strathspey Archive: Programme makeup

Jerry Reinstein wrote:
| A spread sheet of the collated answers you received from this posting would
| indeed be interesting. Here are the answers for an affiliated group in
| Chiswick, London and for the Paris Branch:

This does remind me: I've seen an occasional list of the dances done
over a year or so in various areas, ordered by number of times each
dance was done. I haven't seen one of these in about two years. Has
anyone been collecting this data lately?

Such lists can be useful for letting leaders of groups know what
dances are "all the rage" at the moment. One of the useful things
about the RSCDS dances is that they are fairly consistent everywhere
in the world, which is nice for travellers. Keeping people aware of
what dances are being done elsewhere adds to this.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

We have put our branch programmes on the web since 1999 and publish the
count of the dances used, either in total or by year so people can see
what comes in and out of fashion.

http://www.rscdsleeds.org.uk/Popular.asp

Best Wishes

Christine

Christine Parker-Jones
Leeds Branch RSCDS
5, Larchwood
Woodlands Drive
Leeds
LS19 6JZ
Tel: 0113 250 8734

www.rscdsleeds.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-c.h.parker-jones=leeds.ac.uk@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-c.h.parker-jones=leeds.ac.uk@strathspey.org]
On Behalf Of John Chambers
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:33 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org; SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Programme makeup

Jerry Reinstein wrote:
| A spread sheet of the collated answers you received from this posting
would
| indeed be interesting. Here are the answers for an affiliated group in
| Chiswick, London and for the Paris Branch:

This does remind me: I've seen an occasional list of the dances done
over a year or so in various areas, ordered by number of times each
dance was done. I haven't seen one of these in about two years. Has
anyone been collecting this data lately?

Such lists can be useful for letting leaders of groups know what
dances are "all the rage" at the moment. One of the useful things
about the RSCDS dances is that they are fairly consistent everywhere
in the world, which is nice for travellers. Keeping people aware of
what dances are being done elsewhere adds to this.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

It was Diana Shipton of Houston who used to collate all the programmes
sent to her to produce lists but I haven't seen any for a year or so. Well,
maybe a few years - doesn't time fly when ... etc.
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Ron wrote:
> It was Diana Shipton of Houston who used to collate all
> the programmes
> sent to her to produce lists but I haven't seen any for a
> year or so. Well,
> maybe a few years - doesn't time fly when ... etc.

Strangely enough, I corresponded with Diana in the last fortnight about her
list asking her if she was keeping it up to date. She says she no longer
has time. I was considering taking over the job, because I find it such a
useful resource, especially for those of us who don't have access to other
clubs' dances. Would people be interested and Anselm, would you host it on
Strathspey if I did it? I would need people to send me their dance
programmes because I wouldn't have the time to surf the net for programmes
as I think Diana did at one stage.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Hi Campbell,

> I was considering taking over the job, because I
> find it such a
> useful resource, especially for those of us who don't have
> access to other
> clubs' dances. Would people be interested and Anselm, would
> you host it on
> Strathspey if I did it? I would need people to send me their dance
> programmes because I wouldn't have the time to surf the net
> for programmes
> as I think Diana did at one stage.

I hosted Dianna's list on Grand Chain - you can still find the latest
update at http://www.scottishdance.net/scd/balldances/tabulation.html
(from
May 2000).

I'll send you the format she used privately - I've got a script which
runs
off this to generate the listing.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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Hi everyone,

Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
listings just yet please.

I would appreciate some suggestions as to what I capture. At present my
thoughts are that people give me the following information per event:
1 Name of organising body
2 Name of town, state/county/province and country in which the event was
held
3 Date of event
4 Number of people attending the event (as accurately as possible, but
estimate is okay)
5 Name of each dance on the programme

If I get all this information, then I can do a number of things, for
instance:
A Dances that have appeared most often on all events for which I have
information
B Dances that have appeared most often in a particular country, continent,
state, whatever
C Dances that are currently most popular*
D Top 20 strathspeys etc etc
E Comparisons between countries, continents, states, whatever

* "Popular" would be defined a bit like the rankings for golfers or tennis
players. In other words dances from current events would be allocated more
points than dances appearing on older events, and would also be weighted by
number of people attending the event. This would give a dynamic listing
showing how trends are moving as the months pass and give more importance to
major balls and less importance to social dances attended by just 20 people.
This would give different information to a historic tally of how often the
dances have appeared on programmes (as in A and B above).

Any thoughts? Further suggestions? I aim to kick off on 1 January 2008.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Hi all,

Loking at the discussion about make-up of ball/dance programmes
I think there is one aspect missing. Much of what we put on programmes
varies because of the very situation we are in for the groups we dance at.
I have danced all round the world, and have see I think the following
pattern.

At places like Wellington where I dance, there are many groups
and we have dances often, every 1-2-3 weeks for major dances, 4 hours
with about 18-20 dances. In that situation, the tendency is to include
many and mainly well-known (and likely rscds, Cosh, perhaps early
Drewry dances) to achieve some sort of continuity from one
dance to the next and to make them more social occasions. Groups
cannot, for instance, teach 18 complicated dances easily in two weeks
and it would be silly to anyway, and kind of anti-social.

My guess is that the above is also true in Scotland, but I cannot comment.

Other places I have danced, Singapore, Ithaca etc, ``The'' dance
is ``the'' social occasion that happens once a year, and
though groups such as Binghampton, Syracuse etc ``near'', say, Ithaca
all support each others dance, it seems that much time is
devoted to ``the'' dance and this forms a real basis for the
teaching programme for much of the year, so a programme can be much more
eclectic and complicated. In any case the dancers likely only need
to cope with a small number of formals a year, instead of 18+, not
counting smaller 2 hour ``tartan nights'' which occur all the time in
Wellington.
Here a couple of quite new dances is fine, but a whole programme
full of them is silly and nobody comes. After all the whole point is to
have a really fun night.

Thus I don't think there is any real formula we can apply to dances,
and their make-up. It depends on for whom and for what purpose the
dance is. Also with live musicians sometimes the choice of
programmes is determined by the range of the musicians.

However, I think round the world there seems a tendency to
have more complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
and not too vigorous,
as opposed to ones needing lots of technique, or very
vigorous dances.

thoughts

rod downey

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Campbell Tyler wrote:

> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:23:03 +0200
> From: Campbell Tyler <campbell@tyler.co.za>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: 'SCD news and discussion' <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: RE: Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
> popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
> Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
> listings just yet please.
>
> I would appreciate some suggestions as to what I capture. At present my
> thoughts are that people give me the following information per event:
> 1 Name of organising body
> 2 Name of town, state/county/province and country in which the event was
> held
> 3 Date of event
> 4 Number of people attending the event (as accurately as possible, but
> estimate is okay)
> 5 Name of each dance on the programme
>
> If I get all this information, then I can do a number of things, for
> instance:
> A Dances that have appeared most often on all events for which I have
> information
> B Dances that have appeared most often in a particular country, continent,
> state, whatever
> C Dances that are currently most popular*
> D Top 20 strathspeys etc etc
> E Comparisons between countries, continents, states, whatever
>
> * "Popular" would be defined a bit like the rankings for golfers or tennis
> players. In other words dances from current events would be allocated more
> points than dances appearing on older events, and would also be weighted by
> number of people attending the event. This would give a dynamic listing
> showing how trends are moving as the months pass and give more importance to
> major balls and less importance to social dances attended by just 20 people.
> This would give different information to a historic tally of how often the
> dances have appeared on programmes (as in A and B above).
>
> Any thoughts? Further suggestions? I aim to kick off on 1 January 2008.
>
> Campbell Tyler
> Cape Town
>
>

Greetings!

Rod Downey suggests there are two different types of programmes. I do not quibble with his analysis. The fact that The Maharajah of Hackney's Pilgrimage to Auchtermuchty has only appeared on one dance/ball programme is not information that particularly interests me and I will not be rushing to find a copy of the instructions. However, if a dance which is new to me appears a reasonable number of times in fairly disparate locations, it would prompt me to investigate it.

I am on record as saying that too many dances are written but that does not mean that new gems are not welcome and I look forward to the renewal of the listing by Campbell to whom many thanks for the offer.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Healy" <jimhealy@hotmail.com>

Greetings!

I am on record as saying that too many dances are written but that does not
mean that new gems are not welcome and I look forward to the renewal of the
listing by Campbell to whom many thanks for the offer.

Jim

On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they enjoy
doing it.
Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Ron Mackey wrote:

> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
> enjoy doing it.

Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:

- To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.

- To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.

- To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
to light from the mud every so often.

I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
head.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
I believe the lack of security in Microsoft software was a deliberate business
decision. -- Robert X. Cringely, »The Death of TCP/IP«

To Anselm's list I would add:

- To satisfy a creative urge on the part of the deviser

- To create an outlet for those who get part of their enjoyment of SCD from
the process of figuring out and mastering something unfamiliar.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

On 10/12/07, Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org> wrote:
>
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple
> hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the
> previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to
> mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the
> idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn
> Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a
> good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what
> one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction
> of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the
> trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the
> global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does
> not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new
> dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will
> come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
>
>

--
*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com Google, but
warm-blooded"
*****************************

There's also:

- To impress others in demonstrations, either in competition with other SCD,
to show off skill in a display or attract newcomers at a public event.

- To achieve a goal in teaching by having a specific dance to teach or
emphasise a specific point.

Cheers.

James
Preston, UK

Can I add a kind of "backward" reason to Anselm and Lara's lists?

I have found that since I started trying to write dances I look
differently at the dances we dance week by week. I like to think of ways
that existing dances could be tweaked, or changed radically, to make
them more interesting and enjoyable - at least for me. Up against the
great classics such as Bratach Bana and Belle of Bon Accord and
Polharrow Burn etc., I clearly don't make any headway but it does
increase my admiration for the craftsmanship/artistry of the original
writer. So I get more out of these dances than I did before.

I think this may be just a variant on the "pushing the envelope" reason.
As Lara says, it satisfies my creative urge to go on writing yet more
dances and I get more out of my dancing by doing so.

Regards

Bob
Oxfordshire, England

Anselm Lingnau wrote:
> Ron Mackey wrote:
>
>
>> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
>> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
>> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
>> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
>> enjoy doing it.
>>
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
> I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
> head.
>
> Anselm
>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Bob McLatchie wrote:

> Can I add a kind of "backward" reason to Anselm and Lara's lists?
>
> I have found that since I started trying to write dances I look differently
> at the dances we dance week by week. I like to think of ways that existing
> dances could be tweaked, or changed radically, to make them more interesting
> and enjoyable - at least for me. Up against the great classics such as
> Bratach Bana and Belle of Bon Accord and Polharrow Burn etc., I clearly don't
> make any headway but it does increase my admiration for the
> craftsmanship/artistry of the original writer. So I get more out of these
> dances than I did before.

Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn, writing dances is
another way to improving ones understanding of existing dances ?

Andrew wrote:

> Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn,
> writing dances is another way to improving ones understanding of existing
dances ?

I agree. I started out in ECD, where phrasing isn't explained. By trying
my hand at writing dances (which, fortunately, still lie buried in my
folder), I learned the relationship of figures to bars of music. I also
discovered how figures can be combined to make a logical dance, and how they
can't or shouldn't. All told, the exercise gave me an understanding of
dance structure and phrasing.

I can say that "cross and cast" in two bars is NOT a good idea. And I
recall one dance I wrote, a longways triple minor, that had the 2d cpl
"captured" in some way (I forget how) by the 1st cpl such that the poor 2s
stayed with those 1s and never became 1s, no matter if they danced from now
till doomsday....

Pat (who is a much better gardener than dance devisor)
Charlottesville, Virginia USA

>
> Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn, writing dances is
> another way to improving ones understanding of existing dances ?
>

Oh, but definately. The number of times one has a great idea but it
only fills the middle 16. The hard part is getting into position in the
first eight and finishing in a better way than 'now get out of that'!

There used to be (is) a 20s song that went something like
If you want to write a song
********
here's a way you can't go wrong
*****
first you get the inspiration
- that's not hard to find -
all the rest is perspiration
as you write each line!

Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
head.

Anselm

Off the top of a very fine head, I might add.
Your words and wisdom are always well received, Anselm.

Simon
Vancouver

same question: why have new music? why have new songs etc.

but another reason for my own devising of dances in the last years
has been for teaching. If we stuck with the trad RSCDS ones there are
not too many good dances for beginners I think (Beware the children's
book) whereas there are a reasonable number of nice beginner
dances written
late 20th century and early 21st such as those by Iain Boyd
and Bob McMurtry etc. What I am thinking of here is a dance where
we are trying to teach a particular formation, say, and want no
other problems to interfere with that point.

Also think of the lovely new formations which have come in some modern
dances such as the espanol, corners pass and turn etc.

best

rod

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Anselm Lingnau wrote:

> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:10:54 +0200
> From: Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Why write new dances? (was: Popular dance list)
>
> Ron Mackey wrote:
>
>> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
>> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
>> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
>> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
>> enjoy doing it.
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
> I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
> head.
>
> Anselm
> --
> Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
> I believe the lack of security in Microsoft software was a deliberate business
> decision. -- Robert X. Cringely, »The Death of TCP/IP«
>

whereas there are a reasonable number of nice beginner
dances written
late 20th century and early 21st such as those by Iain Boyd
and Bob McMurtry etc. What I am thinking of here is a dance where
we are trying to teach a particular formation, say, and want no
other problems to interfere with that point.

and Roy Goldring, Alex Hay, Dorothy Bell etc. etc.
The books of dances you need are out there. It's just a question of reading
through them and sorting them out. Maybe for something on the lines of
DanceData but with a grading of each dance and the overall book. Anyone
just retired with time to spare - - oh, sorry, everyone who has retired is
too busy! :)

Incidentally, DanceData can give quite a good idea of the grade of a
dance if you read between the symbols. - sort of ....
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Nobody has mentioned yet that necessity is sometimes the reason. I've found
that it works best with the elementary grades if the 'new' formation is
danced at the very start of the Dance. Then too, the progression in the
dance has to work equally well for 3, 4, or 5 pair sets. I have long ago
given up going through the 12,000 or so dances already in print to look for
enough dances to fit my requirements. Easier to make one up!
And for our adult group we need Dances for Burn's night demo's that our 'all
levels' class can do. I like a medley to knock off the strathspey and
reel/jig, which then only leaves one more to do. There are not a lot of
suitable medleys thus make up another one.

Jack in Beautiful British Columbia

That is a nice list, Anselm. Must dig out a few and try them again.Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Anselm wrote:
| - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
| other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
| list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
| upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
| take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
| and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
| to light from the mud every so often.

It's likely that the guys who wrote Mairi's Wedding (the song or the
dance) didn't expect that they would catch on like they did, or that
mass-media publications would have articles about them when Mary had
her 90th birthday a decade or so ago.

You never know what will catch people's fancy.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Le 10 oct. 07 à 22h43, Rod Downey a écrit :

> I think round the world there seems a tendency to
> have
(a)
> complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
> and not too vigorous,

(b)
> ones needing lots of technique,

(c)
> very vigorous dances.

I cannot understand this manner of classifying SCDs (excluding
Highland dances)

I would have thought complexity required greater precision in
phrasing, not less.

I cannot see why one dance needs more technique than another, unless
it has awkward moves & changes of direction.

For me, a dance is not vigorous, though an individual's style of
dancing may be -- or may not.

A dance such as "Pines pf Pitlochry" (8x48) may be tiring, as there
is a lot of setting & not much rest to get your breath back, but the
young and athletic could perform it vigorously -- or not, depending
how they feel at that point. The elderly, may not have that choice,
of course.

We could say, certain tiring dances should be kept to a minimum on
social programs.
I hope no-one ever says, vigorous dancing should be kept to a minimum!!!

I have probably misunderstood Rod's meaning.

Martin

My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
scratch.

not sure how i got on this mailing list. I believe my e-mail account was
hacked. I don't know who to ask, but is thre any way to be removed from this
mailing list.
Thanks,
Sarah Wolfe

On 10/16/07, GOSS9@telefonica.net <GOSS9@telefonica.net> wrote:
>
> My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
> number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
> complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
> know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
> others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
> scratch.
>
>
>

Hi Martin,

I am sorry I was a bit unclear. It seems to me that the hallmark
of most dances we see on programmes are that they are ``flowing''
To my mind being ``complicated'' does not often need much technique.
Examples The Bees of Maggieknockater, Ian Powrie's Farewell to
Auchterarder, Kilkenny Castle, etc. They are great fun and certainly
require a good sense of geography, but personally I think that
they need almost no phrasing and no anticipation of direction
changes. This is true of many of the easier ``flowing'' dances
of the modern era along the lines of Mairi's Wedding (incidentally that's
why I think people like the R shoulder rather than
the left as they have trouble controlling their steps, but
please don't start that one again) or A trip to Bavaria or many of Roy
Goldring's dances. They are all fun and certainly
very social but to me they are
often what I
think of as ``track dances''. Remember the track and stick to it.
They are all nice on programmes but I get a bit bored dancing
this kind of dance all the time, but I think they have become the norm.
I like to try to put one or two that perhaps need a little more
dancing to be able to do them.

Many old dances which I love require what I think of as technique.
Anticipatory phrasing and intersting linkages. Examples Peggy's Love,
Up in the Air, The Bawk, Fairly Shot o' Her, Fraser's Favourite,
maybe The Gates of Edinburgh, or enev a ``simple'' dance like
The Braes of Breadalbane, or more
difficult ones like The Seagull or Bob Sanders
the last which are technique dances, only for classes,
and rightfully so.
But it is
fun to challenge yourself with technique.

I also believe that with people aging that there has been a tendency
to have fewer vigorous dances on programmes, Hamilton Rant, Petronella,
anything with Hello and Goodbye setting.

Maybe mostly what really matters is having really good music.

Anyway it would be a boring world if we all liked the same things.

best

rod

PS all that said and done, when I write dances myself
I try to make them more flowing I guess.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Martin Sheffield wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:00:58 +0200
> From: Martin Sheffield <mj.sheffield@orange.fr>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Classification (was: Popular dance list)
>
>
> Le 10 oct. 07 à 22h43, Rod Downey a écrit :
>
>> I think round the world there seems a tendency to
>> have
> (a)
>> complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
>> and not too vigorous,
>
> (b)
>> ones needing lots of technique,
>
> (c)
>> very vigorous dances.
>
> I cannot understand this manner of classifying SCDs (excluding Highland
> dances)
>
> I would have thought complexity required greater precision in phrasing, not
> less.
>
> I cannot see why one dance needs more technique than another, unless it has
> awkward moves & changes of direction.
>
> For me, a dance is not vigorous, though an individual's style of dancing may
> be -- or may not.
>
> A dance such as "Pines pf Pitlochry" (8x48) may be tiring, as there is a lot
> of setting & not much rest to get your breath back, but the young and
> athletic could perform it vigorously -- or not, depending how they feel at
> that point. The elderly, may not have that choice, of course.
>
> We could say, certain tiring dances should be kept to a minimum on social
> programs.
> I hope no-one ever says, vigorous dancing should be kept to a minimum!!!
>
> I have probably misunderstood Rod's meaning.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well the Kelpie is a 14-point dance and off your scale!

Andrew

-----
Andrew Buxton
Lewes, East Sussex, UK

----- Original Message ----
From: "GOSS9@telefonica.net" <GOSS9@telefonica.net>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October, 2007 4:23:41 PM
Subject: Re: Classification (was: Popular dance list)

My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
scratch.

___________________________________________________________
Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html

Hi, Campbell

What I used to do with Diana was to send scans of the dance programmes
as published in The Reel and the Croydon Branch Newsletter and she put it
all in her list.
Would this still do for you?

Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Thank you for doing this!

The Sarna's from Michigan

On 10/10/07 11:23 AM, "Campbell Tyler" <campbell@tyler.co.za> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
> popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
> Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
> listings just yet please.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.

I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.

Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
(and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
dances.

But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.

the old curmudgeon
aka Bruce Herbold
San Francisco
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

--
Bruce Herbold

Bruce wrote:
> Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
> the old curmudgeon

From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/

General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
groups.

The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
typical for this region.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:

http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm

You'll find a quicktime pousette, set to & turn corners/reels of three, double triangles, and an allemande, all by specific intent. No set to corners and partner this time, darn it all. Can't get all the oldies-but-goodies in the same program, but we do try to get a good selection of them.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Apr 7, 2010 4:00 PM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: RE: Frequent dances update
>
>Bruce wrote:
>> Look at current programs --
>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>
>> the old curmudgeon
>
>
>From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>
>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>groups.
>
>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
>typical for this region.
>
>Pat
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>USA
>

and to your north, the Canadian programs contain a variety of figures,
but scan programs from around the world (many that have been posted
here) and it is often a stew of half reels of three and four every
which way, with the occasional allemand or rights and lefts thrown in
as a sop to the beginners.

Fun to see that in Japan the favorite dance is that most traditional
Scottish tune and dance -- Deil amang the Tailors.

I live in hope that by preaching to the choir loudly enough I'll
change the path of the rest of the world.

Bruce Herbold
San Francisco

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Lee Fuell <fuell@mindspring.com> wrote:
> This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:
>
> http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm
>
> You'll find a quicktime pousette, set to & turn corners/reels of three, double triangles, and an allemande, all by specific intent.  No set to corners and partner this time, darn it all.  Can't get all the oldies-but-goodies in the same program, but we do try to get a good selection of them.
>
> Lee
>
> Beavercreek, OH, USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>
>>Sent: Apr 7, 2010 4:00 PM
>>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>Subject: RE: Frequent dances update
>>
>>Bruce wrote:
>>> Look at current programs --
>>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>>
>>> the old curmudgeon
>>
>>
> >From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>>
>>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie.  All of these appear regularly on programs in
>>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>>groups.
>>
>>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>>Plenty of PdB throughout.  In short, the programs for this weekend are
>>typical for this region.
>>
>>Pat
>>Charlottesville, Virginia
>>USA
>>
>
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Bruce wrote:

> I live in hope that by preaching to the choir loudly enough I'll
> change the path of the rest of the world.

This curmudgeon has only one response to that: !!!!!!!

Pat

Lee wrote,

> This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on
> board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in
> Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the
> USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:
>
> http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm

Same day as our Lake Sherando party and picnic. http://mhscd.avenue.org/Sherando_10_brochure1.htm

And Monymusk is on the program....played by Liz Donaldson and David Knight, it will be nigh unto perfect!

(Are you and Patty coming east for Capital Weekend?)

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Sorry all,

one last thought on this topic.

One factor which has not been discussed here is how the spread of SCD
throughout the world might have affected things. By this I mean
that here in wellington, for instance, we are blessed by having many
groups. The effect of this would be that when a tutor is devising a
programme they will be aware that there are likely many dancers coming
to the dance who don't dance at the local group. Moreover there will
be many dances occurring that year in wellington. (maybe 10+).
I would argue that this would tend to make one pretty conservative about
what to include, and that such is likely to happen at any place
where lots of local dances occur. Surely this is what happened in
the 50's, say. (Here the teachers got together and agreed
on a list of dances most of the program should include for this reason.)

Now I have also danced in lots of places in, e.g. the midwest, uspate New
York, which are quite isolated.
In such places, the Ball is really a big deal and the local group puts
a huge amount of effort and practice into the dances, but they are
definitely more for themselves. They are, of course, well supported by
the other isolated groups who travel as best as they can, but this would
surely make the dance more slanted to the local group, and their own
favourites.

Maybe this does not account for the lack of hello-goodbye but might
explain why more complex dances might be chosen.

One other thing. I hear all this stuff about how now we are all so
enfeebled that set to and turn corners seems impossible.
I looked that the programmes here from the 60's and they were very
energetic (Hamilton House etc) with 25-30 dances (!) in a night.
What did the old people do then? Were there none? Or is the claim
that this is a greedy generation thing: that is in those days the
weight of dancers were young and they all wanted petronella till you drop,
and now the weight are old so that they all want to dance only skip
change. I don't know. I was not there in the 60's but there sure seem
to be old people in the photos. Were they only there for the tea?

best

rod

Rod asked:
>

> I looked that the programmes here from the 60's and they were very
> energetic (Hamilton House etc) with 25-30 dances (!) in a night.

I was there in the 60s, and the other dancers seemed to be quite old -- to
me, in my late teens. I think in fact my own parents in their 40s were
typical at that time.

Perhaps the key word is one that Rod used:
Weight.
People were normally slim and used to using their own two feet in those
days, thus had little difficulty in getting through a good range of dances
in an evening, including all those old dances with a poussettte?

Martin

Hello, all. I'd also add that there is a similar pattern for the Midwest
Weekend Workshop programs
(<http://sites.google.com/site/midwestscottishweekend/>http://sites.google.com/site/midwestscottishweekend/),
organized jointly by dancers from Chicago, Madison, WI and Milwaukee, WI
for early June. Noel Chavez, Chicago
.
At 03:00 PM 4/7/2010, you wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
> > Look at current programs --
> > away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> > programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
> >
> > the old curmudgeon
>
>
> >From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>
>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>groups.
>
>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
>typical for this region.
>
>Pat
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>USA

Hi Bruce,

I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
arena (formations) from data which is collected about another
(formations).
This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.

My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
Same Gait for set and link for 3.

It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
the don't make the ``top 50''.
Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
triangles.

Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
patterns not found in other dances.

The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?

I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
about other things without more data.

best

rod downey

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Frequent dances update
>
> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>
> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
> with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>
> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
> participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
> popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
> dances.
>
> But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
> the old curmudgeon
> aka Bruce Herbold
> San Francisco
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

I agree that with the multitude of pousette dances out there they
could be cycled through and never make the top 50. It *could* be so,
but it isn't. Campbell's list prompted me to look at actual programs
out there, and many many many programs are lacking the standard
figures I mentioned -- not just the list of 50 most popular dances.
Conversely, there is no shortage of rights and lefts Hooper's Jig,
Machine without Horse and Wild Geese are all on the top 50 list even
though they are probably seldom on the same program. Likewise the top
50 list contains multiple allemands in both Strathspey and fast time.

I invite you to scan programs and verify for yourself the
disappearance of many of the trad figures of SCD. Even RSCDS Summer
School -- with a different assortment of RSCDS dances each night did
only one pousette in an entire week of dancing last summer, no double
triangles, no hello/goodbye and one strathspey set and turn corners.

still concerned and curmudgeonly,
Bruce Herbold
San Francisco

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Rod Downey <Rod.Downey@msor.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
> arena (formations) from data which is collected about another (formations).
> This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.
>
> My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
> corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
> Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
> then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
> Same Gait for set and link for 3.
>
> It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
> with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
> the don't make the ``top 50''.
> Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
> triangles.
>
>
> Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
> basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
> choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
> The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
> patterns not found in other dances.
>
> The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
> towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
> flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
> repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
> Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
> so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
> that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?
>
> I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
> about other things without more data.
>
>
>
> best
>
> rod downey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
>> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>> Subject: Frequent dances update
>>
>> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
>> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
>> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>>
>> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
>> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs.  With the
>> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
>> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50.  We continue to have no dance
>> with fast time pousettes or double triangles.  And Duke of Perth is
>> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>>
>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
>> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
>> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
>> participation by more youth now?  Petronella is far and way the most
>> popular dance in our SF youth groups).  But H&G and S&T both occur in
>> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
>> dances.
>>
>> But it isn't just the 50 most popular.  Look at current programs --
>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>
>> the old curmudgeon
>> aka Bruce Herbold
>> San Francisco
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Hi Bruce,

I have not seen the actual dances in his database. It would
certainly not be the case in New Zealand.
For example below is the link
to the events in wellington and you can see from the programmes
lots of standard formations

http://rscds.wellington.net.nz/short/events.htm

whatever happened to the ``big grid'' where you ee if formations are
included, and not too many circles etc.

best

rod

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 16:37:07 -0700
> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: Frequent dances update
>
> I agree that with the multitude of pousette dances out there they
> could be cycled through and never make the top 50. It *could* be so,
> but it isn't. Campbell's list prompted me to look at actual programs
> out there, and many many many programs are lacking the standard
> figures I mentioned -- not just the list of 50 most popular dances.
> Conversely, there is no shortage of rights and lefts Hooper's Jig,
> Machine without Horse and Wild Geese are all on the top 50 list even
> though they are probably seldom on the same program. Likewise the top
> 50 list contains multiple allemands in both Strathspey and fast time.
>
> I invite you to scan programs and verify for yourself the
> disappearance of many of the trad figures of SCD. Even RSCDS Summer
> School -- with a different assortment of RSCDS dances each night did
> only one pousette in an entire week of dancing last summer, no double
> triangles, no hello/goodbye and one strathspey set and turn corners.
>
> still concerned and curmudgeonly,
> Bruce Herbold
> San Francisco
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Rod Downey <Rod.Downey@msor.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
>> arena (formations) from data which is collected about another (formations).
>> This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.
>>
>> My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
>> corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
>> Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
>> then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
>> Same Gait for set and link for 3.
>>
>> It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
>> with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
>> the don't make the ``top 50''.
>> Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
>> triangles.
>>
>>
>> Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
>> basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
>> choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
>> The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
>> patterns not found in other dances.
>>
>> The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
>> towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
>> flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
>> repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
>> Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
>> so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
>> that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?
>>
>> I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
>> about other things without more data.
>>
>>
>>
>> best
>>
>> rod downey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
>>> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>>> Subject: Frequent dances update
>>>
>>> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
>>> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
>>> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>>>
>>> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
>>> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs.  With the
>>> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
>>> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50.  We continue to have no dance
>>> with fast time pousettes or double triangles.  And Duke of Perth is
>>> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>>>
>>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
>>> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
>>> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
>>> participation by more youth now?  Petronella is far and way the most
>>> popular dance in our SF youth groups).  But H&G and S&T both occur in
>>> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
>>> dances.
>>>
>>> But it isn't just the 50 most popular.  Look at current programs --
>>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>>
>>> the old curmudgeon
>>> aka Bruce Herbold
>>> San Francisco
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Herbold
>

Bruce Herbold wrote....

"...we now have no dance with Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We
continue to have no dance with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And
Duke of Perth is the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.

>
>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population (and
>> I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did more of the
>> dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage participation by more
>> youth now? Petronella is far and way the most popular dance in our SF youth
>> groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in strathspey time as well and no
>> examples are on the list of 50 popular dances."
>>
>
One issue may be the age of dancers, but I doubt that's the full story.
Though I have no data to back it up, my impression is that in the UK there
is a trend away from dances with the "traditional" RSCDS formations to
dances with more intricate choreography. Could it be that dancers are
looking for something more challenging to the mind?

But I suspect dancers are also looking for dances that are less punishing on
the body. No-one has mentioned the quality of floors, but quite often I
find myself at dances where the floor is not made of sprung wood. This is
inevitable because finding sprung wood floors is getting more and more
difficult, at least in the places where I dance, so to keep costs down
groups resort to harder floors. This may also help explain the trend away
from dances with pas-de-basque.

In New York we are lucky enough to have wonderful floors for our weekend
workshop (21-23 May this year) and we do have quite a full range of
formations on the Friday and Saturday dance programmes, as you can see at
www.rscdsnewyork.org.

Please consider joining us!!

Chris, New York.

PS. Campbell, I'll email you the programmes separately.

Campbell, while we're on the subject, here's a link to the Silver Thistle
Weekend in Richmond, Virginia (USA).

http://scd-richmond.org/SilverThistleBall.html

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Bruce wrote:
Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's email
in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future and to dull
the rage of our dear adminstrator. I will point out that we are getting
further and further away from a lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our
programs.

I am delighted that this latest list has sparked this debate. (And also some
more programme contributions.) Perhaps I will see an upsurge in such dances
on programmes in the future (as I did see a temporary upsurge in Monymusk on
programmes a couple of months ago, elevating it to the giddy heights of
93!). I have negotiated with the International Branch to allow me to put
some more extensive lists on their website and I hope to get those off to
them this weekend. Just two explanations about the list - firstly that I
submitted the list twice as a new thread and it didn't appear. Has anyone
else had that problem when starting a new thread?

The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website for
programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to send me the
programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go to the website, but
in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes that are sent than to trawl
websites and check out whether there are new programmes there or not. And
as I only have so much time to do this, I always have a backlog of
programmes to capture so I hardly ever get to the websites. But the other
point about this is that one of the real bonuses of doing this work is the
contacts that I make with people from around the world. I am having a
delightful conversation with Mayumi Nagamine from Saitama in Japan, have got
to know Jean Deacon in Melbourne, Sue Petyt is a regular contributor from
the Lockerbie area, Bruce of course from San Francisco, Maureen Daniel from
Glasgow, Ian Brown from the Harrogate area, John Marshall from Cheltenham,
etc etc, over 70 people are in contact with me with programmes, sometimes
only once a year when they are a small or isolated group only holding a
dance annually, others regularly where they are in an area with lots of
clubs holding lots of dances. This is what makes the work so rewarding. So
please forgive me if I don't get to your website to extract your programmes,
perhaps when I retire I will be more diligent on that score, but for now a
huge thank you to those who send me programmes, also telling me how many
people were at the dance.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Herbold [mailto:bherbold@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 April 2010 09:11 PM
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Frequent dances update

With the descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance with fast
time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is the sole dance
with set to and turn corners in it.

Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population (and I
ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did more of the
dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage participation by more
youth now? Petronella is far and way the most popular dance in our SF youth
groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in strathspey time as well and no
examples are on the list of 50 popular dances.

But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs -- away
from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find programs
without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.

the old curmudgeon
aka Bruce Herbold
San Francisco
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

--
Bruce Herbold

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5008 (20100407) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Campbell wrote:

> The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website for
> programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to send me the
> programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go to the website,
> but
> in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes that are sent than to
> trawl
> websites and check out whether there are new programmes there or not

OK, this technodud needs to ask what does it mean, exactly, to send you the
programs, as opposed to giving you the link to them?

When I send you a link to, say, our Lake Sherando dance, am I making things
easy for you, or just supplying you with more information than you can
handle right now?

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

I wrote:

> The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website
> for programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to
> send me the programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go
> to the website, but in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes
> that are sent than to trawl websites and check out whether there are
> new programmes there or not

So Pat wrote:
>OK, this technodud needs to ask what does it mean, exactly, to send you the
programs, as opposed to giving you the link to them?
>When I send you a link to, say, our Lake Sherando dance, am I making things
easy for you, or just supplying you with more information than you can
handle right now?

The best thing for me is if someone sends me the dance programme as an
attachment to the email (or imbedded in it), which should include the name
of the organising group, the date of the dance, and if possible the
approximate number of people attending. Nearly all my time is spent
capturing these programmes. Failing that, the next best is if you send me
a link to where the programme is on the web (hopefully the other information
will be there too). I do occasionally have time (and hopefully am connected
to the web at that point*) to capture those. The last is to send me a link
to your club website and tell me to check there regularly for new
programmes. So far I have not yet had time to follow any of these leads.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

* Here in South Africa bandwidth is quite expensive and many people are
still ocnnected by dial-up. I am dependent on my landlord's wireless
connection which is only accesible from certain points in my place and
specifically not from my desk, so it means specially moving to the place
where I can connect. Much easier to work through emails.

Good day everyone,

I am pleased to be able to say that the International Branch has kindly
hosted my frequent dances lists and they have just published them. Their
website address is www.rscds-ib.org and you will find the lists if you click
on "Campbell's Lists". Again, without my contributors I could not do them,
so thanks to you all!

In dancing

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating, but we have to keep
it in perspective: Just because dances are in the top 50 doesn't mean they
are the only dances appearing on programs. It just means there is a core
group of dances that appearing over and over. Just because dances with
pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting aren't in the top 50 doesn't
mean they aren't appearing on programs. I know that our ball programs
almost always include at least two (if not all) of the figures hello-goodbye
setting, double triangles, and poussette. It just happens that there is no
single dance featuring one of those figures which we use over and over.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the average
program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com

*****************************

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
> with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>
> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
> participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
> popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
> dances.
>
> But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> The top 50 are (previous positions after):
>
> 1 Montgomeries Rant 3
> 2 Mairis Wedding 2
> 3 Pelorus Jack 1
> 4 Minister on the Loch 4
> 5 Maxwells Rant 7
> 6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
> 7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
> 8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
> 9 Hoopers Jig 8
> 10 Joie de Vivre 9
> 11 Bratach Bana 12
> 12 Irish Rover 10
> 13 Wild Geese 13
> 14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
> 15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
> 16 Neidpath Castle 14
> 17 Dream Catcher 16
> 18 Catch the Wind 23
> 19 Machine without Horses 24
> 20 Sugar Candie 19
> 21 Sailor 18
> 22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
> 23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
> 24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
> 25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
> 26 Napier's Index 29
> 27 Silver Tassie 28
> 28 Gang The Same Gate 22
> 29 Gentleman 30
> 30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
> 31 Quarries Jig 38
> 32 Tribute to the Borders 33
> 33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
> 34 Robertson Rant 39
> 35 EH37AF 31
> 36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
> 37 Polharrow Burn 32
> 38 Culla Bay 34
> 39 Piper and the Penguin 36
> 40 Duke of Perth 42
> 41 Clutha 40
> 42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
> 43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
> 44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
> 45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
> 46 Posties Jig 53
> 47 Trip to Bavaria 45
> 48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
> 49 White Heather Jig 48
> 50 John of Bon Accord 50
>
> The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
> Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.
>
>
>

The top 50 list is also impacted by the occasional but not unusual
programs purposely made up of the most popular dances, often as occurring
on the list. If I recall correctly, there were several reports of such
during the previous list discussion of the top 50 dances.

Mimi/Miriam Mueller San Francisco
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
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Lara Friedman-Shedlov wrote (on 26 April, I have only just picked this up)
>I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating (had to include that,

>thanks Lara), but we have to keep it in perspective: Just because dances
>are in the top 50 doesn't mean they are the only dances appearing on
programs.
>It just means there is a core group of dances that appearing over and over.

>Just because dances with pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting
>aren't in the top 50 doesn't mean they aren't appearing on programs.
>It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the
>average program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

I think I can answer that question: If we assume the average programme
consists of 20 dances, then on average:

1 of the first 6 will be on the programme (Montgomeries Rant, Mairis
Wedding, Pelorus Jack, Minister on the Loch, Maxwells Rant or Deil Amang the
Tailors)
1 of the next 7 (7 to 13)
1 of the next 8 (14 to 21)
1 of the next 9 (22 to 30)
1 of the next 10 (31 to 40)
1 of the next 11 (41 to 51).

So 6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Oops, sorry, a typo, I meant 14 would come from the rest, not 40!

-----Original Message-----
From: Campbell Personal [mailto:campbell@tyler.co.za]
Sent: 07 June 2010 12:06 PM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Frequent dances update

Lara Friedman-Shedlov wrote (on 26 April, I have only just picked this up)
>I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating (had to include
>that,

>thanks Lara), but we have to keep it in perspective: Just because
>dances are in the top 50 doesn't mean they are the only dances
>appearing on
programs.
>It just means there is a core group of dances that appearing over and over.

>Just because dances with pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting
>aren't in the top 50 doesn't mean they aren't appearing on programs.
>It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the
>average program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

I think I can answer that question: If we assume the average programme
consists of 20 dances, then on average:

1 of the first 6 will be on the programme (Montgomeries Rant, Mairis
Wedding, Pelorus Jack, Minister on the Loch, Maxwells Rant or Deil Amang the
Tailors)
1 of the next 7 (7 to 13)
1 of the next 8 (14 to 21)
1 of the next 9 (22 to 30)
1 of the next 10 (31 to 40)
1 of the next 11 (41 to 51).

So 6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

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>It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.<

Our latest Pretoria dance had 7 dances from the top 50 and 4 from the next 50 - one more than Campbell's average from each 50.

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria

Hello Campbell,

You wrote, assuming a dance programme has on average 20 dances:

> "6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
> from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
> next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
> interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
> programme features 6 of the top 50."
>

Dance programmes here tend to have about 16 dances, no more. So for a fair
comparison, we need to look at the percentages. Your data show that 30% of
the dances (on programmes given to you) were from the top 50, and another
15% from the next 50. Or 45% were from the top 100.

Data for the last 6 dances here is: 35% top 50 and 12% next 50. Quite close
to the average.

FWIW.

Chris, New York.