strathspey Archive: Programme makeup

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Programme makeup

Message 49911 · Ian Brockbank · 1 Oct 2007 11:24:45 · Top

Hi All,

I'm not talking about Halloween masks...

Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
around the world and how programmes are done.

How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
programme?
What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
RSCDS?
How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
this is a relevant question...)
How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
classes?

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Senior Applications Software Engineer
e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
scd: ian@scottishdance.net
t: +44 131 272 7145
f: +44 131 272 7001


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Fax: +44 (0)131 272 7001
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Registered in Scotland

Company number SC089839

Registered office:

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Programme makeup

Message 49912 · Ian Brockbank · 1 Oct 2007 11:30:46 · Top

And here are my answers, for the two groups I can answer for:

Edinburgh Branch
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
programme?
16 (8+8) for both, 15 (8+7) for the beginners' social to allow more time
for walk-throughs.

> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
RSCDS?
7/8

> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
Never

> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
this is a relevant question...)
None

> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
Some teachers, particularly for Beginners and Intermediate sent us
lesson plans.

> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
classes?
Depends on the teacher and the class level.

====================
Dunedin Dancers
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
programme?
16 (8+8) for socials, up to 20 for balls.

> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
RSCDS?
1/3

> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
Fairly regularly

> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
this is a relevant question...)
None

> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
N/A - no classes.

> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
classes?
People volunteer to run the regular Wednesday social night. Quite often
they will incorporate dances on upcoming programmes.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Senior Applications Software Engineer
e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
scd: ian@scottishdance.net
t: +44 131 272 7145
f: +44 131 272 7001

Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
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This message and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information that is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not an intended recipient you must not: read; copy; distribute; discuss; take any action in or make any reliance upon the contents of this message; nor open or read any attachment. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible on the following telephone number and destroy this message including any attachments. Thank you.
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Wolfson Microelectronics plc
Tel: +44 (0)131 272 7000
Fax: +44 (0)131 272 7001
Web: www.wolfsonmicro.com

Registered in Scotland

Company number SC089839

Registered office:

Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK

Programme makeup

Message 49913 · Lee Fuell · 1 Oct 2007 11:47:57 · Top

Hi, Ian,

Over here, social dances and balls usually have from 12 to 18 dances, depending on factors like whether or not the dance follows a day of workshop classes (fewer dances) or is a stand-alone ball (more dances).

The number of RSCDS published dances varies - some devisers(ors) emphasize RSCDS dances; others don't. I'm more concerned with creating a balanced and fun program than with including RSCDS dances, but the last program I did was half RSCDS.

We often put one or two new non-RSCDS dances on our programs, especially if locally devised.

As for regional coordination, every year the Cincinnati Branch teachers develop a list of Core Dances derived from the RSCDS Featured Dances plus three local additions. We use those as the basis of our social program for the year, with each social dance or ball required to include at least three of he Core Dances. Other than that, we don't formally coordinate social programs.

Teachers do almost all the dance programs, and we use the programs extensively to guide our classes. Class lesson plans are often based on upcoming social dances, emphasizing steps, technique and dances required for the socials.

Hope this helps,

Lee
Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com>
>Sent: Oct 1, 2007 5:24 AM
>To: Strathspey <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: Programme makeup
>
>Hi All,
>
>I'm not talking about Halloween masks...
>
>Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
>for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
>around the world and how programmes are done.
>

Programme makeup

Message 49914 · Etienne Ozorak · 1 Oct 2007 12:43:22 · Top

Ian,

For one, it often happens that the person putting the programme together
asks us (the band) for theiir favorite sets, or to comment on the order of
dances chosen in order to create a build-up of steam throughout the evening.

Some of the programmes we have contain as little as 10% of dances published
by the RSCDS. I could review past programs to give you some more detailed
numbers if that's useful to you. Let me know.

Etienne Ozorak
Meadville, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Brockbank" <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com>
To: "Strathspey" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:24 AM
Subject: Programme makeup

> Hi All,
>
> I'm not talking about Halloween masks...
>
> Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
> for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
> around the world and how programmes are done.
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?
> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?
> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)
> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian Brockbank
> Senior Applications Software Engineer
> e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
> scd: ian@scottishdance.net
> t: +44 131 272 7145
> f: +44 131 272 7001
>
>
>
>
> Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
> -------------------------------------------------
> This message and any attachments contain privileged and confidential
> information that is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is
> addressed. If you are not an intended recipient you must not: read; copy;
> distribute; discuss; take any action in or make any reliance upon the
> contents of this message; nor open or read any attachment. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible on
> the following telephone number and destroy this message including any
> attachments. Thank you.
> -------------------------------------------------
> Wolfson Microelectronics plc
> Tel: +44 (0)131 272 7000
> Fax: +44 (0)131 272 7001
> Web: www.wolfsonmicro.com
>
> Registered in Scotland
>
> Company number SC089839
>
> Registered office:
>
> Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK
>
>

Programme makeup

Message 49915 · Tom · 1 Oct 2007 13:29:04 · Top

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Brockbank" <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com>
Subject: Programme makeup

Hi Ian
If "around the world" includes Southern England, then the response from
Harpenden SCDC would be -
>>How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
programme?
12 at weekly club meetings, 22 at monthly meetings and Balls (Club
meetings are not classes)
>>What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
RSCDS?
Around 15 - 20 percent. (John Drewry content, 27 per cent)
>> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
Every meeting/dance/ball
>> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
this is a relevant question...) Monthly meetings are organised by an
umbrella group which co-ordinates the programmes of six local clubs
>> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
Weekly club meetings are lead by an experienced dancer who will devise the
programme for the week
>> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their classes?
50 - 60 per cent of weekly meetings are practices for the monthly dance. In
the month before the Ball this will rise to 70 - 80 percent
Hope this helps

Tom Busby
Harpenden Scottish Country Dancing Club

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21:01

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49920 · Martin Sheffield · 1 Oct 2007 18:04:14 · Top

In the latest number of "the Reel" (London branch magazine), a reader
complained that there were few strathspeys worth dancing, and that
spey music was generally pretty dull.
For him, a spey is just a breather between faster dances, and he
seems to think that a majority of people also "regard a spey as
second best."

I wonder if this is true.
It could be, as a good spey movement is something very difficult to
achieve.
I think that only the very best dancers really feel at ease and happy
with this very special step. Non-dancers that mechanically fit their
steps to a count of 1,2,3 & ..., without any feeling forr the music,
are not likely to enjoy the dance (even though they are enjoying the
company and friendship of a SCD event). The necessary combination of
strength, precision and grace do not come naturally to many people.

Although I do enjoy a spey (3-, 4-, or 5-cp dances more than 8x32), I
can quite understand why many people may not. I have noticed that
dancers seem to take longer to learn a spey than a jig or reel. Is
it that the slowness, and the long periods of immobility in many
dances, allow the mind to wonder? Or is it that they'd prefer to be
doing something else, but are too polite to say so?

As far as the music is concerned, the good tunes played well are
fantastic (imho), but there are dull tunes and there are musicians
who could do with a shot of coffee.

Does anyone remember a recording of Dalkeith Spey, where it sounds as
if the musicians drop off to sleep one after another, and the dance
ends with a thin sound of a lonely weary player? If this is the kind
of thing that the reader of the Reel is used to, then hardly
surprising that he would like to see fewer strathspeys on a dance
program.

Martin

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49925 · Volleyballjerry · 1 Oct 2007 19:50:41 · Top

Though it seems that I have been dancing and teaching since the dinosaurs
roamed the planet (the only teacher still actively doing so since [and before]
the formation of our San Gabriel Valley [Southern California] Branch in
1986), I do not recall ever having heard any complaint about strathspeys in a very
general sense. The only occasional grumbling that I recall is about
two-couple strathspeys in a four-couple set specifically, which some folks feel go
on too long and would prefer, as we occasionally do, to have them done in a
three-couple set six times through. That however is not my own preference,
since I like the every-other-round double progression that occurs with these
dances, which a three-couple set eliminates.

As far as their taking longer to teach/learn, I think that, if anything,
it's the opposite, since there's simply more time to think about a newly
introduced dance as it's being done than with quicktime. In fact I've occasionally
found it a good teaching mode with a particularly complicated quicktime dance
for the class to first learn it as a strathspey.

As far as music is concerned, I personally (unlike many others, I know!)
much prefer to do a strathspey to a melodious air than to the more traditional
(what I call "martial") strathspey. And it's to these that I might typically
hear someone else comment: "Oh, what beautiful strathspey music." As an
example of what I personally think of as a particularly beautiful strathspey to
which to dance and listen while dancing, I would cite The Slopes of Hlidarendi
and Royal Deeside.

Robb Quint
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49926 · Etienne Ozorak · 1 Oct 2007 21:15:01 · Top

Funny.

The strathspey is to Scottish culture what tango is to the argentine
culture...but seems to have lost its way.

Cheers,
Etienne Ozorak

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Sheffield" <mj.sheffield@orange.fr>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:04 PM
Subject: strathspeys (plural)

>
>
> In the latest number of "the Reel" (London branch magazine), a reader
> complained that there were few strathspeys worth dancing, and that spey
> music was generally pretty dull.
> For him, a spey is just a breather between faster dances, and he seems to
> think that a majority of people also "regard a spey as second best."
>
> I wonder if this is true.
> It could be, as a good spey movement is something very difficult to
> achieve.
> I think that only the very best dancers really feel at ease and happy
> with this very special step. Non-dancers that mechanically fit their
> steps to a count of 1,2,3 & ..., without any feeling forr the music, are
> not likely to enjoy the dance (even though they are enjoying the company
> and friendship of a SCD event). The necessary combination of strength,
> precision and grace do not come naturally to many people.
>
> Although I do enjoy a spey (3-, 4-, or 5-cp dances more than 8x32), I can
> quite understand why many people may not. I have noticed that dancers
> seem to take longer to learn a spey than a jig or reel. Is it that the
> slowness, and the long periods of immobility in many dances, allow the
> mind to wonder? Or is it that they'd prefer to be doing something else,
> but are too polite to say so?
>
> As far as the music is concerned, the good tunes played well are
> fantastic (imho), but there are dull tunes and there are musicians who
> could do with a shot of coffee.
>
> Does anyone remember a recording of Dalkeith Spey, where it sounds as if
> the musicians drop off to sleep one after another, and the dance ends
> with a thin sound of a lonely weary player? If this is the kind of thing
> that the reader of the Reel is used to, then hardly surprising that he
> would like to see fewer strathspeys on a dance program.
>
> Martin
>
>
>

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49927 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 1 Oct 2007 22:34:26 · Top

I go along Quint, yes, there are some really boring 2 couple x8
strathspeys, often to boring music. And Yes, I have always heard this
complaint. At the same time, I would not call a "good" strathspey set
to good music, simply a filler between two fast dances. After all, all
great symphonies have slow movements, without which, one´s music
collection would be limited to one of famous overatures, Bach´s
greatest themes, etc.

One problem as I see it, is that the majority of our slow time dances
are not set to strathspeys in the first place, simply a 4/4 tune played
at a certain speed. Many traditional strathspeys are exciting to dance
to, especially is danced to the original tempo, not the slow dirge that
some strathspeys are set to. At the same time, there are many good
modern strathspeys, or 4/4 non strathspeys, song tunes, airs, that are
equally inspiring. Besides Rob´s tripple minors 3x through, there are
many nice quadruple minors 4x through.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49928 · Claire Eymin · 1 Oct 2007 22:40:20 · Top

I do enjoy a good strathspey. In fact, a good few of my favourite
dances are strathspeys, along with the tunes which go with it. Maybe I
like the dance because of the music or vice versa.

As Martin said, it's the precision and grace involved in Strathspey
which makes it special. It is true that in the club I sometimes here
dancers huff and puff when a strathspey is announced.

Claire,
Grenoble, hoping to enjoy some good strathspeys this week.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49929 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 1 Oct 2007 22:41:40 · Top

While I agreed with Rob Quint, I disagree with ...
"Funny.

The strathspey is to Scottish culture what tango is to the argentine
culture...but seems to have lost its way."

While the majority of SCD dancers could tell the difference, the
majority of Scots could not tell a reel from a jig or a strathspey,
wheras most from Argentina could identify a tango. In fact,
proportionally more "hispanoparlantes" could identify a tango, then
most, then "angloparlantes" could a strathspey. I suspect, most Scots
would know the word "Strathspey" only as a place on a map. Even
Scottish Dance culture, only recognizes strathspeys as connected with
highland dancing, since outside of that genra, the RSCDS has no
traditional strathspeys. The only historic RSCDS dance documented as
such, is Montgomery´s Rant, and we do it to a reel.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49932 · Martin Sheffield · 1 Oct 2007 23:29:37 · Top

Le 1 oct. 07 à 22h40, Claire Eymin a écrit :

> Grenoble, hoping to enjoy some good strathspeys this week.

We'll just have to see who huffs the loudest!

Martin
>

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49933 · SMiskoe · 2 Oct 2007 00:33:18 · Top

There are lovely strathspeys and, just as there are Society dances no one
does, there are strathspeys that are best left on the shelf. Chris Blair, Jim
Johnstone, Angus Fitchet all wrote super tunes. And there are older ones,
too. It is an art form to create a set of melodic strathspeys that people
enjoy dancing to.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49934 · ron.mackey · 2 Oct 2007 00:56:10 · Top

>I do enjoy a good strathspey. In fact, a good few of my favourite
> dances are strathspeys, along with the tunes which go with it. Maybe I
> like the dance because of the music or vice versa.
>
> As Martin said, it's the precision and grace involved in Strathspey
> which makes it special. It is true that in the club I sometimes here
> dancers huff and puff when a strathspey is announced.
>
> Claire,
> Grenoble, hoping to enjoy some good strathspeys this week.

Hi, Claire
Try to get Martin to give you 'The Belle of Bon Accord'. Only to the
right music and at a good speed though. Too many of our Strathspeys are
danced too slowly as many teachers and experienced dancers like to 'make a
meal of them' having visions of the dems by athletes in the Younger Hall.
All stately and graceful etc. instead elegant, powerful and driving. :-)
IMO The Bell ... is one of the most complete dances ever written and yet
comparative beginners can grasp it quite easily. One could make out a good
case for dancers disliking S'peys because the music at slow speeds sounds
drab, dull and boreing.:~(
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49935 · John Cahill · 2 Oct 2007 02:32:57 · Top

At 09:04 AM 10/1/2007, you wrote:

>For him, a spey is just a breather between faster dances, and he
>seems to think that a majority of people also "regard a spey as
>second best."

At least for me, the answer is yes and no. In my list of favourites,
there are fewer strathspeys than any other type. But the ones that are
favourites are favourites indeed. Off the top of my head, "Bonnie
Stronshiray", "John McAlpine", "Monymusk", and (one I haven't seen
in a while) "Scotch Mist".

>As far as the music is concerned, the good tunes played well are
>fantastic (imho), but there are dull tunes and there are musicians
>who could do with a shot of coffee.

I wonder if part of that could be that the older strathspeys tunes were
never intended to be played as slowly as we need them played?

Cheers,

-John-
Lakewood, Calif.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49936 · Steve Wyrick · 2 Oct 2007 02:48:16 · Top

John Cahill wrote:
[Martin wrote:]
>> As far as the music is concerned, the good tunes played well are
>> fantastic (imho), but there are dull tunes and there are musicians
>> who could do with a shot of coffee.
>
> I wonder if part of that could be that the older strathspeys tunes were
> never intended to be played as slowly as we need them played?

Yeah, that's my thought as well. I also think that a number of the
strathspeys from the older books were probably never intended as dance
tunes, but were for listening. But it's fun to hear how some of those old
tunes come alive when played by a good Cape Breton fiddler, done at a good
clip with a driving beat!
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49939 · Martin Sheffield · 2 Oct 2007 09:44:21 · Top

>>

I wrote:
>> there are musicians who could do with a shot of coffee.

Let me add that this was not a criticism leveled at musicians. They
are merely doing what they are told to do.
If the lofty circles of some mysterious organization ordain that
speys should be played slower with every passing year, of course the
musicians must obey.
The slower they play, the more time they will have to lookout over
the dance floor and see how many young people are (or are not)
joining the dance.

Of course, when musicians find their way to Grenoble, they are gently
reminded that we are not all dem team athletes, and we need brisker
strathspeys.

Martin

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49944 · Steve Wyrick · 2 Oct 2007 17:02:43 · Top

On 10/2/07, Martin Sheffield <mj.sheffield@orange.fr> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> I wrote:
> >> there are musicians who could do with a shot of coffee.
>
> Let me add that this was not a criticism leveled at musicians. They
> are merely doing what they are told to do.
> If the lofty circles of some mysterious organization ordain that
> speys should be played slower with every passing year, of course the
> musicians must obey.
> The slower they play, the more time they will have to lookout over
> the dance floor and see how many young people are (or are not)
> joining the dance.
>
>
It's interesting to me that this slowing trend seems to be continuing; I've
heard some recently that were well under 60 (120) BPM. The strathspey step
is actually easier to do at a faster tempo; the slower tempo currently in
favor calls for more muscle control and stamina. I would expect that as our
dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards quicker
strathspeys, but this seems not to be the case...
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49946 · Martin Sheffield · 2 Oct 2007 17:53:28 · Top

Le 2 oct. 07 à 17h02, Steve Wyrick a écrit :

> I would expect that as our
> dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards
> quicker
> strathspeys,

Alas, no, since the idea seems quite wide-spread that slower =
easier, less strenuous.

A spey without muscular tension is just a shuffle, not a dance.

Must we conclude that all the aging SCDers are happy to shuffle?

What was all that talk about teaching dancing, not dances?

What a laugh!

Martin

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49951 · ron.mackey · 3 Oct 2007 01:17:57 · Top

> It's interesting to me that this slowing trend seems to be continuing;
> I've
> heard some recently that were well under 60 (120) BPM. The strathspey
> step
> is actually easier to do at a faster tempo; the slower tempo currently in
> favor calls for more muscle control and stamina.
When done properly - absolutely!

I would expect that as our
> dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards quicker
> strathspeys, but this seems not to be the case...
> --
> Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California
>

It is in this neck of the woods!! The interesting thing (to me at
least - it is a hobby-hores on mine) is that at StA this year whatever tempo
was used in the classes the evening dances were usually quite danceable.

Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Speed of music

Message 49948 · e.ferguson · 2 Oct 2007 22:42:26 · Top

We know that in the early (R)SCDS days (pre-WW2) strathspeys were played
very much faster.

How many bars per minute was then normal?

In the "Notes on teaching SCD" (Scottish Dance Archives, 1979), Ian Hall
states that reels and jigs normally have 58 bars per minute, and
strathspeys 34.

The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,
and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and 47
for strathspeys.

Has anyone tried playing / dancing strathspeys at the faster speeds
recently? How does it feel? Would it be an alternative style worth
trying?

I would love to hear opinions of both dancers and musicians.

Happy strathspeys,

Eric

On 2 Oct 2007 at 8:02, Steve Wyrick wrote:

> It's interesting to me that this slowing trend seems to be continuing; I've
> heard some recently that were well under 60 (120) BPM. The strathspey step
> is actually easier to do at a faster tempo; the slower tempo currently in
> favor calls for more muscle control and stamina. I would expect that as our
> dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards quicker
> strathspeys, but this seems not to be the case... -- Steve Wyrick --
> Concord, California

--
Eric T. Ferguson,
van Reenenweg 3,
3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands
tel: 030-2673638
e-mail: e.ferguson@antenna.nl

Speed of music

Message 49952 · Mike Briggs · 3 Oct 2007 01:34:04 · Top

Just for kicks, I posted three clips of 16 bars of a strathspey (The
Clachan) at the three speeds Eric mentioned, here.
<http://www.oertheborder.com/Strathspey_speed.html>
Try setting to them. I prefer the 34 bars-per-minute tempo. Skinner's
tempo is clearly way too fast for dancing RSCDS-style strathspeys.

Mike

--
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
Michael and Norma Briggs
1519 Storytown Road
Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
+1 608 835 0914
www.briggslawoffice.com

Speed of music

Message 49954 · ron.mackey · 3 Oct 2007 01:49:57 · Top

> Has anyone tried playing / dancing strathspeys at the faster speeds
> recently? How does it feel? Would it be an alternative style worth
> trying?
>
> I would love to hear opinions of both dancers and musicians.
>
> Happy strathspeys,
>
> Eric

See previous mail - but yes the faster style is definitely worth trying.
As someone just said/implied (Martin?) if S'peys are played too slowly even
those of middle age are inclined to do an ugly shuffle.
One of the benefits, especially for the no longer young dancer, is that
one can dance a proper step without the legs giving out after the first time
through. The slightly faster speed means the muscles are not so stressed
and one can dip and drive into the beat so that the technique honed in past
classes lasts longer. Another bonus is that turns are less of a heave and
more of a swing so the whole thing looks more lively and cheerful.

Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Speed of music

Message 49955 · suepetyt · 3 Oct 2007 09:43:13 · Top

I was speaking to a well known musician recently, who reminded me that when
recording music on the old 78 rpm records, the speed of the Strathspey was
determined by the amount of time it was possible to record onto one side,
and that you could only fit a 4x32 strathspey onto one side (if played more
quickly that today) and the dancers would have to wait while the music
re-started to finish the dance.

Personally I think the speed a strathspey is played should depend on the
figures in the dance. Trying to dance an elegant all round (diamond)
poussette at speed can definitely spoil it, while down the middle and back
is fine a little faster.

Happy Dancing
Sue Petyt Lochmaben

www.suepetyt.me.uk -----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-sue=suepetyt.me.uk@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-sue=suepetyt.me.uk@strathspey.org] On Behalf Of
Eric Ferguson
Sent: 02 October 2007 21:42
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Speed of music

We know that in the early (R)SCDS days (pre-WW2) strathspeys were played
very much faster.

How many bars per minute was then normal?

In the "Notes on teaching SCD" (Scottish Dance Archives, 1979), Ian Hall
states that reels and jigs normally have 58 bars per minute, and
strathspeys 34.

The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,
and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and 47
for strathspeys.

Has anyone tried playing / dancing strathspeys at the faster speeds
recently? How does it feel? Would it be an alternative style worth
trying?

I would love to hear opinions of both dancers and musicians.

Happy strathspeys,

Eric

On 2 Oct 2007 at 8:02, Steve Wyrick wrote:

> It's interesting to me that this slowing trend seems to be continuing;
I've
> heard some recently that were well under 60 (120) BPM. The strathspey
step
> is actually easier to do at a faster tempo; the slower tempo currently in
> favor calls for more muscle control and stamina. I would expect that as
our
> dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards quicker
> strathspeys, but this seems not to be the case... -- Steve Wyrick --
> Concord, California

--
Eric T. Ferguson,
van Reenenweg 3,
3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands
tel: 030-2673638
e-mail: e.ferguson@antenna.nl

Speed of music

Message 49956 · Martin Sheffield · 3 Oct 2007 10:03:59 · Top

Le 3 oct. 07 à 09h43, Sue Petyt a écrit :

> Personally I think the speed a strathspey is played should depend
> on the
> figures in the dance. Trying to dance an elegant all round (diamond)
> poussette at speed can definitely spoil it, while down the middle
> and back
> is fine a little faster.

So we should expect the musicians to speed up/slow down to match
whatever figure the dancers are doing, phrase by phrase?
Or have a spare ghillie standing beside the music box to vary the
speed of the cassttes/CDs?

Taking into account, of course, the special personal wishes of those
couples that like to spend plenty of time going down the middle & back
Or getting through that double-arch figure as quickly as possible,
because it never fits the music anyway.

And, harking back to a recent thread (long/short steps), presumably
long steps require more time than short ones? Which means, we should
even have to vary the pseed within an 8-bar phrase.

Do you mention these details in your dance descriptions, Sue?

I think I'll take up bridge.

Martin

Speed of music

Message 49957 · Jim Healy · 3 Oct 2007 14:44:10 · Top

Greetings!

Digging around the web for something not totally unrelated I came across the following extract from the web site of Sir George Young MP. A bit out of date but...

Jim Healy
Perth, Scotland

Practice makes perfect 29 Feb 2000
Last weekend, a number of middle-aged couples could be seen furtively approaching a barn in North Hampshire. They did not know each other, and were concerned about the ordeal that lay ahead. Would they embarrass themselves in front of each other and in front of total strangers?
But first, some background.
A year ago, I had attended a Scottish Reel party in aid of a local charity. I had done a fair bit of reeling in my youth, and assumed that it would all come back.
Three things had happened since I had last danced the Duke of Perth and Hamilton House. First, thirty winters had come and gone, and had robbed me of my agility; second, the brain cells that stored the relevant information about the steps and sequences had sadly perished. Third, just as policemen seem to get younger, so Scottish dancing seems to get faster.
The consequence, a year ago, was what the Army politely call injury through friendly fire. A number of ladies who had inscribed my name on their card and who were partnered by me for the dance sustained collateral damage. Nothing life threatening, but some bruises and compressed toes; and there were some collisions with other innocent parties whose space I invaded.
And so, when another invitation arrived last month, requesting my attendance at another Charity Ball at which Scottish dances would be performed, I faced a dilemma. Boycott the event, in order to save the shins of the gentlewomen of North Hampshire; or help raise funds for the charity and risk social ostracism.
Hence the furtive appearance at the rehearsal in the barn. Here, dancing took place at a reasonable tempo; the steps were explained; first aid was at hand. A licence was issued certifying the holder safe to take to the floor on the night itself.
And so, to-morrow, I take to the floor again. The casualty department at Basingstoke Hospital has little to worry about.


Speed of music

Message 49958 · Steve Wyrick · 3 Oct 2007 19:41:39 · Top

This makes some sense; might explain why Skinner chose some of the amazingly
quick tempos he did on his recordings--trying to get it all in in 3-odd
minutes! If recordings are an unreliable indicator of standard speed, do we
know anything about tempos played by "live" dance bands during those days?

This doesn't explain why strathspey tempos have continued to slow since the
advent of the LP (and even the CD), though. Personally I think that the
striving towards "elegance" is the culprit, for better or worse! I agree
with your point about the tempo matching the figures, Sue, but I'm not
convinced that any of our contemporary figures are spoiled by a small
increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per
minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from Ian
Hall's article in 1979.

On 10/3/07, Sue Petyt <sue@suepetyt.me.uk> wrote:
>
> I was speaking to a well known musician recently, who reminded me that
> when
> recording music on the old 78 rpm records, the speed of the Strathspey was
> determined by the amount of time it was possible to record onto one side,
> and that you could only fit a 4x32 strathspey onto one side (if played
> more
> quickly that today) and the dancers would have to wait while the music
> re-started to finish the dance.
>
> Personally I think the speed a strathspey is played should depend on the
> figures in the dance. Trying to dance an elegant all round (diamond)
> poussette at speed can definitely spoil it, while down the middle and back
> is fine a little faster.
>
> Happy Dancing
> Sue Petyt Lochmaben
>
> www.suepetyt.me.uk -----Original Message-----
> From: strathspey-bounces-sue=suepetyt.me.uk@strathspey.org
> [mailto:strathspey-bounces-sue=suepetyt.me.uk@strathspey.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Ferguson
> Sent: 02 October 2007 21:42
> To: SCD news and discussion
> Subject: Speed of music
>
> We know that in the early (R)SCDS days (pre-WW2) strathspeys were played
> very much faster.
>
> How many bars per minute was then normal?
>
> In the "Notes on teaching SCD" (Scottish Dance Archives, 1979), Ian Hall
> states that reels and jigs normally have 58 bars per minute, and
> strathspeys 34.
>
> The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,
> and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and 47
> for strathspeys.
>
> Has anyone tried playing / dancing strathspeys at the faster speeds
> recently? How does it feel? Would it be an alternative style worth
> trying?
>
> I would love to hear opinions of both dancers and musicians.
>
> Happy strathspeys,
>
> Eric
>
>
> On 2 Oct 2007 at 8:02, Steve Wyrick wrote:
>
> > It's interesting to me that this slowing trend seems to be continuing;
> I've
> > heard some recently that were well under 60 (120) BPM. The strathspey
> step
> > is actually easier to do at a faster tempo; the slower tempo currently
> in
> > favor calls for more muscle control and stamina. I would expect that as
> our
> > dancer population is aging, there'd be more of a movement towards
> quicker
> > strathspeys, but this seems not to be the case... -- Steve Wyrick --
> > Concord, California
>
>
> --
> Eric T. Ferguson,
> van Reenenweg 3,
> 3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands
> tel: 030-2673638
> e-mail: e.ferguson@antenna.nl
>
>
>
>

--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

Speed of music

Message 49959 · Monica Pollard · 3 Oct 2007 21:36:13 · Top

On 10/3/07, Steve Wyrick <sjwyrick@astound.net> wrote:
>...Personally I think that the striving towards "elegance" is the
culprit, for better or worse! I agree with your point about the tempo
matching the figures, Sue, but I'm not
> convinced that any of our contemporary figures are spoiled by a small
> increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per
> minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from Ian
> Hall's article in 1979.

I listened to the 34 bar/min speed and it seems quite reasonable. A
good strong strathspey step is physically more demanding at slow
speeds. Perhaps if we could get our strathspey music recordings up to
34 bars/min, I wouldn't get quite so many rolled eyes when I introduce
a strathspey in class :-). Some folks love them, and some (who often
don't really 'get' the step yet, and aren't up to the level of
thinking less about where they're going and more about being sociable
with their fellow dancers) think they're boring.

Monica
Idaho

Speed of music

Message 49961 · Eric Clyde · 4 Oct 2007 03:11:12 · Top

The time limitations of 78rpm records is a bit of a red herring. I
cannot recall ever
dancing to records when I was growing up in the south of Scotland in the
1940s and early 1950s.
There were usually pianists or small groups for the classes and socials
-- on one interesting occasion,
we even had a mandolin orchestra of eight players!

The music was played much faster than it is today, but we were young,
and the dances and formations were
less complicated than many on programmes now.

Personally, I enjoyed the challenge of the more complicated dances and
formations, but young people
have lots of other interests and don't want to spend the necessary time
and effort. Maybe if we could foster
the idea that ceilidh dancing is an introduction to Scottish country
dancing, we might attract more youngsters!

Eric Clyde
Ottawa

Steve Wyrick wrote:
> This makes some sense; might explain why Skinner chose some of the amazingly
> quick tempos he did on his recordings--trying to get it all in in 3-odd
> minutes! If recordings are an unreliable indicator of standard speed, do we
> know anything about tempos played by "live" dance bands during those days?
>
> This doesn't explain why strathspey tempos have continued to slow since the
> advent of the LP (and even the CD), though. Personally I think that the
> striving towards "elegance" is the culprit, for better or worse! I agree
> with your point about the tempo matching the figures, Sue, but I'm not
> convinced that any of our contemporary figures are spoiled by a small
> increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per
> minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from Ian
> Hall's article in 1979.

Speed of music

Message 49966 · Iain Boyd · 4 Oct 2007 09:06:19 · Top

Dear Eric,

The time limitations of 78rpm records is not a red herring as here in New Zealand that was all we had to dance to in the 50s and 60s!

Regards,

Iain Boyd



Eric Clyde <eclyde@rogers.com> wrote:
The time limitations of 78rpm records is a bit of a red herring. I
cannot recall ever dancing to records when I was growing up in the south of Scotland in the 1940s and early 1950s.
There were usually pianists or small groups for the classes and socials -- on one interesting occasion,
we even had a mandolin orchestra of eight players!

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404
Wellington
New Zealand
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Speed of music

Message 49971 · Eric Clyde · 4 Oct 2007 16:59:15 · Top

Dear Iain:
I came to Canada in the mid-1950s -- to rural Manitoba -- so there too,
all we had to dance to was 78rpm records.
What I meant was that, in the 1940s and early 50s, the music was played
faster, at least in the south of Scotland.
The bands may have speeded up slightly for the recordings, but not by much.

All the best,

Eric Clyde

Iain Boyd wrote:
> Dear Eric,
>
> The time limitations of 78rpm records is not a red herring as here in New Zealand that was all we had to dance to in the 50s and 60s!
>
> Regards,
>
> Iain Boyd
>
>
>
>
> Eric Clyde <eclyde@rogers.com> wrote:
> The time limitations of 78rpm records is a bit of a red herring. I
> cannot recall ever dancing to records when I was growing up in the south of Scotland in the 1940s and early 1950s.
> There were usually pianists or small groups for the classes and socials -- on one interesting occasion,
> we even had a mandolin orchestra of eight players!
>
>
> Postal Address -
>
> P O Box 11-404
> Wellington
> New Zealand
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>

Speed of music

Message 49974 · ron.mackey · 4 Oct 2007 22:01:21 · Top

> Dear Eric,
>
> The time limitations of 78rpm records is not a red herring as here in New
> Zealand that was all we had to dance to in the 50s and 60s!
>
> Regards,
>
> Iain Boyd

Yes Iain! But the red herring is that the bands of the day played at
more or less the same speed anyway. No strathspey I danced to in those
days to bands such as Andrew Rankine, Ian Powrie or Jimmy Shand etc.etc.
ever played as slowly as the RSCDS recordings of recent years. My belief
is that these very slow strathspeys were the hobby-horse of only a few
musicians mostly playing in the Edinburgh area. I could name them but
won't!
The strange thing is that when these same players play socially in a
relaxed athmosphere their strathspeys speed up!
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Speed of music

Message 49982 · John Chambers · 4 Oct 2007 22:08:16 · Top

Eric Clyde wrote:
| I came to Canada in the mid-1950s -- to rural Manitoba -- so there too,
| all we had to dance to was 78rpm records.
| What I meant was that, in the 1940s and early 50s, the music was played
| faster, at least in the south of Scotland.
| The bands may have speeded up slightly for the recordings, but not by much.

One thing you should consider is that, historically, record producers
have considered changing the speed by 10% to be insignificant.
Records were rarely at the actual speed that the music was originally
played. Such speed changes weren't due to any artistic consideratins,
they were just sloppiness on the part of the technicians.

So if a band recorded a track at a tempo of 60, say, playback at 55
or 65 would be common. The only way you can really find out how far
off a record is is to ask the band what key they actually played it
in. (10% is about a whole step.)

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Speed of music

Message 49984 · hways · 5 Oct 2007 01:25:18 · Top

And also in the United States in the 50's.

Harry
,,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iain Boyd" <iain_boyd_scd@yahoo.co.nz>
>
> The time limitations of 78rpm records is not a red herring as here in New
> Zealand that was all we had to dance to in the 50s and 60s!
>
> Regards,
>
> Iain Boyd
>
>
>
>

Speed of music

Message 49988 · Ian Brockbank · 5 Oct 2007 13:41:49 · Top

Hi Eric,

> Personally, I enjoyed the challenge of the more complicated dances and

> formations, but young people have lots of other interests and don't
want
> to spend the necessary time and effort.

Around here, it's the students who are the greatest adrenaline junkies
- everyone moving at once, full of complex figures.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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Speed of music

Message 49992 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 6 Oct 2007 09:05:08 · Top

To Jim Healy. There is a possibility that you are not getting all of
your e-mail. I just sent a post and got this delivery fault in return
...

"- El servidor de correo ha procesado los siguientes destinatarios del
mensaje:
jc@trillian.mit.edu; Fallido; 5.4.0 (estado de la red o de la
enrutación no definido o diferente)".

Literally, the server has prossessed the following distinations of the
message jc@trillian.mit.edu, failed (state of the net or of the route
is not defined or different).

Speed of music

Message 49993 · George Meikle · 6 Oct 2007 10:29:59 · Top

Goss wrote:-

Literally, the server has prossessed the following distinations of the
message jc@trillian.mit.edu, failed (state of the net or of the route
is not defined or different).

I thought jc@trillian.mit.edu is John Chambers email address and not Jim
Healy's, or am I missing something.

George Meikle (Dunfermline)

Speed of music

Message 49994 · John Chambers · 6 Oct 2007 18:02:45 · Top

| To Jim Healy. There is a possibility that you are not getting all of=20
| your e-mail. I just sent a post and got this delivery fault in return=20
| ...
|
| "- El servidor de correo ha procesado los siguientes destinatarios del=20
| mensaje:
| jc@trillian.mit.edu; Fallido; 5.4.0 (estado de la red o de la=20
| enrutaci=C3=B3n no definido o diferente)".
|
| Literally, the server has prossessed the following distinations of the=20
| message jc@trillian.mit.edu, failed (state of the net or of the route=20
| is not defined or different).

Funny thing is that that's my email address, not Jim's. I sorta doubt
that the error message came from trillian.mit.edu, because all of its
messages are in English (or Geekish ;-), not Spanish. I don't know
how to interpret that error message, in either language. Any chance
you could send some more of the headers, so maybe we could diagnose
which machine screwed up here? Maybe Anselm has an idea?

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Speed of music

Message 49996 · Anselm Lingnau · 7 Oct 2007 22:22:57 · Top

John Chambers wrote:

> | "- El servidor de correo ha procesado los siguientes destinatarios del=20
> | mensaje:
> | jc@trillian.mit.edu; Fallido; 5.4.0 (estado de la red o de la=20
> | enrutaci=C3=B3n no definido o diferente)".
> |
> | Literally, the server has prossessed the following distinations of the=20
> | message jc@trillian.mit.edu, failed (state of the net or of the route=20
> | is not defined or different).
>
> Funny thing is that that's my email address, not Jim's. I sorta doubt
> that the error message came from trillian.mit.edu, because all of its
> messages are in English (or Geekish ;-), not Spanish.

This is probably the mail server at Goss's ISP talking, not yours. It got an
error message when it was speaking to trillian -- or trying to, anyway --
whose gist is expressed in the magic numbers »5.4.0« (what we geeks call
a »delivery status notification«) and it is of course free to pass this on in
whatever language it pleases. Considering that it is in Spain, Spanish isn't
a very unreasonable choice. (Personally I would include the original message,
too, but that's just me.)

I agree with John that it would be worthwhile looking at some more headers.
The best way would be to use a function like »Message source text«
or »Original message« that some mail readers have, copy *all* of what appears
into a new message and send that to me so I can check it out.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
If you are going to become a writer, the last thing you want is a computer
because you won't become a writer, you will become a nerd or a nervous wreck.
-- Mike Royko

Speed of music

Message 49964 · Eric Kean · 4 Oct 2007 06:29:09 · Top

Hello Steve,

Strathspey played at 34 bar/min should be 136 beats/min ..... is it not?

On listening to some my CDs, I am finding an average of about 120 beat/min
for strathspey; and
an average of about 114 beat/min for reel or jig.

Slainte
Eric Kean
Medicine Hat, Alberta

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Wyrick" <sjwyrick@astound.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Speed of music

> increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per
> minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from
> Ian
> Hall's article in 1979.
>
>>
>> The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,
>> and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and
>> 47
>> for strathspeys.
>>
>

Speed of music

Message 49968 · RODERICK JOHNSTON · 4 Oct 2007 11:17:24 · Top

RSCDs specify

61.5 b/m for Strathspays and 112 b/m for reels and jigs and little leeway is given. The musician would vary the tempo a little either side depending on the people he is playing for and the conditions.

rod
Eric Kean <ekean@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello Steve,

Strathspey played at 34 bar/min should be 136 beats/min ..... is it not?

On listening to some my CDs, I am finding an average of about 120 beat/min
for strathspey; and
an average of about 114 beat/min for reel or jig.

Slainte
Eric Kean
Medicine Hat, Alberta

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Wyrick"
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Speed of music

> increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per
> minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from
> Ian
> Hall's article in 1979.
>
>>
>> The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,
>> and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and
>> 47
>> for strathspeys.
>>
>

Speed of music

Message 49969 · Jim Healy · 4 Oct 2007 13:20:55 · Top

Greetings!

Roderick Johnstone writes:

> > RSCDs specify> > 61.5 b/m for Strathspeys and 112 b/m for reels and jigs and little leeway is given.

As Beachcomber would say - God save us and preserve us. What the RSCDS specifies is what is in The Manual (below) which I read as giving all the leeway a musician and the dancers need. I will never forget an evening dance after a Perth Branch Day School when one of those attending just the dance complained to Colin Dewar that he was playing a bit quick. He looked at the complainant and said "Aye, but you haven't been dancing all day - they need a wee lift".

Jim Healy
Perth, Scotland


4.5 The speed of the music

Music for Scottish country dancing should be played at a consistent tempo throughout a
dance. The ideal tempo for dancing is one that allows for easy movement and execution
of the steps, good phrasing and poise. This means that a metronome marking can only be
an indication of tempo, not a rigid rule. Many factors have to be taken into account when
setting tempo. These include the experience and age of the dancers; the condition of the
room; the condition of the floor; the purpose of the dancing at the time; or whether it is
early or late in the course of an evening’s programme of dancing.
Children and beginner dancers of all ages need the music slightly faster till balance and
strength are built up. Once experienced, children are then often capable of dancing at
fairly slow speeds. When learning steps and formations, the music should be slowed
down while the dancers are concentrating on co-ordination or pattern. Very experienced
dancers have the strength and control to adopt a very leisurely tempo. If the floor is
slippery, it is very difficult to move around the floor with ease if the music is fast. If the
floor is hard, it is very tiring to keep dancing well if the music is too slow. For a social
occasion the speed of the music should be aimed at an average standard of dancing.
Experienced dancers should be able to cope at almost any speed, but many dancers on the
floor will not necessarily be experienced. With good programme planning, there should
be a build-up of excitement towards the end of the evening. The dancers, however, will
be becoming tired and so the music needs to be exciting and, possibly, very slightly
speeded up to keep everyone going.
4.5.1 Suggestions for tempo
For the musician, a metronome speed of = 112 (approximately 34 seconds for 32 bars)
would be a good average tempo for jig-time; = 112 (again approximately 34 seconds for
32 bars) would be a good average tempo for reel-time; and = 60 (approximately 64
seconds for 32 bars) would be a good average tempo for strathspey-time.
Many tunes seem to drop into a tempo that is very natural for that tune, which may be
slightly quicker or slower than another tune in the same rhythm, eg the two very different
strathspeys Monymusk and Up in the Air. Another example would be the different feel of
a two-step and an 18th century fiddle jig – Pelorus Jack as opposed to Jubilee Jig.


Chapter 4: Music
26 June 2005


> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:17:24 +0100> From: roderick.johnston@btopenworld.com> To: strathspey@strathspey.org> Subject: Re: Speed of music> > RSCDs specify> > 61.5 b/m for Strathspays and 112 b/m for reels and jigs and little leeway is given. The musician would vary the tempo a little either side depending on the people he is playing for and the conditions.> > rod> Eric Kean <ekean@shaw.ca> wrote:> Hello Steve,> > Strathspey played at 34 bar/min should be 136 beats/min ..... is it not?> > On listening to some my CDs, I am finding an average of about 120 beat/min > for strathspey; and> an average of about 114 beat/min for reel or jig.> > Slainte> Eric Kean> Medicine Hat, Alberta> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Wyrick" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:41 AM> Subject: Re: Speed of music> > > > increase in speed, say back up to the figure of 34 bar/min (68 beats per> > minute, compared with our current standard of 60) that Eric quoted from > > Ian> > Hall's article in 1979.> >> >>> >> The current Manual advises 56 for jigs and reels, and 30 for strathspeys,> >> and mentions Scott Skinner (one century ago) as using 63 for reels, and > >> 47> >> for strathspeys.> >>> > > >

Speed of music

Message 49970 · mlamontbrown · 4 Oct 2007 13:32:43 · Top

Sue wrote:
> I was speaking to a well known musician recently, who reminded me that when
> recording music on the old 78 rpm records, the speed of the Strathspey was
> determined by the amount of time it was possible to record onto one side,
> and that you could only fit a 4x32 strathspey onto one side

I have finally got round to getting out my old records (the 33s), because I thought
this "space on a 78" was a well known "factoid".

I have just played Duchess of Atholl's Slipper on Jimmy Shand's "Gateway to the
Forth"
32 bars takes 56 seconds.

And Lord Elgin's Reel on Olympians' "Dances of Scotland", 32 bars takes 59 seconds.

And 32 bar Strathspey Medley, Bobby Macleod's "Complete Scottish Dance Master No 1"
32 bars takes 61 seconds

(And to check the player - 33 1/3 revolutions takes 59.3 seconds)

At this point I think I will stop - recorded strathspeys were played faster than they
are today, even when there was no problem with space on the vinyl.


Malcolm L Brown
York (UK)

SCD holidays

Message 50003 · Martin Sheffield · 9 Oct 2007 16:09:35 · Top

As in previous years, I am organizing another country dance holiday
in the mountains near Grenoble, southeastern France.

It will run from 23 to 30 June 2008.

Ken Martlew and Ian Cutts will provide the music,
and Avril and David Quarrie will be MC-ing and teaching.

We shall be staying in a 14th century chateau, converted into a
comfortable hotel in the village of Chichilanne some 40 km south of
Grenoble, 1000 m above sea level.

It will be a holiday, not a summer school, for experienced dancers to
enjoy the music, the dance, and each other's company as well as to
explore a pleasant rural area between the northern and southern Alps.

Accommodation is very limited, first come first served!

For more detailed information, see my web site:
<http://perso.orange.fr/scots.in.france/Gren08.htm>

Do get in touch if you are interested:
<mj.sheffield@orange.fr>

You can also read about previous dance holidays and see a few photos:
<http://perso.orange.fr/scots.in.france/holidays.htm>

There are pages of general info about SCD clubs and activities in
France:
<http://perso.orange.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm>

and others with a selection of my modern country dances in the
Scottish tradition:
<http://perso.orange.fr/scots.in.france/dances.htm>

Martin,
Grenoble.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49953 · ron.mackey · 3 Oct 2007 01:39:35 · Top

> At least for me, the answer is yes and no. In my list of favourites,
> there are fewer strathspeys than any other type. But the ones that are
> favourites are favourites indeed. Off the top of my head, "Bonnie
> Stronshiray", "John McAlpine", "Monymusk", and (one I haven't seen
> in a while) "Scotch Mist".
>

I gave The Silver Tassie tonight -er -last night and it went down a
bomb. Mind the music was not modern slow!
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49960 · Steve Wyrick · 4 Oct 2007 02:29:44 · Top

Ron Mackey wrote:

> I gave The Silver Tassie tonight -er -last night and it went down a
> bomb.

On first reading I interpreted this as "it bombed" (bad in the US) but then
thought that I might be wrong from the context, googled the expression and
realized you meant it went well! What was that about "2 nations separated
by a common language...?
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49965 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 4 Oct 2007 09:07:16 · Top

What is interesting about "Silver Tassie", a dance that I have always
enjoyed, is that it is a modern composed, as opposed to traditional,
strathspey dance, that is danced to a traditional tune of that name
that is not in fact a strathspey.

strathspeys (plural)

Message 49973 · ron.mackey · 4 Oct 2007 21:49:38 · Top

> On first reading I interpreted this as "it bombed" (bad in the US) but
> then
> thought that I might be wrong from the context, googled the expression and
> realized you meant it went well! What was that about "2 nations separated
> by a common language...?
> --
> Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California
>

Must keep my fingers under control! Didn't even give a second possible
meaning a thought. :~)
Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Programme makeup

Message 49916 · Martin Sheffield · 1 Oct 2007 13:42:11 · Top

Le 1 oct. 07 à 11h24, Ian Brockbank a écrit :
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?

We have not had formal balls here (Grenoble).
Sunday day-time dancing 14 - 18 (of which 3 - 5 from RSCDS books),
according to the recordfds of the last two years.
Non-beginners here expect new dances.

> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?

Regularly.

> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region?

No longer, alas.
But we try to practice for dances elsewhere *if* any of our members
are interested.

Martin

Programme makeup

Message 49918 · Monica Pollard · 1 Oct 2007 16:38:44 · Top

Just for a different perspective, here's what we do. Remember, we are
at least 5-8 hours drive from the nearest SCD groups.

On 10/1/07, Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
> for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
> around the world and how programmes are done.
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?

We can only afford to do one large event per year, St. Andrews. For
that we try to do 3-4 easy ceilidh-type dances and 6 RSCDS/non-RSCDS
dances. We choose the regular dances from the programs of surrounding
Branches, such as Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco. We use the
last part of the evening for party-pieces - skits, music performance,
poetry, jokes, etc.
A typical end-of-session social is about six dances in two hours, w/
snack in the middle.

> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?

60-80% usually.

> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
Whether a dance is non-RSCDS or not doesn't enter into it. If our
dancers like it, either because one of us two teachers taught it or
they learned it elsewhere, we consider it.

> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)
If you call using mostly dances from other Branch upcoming events,
then we coordinate. They certainly don't look at our programs. :-)

> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
We (the other teacher and I) chose the programs from the dances we've
taught in the last year.

> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?
As I've said, we use dances from upcoming dance programs in other
areas. For instance, at this time of year we teach mostly dances from
the Asilomar program. We're so small it's the only way we can prepare
our dancers for traveling to large events in the greater Western area.

Monica
Idaho
--
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
Gandhi

Programme makeup

Message 49919 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 1 Oct 2007 17:57:58 · Top

On 10/1/07, Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com> wrote:
>
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?

For informal socials (limited to a 2-hour time frame): around 9 or 10
Failte (beginner-friendly) Ball: 12-14
Annual Grand Ball: 16-20

What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?

Anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3.

How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?

For the Annual Grand Ball, we will frequently include a new, non-RSCDS dance
that the program deviser or another teacher in the branch may have recently
learned and enjoyed.

How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)

For our two major balls, we coordinate with other groups in the Midwestern
U.S. to avoid schedule conflicts. There is no coordination as far as the
programs go, however.

How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?

Programs are almost always devised by teachers.

How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?

Quite a bit. If we don't teach dances that are going to be on upcoming
balls and social programs in class, we will be forced to take too much time
during the dance to do walk-throughs (this is especially a problem for the
informal socials, where we have a very limited time frame). When selecting
the programs for dances, we try to keep select dances that include the
formations, etc. we want to teach in class, so that we can still teach
"dancing" and not just "dances."

Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

--
*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com Google, but
warm-blooded"
*****************************

Programme makeup

Message 49921 · Ian Brockbank · 1 Oct 2007 18:56:32 · Top

Hi All,

Thank you for all the interesting answers so far. I will collate them
and put out a summary at some point if anyone is interested.

One thing I forgot to ask - are you an RSCDS branch?
(My answers - Edinburgh Branch - yes, Dunedin - no)

And I'd also be interested how many of you actively involve the
musicians in the dances, as Etienne is involved.
(Er, no, I have to admit).

Here are my guesses so far, based on what I know of the correspondents:

Lee - probably - Cincinnati
Etienne - A mixture of branches and others?
Tom - No - Harpenden SCDC
Martin - Er, can't remember, possibly
Monica - ???
Lara - yes - Twin cities

If I've guessed wrong, please let me know.

Also, if you prefer to respond off-list, that would be fine by me.

Thanks for all your time,

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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Registered office:

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Programme makeup

Message 49922 · Martin Sheffield · 1 Oct 2007 19:05:41 · Top

Le 1 oct. 07 à 18h56, Ian Brockbank a écrit :

>
> One thing I forgot to ask - are you an RSCDS branch?

> Martin - Er, can't remember, possibly

No, an affiliated association
(Thistle of Dauphiné, Grenoble SCD club).

I did not realize you were asking about branches only (rather limits
the possible answers).

Martin

Programme makeup

Message 49923 · Lee Fuell · 1 Oct 2007 19:13:52 · Top

Ian,

Yep, RSCDS Cincinnati and RSCDS Northern Virginia. As for involving the musicians, I've only recently learned the value of doing so. As I learn more about the nuances of SCD music, I realize how important it is to balance a program musically as well as "geographically." And I don't just mean jigs, reels and strathspeys - as many of you know, there are different styles of each, and different keys, and getting a good musical variety (and in the right place) makes a program much more interesting. Musicians can be a big help with this.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com>
>Sent: Oct 1, 2007 12:56 PM
>To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: RE: Programme makeup
>
>Hi All,
>
>Thank you for all the interesting answers so far. I will collate them
>and put out a summary at some point if anyone is interested.
>
>One thing I forgot to ask - are you an RSCDS branch?
>(My answers - Edinburgh Branch - yes, Dunedin - no)
>
>And I'd also be interested how many of you actively involve the
>musicians in the dances, as Etienne is involved.
>(Er, no, I have to admit).
>
>Here are my guesses so far, based on what I know of the correspondents:
>
>Lee - probably - Cincinnati
>Etienne - A mixture of branches and others?
>Tom - No - Harpenden SCDC
>Martin - Er, can't remember, possibly
>Monica - ???
>Lara - yes - Twin cities
>
>If I've guessed wrong, please let me know.
>
>Also, if you prefer to respond off-list, that would be fine by me.
>
>Thanks for all your time,
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ian Brockbank
>Edinburgh, Scotland
>ian@scottishdance.net
>http://www.scottishdance.net/
>
>
>Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
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>-------------------------------------------------
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>Tel: +44 (0)131 272 7000
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>Web: www.wolfsonmicro.com
>
>Registered in Scotland
>
>Company number SC089839
>
>Registered office:
>
>Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK
>

Programme makeup

Message 49930 · Ian Brockbank · 1 Oct 2007 22:43:35 · Top

Hi Martin,

> I did not realize you were asking about branches only (rather limits
> the possible answers).

I wasn't. I am just interested to see if there is a difference in answers
between branches and non-branches.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

Programme makeup

Message 49931 · Peter Price · 1 Oct 2007 23:09:28 · Top

Ian,

The branch run socials & class parties are usually 12 dances long. The
annual ball is 18 dances. I would say that the percentage of Society dance
is in the 75% range or higher. The ball programs are put together by a
teacher chosen by the ball committee with oversight by the branch.

Two of the local classes sponser a sprng ball (KIlts & Ghillies)- also 18
dances long. The teacher(s) of these classes put together the program
independantly of the branch and other classes. When I took over the
programing for the KIlts & Ghillies Ball (2002) I set a goal of 50% RSCDS
with the balance being new dances. I use the Napier Index difficulty rating
when possible and aim for an average between 2.5 and 3.5. (Note - this is a
very rough guide but better than nothing).
Previously the ball has had as few as 2 RSCDS out of 18 dances.

If you want numbers or actual programs let me know and I will reply
privately.

Peter Price
New Haven, CT

On 10/1/07, Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm not talking about Halloween masks...
>
> Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
> for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
> around the world and how programmes are done.
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?
> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?
> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)
> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian Brockbank
> Senior Applications Software Engineer
> e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
> scd: ian@scottishdance.net
> t: +44 131 272 7145
> f: +44 131 272 7001
>
>
>
>
> Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
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> information that is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is
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> contents of this message; nor open or read any attachment. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible on the
> following telephone number and destroy this message including any
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> -------------------------------------------------
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>
> Registered in Scotland
>
> Company number SC089839
>
> Registered office:
>
> Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK
>
>

Programme makeup

Message 49937 · Alan Twhigg · 2 Oct 2007 07:27:08 · Top

Hi Ian,

Here are the data for the San Francisco Branch, since I don't think
anyone else has responded from here:

monthly social programmes - 15 dances; balls - 18 dances

We aim for 2/3 RSCDS dances on all Branch programmes.

new non-RSCDS dances - 1 or 2 on a typical social program,
occasionally on balls (actually I'm not sure whether you mean "newly
published dances" or "new to the group", but either would apply)

Coordinate a little bit with our neighbors in the Sacramento Branch;
they are the only other Branch nearby.

Committees of teachers make up all the Branch programmes, with input
from musicians on the ball programmes.

The classes vary widely as far as how much teachers use the dance
programmes - some teach to them very closely, others not much.

cheers, Alan Twhigg.

On Oct 1, 2007, at 2:24 AM, Ian Brockbank wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm not talking about Halloween masks...
>
> Having just been involved in a meeting putting together the programmes
> for the second half of the year, I'm curious what programmes look like
> around the world and how programmes are done.
>
> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?
> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?
> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)
> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian Brockbank
> Senior Applications Software Engineer
> e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
> scd: ian@scottishdance.net
> t: +44 131 272 7145
> f: +44 131 272 7001
>
>
>
>
> Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
> -------------------------------------------------
> This message and any attachments contain privileged and
> confidential information that is intended solely for the person(s)
> to whom it is addressed. If you are not an intended recipient you
> must not: read; copy; distribute; discuss; take any action in or
> make any reliance upon the contents of this message; nor open or
> read any attachment. If you have received this message in error,
> please notify us as soon as possible on the following telephone
> number and destroy this message including any attachments. Thank you.
> -------------------------------------------------
> Wolfson Microelectronics plc
> Tel: +44 (0)131 272 7000
> Fax: +44 (0)131 272 7001
> Web: www.wolfsonmicro.com
>
> Registered in Scotland
>
> Company number SC089839
>
> Registered office:
>
> Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK
>

Programme makeup

Message 49943 · Jerome Reinstein · 2 Oct 2007 12:26:30 · Top

Ian

A spread sheet of the collated answers you received from this posting would
indeed be interesting. Here are the answers for an affiliated group in
Chiswick, London and for the Paris Branch:

> From: Ian Brockbank <Ian.Brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com>

> Subject: Programme makeup

> How many dances do you have in a typical social programme? Ball
> programme?
Social: Chiswick 12; Paris 12
Ball: Chiswick 15; Paris 18
> What proportion of dances on a typical programme are published by the
> RSCDS?
Chiswick: 3/4; Paris 3/4
> How often do you put new non-RSCDS dances onto programmes?
Chiswick: seldom; Paris often
> How much coordination do you have with other groups in the region? (If
> this is a relevant question...)
Chiswick: look to London Branch for guidance; Paris none
> How much input do the teachers have to the programmes for the dances?
Both groups: MC's who are also teachers, make up the programmes and send for
comment to the committee
> How much do the teachers use the dance programmes to guide their
> classes?
Both groups: it's mostly the other way around - classes usually do the dance
first
>
> Cheers,

Jerry Reinstein
Chiswick Scottish Country Dance Club, London UK and RSCDS Paris Branch

Programme makeup

Message 49962 · John Chambers · 4 Oct 2007 02:33:21 · Top

Jerry Reinstein wrote:
| A spread sheet of the collated answers you received from this posting would
| indeed be interesting. Here are the answers for an affiliated group in
| Chiswick, London and for the Paris Branch:

This does remind me: I've seen an occasional list of the dances done
over a year or so in various areas, ordered by number of times each
dance was done. I haven't seen one of these in about two years. Has
anyone been collecting this data lately?

Such lists can be useful for letting leaders of groups know what
dances are "all the rage" at the moment. One of the useful things
about the RSCDS dances is that they are fairly consistent everywhere
in the world, which is nice for travellers. Keeping people aware of
what dances are being done elsewhere adds to this.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Programme makeup

Message 49967 · Christine Parker-Jones · 4 Oct 2007 09:13:15 · Top

We have put our branch programmes on the web since 1999 and publish the
count of the dances used, either in total or by year so people can see
what comes in and out of fashion.

http://www.rscdsleeds.org.uk/Popular.asp

Best Wishes

Christine

Christine Parker-Jones
Leeds Branch RSCDS
5, Larchwood
Woodlands Drive
Leeds
LS19 6JZ
Tel: 0113 250 8734

www.rscdsleeds.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-c.h.parker-jones=leeds.ac.uk@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-c.h.parker-jones=leeds.ac.uk@strathspey.org]
On Behalf Of John Chambers
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:33 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org; SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Programme makeup

Jerry Reinstein wrote:
| A spread sheet of the collated answers you received from this posting
would
| indeed be interesting. Here are the answers for an affiliated group in
| Chiswick, London and for the Paris Branch:

This does remind me: I've seen an occasional list of the dances done
over a year or so in various areas, ordered by number of times each
dance was done. I haven't seen one of these in about two years. Has
anyone been collecting this data lately?

Such lists can be useful for letting leaders of groups know what
dances are "all the rage" at the moment. One of the useful things
about the RSCDS dances is that they are fairly consistent everywhere
in the world, which is nice for travellers. Keeping people aware of
what dances are being done elsewhere adds to this.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Programme makeup

Message 49976 · ron.mackey · 4 Oct 2007 22:10:50 · Top

It was Diana Shipton of Houston who used to collate all the programmes
sent to her to produce lists but I haven't seen any for a year or so. Well,
maybe a few years - doesn't time fly when ... etc.
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 49990 · campbell · 5 Oct 2007 18:34:08 · Top

Ron wrote:
> It was Diana Shipton of Houston who used to collate all
> the programmes
> sent to her to produce lists but I haven't seen any for a
> year or so. Well,
> maybe a few years - doesn't time fly when ... etc.

Strangely enough, I corresponded with Diana in the last fortnight about her
list asking her if she was keeping it up to date. She says she no longer
has time. I was considering taking over the job, because I find it such a
useful resource, especially for those of us who don't have access to other
clubs' dances. Would people be interested and Anselm, would you host it on
Strathspey if I did it? I would need people to send me their dance
programmes because I wouldn't have the time to surf the net for programmes
as I think Diana did at one stage.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 49998 · Ian Brockbank · 8 Oct 2007 10:28:52 · Top

Hi Campbell,

> I was considering taking over the job, because I
> find it such a
> useful resource, especially for those of us who don't have
> access to other
> clubs' dances. Would people be interested and Anselm, would
> you host it on
> Strathspey if I did it? I would need people to send me their dance
> programmes because I wouldn't have the time to surf the net
> for programmes
> as I think Diana did at one stage.

I hosted Dianna's list on Grand Chain - you can still find the latest
update at http://www.scottishdance.net/scd/balldances/tabulation.html
(from
May 2000).

I'll send you the format she used privately - I've got a script which
runs
off this to generate the listing.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

Privacy & Confidentiality Notice
-------------------------------------------------
This message and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information that is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not an intended recipient you must not: read; copy; distribute; discuss; take any action in or make any reliance upon the contents of this message; nor open or read any attachment. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible on the following telephone number and destroy this message including any attachments. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------
Wolfson Microelectronics plc
Tel: +44 (0)131 272 7000
Fax: +44 (0)131 272 7001
Web: www.wolfsonmicro.com

Registered in Scotland

Company number SC089839

Registered office:

Westfield House, 26 Westfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QB, UK

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 50009 · campbell · 10 Oct 2007 17:23:03 · Top

Hi everyone,

Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
listings just yet please.

I would appreciate some suggestions as to what I capture. At present my
thoughts are that people give me the following information per event:
1 Name of organising body
2 Name of town, state/county/province and country in which the event was
held
3 Date of event
4 Number of people attending the event (as accurately as possible, but
estimate is okay)
5 Name of each dance on the programme

If I get all this information, then I can do a number of things, for
instance:
A Dances that have appeared most often on all events for which I have
information
B Dances that have appeared most often in a particular country, continent,
state, whatever
C Dances that are currently most popular*
D Top 20 strathspeys etc etc
E Comparisons between countries, continents, states, whatever

* "Popular" would be defined a bit like the rankings for golfers or tennis
players. In other words dances from current events would be allocated more
points than dances appearing on older events, and would also be weighted by
number of people attending the event. This would give a dynamic listing
showing how trends are moving as the months pass and give more importance to
major balls and less importance to social dances attended by just 20 people.
This would give different information to a historic tally of how often the
dances have appeared on programmes (as in A and B above).

Any thoughts? Further suggestions? I aim to kick off on 1 January 2008.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 50010 · Rod Downey · 10 Oct 2007 22:43:26 · Top

Hi all,

Loking at the discussion about make-up of ball/dance programmes
I think there is one aspect missing. Much of what we put on programmes
varies because of the very situation we are in for the groups we dance at.
I have danced all round the world, and have see I think the following
pattern.

At places like Wellington where I dance, there are many groups
and we have dances often, every 1-2-3 weeks for major dances, 4 hours
with about 18-20 dances. In that situation, the tendency is to include
many and mainly well-known (and likely rscds, Cosh, perhaps early
Drewry dances) to achieve some sort of continuity from one
dance to the next and to make them more social occasions. Groups
cannot, for instance, teach 18 complicated dances easily in two weeks
and it would be silly to anyway, and kind of anti-social.

My guess is that the above is also true in Scotland, but I cannot comment.

Other places I have danced, Singapore, Ithaca etc, ``The'' dance
is ``the'' social occasion that happens once a year, and
though groups such as Binghampton, Syracuse etc ``near'', say, Ithaca
all support each others dance, it seems that much time is
devoted to ``the'' dance and this forms a real basis for the
teaching programme for much of the year, so a programme can be much more
eclectic and complicated. In any case the dancers likely only need
to cope with a small number of formals a year, instead of 18+, not
counting smaller 2 hour ``tartan nights'' which occur all the time in
Wellington.
Here a couple of quite new dances is fine, but a whole programme
full of them is silly and nobody comes. After all the whole point is to
have a really fun night.

Thus I don't think there is any real formula we can apply to dances,
and their make-up. It depends on for whom and for what purpose the
dance is. Also with live musicians sometimes the choice of
programmes is determined by the range of the musicians.

However, I think round the world there seems a tendency to
have more complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
and not too vigorous,
as opposed to ones needing lots of technique, or very
vigorous dances.

thoughts

rod downey

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Campbell Tyler wrote:

> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:23:03 +0200
> From: Campbell Tyler <campbell@tyler.co.za>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: 'SCD news and discussion' <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: RE: Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
> popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
> Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
> listings just yet please.
>
> I would appreciate some suggestions as to what I capture. At present my
> thoughts are that people give me the following information per event:
> 1 Name of organising body
> 2 Name of town, state/county/province and country in which the event was
> held
> 3 Date of event
> 4 Number of people attending the event (as accurately as possible, but
> estimate is okay)
> 5 Name of each dance on the programme
>
> If I get all this information, then I can do a number of things, for
> instance:
> A Dances that have appeared most often on all events for which I have
> information
> B Dances that have appeared most often in a particular country, continent,
> state, whatever
> C Dances that are currently most popular*
> D Top 20 strathspeys etc etc
> E Comparisons between countries, continents, states, whatever
>
> * "Popular" would be defined a bit like the rankings for golfers or tennis
> players. In other words dances from current events would be allocated more
> points than dances appearing on older events, and would also be weighted by
> number of people attending the event. This would give a dynamic listing
> showing how trends are moving as the months pass and give more importance to
> major balls and less importance to social dances attended by just 20 people.
> This would give different information to a historic tally of how often the
> dances have appeared on programmes (as in A and B above).
>
> Any thoughts? Further suggestions? I aim to kick off on 1 January 2008.
>
> Campbell Tyler
> Cape Town
>
>

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 50012 · Jim Healy · 10 Oct 2007 23:47:36 · Top

Greetings!

Rod Downey suggests there are two different types of programmes. I do not quibble with his analysis. The fact that The Maharajah of Hackney's Pilgrimage to Auchtermuchty has only appeared on one dance/ball programme is not information that particularly interests me and I will not be rushing to find a copy of the instructions. However, if a dance which is new to me appears a reasonable number of times in fairly disparate locations, it would prompt me to investigate it.

I am on record as saying that too many dances are written but that does not mean that new gems are not welcome and I look forward to the renewal of the listing by Campbell to whom many thanks for the offer.

Jim


Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 50015 · ron.mackey · 11 Oct 2007 21:42:31 · Top

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Healy" <jimhealy@hotmail.com>

Greetings!

I am on record as saying that too many dances are written but that does not
mean that new gems are not welcome and I look forward to the renewal of the
listing by Campbell to whom many thanks for the offer.

Jim

On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they enjoy
doing it.
Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Why write new dances?

Message 50018 · Anselm Lingnau · 12 Oct 2007 11:10:54 · Top

Ron Mackey wrote:

> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
> enjoy doing it.

Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:

- To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.

- To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.

- To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
to light from the mud every so often.

I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
head.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
I believe the lack of security in Microsoft software was a deliberate business
decision. -- Robert X. Cringely, »The Death of TCP/IP«

Why write new dances?

Message 50019 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 12 Oct 2007 16:38:51 · Top

To Anselm's list I would add:

- To satisfy a creative urge on the part of the deviser

- To create an outlet for those who get part of their enjoyment of SCD from
the process of figuring out and mastering something unfamiliar.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

On 10/12/07, Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org> wrote:
>
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple
> hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the
> previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to
> mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the
> idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn
> Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a
> good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what
> one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction
> of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the
> trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the
> global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does
> not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new
> dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will
> come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
>
>

--
*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com Google, but
warm-blooded"
*****************************

Why write new dances?

Message 50022 · James Tween · 12 Oct 2007 18:44:51 · Top

There's also:

- To impress others in demonstrations, either in competition with other SCD,
to show off skill in a display or attract newcomers at a public event.

- To achieve a goal in teaching by having a specific dance to teach or
emphasise a specific point.

Cheers.

James
Preston, UK

Why write new dances?

Message 50020 · Bob McLatchie · 12 Oct 2007 18:06:31 · Top

Can I add a kind of "backward" reason to Anselm and Lara's lists?

I have found that since I started trying to write dances I look
differently at the dances we dance week by week. I like to think of ways
that existing dances could be tweaked, or changed radically, to make
them more interesting and enjoyable - at least for me. Up against the
great classics such as Bratach Bana and Belle of Bon Accord and
Polharrow Burn etc., I clearly don't make any headway but it does
increase my admiration for the craftsmanship/artistry of the original
writer. So I get more out of these dances than I did before.

I think this may be just a variant on the "pushing the envelope" reason.
As Lara says, it satisfies my creative urge to go on writing yet more
dances and I get more out of my dancing by doing so.

Regards

Bob
Oxfordshire, England

Anselm Lingnau wrote:
> Ron Mackey wrote:
>
>
>> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
>> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
>> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
>> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
>> enjoy doing it.
>>
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
> I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
> head.
>
> Anselm
>

Why write new dances?

Message 50023 · Andrew C Aitchison · 12 Oct 2007 22:07:59 · Top

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Bob McLatchie wrote:

> Can I add a kind of "backward" reason to Anselm and Lara's lists?
>
> I have found that since I started trying to write dances I look differently
> at the dances we dance week by week. I like to think of ways that existing
> dances could be tweaked, or changed radically, to make them more interesting
> and enjoyable - at least for me. Up against the great classics such as
> Bratach Bana and Belle of Bon Accord and Polharrow Burn etc., I clearly don't
> make any headway but it does increase my admiration for the
> craftsmanship/artistry of the original writer. So I get more out of these
> dances than I did before.

Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn, writing dances is
another way to improving ones understanding of existing dances ?

Why write new dances?

Message 50024 · Patricia Ruggiero · 12 Oct 2007 22:26:22 · Top

Andrew wrote:

> Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn,
> writing dances is another way to improving ones understanding of existing
dances ?

I agree. I started out in ECD, where phrasing isn't explained. By trying
my hand at writing dances (which, fortunately, still lie buried in my
folder), I learned the relationship of figures to bars of music. I also
discovered how figures can be combined to make a logical dance, and how they
can't or shouldn't. All told, the exercise gave me an understanding of
dance structure and phrasing.

I can say that "cross and cast" in two bars is NOT a good idea. And I
recall one dance I wrote, a longways triple minor, that had the 2d cpl
"captured" in some way (I forget how) by the 1st cpl such that the poor 2s
stayed with those 1s and never became 1s, no matter if they danced from now
till doomsday....

Pat (who is a much better gardener than dance devisor)
Charlottesville, Virginia USA

Why write new dances?

Message 50027 · ron.mackey · 13 Oct 2007 00:24:55 · Top

>
> Ah. So just as teaching is a good way to really learn, writing dances is
> another way to improving ones understanding of existing dances ?
>

Oh, but definately. The number of times one has a great idea but it
only fills the middle 16. The hard part is getting into position in the
first eight and finishing in a better way than 'now get out of that'!

There used to be (is) a 20s song that went something like
If you want to write a song
********
here's a way you can't go wrong
*****
first you get the inspiration
- that's not hard to find -
all the rest is perspiration
as you write each line!

Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Why write new dances?

Message 50021 · simon scott · 12 Oct 2007 18:50:25 · Top

I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
head.

Anselm

Off the top of a very fine head, I might add.
Your words and wisdom are always well received, Anselm.

Simon
Vancouver

Why write new dances?

Message 50025 · Rod Downey · 13 Oct 2007 00:08:52 · Top

same question: why have new music? why have new songs etc.

but another reason for my own devising of dances in the last years
has been for teaching. If we stuck with the trad RSCDS ones there are
not too many good dances for beginners I think (Beware the children's
book) whereas there are a reasonable number of nice beginner
dances written
late 20th century and early 21st such as those by Iain Boyd
and Bob McMurtry etc. What I am thinking of here is a dance where
we are trying to teach a particular formation, say, and want no
other problems to interfere with that point.

Also think of the lovely new formations which have come in some modern
dances such as the espanol, corners pass and turn etc.

best

rod

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Anselm Lingnau wrote:

> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:10:54 +0200
> From: Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Why write new dances? (was: Popular dance list)
>
> Ron Mackey wrote:
>
>> On that comment about the number of dances I recall my wife asking why
>> everyone kept on writing them. My reply then is that we were all trying to
>> write another such as Neidpath Castle. Most painters who will never make
>> the National Exhibition but that won't stop them painting because they
>> enjoy doing it.
>
> Here are a few more possible reasons for writing new dances:
>
> - To keep the tradition going. We could say that there are a couple hundred
> perfectly workable dances left from the 18th century and that no new
> dances are required as there are millions of programmes that could be
> selected from those dances only. However, biologists have a term for
> things that stay the same all the time. They call them »dead«.
>
> - To push the envelope. If we had stuck with the dances from the previous
> paragraph, we wouldn't have dances like Mairi's Wedding, Ian Powrie's
> Farewell to Auchterarder, or the Dundee City Police Jig, all of which
> contain ideas that do not occur in the old material at all. Not to mention
> the output of the greatest envelope pusher of them all -- like the idea of
> five-couple dances, the Waverley Fugues, the Celtic Brooch, Cairn Edward,
> or the Wee Cooper. Not everything that people try turns out to be a good
> idea, but trying is what it is all about. It does not matter if what one
> tries does not end up in the RSCDS dancers' magazine; the satisfaction of
> having tried something and seen it work can be quite worth the trouble.
>
> - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
> other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
> list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
> upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
> take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
> and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
> to light from the mud every so often.
>
> I'm sure other people can add to this list. This is just off the top of my
> head.
>
> Anselm
> --
> Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
> I believe the lack of security in Microsoft software was a deliberate business
> decision. -- Robert X. Cringely, »The Death of TCP/IP«
>

Why write new dances?

Message 50028 · ron.mackey · 13 Oct 2007 00:36:02 · Top

whereas there are a reasonable number of nice beginner
dances written
late 20th century and early 21st such as those by Iain Boyd
and Bob McMurtry etc. What I am thinking of here is a dance where
we are trying to teach a particular formation, say, and want no
other problems to interfere with that point.

and Roy Goldring, Alex Hay, Dorothy Bell etc. etc.
The books of dances you need are out there. It's just a question of reading
through them and sorting them out. Maybe for something on the lines of
DanceData but with a grading of each dance and the overall book. Anyone
just retired with time to spare - - oh, sorry, everyone who has retired is
too busy! :)

Incidentally, DanceData can give quite a good idea of the grade of a
dance if you read between the symbols. - sort of ....
Happy Dancing

Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon & International Branches

Why write new dances?

Message 50032 · Jock McVlug · 13 Oct 2007 23:51:08 · Top

Nobody has mentioned yet that necessity is sometimes the reason. I've found
that it works best with the elementary grades if the 'new' formation is
danced at the very start of the Dance. Then too, the progression in the
dance has to work equally well for 3, 4, or 5 pair sets. I have long ago
given up going through the 12,000 or so dances already in print to look for
enough dances to fit my requirements. Easier to make one up!
And for our adult group we need Dances for Burn's night demo's that our 'all
levels' class can do. I like a medley to knock off the strathspey and
reel/jig, which then only leaves one more to do. There are not a lot of
suitable medleys thus make up another one.

Jack in Beautiful British Columbia

Why write new dances?

Message 50026 · ron.mackey · 13 Oct 2007 00:18:08 · Top

That is a nice list, Anselm. Must dig out a few and try them again.Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Why write new dances?

Message 50029 · John Chambers · 13 Oct 2007 00:01:22 · Top

Anselm wrote:
| - To make people happy. I've written a bunch of dances for weddings and
| other special occasions, and while they are unlikely to make the global
| list of all-time favourites, they did their duty when they were called
| upon, and on and off afterwards too (some of them, anyway). It does not
| take special training or official permission to come up with new dances,
| and if people are encouraged to try things, maybe the odd jewel will come
| to light from the mud every so often.

It's likely that the guys who wrote Mairi's Wedding (the song or the
dance) didn't expect that they would catch on like they did, or that
mass-media publications would have articles about them when Mary had
her 90th birthday a decade or so ago.

You never know what will catch people's fancy.

--
Key: 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

Classification

Message 50048 · Martin Sheffield · 16 Oct 2007 17:00:58 · Top

Le 10 oct. 07 à 22h43, Rod Downey a écrit :

> I think round the world there seems a tendency to
> have
(a)
> complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
> and not too vigorous,

(b)
> ones needing lots of technique,

(c)
> very vigorous dances.

I cannot understand this manner of classifying SCDs (excluding
Highland dances)

I would have thought complexity required greater precision in
phrasing, not less.

I cannot see why one dance needs more technique than another, unless
it has awkward moves & changes of direction.

For me, a dance is not vigorous, though an individual's style of
dancing may be -- or may not.

A dance such as "Pines pf Pitlochry" (8x48) may be tiring, as there
is a lot of setting & not much rest to get your breath back, but the
young and athletic could perform it vigorously -- or not, depending
how they feel at that point. The elderly, may not have that choice,
of course.

We could say, certain tiring dances should be kept to a minimum on
social programs.
I hope no-one ever says, vigorous dancing should be kept to a minimum!!!

I have probably misunderstood Rod's meaning.

Martin

Classification

Message 50049 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 16 Oct 2007 17:23:41 · Top

My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
scratch.

Classification

Message 50050 · Sarah Wolfe · 16 Oct 2007 17:34:17 · Top

not sure how i got on this mailing list. I believe my e-mail account was
hacked. I don't know who to ask, but is thre any way to be removed from this
mailing list.
Thanks,
Sarah Wolfe

On 10/16/07, GOSS9@telefonica.net <GOSS9@telefonica.net> wrote:
>
> My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
> number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
> complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
> know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
> others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
> scratch.
>
>
>

Classification

Message 50052 · Rod Downey · 16 Oct 2007 22:14:10 · Top

Hi Martin,

I am sorry I was a bit unclear. It seems to me that the hallmark
of most dances we see on programmes are that they are ``flowing''
To my mind being ``complicated'' does not often need much technique.
Examples The Bees of Maggieknockater, Ian Powrie's Farewell to
Auchterarder, Kilkenny Castle, etc. They are great fun and certainly
require a good sense of geography, but personally I think that
they need almost no phrasing and no anticipation of direction
changes. This is true of many of the easier ``flowing'' dances
of the modern era along the lines of Mairi's Wedding (incidentally that's
why I think people like the R shoulder rather than
the left as they have trouble controlling their steps, but
please don't start that one again) or A trip to Bavaria or many of Roy
Goldring's dances. They are all fun and certainly
very social but to me they are
often what I
think of as ``track dances''. Remember the track and stick to it.
They are all nice on programmes but I get a bit bored dancing
this kind of dance all the time, but I think they have become the norm.
I like to try to put one or two that perhaps need a little more
dancing to be able to do them.

Many old dances which I love require what I think of as technique.
Anticipatory phrasing and intersting linkages. Examples Peggy's Love,
Up in the Air, The Bawk, Fairly Shot o' Her, Fraser's Favourite,
maybe The Gates of Edinburgh, or enev a ``simple'' dance like
The Braes of Breadalbane, or more
difficult ones like The Seagull or Bob Sanders
the last which are technique dances, only for classes,
and rightfully so.
But it is
fun to challenge yourself with technique.

I also believe that with people aging that there has been a tendency
to have fewer vigorous dances on programmes, Hamilton Rant, Petronella,
anything with Hello and Goodbye setting.

Maybe mostly what really matters is having really good music.

Anyway it would be a boring world if we all liked the same things.

best

rod

PS all that said and done, when I write dances myself
I try to make them more flowing I guess.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Martin Sheffield wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:00:58 +0200
> From: Martin Sheffield <mj.sheffield@orange.fr>
> Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Classification (was: Popular dance list)
>
>
> Le 10 oct. 07 à 22h43, Rod Downey a écrit :
>
>> I think round the world there seems a tendency to
>> have
> (a)
>> complicated dances with little phrasing necessary,
>> and not too vigorous,
>
> (b)
>> ones needing lots of technique,
>
> (c)
>> very vigorous dances.
>
> I cannot understand this manner of classifying SCDs (excluding Highland
> dances)
>
> I would have thought complexity required greater precision in phrasing, not
> less.
>
> I cannot see why one dance needs more technique than another, unless it has
> awkward moves & changes of direction.
>
> For me, a dance is not vigorous, though an individual's style of dancing may
> be -- or may not.
>
> A dance such as "Pines pf Pitlochry" (8x48) may be tiring, as there is a lot
> of setting & not much rest to get your breath back, but the young and
> athletic could perform it vigorously -- or not, depending how they feel at
> that point. The elderly, may not have that choice, of course.
>
> We could say, certain tiring dances should be kept to a minimum on social
> programs.
> I hope no-one ever says, vigorous dancing should be kept to a minimum!!!
>
> I have probably misunderstood Rod's meaning.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Classification

Message 50055 · Andrew Buxton · 17 Oct 2007 12:08:30 · Top

Well the Kelpie is a 14-point dance and off your scale!

Andrew

-----
Andrew Buxton
Lewes, East Sussex, UK

----- Original Message ----
From: "GOSS9@telefonica.net" <GOSS9@telefonica.net>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October, 2007 4:23:41 PM
Subject: Re: Classification (was: Popular dance list)

My personal, and very subject system was a 8 point scale, based on the
number of dancers without a clue and set could tolerate and still
complete the dance. Very difficult was an 8 because all 8 would have to
know the dance. DWS was a 2 because one of each threesome can get the
others´s through. A zero would be a dance that can be called from
scratch.

___________________________________________________________
Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html

Popular dance list

Message 50011 · ron.mackey · 10 Oct 2007 23:17:27 · Top

Hi, Campbell

What I used to do with Diana was to send scans of the dance programmes
as published in The Reel and the Croydon Branch Newsletter and she put it
all in her list.
Would this still do for you?

Regards

Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham

London, Croydon & International Branches

Popular dance list (was Programme makeup)

Message 50013 · 0AM7L@SIA · 11 Oct 2007 03:29:10 · Top

Thank you for doing this!

The Sarna's from Michigan

On 10/10/07 11:23 AM, "Campbell Tyler" <campbell@tyler.co.za> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Well, there seems to be some support for resurrecting this listing of
> popular dances. In fact, I have already received some dance listings.
> Thanks, but before I get started I want to put a few things in place. So no
> listings just yet please.

Frequent dances update

Message 58350 · campbell · 7 Apr 2010 20:43:37 · Top

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

Frequent dances update

Message 58351 · Bruce Herbold · 7 Apr 2010 21:10:44 · Top

Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.

I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.

Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
(and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
dances.

But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.

the old curmudgeon
aka Bruce Herbold
San Francisco
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

--
Bruce Herbold

Frequent dances update

Message 58352 · Patricia Ruggiero · 7 Apr 2010 22:00:54 · Top

Bruce wrote:
> Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
> the old curmudgeon

From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/

General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
groups.

The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
typical for this region.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Frequent dances update

Message 58353 · Lee Fuell · 7 Apr 2010 22:44:46 · Top

This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:

http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm

You'll find a quicktime pousette, set to & turn corners/reels of three, double triangles, and an allemande, all by specific intent. No set to corners and partner this time, darn it all. Can't get all the oldies-but-goodies in the same program, but we do try to get a good selection of them.

Lee

Beavercreek, OH, USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Apr 7, 2010 4:00 PM
>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>Subject: RE: Frequent dances update
>
>Bruce wrote:
>> Look at current programs --
>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>
>> the old curmudgeon
>
>
>From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>
>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>groups.
>
>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
>typical for this region.
>
>Pat
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>USA
>

Frequent dances update

Message 58354 · Bruce Herbold · 7 Apr 2010 23:16:49 · Top

and to your north, the Canadian programs contain a variety of figures,
but scan programs from around the world (many that have been posted
here) and it is often a stew of half reels of three and four every
which way, with the occasional allemand or rights and lefts thrown in
as a sop to the beginners.

Fun to see that in Japan the favorite dance is that most traditional
Scottish tune and dance -- Deil amang the Tailors.

I live in hope that by preaching to the choir loudly enough I'll
change the path of the rest of the world.

Bruce Herbold
San Francisco

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Lee Fuell <fuell@mindspring.com> wrote:
> This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:
>
> http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm
>
> You'll find a quicktime pousette, set to & turn corners/reels of three, double triangles, and an allemande, all by specific intent.  No set to corners and partner this time, darn it all.  Can't get all the oldies-but-goodies in the same program, but we do try to get a good selection of them.
>
> Lee
>
> Beavercreek, OH, USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@earthlink.net>
>>Sent: Apr 7, 2010 4:00 PM
>>To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>Subject: RE: Frequent dances update
>>
>>Bruce wrote:
>>> Look at current programs --
>>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>>
>>> the old curmudgeon
>>
>>
> >From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>>
>>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie.  All of these appear regularly on programs in
>>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>>groups.
>>
>>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>>Plenty of PdB throughout.  In short, the programs for this weekend are
>>typical for this region.
>>
>>Pat
>>Charlottesville, Virginia
>>USA
>>
>
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Frequent dances update

Message 58361 · Patricia Ruggiero · 8 Apr 2010 04:16:57 · Top

Bruce wrote:

> I live in hope that by preaching to the choir loudly enough I'll
> change the path of the rest of the world.

This curmudgeon has only one response to that: !!!!!!!

Pat

Frequent dances update

Message 58363 · Patricia Ruggiero · 8 Apr 2010 04:16:57 · Top

Lee wrote,

> This thread is rapidly becoming a curmudgeon convention; I'm jumping on
> board with the ball program for the Flying Ghillies Workshop & Ball in
> Dayton, Ohio on June 5th (Dayton is in that big amorphous middle of the
> USA that isn't on either the Atlantic or Pacific coasts); see:
>
> http://www.rscdscincinnati.org/FlyingGhillies/render.php?page=Workshop.htm

Same day as our Lake Sherando party and picnic. http://mhscd.avenue.org/Sherando_10_brochure1.htm

And Monymusk is on the program....played by Liz Donaldson and David Knight, it will be nigh unto perfect!

(Are you and Patty coming east for Capital Weekend?)

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Frequent dances update

Message 58389 · Rod Downey · 9 Apr 2010 04:24:31 · Top

Sorry all,

one last thought on this topic.

One factor which has not been discussed here is how the spread of SCD
throughout the world might have affected things. By this I mean
that here in wellington, for instance, we are blessed by having many
groups. The effect of this would be that when a tutor is devising a
programme they will be aware that there are likely many dancers coming
to the dance who don't dance at the local group. Moreover there will
be many dances occurring that year in wellington. (maybe 10+).
I would argue that this would tend to make one pretty conservative about
what to include, and that such is likely to happen at any place
where lots of local dances occur. Surely this is what happened in
the 50's, say. (Here the teachers got together and agreed
on a list of dances most of the program should include for this reason.)

Now I have also danced in lots of places in, e.g. the midwest, uspate New
York, which are quite isolated.
In such places, the Ball is really a big deal and the local group puts
a huge amount of effort and practice into the dances, but they are
definitely more for themselves. They are, of course, well supported by
the other isolated groups who travel as best as they can, but this would
surely make the dance more slanted to the local group, and their own
favourites.

Maybe this does not account for the lack of hello-goodbye but might
explain why more complex dances might be chosen.

One other thing. I hear all this stuff about how now we are all so
enfeebled that set to and turn corners seems impossible.
I looked that the programmes here from the 60's and they were very
energetic (Hamilton House etc) with 25-30 dances (!) in a night.
What did the old people do then? Were there none? Or is the claim
that this is a greedy generation thing: that is in those days the
weight of dancers were young and they all wanted petronella till you drop,
and now the weight are old so that they all want to dance only skip
change. I don't know. I was not there in the 60's but there sure seem
to be old people in the photos. Were they only there for the tea?

best

rod

Frequent dances update

Message 58396 · Martin Campoveja · 9 Apr 2010 10:55:20 · Top

Rod asked:
>

> I looked that the programmes here from the 60's and they were very
> energetic (Hamilton House etc) with 25-30 dances (!) in a night.

I was there in the 60s, and the other dancers seemed to be quite old -- to
me, in my late teens. I think in fact my own parents in their 40s were
typical at that time.

Perhaps the key word is one that Rod used:
Weight.
People were normally slim and used to using their own two feet in those
days, thus had little difficulty in getting through a good range of dances
in an evening, including all those old dances with a poussettte?

Martin

Frequent dances update

Message 58359 · Noel Chavez · 8 Apr 2010 03:54:45 · Top

Hello, all. I'd also add that there is a similar pattern for the Midwest
Weekend Workshop programs
(<http://sites.google.com/site/midwestscottishweekend/>http://sites.google.com/site/midwestscottishweekend/),
organized jointly by dancers from Chicago, Madison, WI and Milwaukee, WI
for early June. Noel Chavez, Chicago
.
At 03:00 PM 4/7/2010, you wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
> > Look at current programs --
> > away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> > programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
> >
> > the old curmudgeon
>
>
> >From one curmudgeon to another: Yes, I do see us doing fewer of the older
>RSCDS dances but have a look at Capital Weekend programs (this coming Friday
>and Saturday): http://www.capitalweekend.org/
>
>General Stuart's Reel is there, as is my favorite, Monymusk; also Flowers of
>Edinburgh and Sleepy Maggie. All of these appear regularly on programs in
>the Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Charlottesville
>groups.
>
>The quicktime poussette is there, also double triangles (in the same dance!)
>Plenty of PdB throughout. In short, the programs for this weekend are
>typical for this region.
>
>Pat
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>USA

Frequent dances update

Message 58356 · Rod Downey · 8 Apr 2010 01:25:05 · Top

Hi Bruce,

I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
arena (formations) from data which is collected about another
(formations).
This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.

My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
Same Gait for set and link for 3.

It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
the don't make the ``top 50''.
Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
triangles.

Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
patterns not found in other dances.

The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?

I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
about other things without more data.

best

rod downey

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
> Subject: Frequent dances update
>
> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>
> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
> with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>
> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
> participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
> popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
> dances.
>
> But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
> the old curmudgeon
> aka Bruce Herbold
> San Francisco
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Frequent dances update

Message 58357 · Bruce Herbold · 8 Apr 2010 01:37:07 · Top

I agree that with the multitude of pousette dances out there they
could be cycled through and never make the top 50. It *could* be so,
but it isn't. Campbell's list prompted me to look at actual programs
out there, and many many many programs are lacking the standard
figures I mentioned -- not just the list of 50 most popular dances.
Conversely, there is no shortage of rights and lefts Hooper's Jig,
Machine without Horse and Wild Geese are all on the top 50 list even
though they are probably seldom on the same program. Likewise the top
50 list contains multiple allemands in both Strathspey and fast time.

I invite you to scan programs and verify for yourself the
disappearance of many of the trad figures of SCD. Even RSCDS Summer
School -- with a different assortment of RSCDS dances each night did
only one pousette in an entire week of dancing last summer, no double
triangles, no hello/goodbye and one strathspey set and turn corners.

still concerned and curmudgeonly,
Bruce Herbold
San Francisco

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Rod Downey <Rod.Downey@msor.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
> arena (formations) from data which is collected about another (formations).
> This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.
>
> My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
> corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
> Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
> then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
> Same Gait for set and link for 3.
>
> It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
> with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
> the don't make the ``top 50''.
> Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
> triangles.
>
>
> Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
> basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
> choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
> The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
> patterns not found in other dances.
>
> The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
> towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
> flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
> repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
> Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
> so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
> that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?
>
> I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
> about other things without more data.
>
>
>
> best
>
> rod downey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
>> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>> Subject: Frequent dances update
>>
>> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
>> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
>> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>>
>> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
>> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs.  With the
>> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
>> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50.  We continue to have no dance
>> with fast time pousettes or double triangles.  And Duke of Perth is
>> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>>
>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
>> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
>> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
>> participation by more youth now?  Petronella is far and way the most
>> popular dance in our SF youth groups).  But H&G and S&T both occur in
>> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
>> dances.
>>
>> But it isn't just the 50 most popular.  Look at current programs --
>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>
>> the old curmudgeon
>> aka Bruce Herbold
>> San Francisco
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>

--
Bruce Herbold

Frequent dances update

Message 58358 · Rod Downey · 8 Apr 2010 02:56:28 · Top

Hi Bruce,

I have not seen the actual dances in his database. It would
certainly not be the case in New Zealand.
For example below is the link
to the events in wellington and you can see from the programmes
lots of standard formations

http://rscds.wellington.net.nz/short/events.htm

whatever happened to the ``big grid'' where you ee if formations are
included, and not too many circles etc.

best

rod

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 16:37:07 -0700
> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: Frequent dances update
>
> I agree that with the multitude of pousette dances out there they
> could be cycled through and never make the top 50. It *could* be so,
> but it isn't. Campbell's list prompted me to look at actual programs
> out there, and many many many programs are lacking the standard
> figures I mentioned -- not just the list of 50 most popular dances.
> Conversely, there is no shortage of rights and lefts Hooper's Jig,
> Machine without Horse and Wild Geese are all on the top 50 list even
> though they are probably seldom on the same program. Likewise the top
> 50 list contains multiple allemands in both Strathspey and fast time.
>
> I invite you to scan programs and verify for yourself the
> disappearance of many of the trad figures of SCD. Even RSCDS Summer
> School -- with a different assortment of RSCDS dances each night did
> only one pousette in an entire week of dancing last summer, no double
> triangles, no hello/goodbye and one strathspey set and turn corners.
>
> still concerned and curmudgeonly,
> Bruce Herbold
> San Francisco
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Rod Downey <Rod.Downey@msor.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> I think we need to be careful about making conclusions about one
>> arena (formations) from data which is collected about another (formations).
>> This is not a collection of the 50 popular formations.
>>
>> My point is that if we want to put on the programme a dance with a
>> corners chain, then we would almost certainly put Laird of
>> Milton't Daughter. If we wished one with Montgomeries Rant setting,
>> then likely it would be Montgomeries Rant, similarly Gang the
>> Same Gait for set and link for 3.
>>
>> It *could* be that there are one or even 2 dances on programmes
>> with poussettes in quicktime but there are millions to choose from, so
>> the don't make the ``top 50''.
>> Similarly Allemande and other standard formations like double
>> triangles.
>>
>>
>> Another point is that it *could* be that there are lots of
>> basic dances with basic formations used, and yet people don't
>> choose the *same* ones which would be necessary to make the top 50.
>> The top 50 would more likely be more special dances with unique
>> patterns not found in other dances.
>>
>> The last point, made previously, I know when making up a programme
>> towards the end I am always looking for a short strathspey to keep the
>> flow of the night going. Not too many to choose from from the general
>> repertoire, Neidpath Castle, Minister on the Loch, Robertson rant,
>> Dreamcatcher, maybe Loch Fyne (but would you do this at the end?)
>> so it is hardly surprising that they appear. But do we make the conclusion
>> that we prefer to do 3 couple strathspeys?
>>
>> I think the list is what it is and we should make no conclusions
>> about other things without more data.
>>
>>
>>
>> best
>>
>> rod downey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Bruce Herbold wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:10:44 -0700
>>> From: Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: strathspey@strathspey.org
>>> To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>>> Subject: Frequent dances update
>>>
>>> Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's
>>> email in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future
>>> and to dull the rage of our dear adminstrator.
>>>
>>> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
>>> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs.  With the
>>> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
>>> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50.  We continue to have no dance
>>> with fast time pousettes or double triangles.  And Duke of Perth is
>>> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>>>
>>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
>>> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
>>> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
>>> participation by more youth now?  Petronella is far and way the most
>>> popular dance in our SF youth groups).  But H&G and S&T both occur in
>>> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
>>> dances.
>>>
>>> But it isn't just the 50 most popular.  Look at current programs --
>>> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
>>> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>>>
>>> the old curmudgeon
>>> aka Bruce Herbold
>>> San Francisco
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Herbold
>

Frequent dances update

Message 58369 · Chris Ronald · 8 Apr 2010 18:13:53 · Top

Bruce Herbold wrote....

"...we now have no dance with Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We
continue to have no dance with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And
Duke of Perth is the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.

>
>> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population (and
>> I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did more of the
>> dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage participation by more
>> youth now? Petronella is far and way the most popular dance in our SF youth
>> groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in strathspey time as well and no
>> examples are on the list of 50 popular dances."
>>
>
One issue may be the age of dancers, but I doubt that's the full story.
Though I have no data to back it up, my impression is that in the UK there
is a trend away from dances with the "traditional" RSCDS formations to
dances with more intricate choreography. Could it be that dancers are
looking for something more challenging to the mind?

But I suspect dancers are also looking for dances that are less punishing on
the body. No-one has mentioned the quality of floors, but quite often I
find myself at dances where the floor is not made of sprung wood. This is
inevitable because finding sprung wood floors is getting more and more
difficult, at least in the places where I dance, so to keep costs down
groups resort to harder floors. This may also help explain the trend away
from dances with pas-de-basque.

In New York we are lucky enough to have wonderful floors for our weekend
workshop (21-23 May this year) and we do have quite a full range of
formations on the Friday and Saturday dance programmes, as you can see at
www.rscdsnewyork.org.

Please consider joining us!!

Chris, New York.

PS. Campbell, I'll email you the programmes separately.

Frequent dances update

Message 58360 · Patricia Ruggiero · 8 Apr 2010 04:16:57 · Top

Campbell, while we're on the subject, here's a link to the Silver Thistle
Weekend in Richmond, Virginia (USA).

http://scd-richmond.org/SilverThistleBall.html

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Frequent dances update

Message 58365 · campbell · 8 Apr 2010 09:48:58 · Top

Bruce wrote:
Since I adore this work (Thanks Campbell), I am including Campbell's email
in a new topic line so I can find it on the server in the future and to dull
the rage of our dear adminstrator. I will point out that we are getting
further and further away from a lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our
programs.

I am delighted that this latest list has sparked this debate. (And also some
more programme contributions.) Perhaps I will see an upsurge in such dances
on programmes in the future (as I did see a temporary upsurge in Monymusk on
programmes a couple of months ago, elevating it to the giddy heights of
93!). I have negotiated with the International Branch to allow me to put
some more extensive lists on their website and I hope to get those off to
them this weekend. Just two explanations about the list - firstly that I
submitted the list twice as a new thread and it didn't appear. Has anyone
else had that problem when starting a new thread?

The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website for
programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to send me the
programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go to the website, but
in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes that are sent than to trawl
websites and check out whether there are new programmes there or not. And
as I only have so much time to do this, I always have a backlog of
programmes to capture so I hardly ever get to the websites. But the other
point about this is that one of the real bonuses of doing this work is the
contacts that I make with people from around the world. I am having a
delightful conversation with Mayumi Nagamine from Saitama in Japan, have got
to know Jean Deacon in Melbourne, Sue Petyt is a regular contributor from
the Lockerbie area, Bruce of course from San Francisco, Maureen Daniel from
Glasgow, Ian Brown from the Harrogate area, John Marshall from Cheltenham,
etc etc, over 70 people are in contact with me with programmes, sometimes
only once a year when they are a small or isolated group only holding a
dance annually, others regularly where they are in an area with lots of
clubs holding lots of dances. This is what makes the work so rewarding. So
please forgive me if I don't get to your website to extract your programmes,
perhaps when I retire I will be more diligent on that score, but for now a
huge thank you to those who send me programmes, also telling me how many
people were at the dance.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Herbold [mailto:bherbold@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 April 2010 09:11 PM
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Frequent dances update

With the descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance with fast
time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is the sole dance
with set to and turn corners in it.

Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population (and I
ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did more of the
dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage participation by more
youth now? Petronella is far and way the most popular dance in our SF youth
groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in strathspey time as well and no
examples are on the list of 50 popular dances.

But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs -- away
from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find programs
without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.

the old curmudgeon
aka Bruce Herbold
San Francisco
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our list commandant, I am using an old
thread as a means of getting this published, having failed twice before.

Here I am again with the latest list after 600 programmes captured. Reaching
600 programmes means that dances now have to appear on at least 51 of those
to make the top 50. There are now 1190 dances on my database, 559 of which
have only appeared on one programme.

Naturally I am getting most programmes from Scotland and England (171 and
169 respectively) USA and Australia are next (87 and 69). Europe, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan are growing too. Thanks again to all who have
contributed, or commented and encouraged me to continue. I have come to
know some interesting people worldwide through this exercise. Now what I
would really like to do is go and visit them all and dance with them!

Since last I reported, Montgomeries Rant has swopped places with Pelorus
Jack at the top, with Mairis Wedding sandwiched between them. These three
are way ahead of the rest, with Montgomeries opening a sizable gap.
Otherwise the list is stable, with the exception of the Lavendar Ladies Miss
Gibson and Miss Milligan, who have been arguing between themselves heatedly
and in the process moving up the list steadily for a long time. They are now
in 44 and 45 respectively, swopping continuously. Because of this stability
I have been provided with the feature of selecting programmes by date, so I
am able to compare 2008 with 2009 for instance. I have also taken to
tracking newer dances. So for instance the Homecoming Dance is moving
steadily up the table, currently at 186. Capital Jig is 214 and the
Valentine at 406. An interesting one is Eightsome Reel, up from 305 to 216,
perhaps as a result of more ceilidh dances coming into programmes, to
attract newcomers?

Top Scottish and English dances - Mairis Wedding and Montgomeries Rant, USA
- Silver Tassie, Australia - Minister on the Loch, then Laird of Miltons
Daughter, New Zealand - Pelorus Jack (surprise!), Japan - De'il Amang the
Tailors.

If anyone wants particular information about any dance, or wants me to track
it, please let me know. The information is here.

Regards

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

The top 50 are (previous positions after):

1 Montgomeries Rant 3
2 Mairis Wedding 2
3 Pelorus Jack 1
4 Minister on the Loch 4
5 Maxwells Rant 7
6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
9 Hoopers Jig 8
10 Joie de Vivre 9
11 Bratach Bana 12
12 Irish Rover 10
13 Wild Geese 13
14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
16 Neidpath Castle 14
17 Dream Catcher 16
18 Catch the Wind 23
19 Machine without Horses 24
20 Sugar Candie 19
21 Sailor 18
22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
26 Napier's Index 29
27 Silver Tassie 28
28 Gang The Same Gate 22
29 Gentleman 30
30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
31 Quarries Jig 38
32 Tribute to the Borders 33
33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
34 Robertson Rant 39
35 EH37AF 31
36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
37 Polharrow Burn 32
38 Culla Bay 34
39 Piper and the Penguin 36
40 Duke of Perth 42
41 Clutha 40
42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
46 Posties Jig 53
47 Trip to Bavaria 45
48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
49 White Heather Jig 48
50 John of Bon Accord 50

The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.

--
Bruce Herbold

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database 5008 (20100407) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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Frequent dances update

Message 58372 · Patricia Ruggiero · 8 Apr 2010 18:42:29 · Top

Campbell wrote:

> The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website for
> programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to send me the
> programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go to the website,
> but
> in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes that are sent than to
> trawl
> websites and check out whether there are new programmes there or not

OK, this technodud needs to ask what does it mean, exactly, to send you the
programs, as opposed to giving you the link to them?

When I send you a link to, say, our Lake Sherando dance, am I making things
easy for you, or just supplying you with more information than you can
handle right now?

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

Frequent dances update

Message 58420 · campbell · 10 Apr 2010 20:55:24 · Top

I wrote:

> The second is to say that a number of people point me to their website
> for programmes. I appreciate that many people do not have time to
> send me the programmes and it would appear so easy for me to just go
> to the website, but in fact it is a lot faster to capture programmes
> that are sent than to trawl websites and check out whether there are
> new programmes there or not

So Pat wrote:
>OK, this technodud needs to ask what does it mean, exactly, to send you the
programs, as opposed to giving you the link to them?
>When I send you a link to, say, our Lake Sherando dance, am I making things
easy for you, or just supplying you with more information than you can
handle right now?

The best thing for me is if someone sends me the dance programme as an
attachment to the email (or imbedded in it), which should include the name
of the organising group, the date of the dance, and if possible the
approximate number of people attending. Nearly all my time is spent
capturing these programmes. Failing that, the next best is if you send me
a link to where the programme is on the web (hopefully the other information
will be there too). I do occasionally have time (and hopefully am connected
to the web at that point*) to capture those. The last is to send me a link
to your club website and tell me to check there regularly for new
programmes. So far I have not yet had time to follow any of these leads.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

* Here in South Africa bandwidth is quite expensive and many people are
still ocnnected by dial-up. I am dependent on my landlord's wireless
connection which is only accesible from certain points in my place and
specifically not from my desk, so it means specially moving to the place
where I can connect. Much easier to work through emails.

Frequent dances update

Message 58541 · campbell · 3 May 2010 09:18:04 · Top

Good day everyone,

I am pleased to be able to say that the International Branch has kindly
hosted my frequent dances lists and they have just published them. Their
website address is www.rscds-ib.org and you will find the lists if you click
on "Campbell's Lists". Again, without my contributors I could not do them,
so thanks to you all!

In dancing

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Frequent dances update

Message 58504 · Lara Friedman-Shedlov · 26 Apr 2010 23:14:19 · Top

I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating, but we have to keep
it in perspective: Just because dances are in the top 50 doesn't mean they
are the only dances appearing on programs. It just means there is a core
group of dances that appearing over and over. Just because dances with
pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting aren't in the top 50 doesn't
mean they aren't appearing on programs. I know that our ball programs
almost always include at least two (if not all) of the figures hello-goodbye
setting, double triangles, and poussette. It just happens that there is no
single dance featuring one of those figures which we use over and over.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the average
program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

*****************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov
lfriedmanshedlov@gmail.com

*****************************

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Bruce Herbold <bherbold@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I will point out that we are getting further and further away from a
> lot of the traditional figures of SCD in our programs. With the
> descent of General Stuart's Reel we now have no dance with
> Hello&goodbye setting in the top 50. We continue to have no dance
> with fast time pousettes or double triangles. And Duke of Perth is
> the sole dance with set to and turn corners in it.
>
> Part of this may be an aversion to pdB amongst our greying population
> (and I ask again if that isn't a self-fulfilling condition, if we did
> more of the dances we enjoyed in our youth might we not encourage
> participation by more youth now? Petronella is far and way the most
> popular dance in our SF youth groups). But H&G and S&T both occur in
> strathspey time as well and no examples are on the list of 50 popular
> dances.
>
> But it isn't just the 50 most popular. Look at current programs --
> away from the Boston and San Francisco centers, you will often find
> programs without these figures anywhere in 15 or more dances.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> The top 50 are (previous positions after):
>
> 1 Montgomeries Rant 3
> 2 Mairis Wedding 2
> 3 Pelorus Jack 1
> 4 Minister on the Loch 4
> 5 Maxwells Rant 7
> 6 Reel of the Royal Scots 6
> 7 Miss Johnstone of Ardrossan 5
> 8 Deil Amang the Tailors 11
> 9 Hoopers Jig 8
> 10 Joie de Vivre 9
> 11 Bratach Bana 12
> 12 Irish Rover 10
> 13 Wild Geese 13
> 14 Shiftin' Bobbins 15
> 15 Reel of the 51st Division 17
> 16 Neidpath Castle 14
> 17 Dream Catcher 16
> 18 Catch the Wind 23
> 19 Machine without Horses 24
> 20 Sugar Candie 19
> 21 Sailor 18
> 22 Mrs Stewart's Jig 21
> 23 Bees of Maggieknockater 20
> 24 MacDonald of the Isles 25
> 25 Seton's Ceilidh Band 26
> 26 Napier's Index 29
> 27 Silver Tassie 28
> 28 Gang The Same Gate 22
> 29 Gentleman 30
> 30 Luckenbooth Brooch 27
> 31 Quarries Jig 38
> 32 Tribute to the Borders 33
> 33 Laird of Milton's Daughter 37
> 34 Robertson Rant 39
> 35 EH37AF 31
> 36 Ian Powrie's Farewell 35
> 37 Polharrow Burn 32
> 38 Culla Bay 34
> 39 Piper and the Penguin 36
> 40 Duke of Perth 42
> 41 Clutha 40
> 42 Belle of Bon Accord 41
> 43 Cherrybank Gardens 43
> 44 Miss Milligan's Strathspey 54
> 45 Miss Gibsons Strathspey 58
> 46 Posties Jig 53
> 47 Trip to Bavaria 45
> 48 Wind on Loch Fyne 49
> 49 White Heather Jig 48
> 50 John of Bon Accord 50
>
> The three dances to drop out since last time are General Stuarts Reel,
> Follow me Home and Jubilee Jig.
>
>
>

Frequent dances update

Message 58510 · Miriam L. Mueller · 27 Apr 2010 17:21:43 · Top

The top 50 list is also impacted by the occasional but not unusual
programs purposely made up of the most popular dances, often as occurring
on the list. If I recall correctly, there were several reports of such
during the previous list discussion of the top 50 dances.

Mimi/Miriam Mueller San Francisco
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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Frequent dances update

Message 58894 · campbell · 7 Jun 2010 12:06:17 · Top

Lara Friedman-Shedlov wrote (on 26 April, I have only just picked this up)
>I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating (had to include that,

>thanks Lara), but we have to keep it in perspective: Just because dances
>are in the top 50 doesn't mean they are the only dances appearing on
programs.
>It just means there is a core group of dances that appearing over and over.

>Just because dances with pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting
>aren't in the top 50 doesn't mean they aren't appearing on programs.
>It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the
>average program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

I think I can answer that question: If we assume the average programme
consists of 20 dances, then on average:

1 of the first 6 will be on the programme (Montgomeries Rant, Mairis
Wedding, Pelorus Jack, Minister on the Loch, Maxwells Rant or Deil Amang the
Tailors)
1 of the next 7 (7 to 13)
1 of the next 8 (14 to 21)
1 of the next 9 (22 to 30)
1 of the next 10 (31 to 40)
1 of the next 11 (41 to 51).

So 6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

Frequent dances update

Message 58895 · campbell · 7 Jun 2010 12:20:36 · Top

Oops, sorry, a typo, I meant 14 would come from the rest, not 40!

-----Original Message-----
From: Campbell Personal [mailto:campbell@tyler.co.za]
Sent: 07 June 2010 12:06 PM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Frequent dances update

Lara Friedman-Shedlov wrote (on 26 April, I have only just picked this up)
>I, too, find Campbell's top 50 list quite fascinating (had to include
>that,

>thanks Lara), but we have to keep it in perspective: Just because
>dances are in the top 50 doesn't mean they are the only dances
>appearing on
programs.
>It just means there is a core group of dances that appearing over and over.

>Just because dances with pdb-heavy formations like hello-goodbye setting
>aren't in the top 50 doesn't mean they aren't appearing on programs.
>It would be interesting to know what percentage of dances on the
>average program are in the top 50, and how many are in the "long tail."

I think I can answer that question: If we assume the average programme
consists of 20 dances, then on average:

1 of the first 6 will be on the programme (Montgomeries Rant, Mairis
Wedding, Pelorus Jack, Minister on the Loch, Maxwells Rant or Deil Amang the
Tailors)
1 of the next 7 (7 to 13)
1 of the next 8 (14 to 21)
1 of the next 9 (22 to 30)
1 of the next 10 (31 to 40)
1 of the next 11 (41 to 51).

So 6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.

Campbell Tyler
Cape Town

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5178 (20100607) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Frequent dances update

Message 58896 · Wouter Joubert · 7 Jun 2010 12:37:55 · Top

>It would be
interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
programme features 6 of the top 50.<

Our latest Pretoria dance had 7 dances from the top 50 and 4 from the next 50 - one more than Campbell's average from each 50.

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria

Frequent dances update

Message 58897 · Chris Ronald · 7 Jun 2010 22:35:30 · Top

Hello Campbell,

You wrote, assuming a dance programme has on average 20 dances:

> "6 of the 20 on the programme will be from the top 50, leaving 40 to come
> from the rest. As a matter of interest, only another 3 would come from the
> next 50, so 9 of the 20 would come from the top 100. It would be
> interesting to hear from programme compilers whether their last 20 dance
> programme features 6 of the top 50."
>

Dance programmes here tend to have about 16 dances, no more. So for a fair
comparison, we need to look at the percentages. Your data show that 30% of
the dances (on programmes given to you) were from the top 50, and another
15% from the next 50. Or 45% were from the top 100.

Data for the last 6 dances here is: 35% top 50 and 12% next 50. Quite close
to the average.

FWIW.

Chris, New York.

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