strathspey Archive: changing tunes

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changing tunes

Message 55355 · Steve Wyrick · 21 Mar 2009 17:28:35 · Top

Maybe more to the point is when did the practice of changing KEYS with
every tune start? This seems to be unique in my experience. Cape
Bretoners, for example, generally change tunes every 32 or 64 bars but
may only change keys a couple times during a set, and when they do it
has a big impact. -Steve

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Susie Petrov <susiepetrov@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Greetings dancers,
>
> I have long been interested in the custom of changing tunes while playing
> for a Scottish dance.  If you read Niel Gow's books of music, you find
> comments above many tunes saying things like "Goes best with this other
> tune, especially when played in G instead of A as is found here." This tells
> me that Niel may well have played a bunch of tunes in a sequence for a
> particular dance.  I also like his comment above strathspeys "Slow when not
> danced."
>
> It's fun to play in Niel's ballroom at Blair Castle and to imagine what his
> gig would have been like.  Similarly, it's fun to play in a Grange hall in
> Connecticut and imagine what the composer, Charles Ives' gigs were like when
> he was a kid in the early 20th century playing Monymusk and White Cockade in
> his father's dance band.
>
> Changing tunes is cultural.  The Irish do it one way, the Cape Bretoners
> another, the Quebeçois in another way yet again and the American old-time
> players simply play one tune for 20 minutes and then stop and sigh "that was
> great" and start another that goes for another 20 minutes.  New England
> contra dance musicians have their own ways of changing tunes.  These are all
> dance forms with music similar to our reels and jigs.
>
> It's fun to dance in another community whose music is similar to Scottish
> music- and see how they solve the problem of playing a large quantity of
> music for the dance which can sometimes go on all night long!
>
> Happy playing and dancing!
> Susie Petrov
> Boston, USA
>

--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California

changing tunes

Message 55356 · SMiskoe · 21 Mar 2009 17:35:35 · Top

When the contra dance musicians began creating sets, in the 1970's, the
practice of changing key soon followed. The change usually comes when the new
active couple begins.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

changing tunes

Message 55363 · James Tween · 22 Mar 2009 13:47:44 · Top

When I've compared SCD music with English ceilidh music, my two main
experiences, I find I like both and neither is better or worse, and both
achieve their ends by different means. SCD music gives life and drive to
its side of the dance by varying tunes and keys so that, when you look at
the overall set, you've got a complete dance that's felt great the whole way
through. My favourite SCD set is currently Sandy Legget's Swiss Lassie set
from one of the Highlander CDs where all eight tunes are played with the
same arrangement, and only played once which means that those who like a
certain tune can feel they wish they'd heard more of it, but the whole set
is fantastic with tunes and keys picked in a way that gives the best result.
EC bands will generally use one, two or three tunes for one dance, but they
get their variety by arranging each tune more, varying it whether
instrumentally, or volume, or through the melody -- it happens in SCD too,
but rarely and, when it does, it's a lovely surprise. I enjoy both kinds of
dancing and music and appreciate them as right for their respective
settings.

Just thought I'd chip in.

James
Preston, UK

----- Original Message -----
From: <SMiskoe@aol.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: changing tunes

> When the contra dance musicians began creating sets, in the 1970's, the
> practice of changing key soon followed. The change usually comes when the
> new
> active couple begins.
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
>
>

changing tunes

Message 55364 · Chris Ronald · 22 Mar 2009 16:24:50 · Top

At Pinewoods one evening a few years ago, some musicians were jamming in the
Camphouse, and a few of us non-musicians persuaded them to play Mairi's
Wedding for us, so we could dance (sort of).

Well, they played the Mairi's Wedding tune in eight different keys, one for
each repetition of the dance. Such virtuosity!

Chris, New York.

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:47 AM, James Tween <jamestween@talktalk.net>wrote:

> <snip> EC bands will generally use one, two or three tunes for one dance,
> but they get their variety by arranging each tune more, varying it whether
> instrumentally, or volume, or through the melody -- it happens in SCD too,
> but rarely and, when it does, it's a lovely surprise.

changing tunes

Message 55376 · Rebecca Sager · 23 Mar 2009 00:50:09 · Top

I've been away for a dance weekend and am trying to catch up with 45 Strathspey messages. I haven't read everything in this thread yet.

At the weekend, we had a musician (on accordion) who was not primarily used to playing for SCD. He was quite good to dance to (if a little slow and he played generic tunes for Montgomeries' Rant and Reel of the Royal Scots, among others, but these two amazed me)

One dance, actually in the workshop not on the dance programs, which bothered me most was his set for Pretty Ladies. It's an 80 bar Strathspey, OK, but it begins with 8 hands round and back, the 1s and 3s do 8 bars of something, then the 2s and 4s repeat. Then... the 1s and 3s do 16 bars of something else and the 2s and 4s repeat, followed by a 24 bar coda. The musician played 32 bars, then changed tunes. I don't know what that felt like for the 1s and 3s - I was a 2 and the music didn't tell me to begin my 16-bar bit at all.

So yes - to answer a question posed in a message posted later that I have not yet read - (some of the) dancers do listen to the music.

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

From: SMiskoe@aol.com
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: changing tunes
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:35:35 EDT
When the contra dance musicians began creating sets, in the 1970's, the practice of changing key soon followed. The change usually comes when the new active couple begins.Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA


changing tunes

Message 55377 · Brian Charlton · 23 Mar 2009 01:02:41 · Top

G'Day,

In Australia, there is a 'Bush Music' tradition where the local
musicians play as a Bush Band with interesting mixes of instruments.
They like to use a variety of music, English, Scottish, Irish, etc and
the Bush Dances are a romp. From our dances, they use such things as
Postie's Jig, Australian Ladies, Strip the Willow, etc, but the
dancers pay no attention to the phrasing of the music, so the band
plays until they think the dancers have finished, or the caller tells
them so. As a result, I was at a Scottish Dance in country Queensland,
where a Bush Band were playing and we did Petronella 10 and a half
times. The Band were surprised, so were we!

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

2009/3/23 Becky Sager <bsager3@juno.com>:
> I've been away for a dance weekend and am trying to catch up with 45 Strathspey messages. I haven't read everything in this thread yet.
>
> At the weekend, we had a musician (on accordion) who was not primarily used to playing for SCD. He was quite good to dance to (if a little slow and he played generic tunes for Montgomeries' Rant and Reel of the Royal Scots, among others, but these two amazed me)
>
> One dance, actually in the workshop not on the dance programs, which bothered me most was his set for Pretty Ladies. It's an 80 bar Strathspey, OK, but it begins with 8 hands round and back, the 1s and 3s do 8 bars of something, then the 2s and 4s repeat. Then... the 1s and 3s do 16 bars of something else and the 2s and 4s repeat, followed by a 24 bar coda. The musician played 32 bars, then changed tunes. I don't know what that felt like for the 1s and 3s - I was a 2 and the music didn't tell me to begin my 16-bar bit at all.
>
> So yes - to answer a question posed in a message posted later that I have not yet read - (some of the) dancers do listen to the music.
>
> Becky
>
> Becky Sager
> Marietta GA USA
>
>
> From: SMiskoe@aol.com
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: changing tunes
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:35:35 EDT
> When the contra dance musicians began creating sets, in the 1970's, the  practice of changing key soon followed.  The change usually comes when the  new active couple begins.Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
>
>
>
>

changing tunes

Message 55384 · RODERICK JOHNSTON · 23 Mar 2009 13:49:11 · Top

I seem to have set the cat amongst the pigeons with my comment that dancers don't really listen to the music.  Well, there is listening and 'listening'.
Yes we all hear the music and will sometimes hum along with a well known tune but as long as the music is appropriate and the phrasing fits in with the changes in the dance then it usally goes by unnoticed in the background.  Only when something goes wrong or perhaps the tune dosen't flow with the dance then we all notice.     I fequently have the opposite problem, I listen to the music, the interpretation, arrangement etc and before I know it, if I am not carefull, I have lost concentration on the dance. 

Rod
Fort William

changing tunes

Message 55385 · Etienne Ozorak · 23 Mar 2009 13:57:42 · Top

I don't know. It think it's more important to feel and respond to
the music rather than hear it, otherwise it's more like an
intellectual exercise.

Etienne
Meadville, PA USA

At 08:49 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:

>I seem to have set the cat amongst the pigeons with my comment that
>dancers don't really listen to the music. Well, there is listening
>and 'listening'.
>Yes we all hear the music and will sometimes hum along with a well
>known tune but as long as the music is appropriate and the phrasing
>fits in with the changes in the dance then it usally goes by
>unnoticed in the background. Only when something goes wrong or
>perhaps the tune dosen't flow with the dance then we all
>notice. I fequently have the opposite problem, I listen to the
>music, the interpretation, arrangement etc and before I know it, if
>I am not carefull, I have lost concentration on the dance.
>
>Rod
>Fort William

changing tunes

Message 55386 · Anselm Lingnau · 23 Mar 2009 14:45:26 · Top

Etienne Ozorak wrote:

> I don't know. It think it's more important to feel and respond to
> the music rather than hear it, otherwise it's more like an
> intellectual exercise.

I don't think the one necessarily precludes the other. As a dance teacher,
musician, arranger, and composer, I probably know a tad more about SCD music,
what makes it tick, and how it relates to dancing than your average dancer,
but I hate it when people tell me that THEY (unlike myself, is the implied
addition) FEEL the music. Come again? As if somebody who could actually hum
the lead tunes for more than three dances on an 18-dance program wasn't
entitled to »feel« something, too. I wonder how they think the musicians in
the band, who are often not dancers themselves and so need to approach the
music from an even more academic point of view, manage to put *any* feeling
into it at all.

I'll let my readers in on a secret: Knowing more about the music makes one
enjoy the music more, same as knowing more about dancing makes one enjoy
dancing more. As this applies to most human pursuits, it should not come as a
big surprise to anybody but, strangely, it does.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Their real success was in getting bought by Microsoft, which brought Groove's
designer and chief architecture-astronaut Ray Ozzie to the role of »Chief
Software Architect« at Microsoft, supposedly the technical guy that would
keep inventing the future after BillG left so that Steve Ballmer would have
some new territory on which to build his next illegal monopoly.
-- Joel Spolsky, on the Groove company

changing tunes

Message 55387 · Mike Briggs · 23 Mar 2009 15:19:27 · Top

And when did you ever expect consistency or clear thinking from any
member of the human race (you and me excepted), Anselm?

Mike Briggs
Oregon WI USA

changing tunes

Message 55392 · Angela Bulteel · 23 Mar 2009 18:02:03 · Top

How heartened I was to read Roderick Johnston's comments on dancer's not
really listening to the music, I really thought I was the only person in the
world who cared about the standard of music been played. Although I have
no musical training whatsoever, I am besotted with the tunes played for
scottish country dancing, I am almost pedantic about it, probably much to
the annoyance of my co-dancers. Tunes maketh the the dance.... good
musicians maketh the tune. When all these things are put together in my
favourite dances, I fly to another world. Unfortunately should even a wrong
bass note be played it brings me down to earth. The worst crime to me, is
when the following tunes do not blend well with the original for any given
dance, some medleys are positively ghastly, but when discussed with other
dancers I am usually met with "oh I didn't notice" or "I'm not as into the
tunes as you". Many do not seem to know the difference between a reel and a
jig!! I could go on but prefer not to blot my copybook any further!!!
PS, I hope one day to have a dance with you Rod. Angela

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changing tunes

Message 55393 · Angela Bulteel · 23 Mar 2009 18:08:06 · Top

I decided further to blot my copybook after all and state to the dancing
world, that it takes all my powers of strength to work up the enthusiasm to
dance a favourite scottish dance to an american barn dance tune. There ...
I've said it. Sorry America!!!! Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "RODERICK JOHNSTON" <roderick.johnston@btopenworld.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: changing tunes

I seem to have set the cat amongst the pigeons with my comment that dancers
don't really listen to the music. Well, there is listening and 'listening'.
Yes we all hear the music and will sometimes hum along with a well known
tune but as long as the music is appropriate and the phrasing fits in with
the changes in the dance then it usally goes by unnoticed in the background.
Only when something goes wrong or perhaps the tune dosen't flow with the
dance then we all notice. I fequently have the opposite problem, I listen to
the music, the interpretation, arrangement etc and before I know it, if I am
not carefull, I have lost concentration on the dance.

Rod
Fort William

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06:52:00

changing tunes

Message 55394 · SMiskoe · 23 Mar 2009 18:24:20 · Top

The artistic challenge of making up a set of tunes to match a given tune is
what really excites me. There are so many ways to do it. You are given an
18th century tune, you can match it with other 18th century tunes or you can
find contemporary ones with an 18th century feel. You are given a non-entity
of a tune and you have to find nice ones but remember that moving back for
the last round should not be too large a wrench. There are plenty of tunes
that make great supporting ones, especially for #4, but that are not
particularly good in any other position in the set. You can play games with titles:
The Hopeful Lover and I'll Tell my Ma. The Duke of Gordon and his birthday and
his relatives. And every so often a set that on paper and in the living
room should be fine for dancing, turns out to be a dud on the dance floor; or
conversely a set that is a little mundane on paper turns out to be such a
perfect fit that you always use it for that dance.
I could go on for more but I hope you have the point.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

changing tunes

Message 55396 · Mike Briggs · 23 Mar 2009 19:14:07 · Top

Well, Angela, I hope you can get over your feeling about 'barn dance' tunes, at least if you ever want to enjoy Mrs MacLeod of Raasay again.  Sorry to tell you this, but the lead tune happens to be what perhaps you mean by a 'barn dance' tune (as well as being a fine Scottish tune), except that over here it's called Uncle Joe.

Seriously, try listening to some of the Music Makars recordings, or Mrs MacLeod as played by John Taylor and Andrew Imbrie.  Perhaps you'll change your mind about 'barn dance' tunes.  (Though I do agree with you that Camptown Races and similar Stephen Foster tunes are really not a happy choice for SCD.  Maybe those are the kind of tunes you have in mind and not the good driving Southern Appalachian reels.)

Mike

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

+                     Mike and Norma Briggs                  +
+                      1519 Storytown Road                    +
+                  Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA              +
+  +1 608 835 0914 (voice) +1 608 237 2379 (fax)    +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

--- On Mon, 3/23/09, Angela Bulteel <a.bulteel@talktalk.net> wrote:

<snip>"it takes all my powers of strength to work up the enthusiasm to dance a favourite scottish dance to an american barn dance tune.  There ... I've said it.  Sorry America!!!!."

changing tunes

Message 55397 · Angela Bulteel · 23 Mar 2009 19:39:52 · Top

Hi Mike and Norma, I feel suitably chastised, but perhaps I should have
described the tunes I dislike played for scottish as more what we English
would call ho-down, while I must say I quite like ho-down music I draw the
line when played amond tunes such as, Reel of the 51st or Drowsy Maggie
etc., It takes all sorts though, but nice to hear from you so far away.
Regards Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norma or Mike Briggs" <briggslaw@yahoo.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: changing tunes

Well, Angela, I hope you can get over your feeling about 'barn dance' tunes,
at least if you ever want to enjoy Mrs MacLeod of Raasay again. Sorry to
tell you this, but the lead tune happens to be what perhaps you mean by a
'barn dance' tune (as well as being a fine Scottish tune), except that over
here it's called Uncle Joe.

Seriously, try listening to some of the Music Makars recordings, or Mrs
MacLeod as played by John Taylor and Andrew Imbrie. Perhaps you'll change
your mind about 'barn dance' tunes. (Though I do agree with you that
Camptown Races and similar Stephen Foster tunes are really not a happy
choice for SCD. Maybe those are the kind of tunes you have in mind and not
the good driving Southern Appalachian reels.)

Mike

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

+ Mike and Norma Briggs +
+ 1519 Storytown Road +
+ Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA +
+ +1 608 835 0914 (voice) +1 608 237 2379 (fax) +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

--- On Mon, 3/23/09, Angela Bulteel <a.bulteel@talktalk.net> wrote:

<snip>"it takes all my powers of strength to work up the enthusiasm to dance
a favourite scottish dance to an american barn dance tune. There ... I've
said it. Sorry America!!!!."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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06:52:00

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55408 · campbell · 24 Mar 2009 15:56:14 · Top

Angela wrote:
>perhaps I should have described the tunes I dislike played for scottish as
more >what we English would call ho-down, while I must say I quite like
ho-down >music I draw the line when played amond tunes such as, Reel of the
51st or > >Drowsy Maggie etc.,

The discussion around tunes and the appropriateness thereof (e.g. barn
dancing) has raised a question in my mind - how would we describe the
SCD-ness of our type of dancing - what makes us able to identify a
particular dance (and music) as belonging to SCD, rather than ECD, Old Tyme,
Barn dancing etc etc. If this has been discussed before please just point
me in the right direction but if not I would be interested to hear people's
views. I think it was when I heard the Gilbert and Sullivan music for
Fisherman's Reel for the first time that I began to wonder if I was hitting
the edges of SCD. With the "internationalisation" of SCD how far can we go
in building our own culture into what we do before it stops being SCD? I
once got my class to dance a strathspey to a local Afrikaans tune "Meisie
Sonder Sokkies" and they thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think most SCDers
would reject it outright. Where do we draw the line?

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55409 · mlamontbrown · 24 Mar 2009 18:11:32 · Top

Campbell wrote:
> With the "internationalisation" of SCD how far can we go
> in building our own culture into what we do before it stops being SCD? I
> once got my class to dance a strathspey to a local Afrikaans tune "Meisie
> Sonder Sokkies" and they thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think most SCDers
> would reject it outright. Where do we draw the line?

Well I really enjoy Marion Anderson's track for The Glengarry Homestead on her
recording for the Kangaroo Paw book (the tunes are "Clip Go the Shears" and "Waltzing
Matilda").

And I really don't like Rob Gordon's track for Seton's Ceilidh Band on his recording
Complete Caledonian Ball (the tune is Dancing Dustman, which sounds to me like
something played at an English "End of the Pier" concert) - To be honest, I don't
think the original tune sounds very Scottish either.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55411 · Etienne Ozorak · 24 Mar 2009 19:15:14 · Top

Regarding the original tune for Seton's, I agree that it does not
sound that Scottish.

However, there are tons of "vaudeville-style" Scottish song tunes
(like Harry Lauder's "Waggle O the Kilt" and the tune for Postie's
Jig "Lassie Come and Dance with Me") that have been chosen by
devisors and adapted for dancing over the course of the last 30-40
years. There are also polka/continental-sounding pieces like "J.B.
Milne and Shiftin' Bobbins" that don't really sound scottish,
especially compared with the more classical (Gow, Skinner)
material. But this is much like saying there isn't much of an Irish
feel to the American-Irish material like "Too-ra-loo-ra-loora".

When I used "Lassie Come and Dance" (I think it has words by Andy
Stewart), my students said it reminded them of Italian pizza-parlor music.

Etienne Ozorak
Meadville, PA USA

At 01:11 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote:
>Campbell wrote:
> > With the "internationalisation" of SCD how far can we go
> > in building our own culture into what we do before it stops being SCD? I
> > once got my class to dance a strathspey to a local Afrikaans tune "Meisie
> > Sonder Sokkies" and they thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think most SCDers
> > would reject it outright. Where do we draw the line?
>
>Well I really enjoy Marion Anderson's track for The Glengarry Homestead on her
>recording for the Kangaroo Paw book (the tunes are "Clip Go the
>Shears" and "Waltzing
>Matilda").
>
>And I really don't like Rob Gordon's track for Seton's Ceilidh Band
>on his recording
>Complete Caledonian Ball (the tune is Dancing Dustman, which sounds to me like
>something played at an English "End of the Pier" concert) - To be
>honest, I don't
>think the original tune sounds very Scottish either.
>
>Malcolm
>
>Malcolm L Brown
>York (UK)

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55413 · Angela Bulteel · 24 Mar 2009 19:26:26 · Top

Hi Etienne, the music you mention always reminds me of old men sitting in
deck chairs around a bandstand at the seaside with handkerchiefs on their
heads knotted on four corners to keep the sun off while they listen to the
cheery music being played for the holiday makers, Ugh!!!! Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Etienne Ozorak" <etozorak@allegheny.edu>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

> Regarding the original tune for Seton's, I agree that it does not
> sound that Scottish.
>
> However, there are tons of "vaudeville-style" Scottish song tunes
> (like Harry Lauder's "Waggle O the Kilt" and the tune for Postie's
> Jig "Lassie Come and Dance with Me") that have been chosen by
> devisors and adapted for dancing over the course of the last 30-40
> years. There are also polka/continental-sounding pieces like "J.B.
> Milne and Shiftin' Bobbins" that don't really sound scottish,
> especially compared with the more classical (Gow, Skinner)
> material. But this is much like saying there isn't much of an Irish
> feel to the American-Irish material like "Too-ra-loo-ra-loora".
>
> When I used "Lassie Come and Dance" (I think it has words by Andy
> Stewart), my students said it reminded them of Italian pizza-parlor music.
>
> Etienne Ozorak
> Meadville, PA USA
>
>
>
> At 01:11 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote:
>>Campbell wrote:
>> > With the "internationalisation" of SCD how far can we go
>> > in building our own culture into what we do before it stops being SCD?
>> > I
>> > once got my class to dance a strathspey to a local Afrikaans tune
>> > "Meisie
>> > Sonder Sokkies" and they thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think most SCDers
>> > would reject it outright. Where do we draw the line?
>>
>>Well I really enjoy Marion Anderson's track for The Glengarry Homestead on
>>her
>>recording for the Kangaroo Paw book (the tunes are "Clip Go the
>>Shears" and "Waltzing
>>Matilda").
>>
>>And I really don't like Rob Gordon's track for Seton's Ceilidh Band
>>on his recording
>>Complete Caledonian Ball (the tune is Dancing Dustman, which sounds to me
>>like
>>something played at an English "End of the Pier" concert) - To be
>>honest, I don't
>>think the original tune sounds very Scottish either.
>>
>>Malcolm
>>
>>Malcolm L Brown
>>York (UK)
>

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Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55429 · Anselm Lingnau · 25 Mar 2009 09:53:34 · Top

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> And I really don't like Rob Gordon's track for Seton's Ceilidh Band on his
> recording Complete Caledonian Ball (the tune is Dancing Dustman, which
> sounds to me like something played at an English "End of the Pier" concert)
> - To be honest, I don't think the original tune sounds very Scottish
> either.

I think it all depends. Sometimes adding a tune from another tradition can
really spruce up a set -- I do it occasionally but normally towards the end
of an evening programme.

As far as »not so Scottish sounding« *recommended* tunes for dances are
concerned, we need look no further than RSCDS book 41 for some choice
examples -- and if the Society can officially do it, why shouldn't anyone
else? :^) Furthermore, one ought to keep in mind that Scottish *music* has
developed during the last 200+ years, too. Many of the tunes we like are left
from the late 18th century, and that of course influences the »sound« we
expect to a certain degree, but if a Scottish composer today comes up with a
tune like, say, Christian Catto or Miss C.M. Barbour who is to say that that
is not a »Scottish« tune simply because it doesn't sound like what Niel Gow
or Scott Skinner might have written in their time?

Anyway, think of the whole issue as evolution in action. Much of the buzz in
Scottish country *dancing* now happens outside of Scotland, so it is no
surprise that music from other places is also making inroads. So far many of
the places outside Scotland where SCD is big are those where there is a big
presence of people of Scottish extraction and the corresponding music, but
SCD is growing in places that do not have a Scottish-type musical heritage,
like Germany, Poland, or Russia (to name some examples from continental
Europe). Given that the »Scottish« in SCD is really a historical accident, it
will be interesting to see whether in the future non-Scottish *lead* tunes
will begin to play a bigger role in what would then by rights have to be
called »International« country dancing (or simply country dancing, for
short :^)) or whether the community will decide that, with dance choreography
coming from all over the place, at least the music should be
vaguely »Scottish«.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable.
They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority,
soothing to their macerated egos; He will set them above their betters.
-- Henry Louis Mencken

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55430 · campbell · 25 Mar 2009 10:38:24 · Top

Hi Anselm,

Thank you for addressing what was for me the key question when I started
this thread. It does seem to me that we are heading in the direction you
describe. The music is going there faster than the dancing, with all sorts
of examples having been mentioned in previous contributions on this topic.
So we can handle (and indeed enjoy) Waltzing Matilda in The Glengarry
Homestead because the dance is recognisably SCD and Marian Anderson is
playing it on the accordion with an SCD Band. But what if the Japanese
start introducing movements from their heritage, or I devise a dance with a
"langarm" pousette formation which borrows directly from traditional
Afrikaans dancing, danced to a "boereorkes" band. Or we do a gumboot
setting step? Is this still SCD?

On a different tack, I wonder what Archbishop Tutu would say about Mencken's
message at the end of your last email. There have been a couple along these
lines recently, which never appeared before. Do you get these updated
online or are they a one-off batch you received ages ago? I am just
wondering if they are online whether the originators are taking a different
tack these days. They used to be just very humorous, now they are quite
biting at times. (Of course tackling Microsoft has always been fair game!)

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55433 · Anselm Lingnau · 25 Mar 2009 11:20:48 · Top

Campbell Tyler wrote:

> But what if the Japanese
> start introducing movements from their heritage, or I devise a dance with a
> "langarm" pousette formation which borrows directly from traditional
> Afrikaans dancing, danced to a "boereorkes" band. Or we do a gumboot
> setting step? Is this still SCD?

The problem with this is really that »SCD« as a concept -- *Scottish* country
dances as opposed to country dances from »elsewhere« -- is a fairly new idea.
Country dancing wasn't invented in Scotland but was imported there in the
16th and 17th centuries. When the Society started out in 1923, it was
about »country dances as danced in Scotland«; it was a »country dance«
society in and for Scotland rather than a »Scottish country dance« society.

When country dancing became popular, the Scots gradually took the opportunity
of adding elements of their own »pre-country dancing« social dancing to it,
such as the »set to and turn corners, reel of three« meme that derives from
setting/reeling type dances like the Foursome Reel. We don't know whether
this was creating much (if any) controversy at the time, but nowadays nobody
seems to worry a lot about it -- people tend to take it for granted.

This implies that in theory there should be nothing to keep you from adding
South African elements to »Scottish« country dancing. At least it would
definitely be in keeping with the tradition -- you're merely repeating what
happened to country dancing in Scotland in the late 1700s. Whether these
additions would please those who think that Scottish country dancing ought to
be »Scottish« formations danced to »Scottish« music, administered by an
organisation based in Scotland where the people in charge are Scottish is of
course anybody's guess.

Having said that, my own take is that the issue should be handled with great
care. One of the virtues of SCD as we know it is its standardisation, and I
happen to think that there is still considerable scope for exploration within
the confines of the »standard« formations before we require wholesale
additions from other traditions that look and feel a lot different from what
dancers are used to. SCD is social dancing, and as such it probably does not
profit from adding lots of -- albeit spectacular -- moves that people will
have to learn on top of what we already ask them to learn. It's the fact that
there is a reasonably large pool of *shared* bits to choose from that makes
SCD a workable form of social dance.

Personally I'm a much greater admirer of Hugh Foss than, say, John Drewry,
simply because Hugh Foss pushed the envelope of SCD in so many ways without
having to invent new formations by the dozen. On the other hand, I don't
think there's a lot wrong with coming up with new formations as long as they
derive from the same »DNA« that the rest of our dancing comes from. In my
mind things like La Baratte are borderline, and while I don't know what
a »langarm« poussette or gumboot setting steps look like, Balinese temple
dancing is probably right out as far as I'm concerned.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
You might find your soul mate at work. That will be your first clue that
there's something seriously wrong with your soul.
-- Scott Adams, _Dilbert's Guide to the Rest of your Life_

Errata

Message 55434 · Anselm Lingnau · 25 Mar 2009 11:24:59 · Top

I wrote:

> Country dancing wasn't invented in Scotland but was imported
> there in the 16th and 17th centuries.

That should read »17th and 18th centuries«. (As a computer scientist I'm used
to counting from zero and it sometimes shows.)

> When country dancing became popular, the Scots gradually took the
> opportunity of adding elements of their own »pre-country dancing« social
> dancing to it

That should read »became popular in the 18th century«.

Sorry for the confusion.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
What I want to see is »Intel Inside« toilet seat covers. -- Tim Smith

Errata

Message 55436 · Pia Walker · 25 Mar 2009 11:38:49 · Top

Is this where the extra 8 bars show? :>)

Pia

(As a computer scientist I'm used to counting from zero and it sometimes
shows.)

Errata

Message 55437 · Anselm Lingnau · 25 Mar 2009 11:46:36 · Top

Pia wrote:

> Is this where the extra 8 bars show? :>)

No, but I have to work hard at not numbering my bars 0-7, 8-15 and so on.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people happy?
-- A t-shirt seen in the West Village

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55439 · campbell · 25 Mar 2009 13:25:24 · Top

Anselm wrote:
In my mind things like La Baratte are borderline, and while I don't know
what a >langarm< poussette or gumboot setting steps look like, Balinese
temple dancing is probably right out as far as I'm concerned.

Neither do I but I am working on it!! :-) Pity about the Balinese temple
dancing though. But overall an interesting take on how our favourite past
time has evolved and therefore could evolve.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55452 · Rod Downey · 25 Mar 2009 20:21:27 · Top

Hi Campbell,

whilst appreciating the idea that SCD borrows from other
forms (pas de basque...), my understanding
is that waltzing matilda (first performed in 1895) uses a tune
much older than that called Craigielea or The Bonnie Lass
of Craigielea by Rober Tannerhill. (The great Song Theosaurus, 2nd ed)
Certainly Scottish.

Here it is used by Peter Elmes in his set for the Lea Rig
which is based on a set by Stan Hamilton for the same dance
and Stan also used the tune.

best

rod

Campbell Tyler said:>
> Thank you for addressing what was for me the key question when I started
> this thread. It does seem to me that we are heading in the direction you
> describe. The music is going there faster than the dancing, with all sorts
> of examples having been mentioned in previous contributions on this topic.
> So we can handle (and indeed enjoy) Waltzing Matilda in The Glengarry
> Homestead because the dance is recognisably SCD and Marian Anderson is
> playing it on the accordion with an SCD Band.

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55410 · Jim Healy · 24 Mar 2009 19:04:52 · Top

Greetings!


Campbell Tyler asks

> Where do we draw the line?


Individually.


I have certainly danced to a Strathspey set with Sarie Marais in it without problems and enjoy (most of) Jim Lindsay's Christmas offerings although I know a few who cannot abide that CD almost on principle. I have more of a problem with the playing of 100% traditional Scots slow airs as Strathspeys than I do with most band leaders' selections of the occasional 'furrin' material.

But at the end of the day, it's down to all of us. If I am uncomfortable with Dem Golden Slippers for Plantation Reel (I'm not!) but the rest of the hall is jumping, should I insist the band plays The Fairy Dance (or something) because it's Scots (discuss) or should I just head off to the bar?


Jim Healy

Perth, Scotland

_________________________________________________________________
All your Twitter and other social updates in one place
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Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55412 · Angela Bulteel · 24 Mar 2009 19:22:35 · Top

Oh Mr Healey, your note on using slow airs to dance strathspeys struck a
chord and is certainly my most favourite gripe. In fact I have written an
article for the RSCDS magazine which includes a large amount on this very
topic. I have such strong views on this subject perhaps |I had better just
say only that I would prefer to sit in the bar alone than dance a
strathspey to an air. I can feel the hackles rise at the very thought!!!
Better pour myself a G and T quickly !!! Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Healy" <jimhealy@hotmail.com>
To: "Strathspey List" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Greetings!

Campbell Tyler asks

> Where do we draw the line?

Individually.

I have certainly danced to a Strathspey set with Sarie Marais in it without
problems and enjoy (most of) Jim Lindsay's Christmas offerings although I
know a few who cannot abide that CD almost on principle. I have more of a
problem with the playing of 100% traditional Scots slow airs as Strathspeys
than I do with most band leaders' selections of the occasional 'furrin'
material.

But at the end of the day, it's down to all of us. If I am uncomfortable
with Dem Golden Slippers for Plantation Reel (I'm not!) but the rest of the
hall is jumping, should I insist the band plays The Fairy Dance (or
something) because it's Scots (discuss) or should I just head off to the
bar?

Jim Healy

Perth, Scotland

_________________________________________________________________
All your Twitter and other social updates in one place
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/

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Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55414 · Jim Healy · 24 Mar 2009 19:27:07 · Top

Oh Angela,


Mr Healy was my father. I'm Jim, please.


J

_________________________________________________________________
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Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55415 · Angela Bulteel · 24 Mar 2009 19:47:05 · Top

Hello Jim so sorry about that, perhaps you could join me in a G and T while
we pontificate on the unmentionable topic! We could start with the emotive
Dream Catcher!!! Angela

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Healy" <jimhealy@hotmail.com>
To: "Strathspey List" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Oh Angela,

Mr Healy was my father. I'm Jim, please.

J

_________________________________________________________________
View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place – Learn more!
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/

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18:51:00

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55421 · Patricia Ruggiero · 25 Mar 2009 02:49:01 · Top

> Hello Jim so sorry about that, perhaps you could join me in a G and T
> while
> we pontificate on the unmentionable topic! We could start with the
> emotive
> Dream Catcher!!! Angela

Mind if I join you and Jim for that drink? (Make mine a Scotch, please.) I
don't just sit out Dream Catcher; I leave the room so as not to hear the
music.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55423 · Brian Charlton · 25 Mar 2009 02:52:59 · Top

G'Day,

It amazes me how high Dream Catcher appears on Campbell's list of most
used dances. I'll partake of a single malt too.

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

2009/3/25 Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>:
>> Hello Jim so sorry about that, perhaps you could join me in a G and T
>> while
>> we pontificate on the unmentionable topic!   We could start with the
>> emotive
>> Dream Catcher!!! Angela
>
> Mind if I join you and Jim for that drink?  (Make mine a Scotch, please.)  I
> don't just sit out Dream Catcher; I leave the room so as not to hear the
> music.
>
> Pat
> Charlottesville, Virginia
> USA
>
>
>

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55424 · Paula · 25 Mar 2009 03:55:36 · Top

I'm with you guys; make mine a Talisker. Also love the Broadford Bay set
on Drummond Cook's
Highlander #6.

Paula
Aptos, CA

Brian Charlton wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> It amazes me how high Dream Catcher appears on Campbell's list of most
> used dances. I'll partake of a single malt too.
>
> Brian Charlton,
> Sydney, Australia
>
> 2009/3/25 Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>:
>
>>> Hello Jim so sorry about that, perhaps you could join me in a G and T
>>> while
>>> we pontificate on the unmentionable topic! We could start with the
>>> emotive
>>> Dream Catcher!!! Angela
>>>
>> Mind if I join you and Jim for that drink? (Make mine a Scotch, please.) I
>> don't just sit out Dream Catcher; I leave the room so as not to hear the
>> music.
>>
>> Pat
>> Charlottesville, Virginia
>> USA
>>
Re: Drummond Cook:
>> The whole CD is great, as is their earlier LP 'Tae Gar Ye Loup'.
>>
>> Brian Charlton,
>> Sydney, Australia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55432 · mlamontbrown · 25 Mar 2009 11:10:10 · Top

Interesting how the contributors have so far indicated their dislike of "The Dream
Catcher"; It is nice to find that for once I'm in the majority (judging by its
appearance on Campbell's list) - I like both the dance and the tune.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55435 · Pia Walker · 25 Mar 2009 11:37:06 · Top

So do I - so you are not alone - although it gets danced sooooo often - I'm
one of those saddies that really, really like slow, langorous, romantic
strathspeys - where you can dance to and with your heart's desire.

I did hear one well known musician - look at the evening's programme and say
(very ironically)

Oh look Dreamcatcher is on the menu - I don't think I have ever played
that!!!!!

Perhaps overkill has something to do with the fatique.
Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 25 March 2009 10:10
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Interesting how the contributors have so far indicated their dislike of "The
Dream
Catcher"; It is nice to find that for once I'm in the majority (judging by
its
appearance on Campbell's list) - I like both the dance and the tune.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55438 · Angela Bulteel · 25 Mar 2009 13:00:38 · Top

Re Malcolm and Dream Catcher. I believe I may have inadvertantly started
the correspondense of the Dream Catcher, so would like to put the record
straight as to my meaning. The Dream Catcher is a nice dance, the tunes
played for this are very beautiful indeed. However, In my opinion, the two
should never have beene put together. A strathspey should have a
relatively strong beat to inspire the dancers to their best. My
observations of this dance are that by the 24th bar of music, the dancers
are flopping around the set as if shuffling in slippers, arms drooping,
bodies incongruously swaying from side to side, and each dancer, with eyes
glazed wearing a dreamlike grin, and giving the impression of being under
the influence of some banned substance. Not my idea of scottish country
dancing. Er....Perhaps that why its called the Dream Catcher!!!! Now...
back to my G and T. Can I pour one for anyone else???

----- Original Message -----
From: "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

> Interesting how the contributors have so far indicated their dislike of
> "The Dream
> Catcher"; It is nice to find that for once I'm in the majority (judging by
> its
> appearance on Campbell's list) - I like both the dance and the tune.
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>
>

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07:16:00

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55457 · Helen Brown · 26 Mar 2009 00:37:07 · Top

Angela wrote:

My observations of this dance are that by the 24th bar of music, the dancers

are flopping around the set as if shuffling in slippers, arms drooping,
bodies incongruously swaying from side to side, and each dancer, with eyes
glazed wearing a dreamlike grin, and giving the impression of being under
the influence of some banned substance. Not my idea of scottish country
dancing.

I'm not sure who or where you have been watching this lovely dance, but I
have never seen it danced as described above, particularly not by the team
in Australia on the DVD for Book 45.

Helen

Helen C N Brown
York, UK

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55477 · Angela Bulteel · 26 Mar 2009 13:00:23 · Top

Helen, please forgive me ,I would not suggest for one moment that a
demonstration team would dance The Dream Catcher as if in slippers and under
the "influence"!! I merely observed that at an ordinary dance or ball, the
music for this dance seems to encourage a somewhat soporific attitude in the
dancers at the expense of style, footwork and posture, which in my own
personal view I find derogatory to the whole ethos of Scottish country
dancing. As I have previously stated, the tune is beautiful and the dance
very good, my own view is that an air is not a strathspey and I wish they
were not used together. Happy dancing Angela

----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen Brown" <hcnbrown@supanet.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Angela wrote:

My observations of this dance are that by the 24th bar of music, the dancers

are flopping around the set as if shuffling in slippers, arms drooping,
bodies incongruously swaying from side to side, and each dancer, with eyes
glazed wearing a dreamlike grin, and giving the impression of being under
the influence of some banned substance. Not my idea of scottish country
dancing.

I'm not sure who or where you have been watching this lovely dance, but I
have never seen it danced as described above, particularly not by the team
in Australia on the DVD for Book 45.

Helen

Helen C N Brown
York, UK

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

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07:16:00

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55440 · nachteule7 · 25 Mar 2009 13:48:52 · Top

I fully agree with you Malcolm, I liked both from the 1st moment on.
Some groups from Germany tested dances for the book 45 (where Dreamcatcher is from) and 95 % of the dancers liked/loved it. In our group in wuppertal we hold an extra Sunday aftoon to test the dances, and by coincident I had choosen a recording in the same style as it is now. To my pleasure it was on several programmes in mainland Europe in the last 2 years.

Martina Mueller-Franz
Langenfeld / Germany

Nachteule7@aol.com
www.central-germany.rscds.net
skype: strathspey64

-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com>
An: strathspey@strathspey.org
Verschickt: Mi., 25. Mrz. 2009, 11:10
Thema: RE: Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Interesting how the contributors have so far indicated their dislike of "The
ream
atcher"; It is nice to find that for once I'm in the majority (judging by its
ppearance on Campbell's list) - I like both the dance and the tune.
Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
ork (UK)

________________________________________________________________________
AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort können Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos.

James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)

Message 55441 · Mike Briggs · 25 Mar 2009 15:53:36 · Top

I wish you guys would stop making me chase wild geese. The posts about
Heart's Desire, one of the tunes in a set used for Cape Town Wedding,
prompted me to begin my own search for an on-line source for the tune,
which turned up squat. However, I did learn that the tune was by one
James M. Bannerman, who also wrote that catchy little number the Uist
Tramping Song. So I looked him up. I couldn't find any direct
attributions, but I did find a very nice Wikipedia bio
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bannerman,_Baron_Bannerman_of_Kildonan>
of James MacDonald Bannerman, a native of South Uist. He had the same
birth and death dates as the composer, and I strongly suspect they were
one and the same. James Mac B was quite a renaissance man --
international rugger player, farmer, university rector, Liberal
politician and finally a member of the House of the Lords as Baron
Bannerman of Kildonan. Can anyone confirm that Lord Bannerman did
indeed write Heart's Desire and the Uist Tramping Song (and does anyone
have a copy of Heart's Desire that they would share with me)?
Meanwhile, having found my wild goose, je reviendrai à mes moutons.
They should go well together.

Mike Briggs
Oregon WI USA

James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)

Message 55443 · Rebecca Sager · 25 Mar 2009 17:03:13 · Top

Dance Data has four recordings of Heart's Desire listed, tune credited to John M Bannerman 1901-1969, the dates in the Wikipedia article. Don't know who James was?

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

From: Norma and Mike Briggs <briggslaw@yahoo.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:53:36 -050
I wish you guys would stop making me chase wild geese. The posts about Heart's Desire, one of the tunes in a set used for Cape Town Wedding, prompted me to begin my own search for an on-line source for the tune, which turned up squat. However, I did learn that the tune was by one James M. Bannerman, who also wrote that catchy little number the Uist Tramping Song. So I looked him up. I couldn't find any direct attributions, but I did find a very nice Wikipedia bio <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bannerman,_Baron_Bannerman_of_Kildonan> of James MacDonald Bannerman, a native of South Uist. He had the same birth and death dates as the composer, and I strongly suspect they were one and the same. James Mac B was quite a renaissance man -- international rugger player, farmer, university rector, Liberal politician and finally a member of the House of the Lords as Baron Bannerman of Kildonan. Can anyone confirm that Lord Bannerman did indeed write Heart's Desire and the Uist Tramping Song (and does anyone have a copy of Heart's Desire that they would share with me)? Meanwhile, having found my wild goose, je reviendrai à mes moutons. They should go well together.Mike BriggsOregon WI USA


James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)

Message 55445 · Mike Briggs · 25 Mar 2009 17:16:47 · Top

Sorry, my bad.  Both (?) these guys were John M B, not James.

Mike

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+                     Mike and Norma Briggs                  +
+                      1519 Storytown Road                    +
+                  Oregon WI 53711-1925 USA              +
+  +1 608 835 0914 (voice) +1 608 237 2379 (fax)    +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Becky Sager <bsager3@juno.com> wrote:
From: Becky Sager <bsager3@juno.com>
Subject: Re: James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 11:03 AM

Dance Data has four recordings of Heart's Desire listed, tune credited to
John M Bannerman 1901-1969, the dates in the Wikipedia article. Don't know
who James was?

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

From: Norma and Mike Briggs <briggslaw@yahoo.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: James M. Bannerman (was Essence of SCD)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:53:36 -050
I wish you guys would stop making me chase wild geese. The posts about
Heart's Desire, one of the tunes in a set used for Cape Town Wedding,
prompted me to begin my own search for an on-line source for the tune, which
turned up squat. However, I did learn that the tune was by one James M.
Bannerman, who also wrote that catchy little number the Uist Tramping Song. So
I looked him up. I couldn't find any direct attributions, but I did find a
very nice Wikipedia bio
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bannerman,_Baron_Bannerman_of_Kildonan>
of James MacDonald Bannerman, a native of South Uist. He had the same birth and
death dates as the composer, and I strongly suspect they were one and the same.
James Mac B was quite a renaissance man -- international rugger player, farmer,
university rector, Liberal politician and finally a member of the House of the
Lords as Baron Bannerman of Kildonan. Can anyone confirm that Lord Bannerman
did indeed write Heart's Desire and the Uist Tramping Song (and does anyone
have a copy of Heart's Desire that they would share with me)? Meanwhile,
having found my wild goose, je reviendrai à mes moutons. They should go well
together.Mike BriggsOregon WI USA


Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55454 · Peter McClure · 25 Mar 2009 23:57:42 · Top

>Interesting how the contributors have so far indicated their dislike
>of "The Dream
>Catcher"; It is nice to find that for once I'm in the majority (judging by its
>appearance on Campbell's list) - I like both the dance and the tune.

As do I. I think the only people I know who don't like this one are
those who object to any slow airs - and even one or two of them may
weaken in this case.

On a slightly tangential track, how do people feel about SCD bands
using "non-traditional" instruments? I'm thinking of one of the
"Dancing Through the Miscellanies" recordings, where a flute is used,
along with other more usual instruments.

(Actually, I don't think flutes are "non traditional", at least not
if one imagines that "tradition" goes back to the 18th century.
Also, while they are not common in SCD bands, there are players -
Chris Norman, for one - who could lift any set off the floor with a
"traditional" Scottish set.)

Peter McClure
Winnipeg, MB

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55456 · SMiskoe · 26 Mar 2009 00:26:57 · Top

Flutes are traditional. The 18th century composers, including Neil Gow,
created flute arrangements. They just fell out of fashion.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55416 · Steve Wyrick · 24 Mar 2009 19:59:14 · Top

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Campbell Tyler <campbell@tyler.co.za>wrote:

> Angela wrote:
> >perhaps I should have described the tunes I dislike played for scottish as
> more >what we English would call ho-down, while I must say I quite like
> ho-down >music I draw the line when played amond tunes such as, Reel of the
> 51st or > >Drowsy Maggie etc.,
>
> The discussion around tunes and the appropriateness thereof (e.g. barn
> dancing) has raised a question in my mind - how would we describe the
> SCD-ness of our type of dancing - what makes us able to identify a
> particular dance (and music) as belonging to SCD, rather than ECD, Old
> Tyme,
> Barn dancing etc etc. If this has been discussed before please just point
> me in the right direction but if not I would be interested to hear people's
> views. I think it was when I heard the Gilbert and Sullivan music for
> Fisherman's Reel for the first time that I began to wonder if I was hitting
> the edges of SCD. With the "internationalisation" of SCD how far can we go
> in building our own culture into what we do before it stops being SCD? I
> once got my class to dance a strathspey to a local Afrikaans tune "Meisie
> Sonder Sokkies" and they thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think most SCDers
> would reject it outright. Where do we draw the line?
>
> Campbell Tyler
> Cape Town
>
>
>
My feeling is that "SCD-ness" has more to do with how we dance the dance or
play the tune rather than any sort of pedigree. For example, Red House
(English?) becomes a Scottish country dance when danced in the SCD style.
Roaring Jelly (Irish) becomes an SCD tune when used for the Scottish country
dance of the same name and played in the SCD style. "Hoe-Down" tunes almost
always have their roots in Scottish-Irish music (Old Molly Hare=Largo's
Fairy Dance, Uncle John/Hop High Ladies=Mrs. McLeod, Turkey in the Straw=The
Old Bog Hole, etc.) but become Hoe-Down tunes when played in the old-time
American style.

I agree with Jim Healy that the line is individual preference. I tend to be
uncomfortable playing sets with tunes with no discernable "celtic" heritage
(particularly tunes that have to be massaged to fit into 32 bars) but others
feel differently--as I realized from hearing about the reception of the set
for Maxwell's Rant that featured all Beatles tunes played at a recent ball
here...
--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California
Sent from: Berkeley California United States.

Essence of SCD (was changing tunes)

Message 55417 · SMiskoe · 24 Mar 2009 20:37:24 · Top

The given tune for Twa Minute Reel is Whistlin' Rufus, by Kerry Mills, 1899.
It derives from the Cake Walk dances of the slaves. Cakewalks were
featured in Minstrel Shows and then became popular dances in the UK. There are
words which are so politically incorrect it is hard to find them and nobody would
ever sing them in public today.
Twa Minute is a popular dance but the music sure isn't Scottish.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

Help

Message 55734 · Stephen Coombs · 22 Apr 2009 00:59:13 · Top

Can anyone tell me the significance of the title of the dance The 96 Ten?

Thanks,

Steve

Help

Message 55735 · Paula · 22 Apr 2009 01:14:55 · Top

I can tell you, because I was in one of them...

Quoting the dedication in the Silver Thistle Collection:
"For the 1996 first fortnight Certificate Class at Summer School. (It
was the first Summer School
class to be held for both Certificates together.) This was a happy group
of three Full Certificate and
seven Preliminary Test candidates."

The class was superbly taught by Brenda Burnell, who devised the dance.

Paula Jacobson

Steve Coombs wrote:
> Can anyone tell me the significance of the title of the dance The 96 Ten?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>

Help

Message 55736 · Stephen Coombs · 22 Apr 2009 01:24:35 · Top

Congratulations, and thank you for the information.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paula" <pj1314@att.net>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Help

>I can tell you, because I was in one of them...
>
> Quoting the dedication in the Silver Thistle Collection:
> "For the 1996 first fortnight Certificate Class at Summer School. (It was
> the first Summer School
> class to be held for both Certificates together.) This was a happy group
> of three Full Certificate and
> seven Preliminary Test candidates."
>
> The class was superbly taught by Brenda Burnell, who devised the dance.
>
> Paula Jacobson
>
> Steve Coombs wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me the significance of the title of the dance The 96 Ten?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
>

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