strathspey Archive: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Too bad! It's nicer all around when people are open-ended in general.

Etienne

At 10:45 AM 3/26/2009, you wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Monica Pollard <sequoia03@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Now there's a "traditional" instrument I prefer *not* to hear in
> > Scottish country dance music - a drum set. Not to say this is always
> > the case, but sometimes it seems like a crutch for less-than-rhythmic
> > playing, and dancing, for that matter.
> >
> >
>Some people here say that about the accordion! ;-)
>--
>Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California

Agreed. I also know dancers who don't like dancing to fiddles because they
feel they don't give a clear enough beat. Personally I think there's room
for it all. I wish we had some good accordion bands out here, in addition
to all the good fiddle bands! -Steve

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Etienne Ozorak <etozorak@allegheny.edu>wrote:

> Too bad! It's nicer all around when people are open-ended in general.
>
> Etienne
>
>
>
> At 10:45 AM 3/26/2009, you wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Monica Pollard <sequoia03@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Now there's a "traditional" instrument I prefer *not* to hear in
>> > Scottish country dance music - a drum set. Not to say this is always
>> > the case, but sometimes it seems like a crutch for less-than-rhythmic
>> > playing, and dancing, for that matter.
>> >
>> >
>> Some people here say that about the accordion! ;-)
>> --
>> Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
>>
>
>

--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
Sent from: Berkeley California United States.

A Scottish fiddler once said to me that tradition is what you did 15 years
ago.

If we look at music played in the 18th century, when Playford's books were
coming up to Scotland, you had no accordions, no pianos, probably no snare
drums nor silver flutes. Jimmy Shand set the standard in the 30's through the
60's. Alasdair Fraser has had a huge influence on fiddling, especially here
in the US. I sometimes wonder if Alasdair had played accordion would there be
lots of wannabe accordionists instead of fiddlers.
People dance to what is available, musicians become inventive in order to
combat boredom. Sometimes the inventions work and sometimes they don't. The
bombard has crept into some contra bands via a very good, very inventive flute
player. Will that be the next SCD experiment?
Sylvia Miskoe, concord, NH USA

Sylvia wrote:

>
> "If we look at music played in the 18th century, when Playford's books were
> coming up to Scotland, you had no accordions, no pianos, probably no snare
> drums nor silver flutes. Jimmy Shand set the standard in the 30's through
> the
> 60's. Alasdair Fraser has had a huge influence on fiddling, especially
> here
> in the US."

Yes, we're very lucky in the US, thanks to Alasdair, and Barbara McOwen and
others who have inspired such wonderful fiddle music here. I know tastes
differ a lot, but as far as I'm concerned nothing beats a fiddle for dancing
strathspeys to.

Chris, New York.

> I sometimes wonder if Alasdair had played accordion would there be
> lots of wannabe accordionists instead of fiddlers.
> People dance to what is available, musicians become inventive in order to
> combat boredom. Sometimes the inventions work and sometimes they don't.
> The
> bombard has crept into some contra bands via a very good, very inventive
> flute
> player. Will that be the next SCD experiment?
> Sylvia Miskoe, concord, NH USA
>
>

We must all strive to be open minded, however we should all bear in mind
that many people enjoy what they have considered for some 8 decades, to
be the sound of scottish music, and the style of scottish country dancing.
The introduction or osmosis of other styles ,in either instruments, music
and /or dancing - be it american, indian, afrikan influenced and the like,
when mixed into scottish for variety, will over time inevitably change
beyond recognition, that which those at present consider the original style.
A degree of restraint is perhaps advisable. For it should be worthy of note
that if those among us incline towards a more international style of music
and dance, they have a choice, as there must be many such organizations
world wide,which are open to them. In the same vein, those who prefer what
at present is universally regarded as scottish, should have the opportunity
of preserving and enjoying their chosen style, without fear of being
labelled too purist or just plain old stick in the muds. Variety and new
ideas are to be welcomed, especially if a society or style is to continue,
but those innovations should be kept where possible,within the precepts of
what the majority might call the original style.
Today, Miss Milligan and her ideas are much maligned by some, but she did
start a great society albeit with her own interpretation of what she saw as
original scottish country dancing and it's music. This society is world
wide with many thousands of members, who belong to it because they became
interested in what and how she preserved and regulated it. Please don't let
us change it too much.
Finally, as a light hearted illustration -I dont think it would go down
too well if I belonged to a belly dancing group and kept trying to suggest
they dance in longwise sets of eight , to Ian Mcphaill's band playing The
Duke of Atholl's Reel . Angela

l Message -----
From: "Etienne Ozorak" <etozorak@allegheny.edu>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

> Too bad! It's nicer all around when people are open-ended in general.
>
> Etienne
>
>
> At 10:45 AM 3/26/2009, you wrote:
>>On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Monica Pollard <sequoia03@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Now there's a "traditional" instrument I prefer *not* to hear in
>> > Scottish country dance music - a drum set. Not to say this is always
>> > the case, but sometimes it seems like a crutch for less-than-rhythmic
>> > playing, and dancing, for that matter.
>> >
>> >
>>Some people here say that about the accordion! ;-)
>>--
>>Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09
07:12:00

Angela wrote:

> We must all strive to be open minded, however we should all bear in mind
> that many people enjoy what they have considered for some 8 decades, to
> be the sound of Scottish music, and the style of Scottish country dancing.
......................................
> Today, Miss Milligan and her ideas are much maligned by some, but she did
> start a great society albeit with her own interpretation of what she saw as
> original Scottish country dancing and it's music.

Bobby Brown still hasn't forgiven Miss M when they met in Canada, for being less than
enthusiastic (British understatement) about the fact that he played the accordion.

I don't think we have to worry too much about losing our "traditional" sounds, as we
have recordings of what was used from the 50s onwards - I still tend to use the
Berkley Players recording of "The Sailor" when I am selecting the music - and while I
like the Society recording for "Reel of Mey", it is nowhere near the challenge it
used to be when dancing it to Jimmy Shand.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Malcolm wrote :
< the Berkley Players recording of "The Sailor"

A wonderful recording. I love it.

Martin

It sure is a challenge dancing The Reel of Mey to Jimmy Shand! In Book 22 it is labelled quite clearly Slow 6/8, and while the recent RSCDS recording has a pace of 36.2, Jimmy Shand's is 31.6. We practiced the dance to Jimmy Shand but danced it at the monthly Social to one of the slower recordings, to our great relief.

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:15:46 -0000

while I
like the Society recording for "Reel of Mey", it is nowhere near the challenge it
used to be when dancing it to Jimmy Shand.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Does anyone know why the Reel of Mey and Gentle Shephard are supposed ot be
danced more slowly th

2009/3/26 Becky Sager <bsager3@juno.com>

> It sure is a challenge dancing The Reel of Mey to Jimmy Shand! In Book 22
> it is labelled quite clearly Slow 6/8, and while the recent RSCDS recording
> has a pace of 36.2, Jimmy Shand's is 31.6. We practiced the dance to Jimmy
> Shand but danced it at the monthly Social to one of the slower recordings,
> to our great relief.
>
> Becky
>
> Becky Sager
> Marietta GA USA
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
> To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:15:46 -0000
>
> while I
> like the Society recording for "Reel of Mey", it is nowhere near the
> challenge it
> used to be when dancing it to Jimmy Shand.
>
> Malcolm
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>

Does anyone know why the Reel of Mey and Gentle Shephard are supposed ot be
danced more slowly than other jigs?

Martin

Malcolm, I'd heard this about Miss M before. I never knew her but my
husband did and he sometimes recalls her being a real pedant, with somewhat
dogmatic ideas, rules etc.Miss Milligan was his examiner when he took his
cerificate, Mrs Gudyer his teacher, way back in the early 60s.
I too appreciate the Berkley Players by the way. We also have a couple of
those old discs that go round and round with a needle stuck in them.
Angela

----- Original Message -----
From: "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)............................
.
>
> Bobby Brown still hasn't forgiven Miss M when they met in Canada, for
> being less than
> enthusiastic (British understatement) about the fact that he played the
> accordion.
>
> I don't think we have to worry too much about losing our "traditional"
> sounds, as we
> have recordings of what was used from the 50s onwards - I still tend to
> use the
> Berkley Players recording of "The Sailor" when I am selecting the music -
> and while I
> like the Society recording for "Reel of Mey", it is nowhere near the
> challenge it
> used to be when dancing it to Jimmy Shand.
>
> Malcolm
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09
07:12:00

Dear Sylvia,

I was very interested in your comment -

"When I first began playing SCD I was told that only Scots, born in  Scotland,
could properly play the music."

When I started devising new dances I was told that only Scots, born in Scotland, could really appreciate SCD and could devise dances in the same style. (I am a fourth generation New Zealander and the other person an immigrant Scot.)

Regards,

Iain Boyd

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404

Wellington 6142

New Zealand

Get the world&#39;s best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/

Iain Boyd wrote:

> When I started devising new dances I was told that only Scots, born in
> Scotland, could really appreciate SCD and could devise dances in the same
> style.

They wish. Of course this conveniently disregards the fact that country
dancing had been going like gangbusters for a century or so before the Scots
got into the game at all. On the other hand, it already represents a big step
onward from the once-popular conviction that devising new dances at all was a
kind of blasphemy against the old books.

Also, when we compare the demographic make-up of the SCD communities in
Scotland and elsewhere, it seems more than likely that SCD will continue
happily all over the world long after the last true »Scot, born in Scotland«
to actually practice it has shuffled off their mortal coil.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Now is better than never. Although never is often better than *right* now.
-- Tim Peters, _The Zen of Python_

NO that's not true - we are a few imported foreigners who will keep it going
here :>)

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
Sent: 26 March 2009 22:38
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Iain Boyd wrote:

> When I started devising new dances I was told that only Scots, born in
> Scotland, could really appreciate SCD and could devise dances in the same
> style.

They wish. Of course this conveniently disregards the fact that country
dancing had been going like gangbusters for a century or so before the Scots
got into the game at all. On the other hand, it already represents a big
step
onward from the once-popular conviction that devising new dances at all was
a
kind of blasphemy against the old books.

Also, when we compare the demographic make-up of the SCD communities in
Scotland and elsewhere, it seems more than likely that SCD will continue
happily all over the world long after the last true »Scot, born in Scotland«
to actually practice it has shuffled off their mortal coil.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
anselm@strathspey.org
Now is better than never. Although never is often better than *right* now.
-- Tim Peters, _The Zen of
Python_

But boy would it liven up SCD :>) Ehm! She says looking down - perhaps
not.

Pia

Finally, as a light hearted illustration -I dont think it would go down
too well if I belonged to a belly dancing group and kept trying to suggest
they dance in longwise sets of eight , to Ian Mcphaill's band playing The
Duke of Atholl's Reel . Angela

Guess we have the same problem Pia.!!! Angela

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pia" <pia@intamail.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

> But boy would it liven up SCD :>) Ehm! She says looking down - perhaps
> not.
>
> Pia
>
> Finally, as a light hearted illustration -I dont think it would go down
> too well if I belonged to a belly dancing group and kept trying to suggest
> they dance in longwise sets of eight , to Ian Mcphaill's band playing The
> Duke of Atholl's Reel . Angela
>
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09
07:12:00

Hmm... I never met an ex-patriot Scot. Most I know believe no other country can hold a candle to the land of their birth. Expatriates, though, a bodacious plenty of them. Picky, picky...

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

From: SMiskoe@aol.com
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:06:22 EDT
The bravery comes from 40 years ago when I was trying to introduce live
music into Boston and nobody believed Americans could play it. SCD became
popular in the first place because there were so many ex-patriot Scots who wanted
to continue dancing.
Cheers,
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

Regarding innovation, the RSCDS has often borrowed from other traditions for
the tunes (although they have stuck mainly to the British Isles). And there
was innovation and evolution in instrumentation in the past or we would
still be dancing to fiddle & cello rather than accordions and snares!
[Actually, I recall reading a comment from a viol player writing in the
1600s(I think?) complaining that the recent popularity of the violin was
destroying the character of Scottish music! 'Twas ever thus...] I'm a
traditionalist (1790s rather than 1920s is my favored era) but I do think
there's room for further innovation as long as the essential character of
the music is preserved--there's a can of worms for you! At any rate I don't
think it's worth worrying about too much; these issues tend to be
self-regulating.

Speaking of belly dance, recently we dined at a Moroccan restaurant that
normally features traditional dancers but that night happened to be a yearly
event hosted by a local belly dance school where students got up and
performed routines they'd choreographed to non-traditional music--Country
Western, Rap, Salsa, etc. (Nobody used the Duke of Atholl's Reel,
thankfully...) Most routines were not very successful in our opinion,
because the chosen music didn't fit the character of the dance very well.
Our favorite used what sounded to me like some sort of Arabian
techno-fusion, and showed that it just might be possible to use other
appropriate music while still keeping the essence and spirit of traditional
dance intact! -Steve

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Angela Bulteel <a.bulteel@talktalk.net>wrote:

>
> We must all strive to be open minded, however we should all bear in mind
> that many people enjoy what they have considered for some 8 decades, to
> be the sound of scottish music, and the style of scottish country dancing.
> The introduction or osmosis of other styles ,in either instruments, music
> and /or dancing - be it american, indian, afrikan influenced and the like,
> when mixed into scottish for variety, will over time inevitably change
> beyond recognition, that which those at present consider the original style.
> A degree of restraint is perhaps advisable. For it should be worthy of note
> that if those among us incline towards a more international style of music
> and dance, they have a choice, as there must be many such organizations
> world wide,which are open to them. In the same vein, those who prefer what
> at present is universally regarded as scottish, should have the opportunity
> of preserving and enjoying their chosen style, without fear of being
> labelled too purist or just plain old stick in the muds. Variety and new
> ideas are to be welcomed, especially if a society or style is to continue,
> but those innovations should be kept where possible,within the precepts of
> what the majority might call the original style.
> Today, Miss Milligan and her ideas are much maligned by some, but she did
> start a great society albeit with her own interpretation of what she saw as
> original scottish country dancing and it's music. This society is world
> wide with many thousands of members, who belong to it because they became
> interested in what and how she preserved and regulated it. Please don't let
> us change it too much.
> Finally, as a light hearted illustration -I dont think it would go down
> too well if I belonged to a belly dancing group and kept trying to suggest
> they dance in longwise sets of eight , to Ian Mcphaill's band playing The
> Duke of Atholl's Reel . Angela
>

--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
Sent from: Berkeley California United States.

Steve, I found your words reassuring,especially the bit about things being
self regulating. I'm So glad your belly dancers didnt use the Duke of
Atholls Reel as you might be wondering what some of us get up to in our our
spare time!!! Angela

Angela wrote:

Steve, I found your words reassuring,especially the bit about things being
self regulating. I'm So glad your belly dancers didnt use the Duke of
Atholls Reel as you might be wondering what some of us get up to in our our
spare time!!!

I wont try it though because I sense my belly would be self-regulating too.

Campbell