strathspey Archive: "Ready, and ..." CDs

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"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48561 · James Tween · 28 Apr 2007 20:27:24 · Top

Something that's been on my mind for a bit, sure someone can help ...

Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the person saying "Ready, And ..." and the up-beat (anacrusis?) for the music?

It should have one or the other -- when I hear "Ready, And ..." I'm up on toes (ish) ready to go on the next beat, as it's usually followed by "one, two, three, and, two, two, three ...", to have the "Ready, And ..." followed by two notes leading into the music sets everyone off kilter.

Anyone know which bright spark missed this crucial point of dance teaching, or if there was any good reason in mind when doing it?

James
Preston, UK

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48562 · Andrea Re · 28 Apr 2007 20:41:59 · Top

James Tween ha scritto:
> Something that's been on my mind for a bit, sure someone can help ...
>
> Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the person saying "Ready, And ..." and the up-beat /(anacrusis?)/
/Have you been doing the crosswords?/ :-D

> It should have one or the other -- when I hear "Ready, And ..." I'm up on toes (ish) ready to go on the next beat, as it's usually followed by "one, two, three, and, two, two, three ...", to have the "Ready, And ..." followed by two notes leading into the music sets everyone off kilter.
>
Well, I would say that you need to start dancing on the -and- of the
previous bar because all the steps start there, and not on the -one-. I
thought that the "ready, and" is there to wake you up rather than
anything else.
> Anyone know which bright spark missed this crucial point of dance teaching, or if there was any good reason in mind when doing it?
>
I have never listened to the CD, so bear with me if I missed the point.

Besides, is the CD any good? I always wanted to buy it, but never really
found enough motivation.....

Andrea (fae Dundee and working at this time of the day :'( )

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48563 · James Tween · 28 Apr 2007 21:05:27 · Top

Fair point on the "when to start" thing ... on the "and" you're up on your
toes ready to start moving properly -- I know what I mean, we mean the same
thing, and that's not the discussion -- the point is that then the music
that follows the voice saying "Ready, And ..." doesn't begin on the first
bar of the tune, as it should, but it begins with two notes leading into the
tune. This is the musical equivalent of "Ready, And ..." so you don't need
both.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Re" <andrea.re@virgin.net>
To: "James Tween" <jamestween@bigfoot.com>; "SCD news and discussion"
<strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: "Ready, and ..." CDs

> James Tween ha scritto:
>> Something that's been on my mind for a bit, sure someone can help ...
>>
>> Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the person
>> saying "Ready, And ..." and the up-beat /(anacrusis?)/
> /Have you been doing the crosswords?/ :-D
>
>> It should have one or the other -- when I hear "Ready, And ..." I'm up on
>> toes (ish) ready to go on the next beat, as it's usually followed by
>> "one, two, three, and, two, two, three ...", to have the "Ready, And ..."
>> followed by two notes leading into the music sets everyone off kilter.
>>
> Well, I would say that you need to start dancing on the -and- of the
> previous bar because all the steps start there, and not on the -one-. I
> thought that the "ready, and" is there to wake you up rather than anything
> else.
>> Anyone know which bright spark missed this crucial point of dance
>> teaching, or if there was any good reason in mind when doing it?
>>
> I have never listened to the CD, so bear with me if I missed the point.
>
> Besides, is the CD any good? I always wanted to buy it, but never really
> found enough motivation.....
>
> Andrea (fae Dundee and working at this time of the day :'( )

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48566 · ron.mackey · 28 Apr 2007 22:55:40 · Top

On 28 Apr 2007 at 20:05, James Tween wrote:

> Fair point on the "when to start" thing ... on the "and" you're up on your
> toes ready to start moving properly -- I know what I mean, we mean the same
> thing, and that's not the discussion -- the point is that then the music
> that follows the voice saying "Ready, And ..." doesn't begin on the first
> bar of the tune, as it should, but it begins with two notes leading into the
> tune. This is the musical equivalent of "Ready, And ..." so you don't need
> both.
>
> James

It's exactly what happens in class when M is playing and no-
one comments then. 'Ready and' is not the first beat of the music - it's
an instruction (request) to the musician.

Cheers, Ron

Dance with a smile - and if you don't feel like smiling then just bare
your teeth!

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48567 · James Tween · 28 Apr 2007 23:13:57 · Top

Ah, so it's a commmand to the musician rather than the dancers. Makes
sense.

Shows the difference between (a) class when a teacher counts through a
figure, at which time they usually begin with "Ready, and, one, two, three,
and ...", and (b) when in class with a musician, at whci hpoint hte "ready,
and ..." is spoken in that direction.

Cheers!

James

----- Original Message -----
From: <ron.mackey@btinternet.com>
To: "James Tween" <jamestween@bigfoot.com>; "SCD news and discussion"
<strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: "Ready, and ..." CDs

> On 28 Apr 2007 at 20:05, James Tween wrote:
>
>> Fair point on the "when to start" thing ... on the "and" you're up on
>> your
>> toes ready to start moving properly -- I know what I mean, we mean the
>> same
>> thing, and that's not the discussion -- the point is that then the music
>> that follows the voice saying "Ready, And ..." doesn't begin on the first
>> bar of the tune, as it should, but it begins with two notes leading into
>> the
>> tune. This is the musical equivalent of "Ready, And ..." so you don't
>> need
>> both.
>>
>> James
>
> It's exactly what happens in class when M is playing and no-
> one comments then. 'Ready and' is not the first beat of the music - it's
> an instruction (request) to the musician.
>
> Cheers, Ron
>
> Dance with a smile - and if you don't feel like smiling then just bare
> your teeth!

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48573 · Anselm Lingnau · 29 Apr 2007 19:12:27 · Top

James Tween wrote:

> Shows the difference between (a) class when a teacher counts through a
> figure, at which time they usually begin with "Ready, and, one, two, three,
> and ...", and (b) when in class with a musician, at whci hpoint hte "ready,
> and ..." is spoken in that direction.

There oughtn't to be a difference between the two, actually.

The way this is supposed to work (in quick-time) is that the »ready-and« takes
up two bars' worth of time before the actual musical phrase starts. The
dancing starts on the musical beat immediately before the actual musical
phrase starts. Graphically this looks like this (for skip-change of step):

Time 7---.---|---.---8---.---|---.---1---.---|---.---2---.---|---.---3
Voice Rea-dy! and! hop one 2 3 hop two 2 3 hop ...
Music POM POM DIDDLE DIDDLE DIDDLE POM
Up-beat Musical phrase ...

(View this with a constant-width font for best effect.) That is, the musician
takes the cue for the tempo from the timing of the »ready-and«, and the
dancers should be alerted by the »ready-and« and poised and ready to go on
the musical up-beat, with the actual step starting, a teensy bit later, with
the »hop«, after the up-beat but immediately before the down-beat of the
first bar of the musical phrase. The musical up-beat before the actual
musical phrase starts is invariably half a bar long no matter what it says in
the sheet music (some tunes don't come with an up-beat so the musician must
invent one).

In strathspey time this is the same but the ready-and takes up only one bar's
worth of time.

I hope this makes some sort of sense. It sounds terribly complicated but
people tend to get it right instinctively in practice. The chaos begins if
anything within this microcosm is in any way out of kilter, e.g., the timing
of the »ready-and« is too quick or too slow, or the up-beat is missing or in
the wrong place, ...

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a
pleasure. -- Ambrose Bierce

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48574 · Andrea Re · 29 Apr 2007 19:33:02 · Top

Anselm Lingnau ha scritto:
> Graphically this looks like this (for skip-change of step):
>
> Time 7---.---|---.---8---.---|---.---1---.---|---.---2---.---|---.---3
> Voice Rea-dy! and! hop one 2 3 hop two 2 3 hop ...
> Music POM POM DIDDLE DIDDLE DIDDLE POM
> Up-beat Musical phrase ...
>
> (View this with a constant-width font for best effect.)
>
Not sure I understand/agree with this diagram.
In skip change (or in a similar fashion any other step you care to think
of) the hop (or whatever) is on beat (-1) of the bar (i.e. beat +4 of
the previous bar), while you seem to have it on beat (+1) of the bar in
question (assuming that the numbers on the top line are the bars and
the dots are the beats).

Also the "ready and" can well fit in one bar of music. I must confess I
change the way I say from one time to the next.....
> I hope this makes some sort of sense. It sounds terribly complicated but
> people tend to get it right instinctively in practice. The chaos begins if
> anything within this microcosm is in any way out of kilter, e.g., the timing
> of the »ready-and« is too quick or too slow, or the up-beat is missing or in
> the wrong place, ...
>
I was at a day school once and the musician wasn't playing ANY lead
note/s. We, the dancers, couldn't get started at all..... :-(

Andrea (fae Dundee)

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48575 · Anselm Lingnau · 29 Apr 2007 20:27:32 · Top

Andrea Re wrote:

> > Time 7---.---|---.---8---.---|---.---1---.---|---.---2---.---|---.---3
> > Voice Rea-dy! and! hop one 2 3 hop two 2 3 hop
> > ... Music POM POM DIDDLE DIDDLE
> > DIDDLE POM Up-beat Musical phrase ...
> >
> > (View this with a constant-width font for best effect.)
>
> Not sure I understand/agree with this diagram.
> In skip change (or in a similar fashion any other step you care to think
> of) the hop (or whatever) is on beat (-1) of the bar (i.e. beat +4 of
> the previous bar), while you seem to have it on beat (+1) of the bar in
> question (assuming that the numbers on the top line are the bars and
> the dots are the beats).

In the diagram, each bar starts at the number, and the »|« marks the middle of
the bar. The dots are beats 2 and 4, respectively. In the bit you quoted
above, the »Music« line is out of sync, so it doesn't quite reflect what I
originally wrote, but this may be a consequence of the quoting.

> Also the "ready and" can well fit in one bar of music. I must confess I
> change the way I say from one time to the next.....

Do you work with a musician? Musicians are usually a bit picky about this (but
then again there are musicians who will play at their own speed no matter
what the teacher says).

> I was at a day school once and the musician wasn't playing ANY lead
> note/s. We, the dancers, couldn't get started at all..... :-(

My point exactly :^|

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
The biggest difference between time and space is that you can't reuse time.
-- Merrick Furst

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48565 · ron.mackey · 28 Apr 2007 22:55:40 · Top

> Besides, is the CD any good? I always wanted to buy it, but never really
> found enough motivation.....
>
> Andrea (fae Dundee and working at this time of the day :'( )
>

Hi, Andrea
Well, it's always nice to hear Muriel on the
piano as it reminds one of many a dancing w/e but it takes a few goes
to get used to Bill's 'Ready and'.
Part of the problem I suspect was that the 'R a' was dubbed afterwards
in some instances and it sounds a little stilted. Use it a few times and
the ear becomes attuned. Obviously not the same as 'live Muriel' but
great if you do not have a tame musician to play with!
I have found it a very useful tool to teach difficult bits to not
very good dancers. One thing - with 78 tracks on it you do need a
player with quick and easy selection!

Happy Dancing :)
Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon and International Branches

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48612 · Sophie Rickebusch · 3 May 2007 11:35:12 · Top

I'm picking up on a slightly old thread, as I'm catching up after a few
wonderful days of dancing and sight-seeing in Budapest.

I also find the "Ready, and ..." CD very useful in the absence of a class
musician, despite the few points mentioned by Ron and others.

Selon ron.mackey@btinternet.com:

> Well, it's always nice to hear Muriel on the
> piano as it reminds one of many a dancing w/e but it takes a few goes
> to get used to Bill's 'Ready and'.
> Part of the problem I suspect was that the 'R a' was dubbed afterwards
> in some instances and it sounds a little stilted. Use it a few times and
> the ear becomes attuned. Obviously not the same as 'live Muriel' but
> great if you do not have a tame musician to play with!

I tend to listen to the "ready" and join in with my own (hopefully) slightly
more cheerful "and", at least when the class are going to dance (when I'm about
to demonstrate, I'm usually busy enough getting into place after pressing the
button!)

> I have found it a very useful tool to teach difficult bits to not
> very good dancers. One thing - with 78 tracks on it you do need a
> player with quick and easy selection!

I've copied the tracks I use most (4/8/16 bars each of R/J/S, plus a couple of
others) onto my laptop as MP3s. That way I can also play around with the tempo
(using Winamp and Pacemaker), either between exercises or even while the class
are dancing. These recordings are very slow, which is good when breaking up the
step, but dancers do get more tired and I find it helps to speed it up a bit for
the last try (once you've got the teaching points for the step across) or when
practising figures. That way there isn't such a big gap between the tempo of the
exercices and that of the actual dance.

Sophie

--
Sophie Rickebusch
FR - St Martin d'Heres

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48620 · ron.mackey · 4 May 2007 02:05:13 · Top

These recordings are very slow, which is good when breaking up the
> step, but dancers do get more tired and I find it helps to speed it up a bit for
> the last try (once you've got the teaching points for the step across) or when
> practising figures. That way there isn't such a big gap between the tempo of the
> exercices and that of the actual dance.
>
> Sophie

Yes to that. I had a fixed-speed player in the past and it was
ssomething that made me invest!

Regards, Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham
London

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48569 · Colleen Putt · 28 Apr 2007 23:49:04 · Top

Oops. Have I got the wrong CD in mind?
Cheers,
Colleen

> Something that's been on my mind for a bit, sure someone can help ...
>
> Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the
> person saying "Ready, And ..." and the up-beat (anacrusis?) for the
> music?
>
> It should have one or the other -- when I hear "Ready, And ..." I'm
> up on toes (ish) ready to go on the next beat, as it's usually
> followed by "one, two, three, and, two, two, three ...", to have the
> "Ready, And ..." followed by two notes leading into the music sets
> everyone off kilter.
>
> Anyone know which bright spark missed this crucial point of dance
> teaching, or if there was any good reason in mind when doing it?
>
> James
> Preston, UK

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48570 · Brian Charlton · 29 Apr 2007 00:28:26 · Top

G'Day,

I have found the "With the Music ~ Ready ...... And" CD useful, particularly
when teaching beginners (Note the full title - to distinguish it from Bobby
Brown), even if you don't use the slowed-time tracks. For example, the reels
are played in a slower time than dance recordings which gives the beginners
time for all parts of their pas-de-basque. The transition tracks -
reel/strathspey and back are also useful practice.

To overcome Ron's problem of so many tracks, I have copied the Reel, Jig and
Strathpey tracks to separate CDs.

Happy Dancing, everyone,

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

On 29/04/07, cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca> wrote:
>
> Oops. Have I got the wrong CD in mind?
> Cheers,
> Colleen
>
>
> > Something that's been on my mind for a bit, sure someone can help ...
> >
> > Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the
> > person saying "Ready, And ..." and the up-beat (anacrusis?) for the
> > music?
> >
> > It should have one or the other -- when I hear "Ready, And ..." I'm
> > up on toes (ish) ready to go on the next beat, as it's usually
> > followed by "one, two, three, and, two, two, three ...", to have the
> > "Ready, And ..." followed by two notes leading into the music sets
> > everyone off kilter.
> >
> > Anyone know which bright spark missed this crucial point of dance
> > teaching, or if there was any good reason in mind when doing it?
> >
> > James
> > Preston, UK
>
>
>
>

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48577 · ron.mackey · 29 Apr 2007 23:14:05 · Top

> To overcome Ron's problem of so many tracks, I have copied the Reel, Jig and
> Strathpey tracks to separate CDs.
>
> Happy Dancing, everyone,
>
> Brian Charlton,

That's a smart idea! :)

Regards, Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham
London

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48571 · simon scott · 29 Apr 2007 00:34:04 · Top

The CD that Colleen referred to is not Muriel and Bill. It is a Bobby Brown
CD with standard full length dances including "Bonnie Stronshiray".

Simon
Vancouver

> Why does the "Ready, And ..." CD I was taught with have both the

> James
> Preston, UK

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48576 · ron.mackey · 29 Apr 2007 23:11:17 · Top

On 28 Apr 2007 at 15:34, Simon Scott wrote:

>
>
>
> The CD that Colleen referred to is not Muriel and Bill. It is a Bobby Brown
> CD with standard full length dances including "Bonnie Stronshiray".
>
> Simon
> Vancouver

That's a bit confusing. What other dances are included?
Happy Dancing :)
Ron

Ron Mackey
London, Croydon and International Branches

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48578 · Margaret Lambourne · 29 Apr 2007 23:23:59 · Top

The "Ready ... And" cd by Bobby Brown was originally issued on
record many years ago. The other dances beside Bonnie Stronshiray are
Bauldy Bain's Fiddle, The Bonnie Briest Knots, The Highlandman's
Umbrella, Old Nick's Lumber Room, Salute to Summer, The Lassies of
Dunse, The Reel of the Royal Scots and The Duran Ranger.

Margaret
Nieuwegein, The Netherlands,
International and London Branches.
On Apr 29, 2007, at 11:11 PM, ron.mackey@btinternet.com wrote:

> On 28 Apr 2007 at 15:34, Simon Scott wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> The CD that Colleen referred to is not Muriel and Bill. It is a
>> Bobby Brown
>> CD with standard full length dances including "Bonnie Stronshiray".
>>
>> Simon
>> Vancouver
>
> That's a bit confusing. What other dances are included?
> Happy Dancing :)
> Ron
>
> Ron Mackey
> London, Croydon and International Branches
>

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48590 · ron.mackey · 1 May 2007 00:47:20 · Top

On 29 Apr 2007 at 23:23, Margaret Lambourne wrote:

> The "Ready ... And" cd by Bobby Brown was originally issued on
> record many years ago. The other dances beside Bonnie Stronshiray are
> Bauldy Bain's Fiddle, The Bonnie Briest Knots, The Highlandman's
> Umbrella, Old Nick's Lumber Room, Salute to Summer, The Lassies of
> Dunse, The Reel of the Royal Scots and The Duran Ranger.
>
> Margaret
> Nieuwegein, The Netherlands,

Of CoursE, Margaret!! I have a copy over there under the bookshelves in the
record box covered by spare files and binders that hasn't moved for ?? years!! :~)

Is there a CD of that record?

Regards, Ron

Ron Mackey
Mottingham
London

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48594 · Marie Disiewicz · 1 May 2007 08:45:48 · Top

Hi Ron
What a shame you did not get the Bobby Brown - Cape Breton Fiddle Orchestra
Ready... And CD when they were available.
Sold out and as far as I know TACSound is not going to re-issue again.
Cheers
Marie

Quoting ron.mackey@btinternet.com:

> On 29 Apr 2007 at 23:23, Margaret Lambourne wrote:
>
> > The "Ready ... And" cd by Bobby Brown was originally issued on
> > record many years ago. The other dances beside Bonnie Stronshiray are
> > Bauldy Bain's Fiddle, The Bonnie Briest Knots, The Highlandman's
> > Umbrella, Old Nick's Lumber Room, Salute to Summer, The Lassies of
> > Dunse, The Reel of the Royal Scots and The Duran Ranger.
> >
> > Margaret
> > Nieuwegein, The Netherlands,
>
> Of CoursE, Margaret!! I have a copy over there under the bookshelves in
> the
> record box covered by spare files and binders that hasn't moved for ??
> years!! :~)
>
> Is there a CD of that record?
>
> Regards, Ron
>
> Ron Mackey
> Mottingham
> London
>
>

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48651 · Margaret Lambourne · 6 May 2007 18:32:13 · Top

I didn't see that either, Marie, so maybe there is a case for re-
issuing it again as i would have probably bought it as well.

Margaret,
Nieuwegein, The Netherlands

On May 1, 2007, at 8:45 AM, speym@telus.net wrote:

> Hi Ron
> What a shame you did not get the Bobby Brown - Cape Breton Fiddle
> Orchestra
> Ready... And CD when they were available.
> Sold out and as far as I know TACSound is not going to re-issue again.
> Cheers
> Marie
>
>

"Ready, and ..." CDs

Message 48650 · Margaret Lambourne · 6 May 2007 18:27:52 · Top

Sorry, Ron, not to have replied earlier but I've been in England and
out of touch.

As far as I know, there's no cd been issued from that recording. I
have transfered it to cd myself and I also have a cd player with
pitch control for teaching which you do need with that record as it
is quite fast.

Marie, is this something TAC or Bobby Brown himself, could possibly
do as others of his have been reissued in the last few years?

Margaret
Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
On May 1, 2007, at 12:47 AM, ron.mackey@btinternet.com wrote:

> On 29 Apr 2007 at 23:23, Margaret Lambourne wrote:
>
>> The "Ready ... And" cd by Bobby Brown was originally issued on
>> record many years ago. The other dances beside Bonnie Stronshiray are
>> Bauldy Bain's Fiddle, The Bonnie Briest Knots, The Highlandman's
>> Umbrella, Old Nick's Lumber Room, Salute to Summer, The Lassies of
>> Dunse, The Reel of the Royal Scots and The Duran Ranger.
>>
>> Margaret
>> Nieuwegein, The Netherlands,
>
> Of CoursE, Margaret!! I have a copy over there under the
> bookshelves in the
> record box covered by spare files and binders that hasn't moved
> for ?? years!! :~)
>
> Is there a CD of that record?
>
> Regards, Ron
>
> Ron Mackey
> Mottingham
> London
>

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