strathspey Archive: CD information

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CD information

Message 54016 · mlamontbrown · 2 Nov 2008 13:29:18 · Top

Greetings

I have been busy transferring our CDs to my new mp3 player, and have been struck by
the variety of information and formats that have been downloaded to the Gracenote
database.

Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided to use this
to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.

Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common standard?

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

CD information

Message 54017 · Anselm Lingnau · 2 Nov 2008 14:21:22 · Top

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided to
> use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.
>
> Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
> standard?

»The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.«
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

Before we agree on a common standard for »genres« we need to agree which
flavour of MP3 information tags (»ID3«) we want to support. The older
standard (version 1) is severely limited in what you can do -- it basically
gives you artist, album, track name, a »comment« and a single selection out
of a fixed set of (fairly arbitrary) »genres«, for a total of at most 128
bytes of data, but many programs and especially devices (such as
self-contained MP3 players) only support this. Free-text genres came in with
ID3-1.1, but many player programs and devices don't grok them. The newer
standard (version 2, with several sub-flavours, the current one
being »ID3v2.4«) is more flexible but not as widely supported. The nice thing
about ID3v2.4 is that it allows for application-specific extensions.

For my own »SCDplayer« software, which I hope to release as an open-source
program in time for Christmas, I have come up with a set of extensions that
cover what I need, together with a CD »ripper/tagger« tool that will apply
appropriate tags to MP3 files based on DanceData. I do have a file with notes
on these extensions somewhere, and I suppose I could put it up on the web for
interested parties to peruse, although I should say that from the point of
view of users of self-contained devices most of what is in it will amount to
wishful thinking. I would be happy to work with others towards a common
standard that helps most people.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
The scary thing about platforms is that there are always some that seem to
outsiders to be fine, responsible choices and yet, like Windows in the 90s,
will destroy you if you choose them. Java applets were probably the most
spectacular example. -- Paul Graham, »The 18 Mistakes That Kill Startups«

CD information

Message 54018 · mlamontbrown · 2 Nov 2008 15:06:21 · Top

It wasn't so much the Genre, as the basic titles I was complaining about - apart from
the inconsistencies with capitalization, there seems to a wide majority who have put
"THE" and "A" at the beginning, which makes finding the tracks for a particular dance
much harder.

Similarly, we have variations with the type of dance (R / J / S) appearing in a
variety of positions, from R 4x32 to 4x32J and even 4J32. (Not counting the other
variations, such as 4x32 Jig)

I suppose I should be happy that I don't have to type the track titles in, but it
seems a pity that what could have been a useful tool has become so limited because of
a lack of consistency.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
> Sent: 02 November 2008 13:21
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: CD information
>
> Malcolm Brown wrote:
>
> > Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided to
> > use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.
> >
> > Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
> > standard?
>
> >The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.<
> -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
>
> Before we agree on a common standard for >genres< we need to agree which
> flavour of MP3 information tags (>ID3<) we want to support. The older
> standard (version 1) is severely limited in what you can do -- it basically
> gives you artist, album, track name, a >comment< and a single selection out
> of a fixed set of (fairly arbitrary) >genres<, for a total of at most 128
> bytes of data, but many programs and especially devices (such as
> self-contained MP3 players) only support this. Free-text genres came in with
> ID3-1.1, but many player programs and devices don't grok them. The newer
> standard (version 2, with several sub-flavours, the current one
> being >ID3v2.4<) is more flexible but not as widely supported. The nice thing
> about ID3v2.4 is that it allows for application-specific extensions.
>
> For my own >SCDplayer< software, which I hope to release as an open-source
> program in time for Christmas, I have come up with a set of extensions that
> cover what I need, together with a CD >ripper/tagger< tool that will apply
> appropriate tags to MP3 files based on DanceData. I do have a file with notes
> on these extensions somewhere, and I suppose I could put it up on the web for
> interested parties to peruse, although I should say that from the point of
> view of users of self-contained devices most of what is in it will amount to
> wishful thinking. I would be happy to work with others towards a common
> standard that helps most people.
>
> Anselm
> --
> Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
> The scary thing about platforms is that there are always some that seem to
> outsiders to be fine, responsible choices and yet, like Windows in the 90s,
> will destroy you if you choose them. Java applets were probably the most
> spectacular example. -- Paul Graham, >The 18 Mistakes That Kill Startups<

CD information

Message 54025 · Rebecca Sager · 2 Nov 2008 18:35:22 · Top

What is the Gracenote data base? When ripping CDs I notice that the genre field for the CDs that (dare I say it) Windows Media Player recognizes is usually Folk or World. I edit that on my computer for synch. with my mp3 player to J 8x32, S 3x48, etc. etc.but always have to do it manually.
I'm replying to Malcolm's original post as I didn't understand a bit of Anselm's reply - there's obviously a lot of stuff out there that many of us have no clue about.

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

-- "mlamontbrown" <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Greetings

I have been busy transferring our CDs to my new mp3 player, and have been struck by
the variety of information and formats that have been downloaded to the Gracenote
database.

Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided to use this
to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.

Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common standard?

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

CD information

Message 54051 · mlamontbrown · 3 Nov 2008 11:17:16 · Top

Becky wrote:
> What is the Gracenote data base? When ripping CDs I notice that the genre field for
the CDs
> that (dare I say it) Windows Media Player recognizes is usually Folk or World. I
edit that on
> my computer for synch. with my mp3 player to J 8x32, S 3x48, etc. etc.but always
have to do
> it manually.

There are two main databases on the internet that are used by programmes that rip
CDs.

Gracenote is the one accessed by the programme I am currently using -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB gives a description of how it works and its
history. (I believe that if a CD is not in the database, or if the data is incorrect,
it is possible to change the data in the database, as well as on the local computer).

Windows Media Player has its own separate database which it accesses when it rips a
CD,
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/knowledgecenter/howto/AlbumInfo_how_to.
aspx , and again it enables users to enter data for new CDs.

What I find slightly odd is that my programme uses Gracenotes, but then stores the
resulting files with a .wma (Media Player) extension.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

CD information

Message 54052 · Anselm Lingnau · 3 Nov 2008 11:45:58 · Top

Malcolm Brown wrote:

> Gracenote is the one accessed by the programme I am currently using -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB gives a description of how it works and
> its history. (I believe that if a CD is not in the database, or if the data
> is incorrect, it is possible to change the data in the database, as well as
> on the local computer).

One idea that crosses my mind every so often is to extend the DanceData web
frontend on http://my.strathspey.org/ to function as a CDDB (a.k.a.
Gracenote) protocol server. Any CD-reading program based on Gracenote or its
freely available cousin, FreeDB, could be pointed to it to have instant
access to the database's info on SCD CDs. For added credit, if we were asked
for a CD that is not in the database (maybe because it is not an SCD CD), we
could bounce the request off to FreeDB (if not Gracenote) and see what that
turns up, so the program would also work for non-SCD content and hence could
be used as the default CDDB server for SCD aficionados who also listen to
non-SCD music on occasion. The advantage of this approach would be that we
would instantly have standardised track titles, band and album names by
virtue of the effort Alan has put into getting all of these organised for the
database.

The main problem with this project is that we would need to figure out the
indexes CDDB calculates from the track lengths and offsets of tracks on the
CD. This is easy to do (given appropriate software) if you have access to the
actual CD but cannot be automated just from the track listings in DanceData.
(A more detailed description is on the Wikipedia page Malcolm cited.) This
calls for an approach where everyone checks their CD shelves (or the data for
already-ripped CDs on their computers) and sends me just the CDDB1 IDs for
their CDs, which I would incorporate in the database. In actual practice, we
would have a special page listing CDs in the database that didn't have a
CDDB1 value yet, so one could compare that list against one's stash of CDs in
order to save effort; a new index submission for any CD would instantly
remove it from the to-do list and make that CD accessible via CDDB1, just
like on a Gracenote server. The to-do list would start out listing all SCD
CDs in the database (probably minus the ones I own myself), and its length
would hopefully diminish very quickly.

Incidentally, there are now 248 albums in DanceData listed as »available on
CD«. Sounds eminently doable.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Of all the great programmers I can think of, I know of only one who would
voluntarily program in Java. And of all the great programmers I can think of
who don't work for Sun, on Java, I know of zero.- Paul Graham, _Great Hackers_

CD information

Message 54053 · Ian Brown · 3 Nov 2008 14:54:02 · Top

Anselm, I'm not clear what are the indexes that your email
refers to but it did lead me to wonder whether your proposal
would lead to one of the features I have always missed.
That is, when a CD is being played I should like to know not
only the dance's name but the tune that is being played at
that time.

I suspect that this information cannot be stored on the
audio CD but increasingly audio players are capable of
reading music recorded in MP3 format and I had wondered
whether that might open up the possibility.

Ian Brown
Harrogate Saltire Scottish Country Dance Club

One idea that crosses my mind every so often is to extend
the DanceData web
frontend on http://my.strathspey.org/ to function as a CDDB
(a.k.a.
Gracenote) protocol server. Any CD-reading program based on
Gracenote or its
freely available cousin, FreeDB, could be pointed to it to
have instant
access to the database's info on SCD CDs. For added credit,
if we were asked
for a CD that is not in the database (maybe because it is
not an SCD CD), we
could bounce the request off to FreeDB (if not Gracenote)
and see what that
turns up, so the program would also work for non-SCD content
and hence could
be used as the default CDDB server for SCD aficionados who
also listen to
non-SCD music on occasion. The advantage of this approach
would be that we
would instantly have standardised track titles, band and
album names by
virtue of the effort Alan has put into getting all of these
organised for the
database.

The main problem with this project is that we would need to
figure out the
indexes CDDB calculates from the track lengths and offsets
of tracks on the
CD. This is easy to do (given appropriate software) if you
have access to the
actual CD but cannot be automated just from the track
listings in DanceData.
(A more detailed description is on the Wikipedia page
Malcolm cited.) This
calls for an approach where everyone checks their CD shelves
(or the data for
already-ripped CDs on their computers) and sends me just the
CDDB1 IDs for
their CDs, which I would incorporate in the database. In
actual practice, we
would have a special page listing CDs in the database that
didn't have a
CDDB1 value yet, so one could compare that list against
one's stash of CDs in
order to save effort; a new index submission for any CD
would instantly
remove it from the to-do list and make that CD accessible
via CDDB1, just
like on a Gracenote server. The to-do list would start out
listing all SCD
CDs in the database (probably minus the ones I own myself),
and its length
would hopefully diminish very quickly.

Incidentally, there are now 248 albums in DanceData listed
as >available on
CD<. Sounds eminently doable.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
anselm@strathspey.org
Of all the great programmers I can think of, I know of only
one who would
voluntarily program in Java. And of all the great
programmers I can think of
who don't work for Sun, on Java, I know of zero.- Paul
Graham, _Great Hackers_

CD information

Message 54054 · sophie.rickebusch · 3 Nov 2008 16:26:30 · Top

Sounds like a good idea Anselm, I'm all for going through my collection
of CDs and getting the required info, if you can perhaps post some
instructions about how you want it done (and possibly a template for
data submission, so we can all send it in a useful format).

It might even encourage me to put all my CDs away properly, instead of
just rummaging through the box ;-)

Sophie

>----Original Message----
>From: anselm@strathspey.org
>Date: Nov 3, 2008 10:45
>To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: Re: CD information
>
>Malcolm Brown wrote:
>
>> Gracenote is the one accessed by the programme I am currently using
-
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB gives a description of how it
works and
>> its history. (I believe that if a CD is not in the database, or if
the data
>> is incorrect, it is possible to change the data in the database, as
well as
>> on the local computer).
>
>One idea that crosses my mind every so often is to extend the
DanceData web
>frontend on http://my.strathspey.org/ to function as a CDDB (a.k.a.
>Gracenote) protocol server. Any CD-reading program based on Gracenote
or its
>freely available cousin, FreeDB, could be pointed to it to have
instant
>access to the database's info on SCD CDs. For added credit, if we
were asked
>for a CD that is not in the database (maybe because it is not an SCD
CD), we
>could bounce the request off to FreeDB (if not Gracenote) and see
what that
>turns up, so the program would also work for non-SCD content and
hence could
>be used as the default CDDB server for SCD aficionados who also
listen to
>non-SCD music on occasion. The advantage of this approach would be
that we
>would instantly have standardised track titles, band and album names
by
>virtue of the effort Alan has put into getting all of these organised
for the
>database.
>
>The main problem with this project is that we would need to figure
out the
>indexes CDDB calculates from the track lengths and offsets of tracks
on the
>CD. This is easy to do (given appropriate software) if you have
access to the
>actual CD but cannot be automated just from the track listings in
DanceData.
>(A more detailed description is on the Wikipedia page Malcolm cited.)
This
>calls for an approach where everyone checks their CD shelves (or the
data for
>already-ripped CDs on their computers) and sends me just the CDDB1
IDs for
>their CDs, which I would incorporate in the database. In actual
practice, we
>would have a special page listing CDs in the database that didn't
have a
>CDDB1 value yet, so one could compare that list against one's stash
of CDs in
>order to save effort; a new index submission for any CD would
instantly
>remove it from the to-do list and make that CD accessible via CDDB1,
just
>like on a Gracenote server. The to-do list would start out listing
all SCD
>CDs in the database (probably minus the ones I own myself), and its
length
>would hopefully diminish very quickly.
>
>Incidentally, there are now 248 albums in DanceData listed as »
available on
>CD«. Sounds eminently doable.
>
>Anselm
>--
>Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
anselm@strathspey.org
>Of all the great programmers I can think of, I know of only one who
would
>voluntarily program in Java. And of all the great programmers I can
think of
>who don't work for Sun, on Java, I know of zero.- Paul Graham, _Great
Hackers_
>

CD information

Message 54055 · Anselm Lingnau · 3 Nov 2008 16:49:28 · Top

Ian Brown wrote:

> That is, when a CD is being played I should like to know not
> only the dance's name but the tune that is being played at
> that time.

My ID3v2-based proposal does include a tag to specify tunes, and
my »SCDplayer« program displays a list of all the tunes involved in the MP3
file (and allows searching for MP3 files including a specific tune). This
will probably not buy one a lot on one's iPod, though.

One could put all the tune names in an MP3 file's »track name«, like »The Duke
of Perth: Original/The Lass o' Patie's Mill/Old Grey Cat/Staten Island«, but
that would pretty much tie you to ID3v2 tags, as with ID3v1 (which is the
earlier version that is the only one many MP3 players understand) you are
limited to 30 characters (90 with an extension, but that's still not a lot).
ID3v2 tags may be essentially arbitrarily long.

»At that time« is a bit difficult unless someone sits down and notes the tune
change times. Bands have this pesky habit of using different tune orders. The
technical basis for getting this done in spite of this can probably be found
by checking out how karaoke recordings work -- I seem to remember that there
is a way of specifying text snippets à la »at time such-and-such during
playback, show text this-and-so for 5 seconds«. This could probably be used
for crib notes as well.

Couple that with speech synthesis and play it on your iPod earplugs at the
next recorded-music-only social dance, and everyone should be surprised at
how you can do all these very difficult dances without a recap.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
A celebrity is one who is known to many persons he is glad he doesn't know.
-- Henry Louis Mencken

CD information

Message 54027 · suepetyt · 2 Nov 2008 18:51:50 · Top

I change the Genre to J(8x32) etc and the text is predictive so once you
have typed one in, it will try to guess what you are going to type, so even
when you have a lot of J(nx32) most of the time it saves you typing the last
2 characters (not much but every little helps!).

As for 'The' & 'A' ITunes ignores these in the sort so they are not a
problem for me.

I would like to know where the data for the Gracenotes database comes from.
The CDs we produce appear on the database and we have never submitted any
information to anything which appears to be such a database. My suspicion
is that the information must come from the licence details which we fill in
and send to MCPS (Mechanical Copyright) in which case 'someone' must have
entered them and this may explain the inconsistency.

If anyone knows any better I'd be interested to know.

Happy Dancing
Sue Petyt
Skype - spetyt
www.suepetyt.me.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 02 November 2008 14:06
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: CD information

It wasn't so much the Genre, as the basic titles I was complaining about -
apart from
the inconsistencies with capitalization, there seems to a wide majority who
have put
"THE" and "A" at the beginning, which makes finding the tracks for a
particular dance
much harder.

Similarly, we have variations with the type of dance (R / J / S) appearing
in a
variety of positions, from R 4x32 to 4x32J and even 4J32. (Not counting the
other
variations, such as 4x32 Jig)

I suppose I should be happy that I don't have to type the track titles in,
but it
seems a pity that what could have been a useful tool has become so limited
because of
a lack of consistency.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
> Sent: 02 November 2008 13:21
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: CD information
>
> Malcolm Brown wrote:
>
> > Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided
to
> > use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.
> >
> > Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
> > standard?
>
> >The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.<
> -- Andrew S.
Tanenbaum
>
> Before we agree on a common standard for >genres< we need to agree which
> flavour of MP3 information tags (>ID3<) we want to support. The older
> standard (version 1) is severely limited in what you can do -- it
basically
> gives you artist, album, track name, a >comment< and a single selection
out
> of a fixed set of (fairly arbitrary) >genres<, for a total of at most 128
> bytes of data, but many programs and especially devices (such as
> self-contained MP3 players) only support this. Free-text genres came in
with
> ID3-1.1, but many player programs and devices don't grok them. The newer
> standard (version 2, with several sub-flavours, the current one
> being >ID3v2.4<) is more flexible but not as widely supported. The nice
thing
> about ID3v2.4 is that it allows for application-specific extensions.
>
> For my own >SCDplayer< software, which I hope to release as an open-source
> program in time for Christmas, I have come up with a set of extensions
that
> cover what I need, together with a CD >ripper/tagger< tool that will apply
> appropriate tags to MP3 files based on DanceData. I do have a file with
notes
> on these extensions somewhere, and I suppose I could put it up on the web
for
> interested parties to peruse, although I should say that from the point of
> view of users of self-contained devices most of what is in it will amount
to
> wishful thinking. I would be happy to work with others towards a common
> standard that helps most people.
>
> Anselm
> --
> Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
anselm@strathspey.org
> The scary thing about platforms is that there are always some that seem to
> outsiders to be fine, responsible choices and yet, like Windows in the
90s,
> will destroy you if you choose them. Java applets were probably the most
> spectacular example. -- Paul Graham, >The 18 Mistakes That Kill
Startups<

CD information

Message 54042 · Susan McKinnell · 2 Nov 2008 22:48:26 · Top

At least some of the data in Gracenotes comes from people who own the
CD, enter the data and send it in. I have done so for some CDs I own,
as when I was cataloging them using a program that checks the Gracenotes
database, I was informed the CD was not in the database and offered a
chance to enter the data.
Sue (Chicago - USA)

Sue Petyt wrote:
> I change the Genre to J(8x32) etc and the text is predictive so once you
> have typed one in, it will try to guess what you are going to type, so even
> when you have a lot of J(nx32) most of the time it saves you typing the last
> 2 characters (not much but every little helps!).
>
> As for 'The' & 'A' ITunes ignores these in the sort so they are not a
> problem for me.
>
> I would like to know where the data for the Gracenotes database comes from.
> The CDs we produce appear on the database and we have never submitted any
> information to anything which appears to be such a database. My suspicion
> is that the information must come from the licence details which we fill in
> and send to MCPS (Mechanical Copyright) in which case 'someone' must have
> entered them and this may explain the inconsistency.
>
> If anyone knows any better I'd be interested to know.
>
> Happy Dancing
> Sue Petyt
> Skype - spetyt
> www.suepetyt.me.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
> Sent: 02 November 2008 14:06
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: RE: CD information
>
> It wasn't so much the Genre, as the basic titles I was complaining about -
> apart from
> the inconsistencies with capitalization, there seems to a wide majority who
> have put
> "THE" and "A" at the beginning, which makes finding the tracks for a
> particular dance
> much harder.
>
> Similarly, we have variations with the type of dance (R / J / S) appearing
> in a
> variety of positions, from R 4x32 to 4x32J and even 4J32. (Not counting the
> other
> variations, such as 4x32 Jig)
>
> I suppose I should be happy that I don't have to type the track titles in,
> but it
> seems a pity that what could have been a useful tool has become so limited
> because of
> a lack of consistency.
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> Malcolm L Brown
> York (UK)
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
>> Sent: 02 November 2008 13:21
>> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>> Subject: Re: CD information
>>
>> Malcolm Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided
>>>
> to
>
>>> use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.
>>>
>>> Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
>>> standard?
>>>
>>> The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.<
>>>
>> -- Andrew S.
>>
> Tanenbaum
>
>> Before we agree on a common standard for >genres< we need to agree which
>> flavour of MP3 information tags (>ID3<) we want to support. The older
>> standard (version 1) is severely limited in what you can do -- it
>>
> basically
>
>> gives you artist, album, track name, a >comment< and a single selection
>>
> out
>
>> of a fixed set of (fairly arbitrary) >genres<, for a total of at most 128
>> bytes of data, but many programs and especially devices (such as
>> self-contained MP3 players) only support this. Free-text genres came in
>>
> with
>
>> ID3-1.1, but many player programs and devices don't grok them. The newer
>> standard (version 2, with several sub-flavours, the current one
>> being >ID3v2.4<) is more flexible but not as widely supported. The nice
>>
> thing
>
>> about ID3v2.4 is that it allows for application-specific extensions.
>>
>> For my own >SCDplayer< software, which I hope to release as an open-source
>> program in time for Christmas, I have come up with a set of extensions
>>
> that
>
>> cover what I need, together with a CD >ripper/tagger< tool that will apply
>> appropriate tags to MP3 files based on DanceData. I do have a file with
>>
> notes
>
>> on these extensions somewhere, and I suppose I could put it up on the web
>>
> for
>
>> interested parties to peruse, although I should say that from the point of
>> view of users of self-contained devices most of what is in it will amount
>>
> to
>
>> wishful thinking. I would be happy to work with others towards a common
>> standard that helps most people.
>>
>> Anselm
>> --
>> Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
>>
> anselm@strathspey.org
>
>> The scary thing about platforms is that there are always some that seem to
>> outsiders to be fine, responsible choices and yet, like Windows in the
>>
> 90s,
>
>> will destroy you if you choose them. Java applets were probably the most
>> spectacular example. -- Paul Graham, >The 18 Mistakes That Kill
>>
> Startups<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com

"A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
its title?"
- Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson

CD information

Message 54043 · Brian Charlton · 3 Nov 2008 02:06:41 · Top

G'Day,

Referring to Malcolm's comments, I use WinAmp for managing my music on my
Laptop and use the Genre Field for recording data about type, bars and
repeats (e.g. Reel 8x32). This enables quick finding of a particular type of
music and then selection of the particular music to use. I find the track
timing information useful as to a guide to the tempo of playing, using
pacemaker with WinAmp enables variation of the tempo during playing - I paid
for the enhanced version, which remembers the setting of tempo for a
particular track. The track timing is also a useful check that the Genre
data is correct.

Yes, I quite often have to amend the data received from the internet
database, e.g. changing to lower case and moving 'the' to after the title,
as well as often having to fill in or alter other information.

Anselm's project sounds very useful. I use a Version 2newer version of ID3
tags, which WinAmp has no problem reading and I have a project to put cribs
for dances in the comment field.

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

2008/11/3 Susan McKinnell <luvscd@suedan.com>

> At least some of the data in Gracenotes comes from people who own the CD,
> enter the data and send it in. I have done so for some CDs I own, as when I
> was cataloging them using a program that checks the Gracenotes database, I
> was informed the CD was not in the database and offered a chance to enter
> the data.
> Sue (Chicago - USA)
>
>
> Sue Petyt wrote:
>
>> I change the Genre to J(8x32) etc and the text is predictive so once you
>> have typed one in, it will try to guess what you are going to type, so
>> even
>> when you have a lot of J(nx32) most of the time it saves you typing the
>> last
>> 2 characters (not much but every little helps!).
>>
>> As for 'The' & 'A' ITunes ignores these in the sort so they are not a
>> problem for me.
>>
>> I would like to know where the data for the Gracenotes database comes
>> from.
>> The CDs we produce appear on the database and we have never submitted any
>> information to anything which appears to be such a database. My suspicion
>> is that the information must come from the licence details which we fill
>> in
>> and send to MCPS (Mechanical Copyright) in which case 'someone' must have
>> entered them and this may explain the inconsistency.
>> If anyone knows any better I'd be interested to know.
>>
>> Happy Dancing
>> Sue Petyt
>> Skype - spetyt
>> www.suepetyt.me.uk -----Original Message-----
>> From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com] Sent: 02
>> November 2008 14:06
>> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>> Subject: RE: CD information
>>
>> It wasn't so much the Genre, as the basic titles I was complaining about -
>> apart from
>> the inconsistencies with capitalization, there seems to a wide majority
>> who
>> have put
>> "THE" and "A" at the beginning, which makes finding the tracks for a
>> particular dance
>> much harder.
>>
>> Similarly, we have variations with the type of dance (R / J / S) appearing
>> in a
>> variety of positions, from R 4x32 to 4x32J and even 4J32. (Not counting
>> the
>> other
>> variations, such as 4x32 Jig)
>>
>> I suppose I should be happy that I don't have to type the track titles in,
>> but it
>> seems a pity that what could have been a useful tool has become so limited
>> because of
>> a lack of consistency.
>>
>> Malcolm
>>
>>
>> Malcolm L Brown
>> York (UK)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Anselm Lingnau [mailto:anselm@strathspey.org]
>>> Sent: 02 November 2008 13:21
>>> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>> Subject: Re: CD information
>>>
>>> Malcolm Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to
>>
>>
>>> use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
>>>> standard?
>>>> The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose
>>>> from.<
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -- Andrew S.
>>>
>>>
>> Tanenbaum
>>
>>
>>> Before we agree on a common standard for >genres< we need to agree which
>>> flavour of MP3 information tags (>ID3<) we want to support. The older
>>> standard (version 1) is severely limited in what you can do -- it
>>>
>>>
>> basically
>>
>>
>>> gives you artist, album, track name, a >comment< and a single selection
>>>
>>>
>> out
>>
>>
>>> of a fixed set of (fairly arbitrary) >genres<, for a total of at most 128
>>> bytes of data, but many programs and especially devices (such as
>>> self-contained MP3 players) only support this. Free-text genres came in
>>>
>>>
>> with
>>
>>
>>> ID3-1.1, but many player programs and devices don't grok them. The newer
>>> standard (version 2, with several sub-flavours, the current one
>>> being >ID3v2.4<) is more flexible but not as widely supported. The nice
>>>
>>>
>> thing
>>
>>
>>> about ID3v2.4 is that it allows for application-specific extensions.
>>>
>>> For my own >SCDplayer< software, which I hope to release as an
>>> open-source
>>> program in time for Christmas, I have come up with a set of extensions
>>>
>>>
>> that
>>
>>
>>> cover what I need, together with a CD >ripper/tagger< tool that will
>>> apply
>>> appropriate tags to MP3 files based on DanceData. I do have a file with
>>>
>>>
>> notes
>>
>>
>>> on these extensions somewhere, and I suppose I could put it up on the web
>>>
>>>
>> for
>>
>>
>>> interested parties to peruse, although I should say that from the point
>>> of
>>> view of users of self-contained devices most of what is in it will amount
>>>
>>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>> wishful thinking. I would be happy to work with others towards a common
>>> standard that helps most people.
>>>
>>> Anselm
>>> --
>>> Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany .....................
>>>
>>>
>> anselm@strathspey.org
>>
>>
>>> The scary thing about platforms is that there are always some that seem
>>> to
>>> outsiders to be fine, responsible choices and yet, like Windows in the
>>>
>>>
>> 90s,
>>
>>
>>> will destroy you if you choose them. Java applets were probably the most
>>> spectacular example. -- Paul Graham, >The 18 Mistakes That Kill
>>>
>>>
>> Startups<
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Susan McKinnell luvscd@suedan.com http://suedan.com
>
> "A house without a cat, and a well-fed, well-petted, and properly
> revered cat, may be a perfect house, perhaps, but how can it prove
> its title?"
> - Mark Twain, The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson
>
>

CD information

Message 54026 · Walter Ligon · 2 Nov 2008 18:45:45 · Top

I personally like to use H, J, M, R or S. I additionally use the number
of bars, then the reps giving for example J32x5, or S32x8, etc. This
makes it easier for me to locate suitable music. I do not hesitate to
edit music to fit a need.

Happy dancing,

Walter Ligon, M. D. Marietta, GA (Atlanta, GA.)

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:29 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: CD information

Greetings

I have been busy transferring our CDs to my new mp3 player, and have
been struck by the variety of information and formats that have been
downloaded to the Gracenote database.

Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided
to use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.

Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
standard?

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

CD information

Message 54037 · Pia Walker · 2 Nov 2008 21:25:36 · Top

I also like when CDs have the duration in minutes and secs on it.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Ligon [mailto:wligonmd@bellsouth.net]
Sent: 02 November 2008 17:46
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: CD information

I personally like to use H, J, M, R or S. I additionally use the number
of bars, then the reps giving for example J32x5, or S32x8, etc. This
makes it easier for me to locate suitable music. I do not hesitate to
edit music to fit a need.

Happy dancing,

Walter Ligon, M. D. Marietta, GA (Atlanta, GA.)

-----Original Message-----
From: mlamontbrown [mailto:mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:29 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: CD information

Greetings

I have been busy transferring our CDs to my new mp3 player, and have
been struck by the variety of information and formats that have been
downloaded to the Gracenote database.

Looking at the variety of Genres that have been used has, I have decided
to use this to enter R / J / S or M so that I can at least sort by type.

Does anyone else have any comments on why we didn't agree to a common
standard?

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

CD information

Message 54041 · Iain Boyd · 2 Nov 2008 22:46:18 · Top

<I also like when CDs have the duration in minutes and secs on it.
<
<Pia
Interesting!

I find this formation a complete waste of effort on the part of CD producers and DanceData - particularly as I usually have to adjust the tempo / pitch before playing any particular track for dancing.

Iain Boyd

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404

Wellington

New Zealand

Get the latest headlines with Yahoo!Xtra News - http://nz.news.yahoo.com

CD information

Message 54056 · Steve Wyrick · 3 Nov 2008 17:31:55 · Top

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Iain Boyd <iain_boyd_scd@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
> <I also like when CDs have the duration in minutes and secs on it.
> <
> <Pia
> Interesting!
>
> I find this formation a complete waste of effort on the part of CD producers and DanceData - particularly as I usually have to adjust the tempo / pitch before playing any particular track for dancing.
>
> Iain Boyd

I agree with Pia. This has saved me a couple of times when fiddling
for non-standard dances, not having any recordings, since knowing the
track length and number of bars from Dance Data I've been able to
figure out the tempo that other bands used for the dance. Yeah, I
could probably get that info from the teacher but it's nice to be
prepared...
--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California

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