strathspey Archive: Talking About Curves

HI to all
I was at a dance this Spring where a fellow (not from our immediate area) in our set when dancing a Reel of Three or Four (not sure and I do not think it matters to his style of dancing) Curved towards the oncoming person instead of trying ot pass Left shoulder to Left shoulder.
It was almost a Face to Face pass, but we did pass on the left of each other.
I absolutely loved it and when we did it again I copied his example, and now I am going to take the ball and run with it myself.
It was a nice experience also, sort of like a Half Gypsy that is done in English Country dancing.
Do you know what I speak of???
Cheers
Marie

You bring up an interesting point that I've been thinking a lot about, Marie. We in Austin, TX do a close pass in the center (L shoulder) of a reel of 4, and when you add the close pass with good eye contact, it does become almost face-to-face. If you think about the exact distance traveled on each bar of the reel of 4, it seems to me that the curve needs to be tighter, bringing the passing dancers closer together, in that center pass than on the ends, because of the longer distance to go.

Reels of 3 do not have this issue.

I like the effect, and I think it makes reels flow nicely. It's just important to avoid sidling sideways during the close pass.

Anyone else out there contemplating this?

Kate> From: speym@telus.net> To: strathspey@strathspey.org> Subject: Talking About Curves> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:39:42 -0700> > HI to all> I was at a dance this Spring where a fellow (not from our immediate area) in our set when dancing a Reel of Three or Four (not sure and I do not think it matters to his style of dancing) Curved towards the oncoming person instead of trying ot pass Left shoulder to Left shoulder.> It was almost a Face to Face pass, but we did pass on the left of each other.> I absolutely loved it and when we did it again I copied his example, and now I am going to take the ball and run with it myself.> It was a nice experience also, sort of like a Half Gypsy that is done in English Country dancing.> Do you know what I speak of???> Cheers> Marie > > >
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Eye contact - getting close together ? OH DEAR what is the world coming to -
next you will state that you SMILE TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my days!!!!!

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Walker [mailto:yovimpa@hotmail.com]
Sent: 08 July 2008 06:02
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Talking About Curves - face-to-face pass

You bring up an interesting point that I've been thinking a lot about,
Marie. We in Austin, TX do a close pass in the center (L shoulder) of a
reel of 4, and when you add the close pass with good eye contact, it does
become almost face-to-face. If you think about the exact distance traveled
on each bar of the reel of 4, it seems to me that the curve needs to be
tighter, bringing the passing dancers closer together, in that center pass
than on the ends, because of the longer distance to go.

Reels of 3 do not have this issue.

I like the effect, and I think it makes reels flow nicely. It's just
important to avoid sidling sideways during the close pass.

Anyone else out there contemplating this?

Kate> From: speym@telus.net> To: strathspey@strathspey.org> Subject: Talking
About Curves> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:39:42 -0700> > HI to all> I was at a
dance this Spring where a fellow (not from our immediate area) in our set
when dancing a Reel of Three or Four (not sure and I do not think it matters
to his style of dancing) Curved towards the oncoming person instead of
trying ot pass Left shoulder to Left shoulder.> It was almost a Face to Face
pass, but we did pass on the left of each other.> I absolutely loved it and
when we did it again I copied his example, and now I am going to take the
ball and run with it myself.> It was a nice experience also, sort of like a
Half Gypsy that is done in English Country dancing.> Do you know what I
speak of???> Cheers> Marie > > >
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_Refresh_messenger_video_072008

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18:35

Marie wrote:
> It was a nice experience also, sort of like a Half
> Gypsy that is done in English Country dancing. Do you know
> what I speak of???

Oh, dear, I'm afraid I do. I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but
I've long felt that the Gypsy and Half-Gypsy were overdone in ECD, both in
quantity and quality. They appear so often in place of hand turns,
back-to-back, and cross over that they no longer impart the bit of romantic
spice that once made them delicious figures.

As to quality, I dislike the intense eye contact with which the gypsy is
often executed. Anyone will tell you that I'm a Happy Dancer who smiles and
makes eye contact with my partners; however, I find the gypsy too invasive
for my tastes.

Mind you, I like to dance a passionate gypsy, but I prefer to choose with
whom I do this. I guess I feel that Gypsies and Half-Gypsies are figures
that should be done between Consenting Adults; I lament their having
becoming routine figures.

I do find myself cringing when I see new Scottish dances incorporating these
figures. There's a vagueness about them that seems not in keeping with the
crisp phrasing I like so much in SCD, and there is a sultriness about them
now that seems incompatible with the lightheartedness of country dancing in
general.

Thus spake the curmudgeon.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Hi to all
" SORT OF LIKE A HALF GYPSY"
I do know what you speak of Pat about the "intense eye contact"
I can tell you that in the Vancouver and Seattle area this has almost gone
away thank goodness.
What I speak of is not romantic/passionate either.
It was just a very nice dance experience and whether I dance with Women or
Men it would not matter.
I would say for that brief moment in time we danced as one and I will look
for this again.
Lots of time to try it out at TAC AGM & S/S.
There is "dancing with someone" and then there is "DANCING WITH SOMEONE"
Cheers
Marie
Surrey B.C. Canada

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricia Ruggiero" <ruggierop@earthlink.net>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: Talking About Curves

Marie wrote:
> It was a nice experience also, sort of like a Half
> Gypsy that is done in English Country dancing. Do you know
> what I speak of???

Oh, dear, I'm afraid I do. I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but
I've long felt that the Gypsy and Half-Gypsy were overdone in ECD, both in
quantity and quality. They appear so often in place of hand turns,
back-to-back, and cross over that they no longer impart the bit of romantic
spice that once made them delicious figures.

As to quality, I dislike the intense eye contact with which the gypsy is
often executed. Anyone will tell you that I'm a Happy Dancer who smiles and
makes eye contact with my partners; however, I find the gypsy too invasive
for my tastes.

Mind you, I like to dance a passionate gypsy, but I prefer to choose with
whom I do this. I guess I feel that Gypsies and Half-Gypsies are figures
that should be done between Consenting Adults; I lament their having
becoming routine figures.

I do find myself cringing when I see new Scottish dances incorporating these
figures. There's a vagueness about them that seems not in keeping with the
crisp phrasing I like so much in SCD, and there is a sultriness about them
now that seems incompatible with the lightheartedness of country dancing in
general.

Thus spake the curmudgeon.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

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6:33 AM

>Patricia wrote:

>I've long felt that the Gypsy and Half-Gypsy were overdone in ECD, both in
.quantity and quality.......I do find myself cringing when I see new
Scottish dances incorporating these
>figures. There's a vagueness about them that seems not in keeping with the
>crisp phrasing I like so much in SCD, and there is a sultriness about them
.now that seems incompatible with the lightheartedness of country dancing in
>general.

Here in Cape Town we don't experience any other dance form. ECD, Contra
Dancing, Ladies Step, Ceilidh dancing and Old Tyme are all foreign to us.
Irish is the only other dancing that we come across, quite a threat to
Highland here. So Gypsy etc means nothing to me. Pat says that new SCDs
are incorporating them. Are they called something different in SCD? Can
you give me an example of SCD dances containing these figures?

And on a broader note, does anyone think that we are heading towards BCD
(British Country Dancing)? As is happening in so many other endeavours of
life, do you think we shall all eventually migrate to one uniform grey
monotone? Or will SCD always be different, going its own way and not
absorbing or being absorbed?

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

PS I now have to consciously "reply all" to ensure my contribution goes to
everyone. In the previous version I just replied and it automatically came
up with strathspey. Is this a feature or a bug? Is it common to others?

Campbell Tyler wrote:

> So Gypsy etc means nothing to me. Pat says that new SCDs
> are incorporating them. Are they called something different in SCD? Can
> you give me an example of SCD dances containing these figures?

Gypsy turns are turns without hands, but with eyes. This can be great when
you're dancing with that very special person, but the formation does tempt
people to stare, and, as Pat already mentioned, many people do not especially
enjoy being ogled by the »wrong« person for seconds at a time. (This sort-of
begs the question of whether there isn't the same problem in turns *with*
hands; the answer to that is probably that, in a »handed« turn, you can allow
yourself to look elsewhere every so often -- e.g., to check your covering --,
while in the gypsy turn the eyes are what basically holds the turn together,
so looking away is that much more difficult.) Hence, gypsy turns are viewed
with a certain reservation in some circles. In principle, eye contact is one
of the important »flavour-giving ingredients« in SCD, but like all spices it
is best used in moderation.

On the other hand, it's not as if gypsy turns are about to take the SCD world
by storm. They are a bit of a novelty these days, but I think that on the
whole we enjoy giving hands so much that we'll be unlikely to do away with
regular turns anytime soon. Give me the final four bars of »Up in the Air«
and you can have all the gypsy turns I've stashed at the back of my
wardrobe :^) (I suppose that in a pinch I could always move to
Charlottesville and dance with Pat.)

> And on a broader note, does anyone think that we are heading towards BCD
> (British Country Dancing)? As is happening in so many other endeavours of
> life, do you think we shall all eventually migrate to one uniform grey
> monotone? Or will SCD always be different, going its own way and not
> absorbing or being absorbed?

We do absorb ideas from elsewhere but not all of them really catch on (which
is probably a good thing). It is important to try new things to see if they
are any good. However, »BCD« could only develop if SCD and ECD were actually
heading toward a middle ground, which I don't see happening (not that I'm any
kind of expert on ECD). IMHO, by now the two forms have diverged enough that
any attempt to fuse them would presumably lead to a third, new form, to the
very vocal dissent of many people who enjoy their SCD *or* ECD just the way
it is, thank you very much.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Friedberg, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Using MS-Word is like smoking; emailing those files is like blowing smoke into
other people's faces. -- Jeff Goldberg, paraphrasing Juhapekka Tolvanen

Anselm wrote:

> Give me the final four bars of >Up in the Air<
> and you can have all the gypsy turns I've stashed at the back of my
> wardrobe

OOOOH, I get chills just thinking about it. I've always considered the
2-hand turn to be a most romantic figure, in both ECD and in strathspeys.
Especially in strathspeys....

And they're quite different depending on whether the turn is once or
one-and-a-half. Once round can be languid and idyllic. Once-and-a-half is
exciting because of the contrast between the tension in the first part of
the turn (getting all the way round in 2 bars) and then the release of
dancing slowly back to the setlines.

> (I suppose that in a pinch I could always move to Charlottesville and
dance with Pat.)

You're on! And the first dance we do will be "Up in the Air."

> However, >BCD< could only develop if SCD and ECD were actually
> heading toward a middle ground, which I don't see happening

I agree. See the last part of my other post.

Pat

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Campbell Tyler <campbell@tyler.co.za> wrote:
Can
> you give me an example of SCD dances containing these figures?
>

"Gypsy Dreams" (Terry Glasspool, An Itch to Dance--also instructions
here: http://home.stny.rr.com/glasshall/GypsyDreams.html ) is my
favorite. It has been showing up in a bunch of local dances here but
I don't know if any of them are published. -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick -- Walnut Creek, California

Campbell wrote:
> Gypsy etc means nothing to me. Pat says that new SCDs are
> incorporating them. Are they called something different in
> SCD?

The term "gypsy" is not used in SCD; rather, the track of the figure is
described. Usually the instructions say something like: "dance around your
partner by the right shoulder."

> Can you give me an example of SCD dances containing
these figures?

"Gypsy Weaver," by Denise Peet, begins thus:
Bars 1-2: First cpl and third cpl dance R shoulder 3/4 of the way around
partners to finish in a line of four up and down the center of the dance.
Bars 3-6: First cpl and third cpl dance a half reel of four up and down the
center of the dance.
Bars 7-8: First and third cpl dance R shoulder 3/4 of the way around partner
to finish on own sides, order 3-2-1.

That "dance R shoulder 3/4" is a 3/4 gypsy.

"Oh My America," by Betty Lee Barnes. Square set. Midway through the dance
there are two gypsies, described as dancing left shoulder around your corner
(4 bars), then right shoulder around your partner (4 bars). (Opinion here:
The dance opens with partners turning R hand for 4 bars, then corners
turning L hand for 4 bars. I find the hand turns much more satisfying than
the later "handless" turns.)

There is at least one modern dance where 1st cpl does something with 1st
corners, ending still facing them; then 1st cpl pulls back R shoulder to
dance around each other and end facing 2nd corners. Some people dance simply
and cheerfully backwards around each other; others see it as a "back gypsy"
and make something quite sultry out of it. I'm sorry I can't remember the
name of this dance; perhaps someone else can supply it.

> And on a broader note, does anyone think that we are heading towards BCD
(British Country Dancing)?

No.

I can't speak for the entire U.S., but where I dance in the mid-Atlantic
(east coast) area, SCD, ECD, and contra are distinct styles with their own,
*very distinctive*, cultures and adherents. There is very little crossover.

> Or will SCD always be different, going its own way and not absorbing or
being absorbed?

That's my fervent hope.

Happy handing to you,
Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

> Campbell Tyler
> Cape Town
>
> PS I now have to consciously "reply all" to ensure my contribution goes to
> everyone. In the previous version I just replied and it automatically came
> up with strathspey. Is this a feature or a bug? Is it common to others?

I've just found the same "feature" with my system - I hit "reply" to comment on
something Pat had written, and found it was only sent to her.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)