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN should dance as MEN.
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57519 · George Watt · 4 Dec 2009 17:11:13 · Top

Of course it is, you're a wumman watching 8 hearty fellows gaein it laldie, even I find that sexy!

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131


> From: lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:22:42 -0600
> Subject: Re: strathspey setting step
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>
> While I heartily agree that SCD is not for sissies (whether they be men or
> women), I find your comment that dancing is best executed by couples of
> different genders to be somewhat . . .disturbing. The frisson of a bit of
> flirting certainly can add excitement to the dance, but let's just say that
> needn't be limited to dancers of the opposite sex. Obviously, it depends on
> who you like to flirt with. I'm glad to say that most of the groups I've
> danced with have been supporters of equal opportunity flirting.
>
> Incidentally, I can say that one of the most exciting things to watch in SCD
> is an all-male set of good dancers doing the Reel of the 51st Division
> (preferably with highcuts and tulloch turns). Now that's sexy!
>
> Lara Friedman-Shedlov
> Minneapolis, Minnesota
> USA
>
>
> *****************************
> Lara Friedman~Shedlov
> lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
>
> *****************************
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:31 AM, George Watt <georgetwatt@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > At the risk of being excommunicated by 12 Coates Crescent, dancing is very
> > similar to sex, it is best executed by vibrant healthy couples of different
> > genders. That is why you will hear a very polite lady exclaim on occasions,
> > 'my we've four men in the set.' They know a set with equal numbers of men
> > and women will be better danced and a much more memorable experience. When I
> > asked my Grand-nephew, 10yrs. old, would he like to take up Scottish Country
> > Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my palls would think I'm a sissy' and he
> > plays cricket! There should be no sissy in dance, especially a Strathspey,
> > it requires strength and poise. No doubt many will think I'm an old
> > fashioned Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN should dance as MEN.
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Have more than one Hotmail account? Link them together to easily access both
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/

strathspey setting step

Message 57520 · Andrea Re · 4 Dec 2009 17:18:49 · Top

Lara Friedman-Shedlov ha scritto:
> While I heartily agree that SCD is not for sissies (whether they be men or
> women), I find your comment that dancing is best executed by couples of
> different genders to be somewhat . . .disturbing.
Hi Lara,

Well, I must be old school as well, as I am definitely with George on
this.. I know that if one stuck to the principle of always dancing with
someone of the opposite sex, a lot of women would spend the evening
knitting and not dancing, so you have to put up with you, but dancing
with someone of the opposite sex is way better (assuming one makes eye
contact). I have danced as a woman at times, and that's OK (and in my
case I find it fun as it is rarely done), but still... Nothing wrong if
two girlfirends (in the sense of two girls who happen to be friends)
dance together, but I cannot believe they would prefer that to dancing
with a man (unless the purpose of it all is only to get through the
motions). Now, if you are referring to gay couples, that's different,
but I don't think so.
As an aside, this is why I don't like James Senior of St.A. as it has
this gay bit in the middle with two men and then two women (or
viceversa, I can never remember) chasing and dancing a 1/2 turn and
twirl; I always found that such a waste of 8+8 bars and of a nice figure
(I have other problems with that dance, but that's another matter).

Andrea (fae Falkirk and Dundee)
> The frisson of a bit of
> flirting certainly can add excitement to the dance, but let's just say that
> needn't be limited to dancers of the opposite sex. Obviously, it depends on
> who you like to flirt with. I'm glad to say that most of the groups I've
> danced with have been supporters of equal opportunity flirting.
>
> Incidentally, I can say that one of the most exciting things to watch in SCD
> is an all-male set of good dancers doing the Reel of the 51st Division
> (preferably with highcuts and tulloch turns). Now that's sexy!
>
> Lara Friedman-Shedlov
> Minneapolis, Minnesota
> USA
>
>
> *****************************
> Lara Friedman~Shedlov
> lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
>
> *****************************
>
>

strathspey setting step

Message 57522 · mlamontbrown · 4 Dec 2009 17:34:58 · Top

Andrea wrote:

.. I know that if one stuck to the principle of always dancing with
> someone of the opposite sex, a lot of women would spend the evening
> knitting and not dancing, so you have to put up with you, but dancing
> with someone of the opposite sex is way better (assuming one makes eye
> contact).

I'm not sure every woman would agree - I'm sure that if it is a high energy dance,
where people need to know where they are going, it might be preferable to have
another woman as a partner, rather than a man who can't move and doesn't know where
he is supposed to go.

Malcolm
(Sorry this is off subject -- perhaps somebody should make the change)

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

strathspey setting step

Message 57523 · Pia Walker · 4 Dec 2009 18:12:48 · Top

As a dancer, I don't really care what gender I dance with - except being
'not small' do a lot of dancing on the non-feminine side of the dance :>)

If I dance with a lady, I expect and anticipate a ladies style of dance,
which is softer and more 'girl-friendly' - it can still be energetic, fun
and non-wishy-washy. If I'm dancing as the 'man' I would expect to be the
one leading (beware I always go wrong).

If I dance with a man, I would enjoy having a partner that obviously leads -
without ripping my arms out of the socket or invading my personal space - (I
am an old ballroom-dancing girl) - I understand what George says -
especially if that partner is an experienced dancer - I suppose it is called
confidence in dancing - an ability to take charge.

I like a partner that looks you in the eye - preferably with a smile. I
like a challenge or a response to a challenge - I like a partner that is not
afraid of saying - this is me, this is how I dance. And I'm far to busy
looking at their faces to look at where they put their feet in a setting
step. :>) I'll do that as a teacher, not a partner.

I had two little boys (6 years of age) wanting to dance together the other
week - so they did - and bless them - both courtesied - so the girls all
bowed.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 04 December 2009 16:35
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: strathspey setting step

Andrea wrote:

.. I know that if one stuck to the principle of always dancing with
> someone of the opposite sex, a lot of women would spend the evening
> knitting and not dancing, so you have to put up with you, but dancing
> with someone of the opposite sex is way better (assuming one makes eye
> contact).

I'm not sure every woman would agree - I'm sure that if it is a high energy
dance,
where people need to know where they are going, it might be preferable to
have
another woman as a partner, rather than a man who can't move and doesn't
know where
he is supposed to go.

Malcolm
(Sorry this is off subject -- perhaps somebody should make the change)

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

strathspey setting step

Message 57529 · George Watt · 4 Dec 2009 20:12:36 · Top

Ah Andrea, I seem to recall you and I dancing together on a rare occassion when there were more men than women in a class. I can tell you all now, we danced beautifully, were most flirtatious and all the ladies of the set were a flutter....fortunately it was not a Strathspey, but if it were, my foot would have been up near my calf somewhere, because that was what we were taught in those far off days when - you've guessed it - men were men and sheep were scared!

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131


> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:18:49 +0000
> From: andrea@andrea-re.eu
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: strathspey setting step
>
>
>
> Lara Friedman-Shedlov ha scritto:
> > While I heartily agree that SCD is not for sissies (whether they be men or
> > women), I find your comment that dancing is best executed by couples of
> > different genders to be somewhat . . .disturbing.
> Hi Lara,
>
> Well, I must be old school as well, as I am definitely with George on
> this.. I know that if one stuck to the principle of always dancing with
> someone of the opposite sex, a lot of women would spend the evening
> knitting and not dancing, so you have to put up with you, but dancing
> with someone of the opposite sex is way better (assuming one makes eye
> contact). I have danced as a woman at times, and that's OK (and in my
> case I find it fun as it is rarely done), but still... Nothing wrong if
> two girlfirends (in the sense of two girls who happen to be friends)
> dance together, but I cannot believe they would prefer that to dancing
> with a man (unless the purpose of it all is only to get through the
> motions). Now, if you are referring to gay couples, that's different,
> but I don't think so.
> As an aside, this is why I don't like James Senior of St.A. as it has
> this gay bit in the middle with two men and then two women (or
> viceversa, I can never remember) chasing and dancing a 1/2 turn and
> twirl; I always found that such a waste of 8+8 bars and of a nice figure
> (I have other problems with that dance, but that's another matter).
>
> Andrea (fae Falkirk and Dundee)
> > The frisson of a bit of
> > flirting certainly can add excitement to the dance, but let's just say that
> > needn't be limited to dancers of the opposite sex. Obviously, it depends on
> > who you like to flirt with. I'm glad to say that most of the groups I've
> > danced with have been supporters of equal opportunity flirting.
> >
> > Incidentally, I can say that one of the most exciting things to watch in SCD
> > is an all-male set of good dancers doing the Reel of the 51st Division
> > (preferably with highcuts and tulloch turns). Now that's sexy!
> >
> > Lara Friedman-Shedlov
> > Minneapolis, Minnesota
> > USA
> >
> >
> > *****************************
> > Lara Friedman~Shedlov
> > lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com
> >
> > *****************************
> >
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Add your Gmail and Yahoo! Mail email accounts into Hotmail - it's easy
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394592/direct/01/

strathspey setting step

Message 57528 · simon scott · 4 Dec 2009 19:38:45 · Top

I am always rather saddened when I sometimes see, what appears to be,
Headquarters bashing, on Strathspey. They are no more perfect than the rest
of us, however, they have in the past, and they still do, accomplish an
enormous amount of work, from which we all benefit greatly.

I can not agree more with George's comments about male - female dancing.
It doesn't mean that two women cannot dance well together, and enjoy it.
BUT, for me, masculine - feminine, both in their own full glory, is part of
what this elegant dancing is about.

Well said George!

Simon Scott
Vancouver

-----Original Message-----
From: George Watt [mailto:georgetwatt@hotmail.com]
Sent: December-04-09 1:32 AM
To: strathspey
Subject: RE: strathspey setting step

This has all been a very interesting discourse.

I assume the entry in the manual is a mistake which the proof readers failed
to notice. If not then someone at HQ needs to be taken aside and given a
very serious talking to. They need to be reminded of how Scottish Dance
evolved and probably given a few dance lessons too. Scottish dance was for
strapping young lads and maidens. I can assure all the readers that when
these gallant ladies, Mrs Stewart and Miss Milligan were recruiting dancers
they did not go to the local old folks home, they went to the Physical
Education Colleges and got young lads new out the army. Scottish dance did
not become world famous because it was wishy washy and perfomed by old women
shuffling round in their baffies. At the risk of being excommunicated by 12
Coates Crescent, dancing is very similar to sex, it is best executed by
vibrant healthy couples of different genders. That is why you will hear a
very polite lady exclaim on occasions, 'my we've four men in the set.' They
know a set with equal numbers of men and women will be better danced and a
much more memorable experience. When I asked my Grand-nephew, 10yrs. old,
would he like to take up Scottish Country Dancing he replied sheepishly, 'my
palls would think I'm a sissy' and he plays cricket! There should be no
sissy in dance, especially a Strathspey, it requires strength and poise. No
doubt many will think I'm an old fashioned Neanderthal and sexist, but MEN
should dance as MEN.

George T. Watt,
4 Ancrum Drive,
Dundee.
DD2 2JB
Scotland.

tel. 01382 642131


> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:01:08 -0500
> From: fuell@mindspring.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
>
> This whole thread reminds me of a paper written years ago by Mel Briscoe
in which he addressed the differences between facts, dogma, common practice
and opinion. The paper is available online at:
>
> http://briscoes.home.mindspring.com/UnwrittenRules.html
>
> The relevant quote, I think, is "When Opinions are delivered by someone
with "positional authority," they may even be mistaken for dogma." Sounds
like the higher foot position for men is a common practice or widely-held
opinion that became misconstrued as dogma. Prior to some of the posts today,
I thought it used to be dogma, but was just changed recently. Obviously, it
never has been dogma.
>
> Lee
>
> RSCDS Cincinnati Branch
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
> >Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM
> >To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> >Subject: RE: strathspey setting step
> >
> >Brian wrote:
> >> I have had a look at the current Manual, the previous edition, Won't
You
> >> Join the Dance (Jean Milligan, 1982) and Introducing Scottish Country
> >> Dancing (Jean Milligan, 1968). Nowhere does it give any reference to
the men
> >> lifting their foot higher than the ladies. To quote from Miss Milligan
"A
> >> hop is made on the right foot, while left foot is brought up behind
right
> >> leg so that the side of the left foot is pressed to the right leg, toe
just
> >> above right heel." As I read it, nothing has changed in the written
> >> instructions. Of course, like many others, when I was training for my
> >> Certificate, I was told that men were 'permitted' to raise the left leg
> >> higher than the ladies, so that the instep was alongside the calf. So
it
> >> seems the 'permission' was not the 'officially recommended' method.
> >
> >Strange how such a widespread belief was never "official policy"!
> >
> >This raises the question of "how did such a "factoid" arise?" - my own
belief is that
> >in highland the foot in 3rd rear aerial position is placed a lot higher
up the
> >supporting leg than "toe just above the heel", so the men just carried on
putting
> >their foot into 3rd rear aerial, compounded by the fact that when the
foot positions
> >were drawn this position was never shown!
> >(Remember the question "draw the foot positions" which came up in the
written paper?)
> >
> >Malcolm
> >
> >Malcolm L Brown
> >York (UK)
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Have more than one Hotmail account? Link them together to easily access both
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/

strathspey setting step

Message 57514 · Martin Campoveja · 4 Dec 2009 14:59:36 · Top

2009/12/4 Lee Fuell wrote:
>  Sounds like the higher foot position for men is a common practice or widely-held opinion that became misconstrued as dogma.

Or have some people been convinced that anything emanating from Coates
Crescent is dogma?

One thing has become clear to me (since vague step descriptions are
allowed ot become dogma);
no-one should be allowed to dance if their shoe size is less than 39
(6 1/2 ?) or more than 40, since this would mean that the heels raised
behind the supporting leg would not all be at the same distance from
the floor (assuming of course that the dancers' toes are just above
the supporrting heel.

Martin

strathspey setting step

Message 57515 · Christina Reiß · 4 Dec 2009 15:20:59 · Top

In this scenario, you should also consider that people with bigger or
shorter feet have longer or shorter legs. Perhaps one should calculate
the perfect foot-leg-ratio for new applicants...? (It seems as if they
have size restrictions in Irish set dance, too, so it must at least be
LEGAL! ;-)).

Am 04.12.2009 um 14:59 schrieb Martin Sheffield:

> 2009/12/4 Lee Fuell wrote:
>> Sounds like the higher foot position for men is a common practice
>> or widely-held opinion that became misconstrued as dogma.
>
> Or have some people been convinced that anything emanating from Coates
> Crescent is dogma?
>
> One thing has become clear to me (since vague step descriptions are
> allowed ot become dogma);
> no-one should be allowed to dance if their shoe size is less than 39
> (6 1/2 ?) or more than 40, since this would mean that the heels raised
> behind the supporting leg would not all be at the same distance from
> the floor (assuming of course that the dancers' toes are just above
> the supporrting heel.
>
> Martin

strathspey setting step

Message 57516 · Pia Walker · 4 Dec 2009 15:25:26 · Top

But surely that should depend on the circumference of your head? (not to
mention what's in it)

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Christina Rei? [mailto:Patchicoo@yahoo.de]
Sent: 04 December 2009 14:21
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: strathspey setting step

In this scenario, you should also consider that people with bigger or
shorter feet have longer or shorter legs. Perhaps one should calculate
the perfect foot-leg-ratio for new applicants...? (It seems as if they
have size restrictions in Irish set dance, too, so it must at least be
LEGAL! ;-)).

Am 04.12.2009 um 14:59 schrieb Martin Sheffield:

> 2009/12/4 Lee Fuell wrote:
>> Sounds like the higher foot position for men is a common practice
>> or widely-held opinion that became misconstrued as dogma.
>
> Or have some people been convinced that anything emanating from Coates
> Crescent is dogma?
>
> One thing has become clear to me (since vague step descriptions are
> allowed ot become dogma);
> no-one should be allowed to dance if their shoe size is less than 39
> (6 1/2 ?) or more than 40, since this would mean that the heels raised
> behind the supporting leg would not all be at the same distance from
> the floor (assuming of course that the dancers' toes are just above
> the supporrting heel.
>
> Martin

strathspey setting step

Message 57526 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 4 Dec 2009 19:00:56 · Top

OK Christina, pretending to take this discussion seriously, I am 176cm high and have just measured the height of my big toe from the floor during the strathspey setting step and came up with 18cm, this makes the ration about 10.2% of my height. Lets round it off to 10% of one´s height. Of course there are other variables to be considered, I have small feet which puts my heel lower then people with long feet. At the same time, my trunk to leg ration is long, so this moves my foot higher on my leg then someone who has a shorter trunk or longer legs.

I find it odd that in a social dance situation, where one´s focus shold be on each other´s faces, this conversation is even happening at all. Of course women will be lower, because most women are shorter then their partners.

PS: am reminded of a regular "couple" at St Andrews in the 60s and 70s. To me she seemed 200cm tall, and he about 150cm. He was obviously having a problem with the arm over in the allmande on bars 1, 5, &amp; 6. Miss M, delicately suggested that he simply aim for the girl´s shoulder.

strathspey setting step

Message 57527 · Pia Walker · 4 Dec 2009 19:04:23 · Top

Hmmmm - dear - you obviously have too much time to spare :>)

Have a nice weekend

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: GOSS9@telefonica.net [mailto:GOSS9@telefonica.net]
Sent: 04 December 2009 18:01
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: strathspey setting step

OK Christina, pretending to take this discussion seriously, I am 176cm high and have just measured the height of my big toe from the floor during the strathspey setting step and came up with 18cm, this makes the ration about 10.2% of my height. Lets round it off to 10% of one´s height. Of course there are other variables to be considered, I have small feet which puts my heel lower then people with long feet. At the same time, my trunk to leg ration is long, so this moves my foot higher on my leg then someone who has a shorter trunk or longer legs.

I find it odd that in a social dance situation, where one´s focus shold be on each other´s faces, this conversation is even happening at all. Of course women will be lower, because most women are shorter then their partners.

PS: am reminded of a regular "couple" at St Andrews in the 60s and 70s. To me she seemed 200cm tall, and he about 150cm. He was obviously having a problem with the arm over in the allmande on bars 1, 5, &amp; 6. Miss M, delicately suggested that he simply aim for the girl´s shoulder.

Previous thread: RSCDS Membership database
Next thread: Opp/Same Gender Dancing (was strathspey setting step)
A Django site.