strathspey Archive: Emcee

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Emcee

Message 44535 · ParadiseMO · 7 Mar 2006 20:14:23 · Top

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, "emcee" entered the English
language in 1933 - _http://www.etymonline.com/index.php_
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php)

DOUG SCHNEIDER
Who entered the world in 1943

Emcee

Message 44543 · Andrea Re · 8 Mar 2006 01:36:18 · Top

For Fiona and the others who wondered.... here are my 2 cents on the
development of the English language (and I beg your pardon to start with).

1) The English language, on both sides of the Atlantic has an obsession
about shortening words and creating acronyms of compound words. The same
does not apply to, for example, romance languages. Certainly not to
Italian, nor, as far as I know, French or Spanish. There are hypothesis
as to why the English language has this tendency, but let's not get too
technical (and it is late at night)

2) In creating shorter words or, even worst, acronyms, people tend to
forget what the abbreviation stands for. Even easy things like QC (or
even better KC) are lost to most people. Working as a translator I can
assure you that acronyms can make any text unintelligible, unless you
are one of the chosen few who know what the letters stand for.

3) Since the origin of the word is quickly lost, the acronym becomes a
word in its own right and in doing so it will have to be spelled one way
or another, hence "emcee". I'll try and think of similar transformations
and keep u posted.
Former acronyms could be: laser, sonar, ram and so on, but they are not
as interesting since the spelling has not changed.

Andrea (fae Dundee, but not an Englishe native speakereh)

Emcee

Message 44548 · SMiskoe · 8 Mar 2006 04:08:42 · Top


In a message dated 3/7/2006 7:38:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
andrea.re@virgin.net writes:

Even easy things like QC (or
even better KC) are lost to most people

QC to means quality control. Where does the K come in?
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

Emcee

Message 44549 · Remco Viëtor · 8 Mar 2006 09:20:28 · Top

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 04:08, SMiskoe@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/7/2006 7:38:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> andrea.re@virgin.net writes:
>
> Even easy things like QC (or
> even better KC) are lost to most people
>
>
> QC to means quality control. Where does the K come in?
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

King's council/Queen's council?
(just a foreigner's guess :)

Remco

Emcee

Message 44559 · Pia Walker · 8 Mar 2006 10:45:49 · Top

Okay - what have we got: rescedee, pdb, IPF(t)A - eipeeftea - any other?
(ao)
The best one I know is swedish where a managing director is abbreviated to
VD

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org]On Behalf Of
Remco Vietor
Sent: 08 March 2006 08:20
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Emcee

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 04:08, SMiskoe@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/7/2006 7:38:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> andrea.re@virgin.net writes:
>
> Even easy things like QC (or
> even better KC) are lost to most people
>
>
> QC to means quality control. Where does the K come in?
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

King's council/Queen's council?
(just a foreigner's guess :)

Remco

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Emcee

Message 44562 · Sophie Rickebusch · 8 Mar 2006 11:33:01 · Top

Quoting Pia <pia@intamail.com>:

> The best one I know is swedish where a managing director is abbreviated to
> VD

Half a million cars in Switzerland have got VD on their number plates... all
those belonging to people in the Canton of Vaud!

--
Sophie Rickebusch
CH - Wettswil a. A.

Emcee

Message 44568 · Chris1Ronald · 8 Mar 2006 16:16:26 · Top

_Sophie wrote_ (mailto:Sophie.rickebusch@swissfree.ch) :

"Half a million cars in Switzerland have got VD on their number plates..."
I used to think that STD meant subscriber trunk dialling but - perhaps
because we've all got that kind of STD these days - it now means something else.

Not to be confused with SCD, of course (says he, in a rather pathetic
attempt to bring things back on topic.)

Chris, New York.


QC/KC - was Emcee

Message 44552 · ninian-uk · 8 Mar 2006 10:01:59 · Top

Sylvia wrote... "> QC to means quality control. Where does the K come in?
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA"

QC = Queen's Counsel (if the monarch is a Queen)
KC = King's Counsel (if the monarch is a King)

"A member of the English or Scottish bar.... A practising barrister or
advocate of 10 years' standing may apply to become a Queen's Counsel (or
'take silk', a reference to the gowns they wear). New appointments, made on
the recommendation of the Lord Chancellor, are announced annually on Maundy
Thursday." (Cambridge Encyclopaedia, 4th edition, 2000)

KC also stands for Kennel Club (well, we've just had Crufts dog show, so
that one came to my mind).

This is an instance of where I was floored by Sylvia's definition of QC as
'quality control', a definition I haven't seen used. Other examples are the
use of PC, which can mean Police Constable, politically correct, Privy
Counsellor and personal computer: PCC can stand for Press Complaints
Commission, Parochial Church Council and Penge/Pittenweem Cricket Club, plus
another I've forgotten since I started typing... another senior moment :~(

While we all assume that MC stands for Master of Ceremonies, it can also
mean Member of Congress (USA), midheaven (astrological), Military Cross or
music cassette; it is also the international abbreviation for Monaco.

Everything depends on the context.

David (and I promise I haven't been colluding with <pedantic> Fiona in
nearby Bristol!)
Berkeley, Gloucestershire, UK

QC/KC - was Emcee

Message 44565 · SMiskoe · 8 Mar 2006 14:23:35 · Top


In a message dated 3/8/2006 7:41:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ninian-uk@tiscali.co.uk writes:

This is an instance of where I was floored by Sylvia's definition of QC as
'quality control', a definition I haven't seen used.

It all depends on where you are coming from. As a microbiologist and state
inspector of all sorts of medical laboratories (recently retired) I have
spent hours reviewing QC records of daily testing. The QC test is the 'reality
test'. The answer is always known and if you do a test run and the QC is
within the limits of the known value you can feel assured that the other sample
results were valid. On the other hand when the QC test doesn't give you the
correct answer, you can assume the whole test run is incorrect...... And
start over.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

QC/KC - was Emcee

Message 44569 · Jan E Rudge · 8 Mar 2006 16:42:49 · Top

> QC records.... QC test

In my experience (in the UK), the term "quality control" has been
superseded
by "quality assurance", or QA, since many years ago. This definitely
applies
in the computer industry where Software Quality Assurance is the official
term
for program testing.

Best regards,

Jan

Beaconsfield, UK

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QC/KC - was Emcee

Message 44594 · hways · 9 Mar 2006 01:59:58 · Top

> Sylvia wrote... "> QC to means quality control. Where does the K come in?
>> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA"

Google will tell you Kansas City.

Harry

Emcee (off topic)

Message 44555 · Sophie Rickebusch · 8 Mar 2006 10:16:51 · Top

Quoting Andrea Re <andrea.re@virgin.net>:

> 1) The English language, on both sides of the Atlantic has an obsession
> about shortening words and creating acronyms of compound words. The same
> does not apply to, for example, romance languages. Certainly not to
> Italian, nor, as far as I know, French or Spanish.

I beg to differ... I wouldn't know about Italian or Spanish, but the French are
notorious for it. Just one example: PAF ("paysage audio-visuel francais" -
french TV and radio "landscape") is pronounced as one word (like "paf!", french
equivalent to "thud!"), not pe-a-ef. Incidentally, this is particular to the
French, Swiss french-speakers at least do not use half as many acronyms and tend
to be rather annoyed by them (often because they don't understand what the
french newsreader or whoever is going on about).

Sophie
--
Sophie Rickebusch
CH - Wettswil a. A.

Emcee (off topic)

Message 44560 · Pia Walker · 8 Mar 2006 10:50:30 · Top

While Italians instead of using acronyms, just shrug their shoulders in
certain ways - :>)

Pia
Who knows that Andrea is Italian - and do like to tease him.

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org]On Behalf Of
Sophie Rickebusch
Sent: 08 March 2006 09:17
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Emcee (off topic)

Quoting Andrea Re <andrea.re@virgin.net>:

> 1) The English language, on both sides of the Atlantic has an obsession
> about shortening words and creating acronyms of compound words. The same
> does not apply to, for example, romance languages. Certainly not to
> Italian, nor, as far as I know, French or Spanish.

I beg to differ... I wouldn't know about Italian or Spanish, but the French
are
notorious for it. Just one example: PAF ("paysage audio-visuel francais" -
french TV and radio "landscape") is pronounced as one word (like "paf!",
french
equivalent to "thud!"), not pe-a-ef. Incidentally, this is particular to the
French, Swiss french-speakers at least do not use half as many acronyms and
tend
to be rather annoyed by them (often because they don't understand what the
french newsreader or whoever is going on about).

Sophie
--
Sophie Rickebusch
CH - Wettswil a. A.

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Acronyms and abbreviations (was emcee)

Message 44557 · Jim Healy · 8 Mar 2006 10:41:10 · Top

Greetings!

Andrea writes:
>1) The English language, on both sides of the Atlantic has an obsession
>about shortening words and creating acronyms of compound words. The same
>does not apply to, for example, romance languages. Certainly not to
>Italian,

Andrea, I must disagree. Try reading the Corriere della Sera without knowing
the meaning of CIGL, CISL and UIL (the main Unions) An, FI, PDS, FI (the
political parties) and so on, to say nothing of 'democristiani' or l'Ulivo.
I will agree that other languages can be worse with business letters in
Dutch leading the way with their t.g.v (in favour of) and t.a.v.(for the
attention of) and dozens more abbreviations that make them unintelligible
even to someone who speaks the language.

Jim Healy
Perth and 98000 MC

Acronyms and abbreviations (was emcee)

Message 44564 · GOSS9@telefonica.net · 8 Mar 2006 14:17:42 · Top

True here in Spain. In fact most people my my part do not understand
Basque, but know that ETA pronounced as spelled, means a terrorist
group, even without knowing or understanding the acronym. The real
problem is for outsiders encountering the daily paperfor the first
time. When I first attended a Scottish university, I was a bit
overwhelmed by the number of university specific acronyms encountered.

Having said that, the real problem here is that when one starts with a
consonant such as M, N, L, F, H, R, S, W, X, the initial sound is not
picked up.

Related story about how acronyms travel. At the end of the season two
summers ago, I was the only one doing laps in the village pool, and the
lifeguard did not even bother to dress out. I asked what would happen
if I had a problem to which she answered, that she would probably get
her clothes wet. I then asked, BTW what does one say for help in this
part of Spain?

when her response sounded like the English word "sauce", I asked what
it meant, thinking some obscure Mallorquí or Arabic word. She said she
did not know, but that is what they say. That night in a bar, I
repeated this story and my question, and got laughed at. The word got
started from those little "help" phones on the major highways on the
island. The phone boxes say "SOS".

Emcee

Message 44576 · Strathspey · 8 Mar 2006 18:26:07 · Top

Acronym's have been the bane of my life since I joined the IT department at
work where everything is referred to in Acronyms. I had to get to grips with
the PID, SOR, BRD, FRS, SDS etc. etc. etc.

The lowest point was when I sat through a whole hour of a meeting puzzling
over the chairman's first sentence: "And we will need a TLA for this
product!"

"TLA? TLA?" I thought. "Trans-Lunar Altitude? Terminal Language Application?
Tired, Listless and Apathetic?"

I eventually worked out that TLA meant "Three Letter Acronym"

TTFN (that's an FLA no doubt!)

Graham Hamilton

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-reel=craigellachie.demon.co.uk@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-reel=craigellachie.demon.co.uk@strathspey.org
]On Behalf Of Andrea Re
Sent: 08 March 2006 00:36
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Emcee

For Fiona and the others who wondered.... here are my 2 cents on the
development of the English language (and I beg your pardon to start with).

1) The English language, on both sides of the Atlantic has an obsession
about shortening words and creating acronyms of compound words. The same
does not apply to, for example, romance languages. Certainly not to
Italian, nor, as far as I know, French or Spanish. There are hypothesis
as to why the English language has this tendency, but let's not get too
technical (and it is late at night)

2) In creating shorter words or, even worst, acronyms, people tend to
forget what the abbreviation stands for. Even easy things like QC (or
even better KC) are lost to most people. Working as a translator I can
assure you that acronyms can make any text unintelligible, unless you
are one of the chosen few who know what the letters stand for.

3) Since the origin of the word is quickly lost, the acronym becomes a
word in its own right and in doing so it will have to be spelled one way
or another, hence "emcee". I'll try and think of similar transformations
and keep u posted.
Former acronyms could be: laser, sonar, ram and so on, but they are not
as interesting since the spelling has not changed.

Andrea (fae Dundee, but not an Englishe native speakereh)

Emcee

Message 44577 · Alexandre Rafalovitch · 8 Mar 2006 18:35:28 · Top

And when you thought you mastered them all, there come the smileys. :-)

Regards,
Alex
P.s. TLA (three-letter-acronym) was at one point a self referential
joke, the same way Linux operating system could be interpreted as
Linux Is Not UniX.....

On 3/8/06, Graham Hamilton <reel@craigellachie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Acronym's have been the bane of my life since I joined the IT department at
> work where everything is referred to in Acronyms. I had to get to grips with
> the PID, SOR, BRD, FRS, SDS etc. etc. etc.
>

Re:GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44580 · Steve Wyrick · 8 Mar 2006 18:46:40 · Top

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:35:28 -0500
"Alexandre Rafalovitch" <arafalov@gmail.com> wrote:

> P.s. TLA (three-letter-acronym) was at one point a self referential
> joke, the same way Linux operating system could be interpreted as
> Linux Is Not UniX.....
>

You COULD interpret it that way but I don't believe that was the intent. I
understand Linux was named that because it was LINus Torvald's interpretation
of the UniX kernel. On the other hand, Richard Stallman's original system GNU,
which Linux works with, IS self-referential, and I suspect what you were
thinking of: GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix! -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

Re:GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44583 · Jan E Rudge · 8 Mar 2006 19:03:13 · Top

>> GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix

Steve, what does the G stand for?

Jan

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GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44584 · Steve Wyrick · 8 Mar 2006 19:04:29 · Top

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:03:13 +0000
Jan E Rudge <jrudge@csc.com> wrote:

>>> GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix
>
> Steve, what does the G stand for?

GNU!

--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44588 · Pia Walker · 8 Mar 2006 20:48:15 · Top

LIke in Wildebeast - and Onyx?

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org]On Behalf Of
Steve Wyrick
Sent: 08 March 2006 18:04
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:03:13 +0000
Jan E Rudge <jrudge@csc.com> wrote:

>>> GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix
>
> Steve, what does the G stand for?

GNU!

--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

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GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44611 · Steve Wyrick · 9 Mar 2006 15:36:11 · Top

Pia wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:03:13 +0000
> Jan E Rudge <jrudge@csc.com> wrote:
>
>>>> GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix
>>
>> Steve, what does the G stand for?
>
> GNU!
>
> LIke in Wildebeast - and Onyx?

No, Like in GNU's Not Unix! It's recursive, remember? ;-)
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44612 · Pia Walker · 9 Mar 2006 16:42:14 · Top

:>) Now why did you not jus say so :>) :>)

PIa
Who hasn't got a clue

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org]On Behalf Of
Steve Wyrick
Sent: 09 March 2006 14:36
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Pia wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:03:13 +0000
> Jan E Rudge <jrudge@csc.com> wrote:
>
>>>> GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix
>>
>> Steve, what does the G stand for?
>
> GNU!
>
> LIke in Wildebeast - and Onyx?

No, Like in GNU's Not Unix! It's recursive, remember? ;-)
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

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Re:GNU/Linux (was: emcee) -- NO SCD content...

Message 44581 · Steve Wyrick · 8 Mar 2006 18:47:27 · Top

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:35:28 -0500
"Alexandre Rafalovitch" <arafalov@gmail.com> wrote:

> P.s. TLA (three-letter-acronym) was at one point a self referential
> joke, the same way Linux operating system could be interpreted as
> Linux Is Not UniX.....
>

You COULD interpret it that way but I don't believe that was the intent. I
understand Linux was named that because it was LINus Torvald's interpretation
of the UniX kernel. On the other hand, Richard Stallman's original system GNU,
which Linux works with, IS self-referential, and I suspect what you were
thinking of: GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix! -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

Emcee

Message 44590 · John Chambers · 8 Mar 2006 22:43:58 · Top

| I eventually worked out that TLA meant "Three Letter Acronym"
|
| TTFN (that's an FLA no doubt!)
|
| Graham Hamilton

One of the better examples of the humor in the computer industry's
"jargon file" is that the correct acronym in this case is ETLA, which
stands for Extended Three-Letter Acronym. It's a great parody of how
such things are often done. And note that, just as TLA is itself a
TLA, ETLA is also an ETLA.

--
_,
O John Chambers
<:#/> <jc@trillian.mit.edu>
+ <jc1742@gmail.com>
/#\ in Waltham, Massachusetts, USA, Earth
| |

Emcee

Message 44597 · Pia Walker · 9 Mar 2006 10:05:40 · Top

I too find acronyms annoying, and have and will stress in committees that I
find acronyms in minutes, reports and general speech during meetings
unacceptable as it delays and distracts the thought process.

Pia

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-pia=intamail.com@strathspey.org]On Behalf Of
John Chambers
Sent: 08 March 2006 21:44
To: strathspey@strathspey.org; Strathspey Server
Subject: Re: Emcee

| I eventually worked out that TLA meant "Three Letter Acronym"
|
| TTFN (that's an FLA no doubt!)
|
| Graham Hamilton

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Emcee

Message 44609 · Alexandre Rafalovitch · 9 Mar 2006 15:30:18 · Top

On 3/9/06, Pia <pia@intamail.com> wrote:
> I too find acronyms annoying, and have and will stress in committees that I
> find acronyms in minutes, reports and general speech during meetings
> unacceptable as it delays and distracts the thought process.

The research has shown that the acronyms do cause the breaks in the
thought process if they are unknown or conflicting with other meanings
(like the QC discussed). However, once you know what the acronym means
for the context, it has its own semantic load and actually helps out
by triggering concept parsing faster. And the same applies to longer
phrases such as Mayday, which is recognised without having to know the
French original.

In the IT (sorry, information technology) world, the abstructions are
so high and piled on each other, that spelling everything out may
really get in a way of conversation. Whether it is the same for other
fields I don't know, but I suspect it might.

Regards,
Alex.

Emcee

Message 44592 · Ron Mackey · 9 Mar 2006 00:19:46 · Top

> TTFN (that's an FLA no doubt!)
>
> Graham Hamilton

That was a tactical error, Graham. I thought you were younger
than that? :))

Regards, Ron

Emcee

Message 44637 · Martin · 11 Mar 2006 21:31:41 · Top

----- Original Message -----
From: <ParadiseMO@aol.com>

> According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, "emcee" entered the English
> language in 1933 -

Which English language?

In Great Britain, there are a lot of people that use the English language,
and there are more and more that copy what others do across the water.

Martin,
back in still frozen Grenoble (why did I not stay down south?)

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