strathspey Archive: sashes

Previous thread: David Houston/Austin/IBM is out of the office.
Next thread: Miss Gibsons Reel (original instructions request)

sashes

Message 43051 · DONNA WEIDENFELLER · 7 Nov 2005 09:12:28 · Top

In our San Francisco class a person wears a red ribbon to indicate dancing
on the side of the set different from their gender..
Donna SF

"Dance,then,wherever you may be.."

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

sashes

Message 43052 · campbell · 7 Nov 2005 09:48:52 · Top

>
> In our San Francisco class a person wears a red ribbon to indicate dancing
> on the side of the set different from their gender..
> Donna SF
>
We in our Cape Town class do the same, except it is a multi-coloured
ribbon. One of our young dancers suggested we call them "Boyz Bands"
which of course is confusing for outsiders but we enjoy the joke and it is
almost always women who need them. As the teacher I find that our sets
need the indication as to who is dancing the mens part and who the ladies
part. Perhaps this is an indication of my relative inability but I am
happy to go with that. I find the extreme position of trying to be
gender-neutral just too much to go with.

Campbell Tyler

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

sashes

Message 43053 · Paula Jacobson · 7 Nov 2005 10:47:45 · Top

I prefer to have my class learn the positions and formations without
the use of such "helpers". It may take a little longer, but the end
result is that they usually become stronger dancers. It has been my
experience that a dancer will often forget to remove the sash, thus
causing more confusion than originally existed.

Paula Jacobson
SF Branch

>
> In our San Francisco class a person wears a red ribbon to indicate dancing
> on the side of the set different from their gender..
> Donna SF
>
We in our Cape Town class do the same, except it is a multi-coloured
ribbon. As the teacher I find that our sets need the indication as to
who is dancing the mens part and who the ladies part.
Campbell Tyler

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

sashes

Message 43059 · Richard Goss · 7 Nov 2005 14:09:18 · Top

Here in Spain not in SCD but in international dancing (bal de món) and Spanish dancing (bal bot) most of the dances are not gender specific, but in ballroom dancing (bal de saló) and in some dances this is important, so the teachers hand out neckties (corbatas) of two colors, "oro" for "dones" and "moro" for "homs". While I take the previous point that I also consider them a negative crutch in SCD, here where there is no top/bottom or particular side to dances in longways sets (progression is never more then one place and then back on a repeat), it is necessary for a reference point in the few dances where it does matter.
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Corners - was 'sashes'

Message 43068 · Iain Boyd · 7 Nov 2005 21:35:38 · Top

Perhaps, this is a good argument for defining a 'corner' as a 'position' rather than a 'person'.

Iain Boyd

Paula Jacobson <PJacobson@KTEH.org> wrote:
It has been my experience that a dancer will often forget to remove the sash, thus causing more confusion than originally existed.

Paula Jacobson
SF Branch

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404
Wellington
New Zealand
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Corners - was 'sashes'

Message 43082 · Bryan McAlister · 8 Nov 2005 09:42:39 · Top

Agree 110% There is nothing so confusing as being told to face your
first corner person when half the men in the set are ladies.

In message <20051107203538.71913.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com>, Iain
Boyd <iain_boyd_scd@yahoo.co.nz> writes
>Perhaps, this is a good argument for defining a 'corner' as a
>'position' rather than a 'person'.
>
>Iain Boyd
>
>Paula Jacobson <PJacobson@KTEH.org> wrote:
>It has been my experience that a dancer will often forget to remove the
>sash, thus causing more confusion than originally existed.
>
>Paula Jacobson
>SF Branch
>
>
>Postal Address -
>
> P O Box 11-404
> Wellington
> New Zealand
>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

--
Bryan McAlister
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Corners - was 'sashes'

Message 43084 · mlamontbrown · 8 Nov 2005 12:50:44 · Top

> Perhaps, this is a good argument for defining a 'corner' as a 'position' rather
than a 'person'.
>
> Iain Boyd

Greetings:

As Helen pointed out to me,

when you are a man the corner positions don't change, and the concept of 3rd & 4th
corners helps (because 1st corner is always "diagonally down from 1st place", you
have a fixed reference point) - however ladies who have to dance on both sides don't
have this fixed point, so they have to make even more of an adjustment to work out
where 4th corners are.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Corners - ladies' dilemma

Message 43099 · Iain Boyd · 8 Nov 2005 20:59:26 · Top

I appreciate the ladies' problem.

However, I still think the use of third and fourth corners is a useful concept - certainly for written instructions.

When it comes to actually teaching, perhaps the teacher may have to treat the concept with caution and use other words to get the message across - maybe even demonstrate!

Regards,

Iain


mlamontbrown <mlamontbrown@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> Perhaps, this is a good argument for defining a 'corner' as a 'position' rather
than a 'person'.
>
> Iain Boyd

Greetings:

As Helen pointed out to me,

when you are a man the corner positions don't change, and the concept of 3rd & 4th
corners helps (because 1st corner is always "diagonally down from 1st place", you
have a fixed reference point) - however ladies who have to dance on both sides don't
have this fixed point, so they have to make even more of an adjustment to work out
where 4th corners are.

Malcolm

Malcolm L Brown
York

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Postal Address -

P O Box 11-404
Wellington
New Zealand
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Corners - was 'sashes'

Message 43071 · Ron Mackey · 7 Nov 2005 23:56:07 · Top

> Perhaps, this is a good argument for defining a 'corner' as a 'position' rather than a 'person'.
>
> Iain Boyd

Nothing is really much help when corner person has got lost
somewhere in the (or another) set. :~)

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43054 · Martin · 7 Nov 2005 10:59:31 · Top

I don't know whether many of you organize or attend ceilidhs.

We run one each month, open to all-comers, with varying success (!); it's
always good fun, but I am constantly amazed and saddened by the lack of
physical coordination and sense of rhythm of many members of the public.
Is it the same in other countries? or is it something lacking in French
education?

At a ceilidh, I don't expect skip change or pdb, but I would like to see
people matching their movements to the music. But, no. Not only have they
never seen or heard of a waltz or polka, they can't even march/walk in time
to the music (most of the dances we do to a walking step). Whatever their
age group, they are like puppets without strings.

Don't read me as scornful of these people; I feel it is so terribly sad that
one can reach adulthood (even advanced adulthood) without ever having
discovered something so satisfying as music and dance, pleasure in ones own
movements, spontaneous physical expression. A great chunk of experience
completely overlooked in schools.

This is quite off-topic, forgive me. It's not about the fun of social
dancing. It's about education and today's "culture".

I gather country dancing is being reintroducd in Scottish schools. Does
anyone know of the result?

Martin,
in Grenoble, France

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43057 · Jo Dahl · 7 Nov 2005 12:07:20 · Top

Hi Martin,

Last Saturday we took our 9 year old granddaughter, Amy, to a ceilidh
from 5.30 - 9 pm here in Brisbane, only her second introduction to SCD
Granny-Jo had to buy her some dancing shoes in the morning! An early
Christmas present.

During the first hour the children were taught skip change around the
room, L & Rs, circling X 8 bars each way, up the middle & casting,
even prominade. Then they all had a break colouring in Scottish
booklets whilst the adults danced. The kids were given shakers with
split peas in them to keep time with the live music of electronic
piano & fiddle. Blue ribbons & tartan ribbons were used to pair off
the children & in another dance they all had bells tied to the wrists
to shake at given moments to try to give them a sense of rhythm. Then
each child was paired with an adult in a cirlcle facing the next
couple doing an around the room dance, facing a new couple each time.

Then it was time for the sausage sizzle supper, followed by songs
from a soloist, one child very vividly told the story of the Lochness
monster, then followed more child/adult dancing.

Altogether it was an exciting experience for Amy mixing with children
from 18 months to about 14, plus adults willing to help them to
enjoy the Scottish adventure.

It did'nt matter that some were awkward with footwork, timing etc.,
they threw themselves into the spirit of it all & it was very funny
to watch from the sidelines. I can tell you the whole evening was
really enjoyable, with no traumas or fuss,
& we returned home Amy wanting to know when the next dance is to be
held.

We have a children's class once a month & ceilidh every 3 months.
On 07/11/2005, at 7:59 PM, mj.sheffield wrote:

> I don't know whether many of you organize or attend ceilidhs.
>
> We run one each month, open to all-comers, with varying success
> (!); it's always good fun, but I am constantly amazed and saddened
> by the lack of physical coordination and sense of rhythm of many
> members of the public.
> Is it the same in other countries? or is it something lacking in
> French education?
>
> At a ceilidh, I don't expect skip change or pdb, but I would like
> to see people matching their movements to the music. But, no. Not
> only have they never seen or heard of a waltz or polka, they can't
> even march/walk in time to the music (most of the dances we do to a
> walking step). Whatever their age group, they are like puppets
> without strings.
>
> Don't read me as scornful of these people; I feel it is so terribly
> sad that one can reach adulthood (even advanced adulthood) without
> ever having discovered something so satisfying as music and dance,
> pleasure in ones own movements, spontaneous physical expression. A
> great chunk of experience completely overlooked in schools.

Here in Aus they do do dancing in schools, but it is usually more
like jiving or flinging oneself about to the music!!! Outside school
there are many dancing schools, mostly ballet, not SCD. "Line
dancing" is very much the thing here also.
>
> This is quite off-topic, forgive me. It's not about the fun of
> social dancing. It's about education and today's "culture".
>
> I gather country dancing is being reintroducd in Scottish schools.
> Does anyone know of the result?
>
> Martin,
> in Grenoble, France
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43061 · Martin · 7 Nov 2005 15:56:53 · Top

Joan's family ceilidh sounds like a great event, and it's good to know that
some children get introduced to dance early. Not everyone has SCD
grandparents, however!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan Dahl"
> Granny-Jo had to buy her some dancing shoes in the morning!

Dancing shoes, too! Here we have to accept whatever people turn up in.
Regular dancers have ghillies or soft shoes, but for others ... these are
the rare occasions when I don't dance barefoot!

I don't teach any footwork, as I don't think the participants expect it or
want it, though newcomers see what the regulars do and sometimes imitate
them. They can attend classes if they want to learn more, but, on the
whole, once a month or so is quite enough. Not many under thirties seem to
want to devote more time than they need to such an unsexy occupation as SCD,
and, unfortunately, I don't thnk one can teach rhythmic stepping in oine
session. The one thing I do spend a little time on is the propelled pivot,
whihc is no fun if you can't feel the other person's weight -- or if you get
thrown off the floor!

French people, students, that have attended ceilidhs in Scotland find it an
unforgettable experience.
Some imagine they'll be able to recreate the atmosphere in France, and it is
quite fashionable now to have ceilidh dancing at a wedding party. Having
tried, I now pass on the name of musicians when asked, but have no intention
of tryng again to lead 100 neophytes through Dashing White Sergeant.

Martin

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43062 · Miriam L. Mueller · 7 Nov 2005 17:19:50 · Top

Martin Sheffield wrote:
I am constantly amazed and saddened by the lack of physical coordination
and sense of rhythm of many members of the public. Is it the same in
other countries? or is it something lacking in French education?

-----

There's a fair amount of that here in the US too. When I attended grade
school, standard first few grades' "physical education" included rhythmic
training: we walked, hopped, galloped, skipped, etc. in a circle to piano
rhythms supplied by the teacher. After the first time, we were expected
to shift our steps to match changes in the music. We also did traditional
American "play-party" games, done to sung verses (e.g. "Go in and out the
window").
By the time my children attended public school that had all been
dispensed with.

In my teens, social dancing (parties and dances) included a wide variety
of dances: fox-trot, lindy-hop, two-step, rhumba, samba, and for a few
who knew it, the tango. The band would play mostly the first two, but
after two or three dances of one rhythm it would then shift, and most of
us (teenagers) stayed on the floor for everything. I've often wondered if
learning to move to music at 6 - 8 years made possible such a wide
variety of social dancing.
The result was far more varied than what I have see on current dance
floors via TV.

Miriam Mueller - San Francisco
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43065 · Margaret Lambourne · 7 Nov 2005 18:41:30 · Top

I often call for ceilidhs both within the ex-pat community and the Dutch
one using musicians or cds and it is exactly as Martin says that many
people these days cannot even walk or skip in time to music and as for
waltz and polka - forget it. They have no idea.

I do exactly the same as Martin in calling the next 8 bars on about the
6th of the preceding phrase and you do have to learn to ignore a little
chaos and be clear and firm about the following instruction.

Sometimes you can actually gain one or two new recruits from it as well
but don't hold your breath. As long as everyone has a good time which
they usually do, that's all you can expect.

Margaret

Miriam L. Mueller wrote:
> Martin Sheffield wrote:
> I am constantly amazed and saddened by the lack of physical coordination
> and sense of rhythm of many members of the public. Is it the same in
> other countries? or is it something lacking in French education?
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43067 · Pia Walker · 7 Nov 2005 21:01:18 · Top

I find that the best way is just laughing it off - I have seen too many
RSCDS teachers try and do ceidlidh and 'visibly' cringing when things go
wrong - when the caller gets tense, the dancer gets tense and enjoyment
definitely disappears.

I think the trick is to forget that you are a teacher when calling a
ceidlidh, and see yourself as an entertainer - people are not there to
actually learn, but to enjoy themselves. If they feel they are being
judged, they will not come back for more - it is important to make them
confident enough to get on that floor and move to the music - the reason
they cannot move to music, is because they are worried about being critized
and therefore have never danced to anything. The caller's job is to get
them to forget their two left feet. If you really want to make a show of
it, then get a group of dancers together prior to the event and let them
work the floor - helping, pushing, pulling and counting. They can also show
how it is done first of all, then go around and get people up.

A ceidlidh is not a class situation.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Margaret Lambourne" <margaret.lambourne@planet.nl>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: ceilidhs

> I often call for ceilidhs both within the ex-pat community and the Dutch
> one using musicians or cds and it is exactly as Martin says that many
> people these days cannot even walk or skip in time to music and as for
> waltz and polka - forget it. They have no idea.
>
> I do exactly the same as Martin in calling the next 8 bars on about the
> 6th of the preceding phrase and you do have to learn to ignore a little
> chaos and be clear and firm about the following instruction.
>
> Sometimes you can actually gain one or two new recruits from it as well
> but don't hold your breath. As long as everyone has a good time which
> they usually do, that's all you can expect.
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> Miriam L. Mueller wrote:
> > Martin Sheffield wrote:
> > I am constantly amazed and saddened by the lack of physical coordination
> > and sense of rhythm of many members of the public. Is it the same in
> > other countries? or is it something lacking in French education?
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43070 · Ron Mackey · 7 Nov 2005 23:56:06 · Top

On 7 Nov 2005 at 20:01, Pia Walker wrote:
> I find that the best way is just laughing it off - I have seen too many
> RSCDS teachers try and do ceidlidh and 'visibly' cringing when things go
> wrong - when the caller gets tense, the dancer gets tense and enjoyment
> definitely disappears.

Hi, Pia
This is one of the things that I find incomprehensible in
SCD teachers. To get tense and upset because someone cannot
follow one's instructions seems to imply world shattering importance to
making a mistake.
I know what you are saying, Pia and feel that it is something
that we should address as often as we can. Most teachers are driven
be an intense belief that SCD is the best thing since, and should be
taken as often as sliced bread but a mistake is not so important as to
generate a frown. How can it be a cause of panic?
Others have suggested firmness of instruction. Might I expand
that to read 'smiling firmness'? And to join in the laughter when things
get b..x ... messed up!

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43073 · SMiskoe · 8 Nov 2005 00:51:58 · Top

I agree with Ron and Pia. If the people are smiling and trying and planning
on returning that is the point. The most recent class that I taught
combined ceilidh dances and SCD. Ceilidh for warm-up which we in the US insist on
doing, and for relief between the complexities of the SCD.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43081 · Pia Walker · 8 Nov 2005 09:57:48 · Top

I was in Brazil a couple of years ago, and took in a 'local' dance show -
dancers and musicians showing tourists their local stuff - which is a bit
like a ceilidh - except of course the entertainers wear 3 sequins and a
feather instead of woolly skirts / white dresses :>) The females anyway

As in a ceidlidh we were on the floor more often than not - doing SAMBA - as
one dancer said to me - in Brazil, we don't do anything else - whatever it
starts out as, it ends up as SAMBA. Out of all the audience, I must have
been the only one to stand in a corner with one of the dancers, actually
learning the steps - the rest of the crowd were bobbing up and down quite
merrily on the dance floor, not giving a flying fig if they were doing the
right steps, were in time to the music or anything else - but they all came
away with the feeling that they had participated in something brilliant.
That is the feeling we should give new dancers, the 'of course you can do
it - you have two feet haven't you?' As I have said to new dancers: "It
is amazing you arrive with a right foot and a left foot, and before the
evening is over, you have managed to get two left feet instead".:>)

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Mackey" <Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: ceilidhs

> On 7 Nov 2005 at 20:01, Pia Walker wrote:
> > I find that the best way is just laughing it off - I have seen too many
> > RSCDS teachers try and do ceidlidh and 'visibly' cringing when things go
> > wrong - when the caller gets tense, the dancer gets tense and enjoyment
> > definitely disappears.
>
> Hi, Pia
> This is one of the things that I find incomprehensible in
> SCD teachers. To get tense and upset because someone cannot
> follow one's instructions seems to imply world shattering importance to
> making a mistake.
> I know what you are saying, Pia and feel that it is something
> that we should address as often as we can. Most teachers are driven
> be an intense belief that SCD is the best thing since, and should be
> taken as often as sliced bread but a mistake is not so important as to
> generate a frown. How can it be a cause of panic?
> Others have suggested firmness of instruction. Might I expand
> that to read 'smiling firmness'? And to join in the laughter when things
> get b..x ... messed up!
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43112 · campbell · 9 Nov 2005 15:23:11 · Top

>> Sometimes you can actually gain one or two new recruits from it as well
>> but don't hold your breath. As long as everyone has a good time which
>> they usually do, that's all you can expect.
>>
>> Margaret
>>
I am often calling at ceilidhs and will take any opportunity to hold one,
particularly for younger people. They all have such a wonderful time, it
is an inspiration. SCD is SUCH GOOD FUN!! But how do we get them to make
the jump to REAL SCD. It seems that these days people are so reluctant to
make the commitment to a weekly class, or to get serious. The only
recruits I have made from these ceilidhs are those who I know or get to
know personally. The others all say "great, thank you, we had a wonderful
time" and then walk off into the sunset!

Campbell
Cape Town
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43113 · Pia Walker · 9 Nov 2005 16:12:21 · Top

As long as they walk off with a positive impression - Just because they do
not join up immediately, doesn't mean that they cannot / will not return at
some stage in their lives - if they go away with a negative impression you
have lost them forever.

In business we have Target groups, potential customers and customers - it is
no different in dancing - you also have old customers, and they are the
easiest to convert to a sale - how many groups actually keep in contact with
the dancers that are not returning to a) find out why they are not there any
more, and b) Would they not like to return?

Sorry probably preaching here - but until people are 6 feet under, they are
still potential dancers.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: <campbell@tyler.co.za>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: ceilidhs

> >> Sometimes you can actually gain one or two new recruits from it as well
> >> but don't hold your breath. As long as everyone has a good time which
> >> they usually do, that's all you can expect.
> >>
> >> Margaret
> >>
> I am often calling at ceilidhs and will take any opportunity to hold one,
> particularly for younger people. They all have such a wonderful time, it
> is an inspiration. SCD is SUCH GOOD FUN!! But how do we get them to make
> the jump to REAL SCD. It seems that these days people are so reluctant to
> make the commitment to a weekly class, or to get serious. The only
> recruits I have made from these ceilidhs are those who I know or get to
> know personally. The others all say "great, thank you, we had a wonderful
> time" and then walk off into the sunset!
>
> Campbell
> Cape Town
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43058 · Bryan McAlister · 7 Nov 2005 12:51:01 · Top

I'm afraid it's quite normal. I've also found that people don't
appreciate the need to listen to the Caller (except often that's true
also of RSCDS dancers).
I have found though that's it can be cured by the simple expedient of
ignoring the problem on the floor while giving firm calls at the right
time (i.e. in slight anticipation).
Typically when calling something like Flying Scotsman at a ceilidh, the
dance starts off way behind the music and the first 2 times through are
shambolic. By the 3rd time through the dancers are beginning to get it
and I stop there and announce that they've had their practice session
and we'll now do it at full speed. We don't actually speed up
significantly but the warning makes people concentrate more on their
timing.

The issue of the degree of anticipation that is required when calling is
interesting, I am usually calling an 8 bar sequence around the 6th bar
of the sequence before, except when it's schoolkids because they can
often react instantly without waiting for the start of the next 8 bars.
You just have to get the feel of a particular group of dancers..

In message <005101c5e381$f3125b40$13887a52@SN261100640125>, mj.sheffield
<mj.sheffield@wanadoo.fr> writes
>I don't know whether many of you organize or attend ceilidhs.
>
>We run one each month, open to all-comers, with varying success (!);
>it's always good fun, but I am constantly amazed and saddened by the
>lack of physical coordination and sense of rhythm of many members of
>the public.
>Is it the same in other countries? or is it something lacking in French
>education?
>
>At a ceilidh, I don't expect skip change or pdb, but I would like to
>see people matching their movements to the music. But, no. Not only
>have they never seen or heard of a waltz or polka, they can't even
>march/walk in time to the music (most of the dances we do to a walking
>step). Whatever their age group, they are like puppets without strings.

--
Bryan McAlister
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43060 · SMiskoe · 7 Nov 2005 15:36:16 · Top


In a message dated 11/7/2005 5:00:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mj.sheffield@wanadoo.fr writes:

Don't read me as scornful of these people; I feel it is so terribly sad that
one can reach adulthood (even advanced adulthood) without ever having
discovered something so satisfying as music and dance, pleasure in ones own
movements, spontaneous physical expression. A great chunk of experience
completely overlooked in schools.

I agree Martin. I see non=coordinated folks all the time. When I teach to
beginners I try to get them to feel the music and move with it. Sometimes
works. I also see folks trying so hard to 'get it right' that they are stiff
and can't move well.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43174 · Martin · 15 Nov 2005 10:18:23 · Top

A short while ago, I wrote how sad it was that so few people seem to have a
feeling for dance rhythms (as witnessed during all-public ceilidhs).

I ended with:
>
> I gather country dancing is being reintroduced in Scottish schools.

At another ceilidh recently organized by the anglophone community here in
Grenoble, I noticed, in the shuffling crowd, that the least co-ordinated
movements were those of a Scot. He later told me he'd had to do all that
kind of dancing when he was at school.
At least he joined in.
Other Scots I have met here are more likely to say: Country dancing? oh,
no. I had to do that at school.
Never again!

What is the world coming to?

Martin,
in Grenoble, France.

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43175 · Richard Goss · 15 Nov 2005 11:13:44 · Top

"What´s the world comming to"

In reference to Scots doing country dancing, where have you been? During my research in SCD during the 70´s & 80´s, I reported the same feeling as early as the middle 70´s.

Among the "natives" RSCDS style country dancing was something forced on them as children (meaning 40´s to 60´s), by Jordan Hill types, who got their certs as a part of the curriculum, had no real interest in country dancing beyond the fact that it was part of the curriculum - not at al the same attitude of say, Alastair Aitkenhead, and other RSCDS first, Jordan Hill second, types, who actually love[d] and lived for SCD. Too often, when teachers are simply following the curriculum, they project their negativity on to the students as attitude, and the idea that this is done, not for betterment or enjoyment, but because it, like grammar, sex education, and algebra, is simply a curriculum requirement. There is a similar problem going on in Spain this week, in that the left is changing the religious studies curriculum. While the vast majority of Spain is Catholic in name, the actual attendance at mass is in the single digits percentage wise. For example my village (pop 4000) has 2
churches (one second only to the cathedral in Palma), and 6 chapels. On any given Sunday total attendance would fit into one of the chapels (sort of better than the percentage of Scots doing SCD).

The problem is that after the initial enthusiasm of SCD at the founding of the Society, it soon became institutionalized (similar to Franco and the Catholic church). This process separated it from the people at large and the end result is irrevalence.

In the process of my studies, I made video tapes of country and celeidh dancing in Scotland for the School of Scottish Studies. As a part of the process, I sat down with representative groups of Scots in rural villages, and asked for comments. There was a spread of opinions that matched the ages of the respondent (older-more enthusiastic, younger-less). The vast majority of those who said they enjoyed SCD, it was as spectators, not participants. Typical responses ...
that is something we did in school
two twee
don´t feel comfortable dancing on, or pointing my toes
not any fun
too strict and formalized, prefer the freedom under the control of a village celeidh as opposed to an RSCDS type, excessively straight lines, "proper" handing and steps.

If we use a term such as "traditional or ethnic dancing", RSCDS dancing is neither, nor is it shared as an art form by more than a minority of the population in Scotland. Using St Andrews as an example, my years were the late 60´s to late 80´s, with a return two summers ago. On my first visit, at around age 28, I was way below average in age, now almost 40 years later, I am simply above average, because the avarage age has moved up, with the younger set visibly declining in numbers when I attend evey year, and has continued to do so since my absence.

A former student of mine attended that same summer with her son. One night, after the dancing at University Hall, we went to a St Andrews pub to hear Scottish traditional music. The process was quite a disappointment. As a former member of the St Andrews Folk Club (no longer functioning as such), and reporter for the "Citizen", the change was serious. First of all, none of the usual places for info had any knowledge of such an event, which I discovereds by looking up old friends in Bogward. In the crowded basement bar, the ambience was still there, but there were differences. While the music had changed little (though influence of Celtic rock music and Irish) and the musicians were of a similar age as in the past (university types, hippies, and secondary school groupies), the majority of the audience was made up of tourists who would have been there anyway if the music was jazz. Of the summer school population, only 4 (my former student, her son, an Australian, and myself). The son
caused a stir because he was actually wearing a kilt as if he owned it and had worn it all of his life (true), but everyone wanted to have their picture taken with him as an example of "typical" Scottish ambience.

It is interesting that this topic comes up so soon after Miss Gibson´s passing, as she, herself, was an outsider with little connection with SCD when she was first hired as secretary. While a great supporter of the work of the Society, she was worried even then about the disconnect between the RSCDS people and the population at large (bearing in mind that she was also a strong SNP supporter, if you don´t believe me, check out her Christmas cards).
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43176 · Norma or Mike Briggs · 15 Nov 2005 15:10:43 · Top

Richard, you lost me: who is Jordan Hill? what curriculum?

Mike
--
----------------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
----------------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
----------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43177 · ninian-uk · 15 Nov 2005 15:28:01 · Top

Mike, I'm sure Richard will explain more fully. Briefly..... Jordan Hill is
a western suburb of Glasgow, where a teacher-training college is situated.
I think it specialises in Physical Education, but Richard will explain.

David
Berkeley UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norma and Mike Briggs" <brigglaw@earthlink.net>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:10 PM
Subject: Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

> Richard, you lost me: who is Jordan Hill? what curriculum?
>
> Mike
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
> Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
> BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
> 1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
> ----------------------------------------------------
> www.briggslawoffice.com
> ----------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43178 · Kathleen Johnson · 15 Nov 2005 15:43:27 · Top

....and that area & college are actually
.........Jordanhill
Kay Munn

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43179 · Volleyballjerry · 15 Nov 2005 18:01:01 · Top

Have I missed something, or has nobody mentioned, in reference to Mike
Briggs's original question, that Jordanhill is where Jean Milligan was a
physical-education teacher when, in the early twenties, she conceived of the idea forming
the Scottish Country Dance Society and began her work of beginning to
research and restore the largely forgotten dance form?

Robb Quint
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43181 · Jim Healy · 15 Nov 2005 18:16:37 · Top

Robb Quint wrote:

>Jordanhill is where Jean Milligan was a physical-education teacher when,
>in the early twenties, she conceived of the idea forming the Scottish
>Country Dance Society and began her work of beginning to research
>and restore the largely forgotten dance form?

I think that pushes about four of Goss's hot buttons in one posting so I
will leave the field clear to him - for the moment.

Jim Healy
Monaco

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43183 · Richard Goss · 15 Nov 2005 18:20:45 · Top

Note my post written while yours was being posted. You seem to have bought into a myth that is simply not true.
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43184 · Richard Goss · 15 Nov 2005 18:20:49 · Top

Note my post written while yours was being posted. You seem to have bought into a myth that is simply not true.
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordanhill

Message 43185 · Volleyballjerry · 15 Nov 2005 18:23:24 · Top

Oh dear! What have I done now, Jim? I have no idea!

(In any case, better proofing by me is in order...it should have been
"...conceived the idea of...")

Robb

In a message dated 11/15/2005 9:17:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jimhealy@hotmail.com writes:

> Robb Quint wrote:
>
> >Jordanhill is where Jean Milligan was a physical-education teacher when,
> >in the early twenties, she conceived of the idea forming the Scottish
> >Country Dance Society and began her work of beginning to research
> >and restore the largely forgotten dance form?
>
> I think that pushes about four of Goss's hot buttons in one posting so I
> will leave the field clear to him - for the moment.
>
> Jim Healy
> Monaco
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43182 · Richard Goss · 15 Nov 2005 18:19:06 · Top

Miss M, in her professional life was a physical education teacher, trained at Bedford College in England. Eventually she became an instructor of physical education at Jordanhill, a teacher´s training college, which is how she met Mrs Stewart through Paterson´s publications, and we were off.

I am aware of the story that Mrs M learned her country dancing in Scotland (references to her mother and Dancie Reid, etc. abound). Unfortunately there is no evidence that this was true. My theory is that she picked up her country dancing in Bedford College in England, which was heavily enfluenced by C# and the EFDSS, and consciously or subconsciously got the idea of doing the same thing in Scotland. This is primarily based on seveal facts.
1. no supporting evidence of the Scottish influence prior to the Society (even the original by-laws and early publications refer to "country dancing as danced in Scotland" as opposed to a separate art form called "Scottish country dancing" - in other words, the original words seem to imply that we were a Scottish society involved in country dancing, as opposed to Scottish country dancing.
2. the Bedford folk dance curriculum in Miss M´s time predated a very similar one that she introduced in Scotland later, and expanded on after the Society was founded, as her professional life there continued - literally most of the PE teachers in Scotland from the end of WWI through the end of WWII passed through her hands.
3. In McFadzean´s RSCDS "house" biography of Miss M, and earlier in her story as she told it, she was a founder of the Beltane Society in Glasgow which had a similar goal to that of the Society later. In the story, it is said that to promote her cause she put on a demo in Glasgow (the bio includes a copy of the program). All of the dances performed were already published by the EFDSS prior to her attending Bedford, and are still a part of the EFDSS, but not all are a part of the RSCDS repertoire.
4. The reference to Miss M as the (singular) "co-founder" does not appear until after WWII, and prior to that time, her name, simply one of many "co-founders", is always, up to that time in alphabetical order with all the others, unless there is a specific reference to some committee of which she was chairing at the time. I believe the "founder" was Miss Stewart, as an extension of her work with the Girl Guides. Paterson´s has a number of books including 2 of Irish country dancing that follow the same format as that of the original RSCDS publications, 12 dances, notes to the left, music to the right, adverts for other Patterson publications in the back. Of the other "co-founders" prior to Miss M having the single title, Mrs Stewart had moved to South Africa, and Miss Anderson (founded Edinburgh as branch 2, and produced Border Book from material collected by Jamieson) strangely disappeared from HQ activities at about the time Miss M took control. It was customary to list in the
minutes of meetings those who attended, those who did not, and those who sent their appologies (Miss Anderson simply stopped attending and sent no appology). While it is probably true that Miss M had a important roll to play in editing the dance notes for publication (reason for Paterson´s suggesting her to Miss Stewart), and she did found the Glasgow Branch, the founding of Edinburgh was independent, and that of Dundee was through Mrs Stewart (references to an interview with Miss Kirk who was already an important person with Dundee dancing before she ever heard of Miss M.)
5. The first books published by the Society included dances that were currently done in Scotland, and currently in print either by the EFDSS or Scottish or other British publishers. It is obvious that the early Society had a great influence on these as when the Society created the its 8 bar progressive pousette and allemande, many of these also dropped the traditional versions and adopted ours.

The point of my previous post was not to knock Miss Milligan´s efforts, because they obviously paid off both for us, and country dancing in Scotland, especially since it is my opinion that the RSCDS is much more successful in spreading its word than the EFDSS, probably because of the force of Miss M´s vision, philosophy, and leadership.

What bothers me, as a retired teacher by profession, is that often the visionaries have great ideas and inspire many. The problems come when the idea goes professional. Whereas I have never taught dance as a part of a school curriculum, I have very negative feelings about the P.E. establishment in the American schools and universities where I have taught, and also those primary and secondary in the UK where I have only observed. Most PE types in my experience, get into the profession because they are good at and like a particular activity. The problem comes with certification which requires that they know about a large number of activities, and have to teach to a curriculum where they have no particular interest. When this is matched with a school where the curriculum demands activities in which the teacher has no interest, it is often a disaster for that subject in connection to the kids, who also learn that this something to do because it is required, the do it, then quickly shelve
it.

In my last high school, it was cool to be in the band, which involved one out of every seven kids in the school (about 250 total), there was a large parent booster organization raising funds, their bingo games brought in 50.000 per year and gave the parents a life. The problem is that 50% of the year was spent in preparing and performing a 15 minute half time show at the weekly football game, which was really a practice for competition band tournaments (we hardly ever lost, and were picked for international performances including the Royal Tournament at Earlscourt). In the second half of the year the band was divided into sub units, where performances were all practices for some kind of music festival. As a result, very few of my former students have any connection with music after high school. I know of one, who discovered music in his second year at university and sent home for his trumpet so he could play with a (non curricular jazz group), just for fun.

The same thing is happening all over the U.S. with sports, where the pressure is to win for the parents and home school. As a result, most of the student-athletes never play again after high school.

These are the attitudes I found reflected in the responses to my questions asked of the non country dancing population of Scotland between the middle 70´s to middle 80´s. Both in America, and the UK, when it comes to music, dance, sports, and similar activities, the move is from heavy overheated involvement in school, followed by graduation to the rank of spectator for life. Sad.

As a slightly off topic, but related aside, there is a parallel problem with education. There was a time when School was a place to work to get an education. Current trends point to the school as a holding place to entertain children, while dealing with a vast number of problems that have nothing to do with the basics. I was unaware of the trend when I was in a private school and was a bit shocked with the reality in the state system. In my high school, we had 6 classes that were all basics (solids we used to say). At the same time (on my time, outside class hours, and for no grades or credit - I played football, swam, ran track, was in the choir, religious studies, library aid, band, journalish, and student government). The only thing of these that I am no longer involved with is football (but only since 1999). All these things were as educational for me as the academic curriculum - unfortunately if you read the papers about events in schools (mom takes out a hit on head
cheerleader´s mother to give her daughter a chance, police charge parent for attacking another parent or coach during a sporting event, a kid who is socially unhappy brings a gun to school and starts killing kids and teachers) - for me all of these are tied to a response to the school in a roll for which it was never intended.

Returning to SCD, over the years reading and posting here, one might notice that some posts really set me off. This is not because they are stupid or unimportant, but, to me, because the answers to the questions, if followed, are often counterproductive for the survival of country dancing in Scotland. In my experience many people are not dancing for themselves or the set, but for that imaginary point of view of the set from the outside, I call it demonstration-team-itis. Over the years in teacher´s committee meetings and weekend classes, I am always running into those who ask as if their life depended on it, questions such as where is my right hand on the 2nd beat of the 3rd bar of rights and lefts ( hopefully at one´s side, with the thumb turned out in line at right angles to a line drawn from the tip of one´s nose to the center of the back of one´s head - this is in response to an excessive emphasis on turnout for feet).

In an earlier thread, I think this is where the Society is guilty in its "change" in ladies´ chain. The figure has been around for over a century, it is only when a nearsighted person decided to deconstruct it that the words, diagrams, descriptions got complicated, and the dancing public when confronted with this type of stuff, simply can not be bothered, and opts out.
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43193 · Eric Clyde · 16 Nov 2005 04:59:40 · Top

I can't add much to what Richard has written except to note that, in her
visits to Ottawa, Miss M. frequently made mention of trying to bring
back the dancing the way it used to be done in Scotland, and of querying
older dancers, including her mother, on how the steps and formations
used to be done. This may confirm Richard's theory of her learning
country dancing when she went to England.

Eric Clyde
Ottawa Branch

Richard Goss wrote:

>Miss M, in her professional life was a physical education teacher, trained at Bedford College in England. Eventually she became an instructor of physical education at Jordanhill, a teacher´s training college, which is how she met Mrs Stewart through Paterson´s publications, and we were off.
>
>I am aware of the story that Mrs M learned her country dancing in Scotland (references to her mother and Dancie Reid, etc. abound). Unfortunately there is no evidence that this was true. My theory is that she picked up her country dancing in Bedford College in England, which was heavily enfluenced by C# and the EFDSS, and consciously or subconsciously got the idea of doing the same thing in Scotland. This is primarily based on seveal facts.
>
>

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43210 · Brian Charlton · 19 Nov 2005 02:19:48 · Top

G'Day, All,

I thought you may be interested in the comment by Jean London, who passed
her Certificate to teach the dances in Book 1 in May 1932 and received her
full Certificate in January 1933 (she was Jean Gillespie then). In her Scrap
Book, there is a photograph of Jean Milligan with the commentary "Miss Jean
Milligan Glasgow with Annie Shand (and Mrs Stewart of Fasnacloich)
Co-founders of the Scottish Country Dance Society in 1923". I note that it
is Annie Shand who is credited as being the co-founder, even though, as we
know, Ysobel Stewart had a large influence and was Secretary of the Society,
signing both of Jean's Certificates.

Jean was born in Rockhampton, Queensland and lived in Vaucluse in Sydney
before going to Britain in the early 30's. She had done Country Dancing with
her parents in their Vaucluse home. After her return to Austealia, she was
instrumental in forming the Rose Bay Scottish Dance Circle in 1934, which
eventually formed the basis for Sydney Branch. Jean was appointed by the
Society as its representative in Australia in 1946 (this letter is signed by
Muriel Hadden).

Brian Charlton,
Sydney, Australia

On 11/16/05, Eric Clyde <eclyde@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> I can't add much to what Richard has written except to note that, in her
> visits to Ottawa, Miss M. frequently made mention of trying to bring
> back the dancing the way it used to be done in Scotland, and of querying
> older dancers, including her mother, on how the steps and formations
> used to be done. This may confirm Richard's theory of her learning
> country dancing when she went to England.
>
> Eric Clyde
> Ottawa Branch
>
> Richard Goss wrote:
>
> >Miss M, in her professional life was a physical education teacher,
> trained at Bedford College in England. Eventually she became an instructor
> of physical education at Jordanhill, a teacher´s training college, which is
> how she met Mrs Stewart through Paterson´s publications, and we were off.
> >
> >I am aware of the story that Mrs M learned her country dancing in
> Scotland (references to her mother and Dancie Reid, etc. abound).
> Unfortunately there is no evidence that this was true. My theory is that she
> picked up her country dancing in Bedford College in England, which was
> heavily enfluenced by C# and the EFDSS, and consciously or subconsciously
> got the idea of doing the same thing in Scotland. This is primarily based on
> seveal facts.
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Jordan Hill (was ceilidhs)

Message 43211 · Richard Goss · 19 Nov 2005 09:31:28 · Top

When evaluating a piece of evidence one must look at its source. The key elements here are the dates and sources of the information contained.

Most important is the fact that it was a 1946 letter of Miss Hadden.
The earliest documented reference I could find of Miss Milligan being <<The>> co-founder was about 1945-1946, by which time other candidates were no longer involved (Mrs Stewart was in South Africa, and Miss Anderson was limiting her activities to the Edinburgh Branch), so Miss M no longer had any competition for the title. Additionally, the first secretary of the society since that time who was not completely dominated by Miss M, was the late Miss Gibson.

So all this letter implies is that after there was no competition for the title, Miss M declared herself "the co founder." As no one has cited the publication date of Jean Gillespie-London´s book, it is safe to assume that, as with many within the Society, she, as a Milligan follower is simply going along with the Milligan myth as she was not around at the time of the founding, nor was she in Scotland at the time when the myth arose. Technicly there were many co-founders of equal rank, if not influence of Miss M. As I mentioned before, from the earliest days, Mrs Stewart´s name was always on top and out of alphabetical sequence, while Miss M´s was always farther down in alphabetical sequence, except when some rotating position placed her higher up in the list of officers.

A parallel example. In Los Angeles, a group of folk dancers started a group called the Los Angeles S.C.D., its founding teacher was the late C.S.Smith from San Francisco at the time. Later I joined the group, and though on the dem team was not in the first teacher´s training class. We had no official organization as the entire operation was started and headed by David Brandon, who would be called the founder of the group. Miss M came, gave the teacher´s exams in which 5 teachers were passed (2 failed). In violation of the rules, two of the 4, David Brandon and John Tiffany were given a second exam allowing them to become fully certificated and the LASCD was elegible to move from affiliated to branch status. David appointed me chairman of an ad hoc committee to prepare the paperwork for Edinburgh and the branch´s first by-laws. In the first branch committee of management, I was the first treasurer. With the passing of David Brandon, the founder, it is fair to say that the co founders
of the branch were the first branch committee, teachers, dem team members (pretty much the same people in all three cases). Of my bylaws committee of 4, David Brandon has passed on, Ruth Garber is no longer dancing, I don´t know what happened to Iris and have not seen or heard of her in over 20 years, so that leaves me. Of the remaining 4 teachers, I know of three who are still dancing, but not particulary Scottish (Don Green, Anthony Ivancich, and John Tiffney), and one is not (Larry White), all of these were out of the branch picture by the early 70´s. Though I only took the certificate after L.A. became a branch I had already been teaching with David Brandon during the LASCD period, so this makes me <<A>> "co-founder", but calling myself <<THE>> co-founder would only be justified because I am the only living co-founder who has any connection with the movement.


_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

The Founder (was Jordanhill, etc.)

Message 43214 · Terry Glasspool · 20 Nov 2005 06:41:26 · Top

What with all the discussion of founders and co-founders I thought it might
be appropriate to share this dance written for Gini Grover, the founder of
my SCD group in Binghamton, NY. She only taught occasionally but one of the
dances I remember her trying was The Royal Wedding. She is no longer dancing
but still comes regularly on Wednesdays to guide our highland dancers. In
addition to echoes of The Royal Wedding, the figures of the dance represent
first couple reaching out to include, and then dance with, others.

Terry Glasspool
Upstate NY, USA
___________
The Founder

A 32 bar strathspey for 3 couples
by Terry Glasspool

1-8
1st couple dance a full figure of eight down through and around 2nd couple.

9-16
1st and 2nd couples dance the targe progression:
9-10: partners turn 3/4 to form a momentary line up and down the center of
the dance.
11-12: 1M2W turn 3/4 in the center while 1W & 2M dance clockwise around them
to form a momentary line of four across the dance.
13-14: partners turn 3/4 to finish on the sides of the dance, 1C on the
women's side facing down, 2C on the men's side facing up.
15-16: all four chase one place clockwise to progressed places.

17-24
(During these eight bars, the corners should face in on the diagonal and set
whenever they are not being turned by 1st couple.)
1C set, advancing toward 1st corners.
1C turn 1cor with both hands, 1W finishing between 2C, 1M finishing between
3C, 1cor return to facing diagonally.
1C, facing each other up and down, set, advancing toward 2nd corners.
1C turn 2cor with both hands, finishing on the sides facing toward 1cor.

25-32
All dance reels of three on the sides of the dance, 1C giving LS to 1cor to
begin the reel.
1C cross to own sides on 31-32.

Repeat, having passed a couple.

This dance is for Gini Grover of Binghamton, NY.

Music: any good strathspey. I like to use the version of The Royal Wedding
by George Meikle, on Highlander Socttish Dances Vol 10. In addition to being
another Royal Wedding reference, it has a different feel than other versions
of this dance.

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

The Founder (was Jordanhill, etc.)

Message 43215 · Peter McClure · 20 Nov 2005 23:39:21 · Top

>Music: any good strathspey. I like to use the version of The Royal Wedding
>by George Meikle, on Highlander Socttish Dances Vol 10. In addition to being
>another Royal Wedding reference, it has a different feel than other versions
>of this dance.
>

Many thanks for the dance; I know we will enjoy it. Just to be
sure, is it your intention that the corners dance all eight bars of
17-24; so that, for example, the second corners would set to each
other diagonally three times, before turning with the first couple?

I also want to support the remark about the music. The late Bobby
Frew also recorded a very nice set for The Royal Wedding; on vinyl
only, I believe, and hard to find now. FWIW, it has been pointed out
to me that the tune, Our Highland Queen, is designated as a pastoral
air by the composer; in any case, for my taste, the very bouncy
version chosen by RSCDS does not suit it.

Peter McClure
Winnipeg, MB
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

The Founder (was Jordanhill, etc.)

Message 43216 · Terry Glasspool · 21 Nov 2005 03:21:41 · Top

On 20/11/2005 5:39 PM, Peter McClure wrote:
> Just to be
> sure, is it your intention that the corners dance all eight bars of
> 17-24; so that, for example, the second corners would set to each
> other diagonally three times, before turning with the first couple?

Hi Peter,

Yes, that is correct. First corners would set to each other diagonally once
before and twice after turning the first couple. -tg

Terry Glasspool
Upstate NY, USA

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

The Founder (was Jordanhill, etc.)

Message 43219 · George Meikle · 21 Nov 2005 09:59:23 · Top

What a good choice of music - if I might say so!
Payment will follow!!!!!!

I also heartily agree with Peter's comments about 'Our Highland Queen' being
a pastoral and I personally dislike the 'bouncy' version the RSCDS used
intensely. I feel it is almost sacrilege that such a beautiful tune was
butchered in such a way. I personally always play 'Our Highland Queen' in
the 'pastoral style' and the VAST majority of dancers comments to me appear
to show that they prefer the pastoral version.

(NB - please do not let this posting be an excuse to start a long debate on
pastorals v strathspeys controversy, it is just my own view on how a
beautiful tune has been used totally out of its original context.)

George Meikle
Lothian Scottish Dance Band

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-george.meikle=btinternet.com@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-george.meikle=btinternet.com@strathspey.org] On
Behalf Of Peter McClure
Sent: 20 November 2005 22:39
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: The Founder (was Jordanhill, etc.)

>Music: any good strathspey. I like to use the version of The Royal Wedding
>by George Meikle, on Highlander Socttish Dances Vol 10. In addition to
being
>another Royal Wedding reference, it has a different feel than other
versions
>of this dance.
>

Many thanks for the dance; I know we will enjoy it. Just to be
sure, is it your intention that the corners dance all eight bars of
17-24; so that, for example, the second corners would set to each
other diagonally three times, before turning with the first couple?

I also want to support the remark about the music. The late Bobby
Frew also recorded a very nice set for The Royal Wedding; on vinyl
only, I believe, and hard to find now. FWIW, it has been pointed out
to me that the tune, Our Highland Queen, is designated as a pastoral
air by the composer; in any case, for my taste, the very bouncy
version chosen by RSCDS does not suit it.

Peter McClure
Winnipeg, MB
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Banff weekend

Message 43251 · Marian Stroh · 28 Nov 2005 05:02:28 · Top

Can anyone tell me if the Banff Springs dance weekend is still being held? And if so, whom to contact for information? We just watched a wonderful presentation on PBS about the Canadian Pacific lodges which brought back good memories of the Banff Springs Hotel, and we're looking for a good excuse to go back there.

Marian Stroh
Reno, NV
mstrohinreno@charter.net _______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Banff weekend

Message 43252 · simon scott · 28 Nov 2005 06:26:07 · Top

Hi Marian
No, the Banff Workshop has not been held for a long time. It was a
wonderful event for many years. Sorry to disappoint you. I also have
great memories of those workshops.
Simon
Vancouver

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org] On
Behalf Of Marian Stroh
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:02 PM
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Banff weekend

Can anyone tell me if the Banff Springs dance weekend is still being
held? And if so, whom to contact for information? We just watched a
wonderful presentation on PBS about the Canadian Pacific lodges which
brought back good memories of the Banff Springs Hotel, and we're looking
for a good excuse to go back there.

Marian Stroh
Reno, NV
mstrohinreno@charter.net
_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

ceilidhs

Message 43190 · John Chambers · 15 Nov 2005 23:18:56 · Top

Martin remarked:
| A short while ago, I wrote how sad it was that so few people seem to have a
| feeling for dance rhythms (as witnessed during all-public ceilidhs).
|
| I ended with:
| >
|
| At another ceilidh recently organized by the anglophone community here in
| Grenoble, I noticed, in the shuffling crowd, that the least co-ordinated
| movements were those of a Scot. He later told me he'd had to do all that
| kind of dancing when he was at school.
| At least he joined in.
| Other Scots I have met here are more likely to say: Country dancing? oh,
| no. I had to do that at school.
| Never again!
|
| What is the world coming to?

That's quite normal. Here in the US, it's common for schools to teach
American square dance in the early grades. The result is that a large
majority will never again come near such dancing.

The main problem seems to be that it's very difficult to teach dance
in a school setting in a manner that isn't humiliating to most of the
kids when they don't "get it" the first time. There are some teachers
who can manage the task, but most teachers just instill a
determination not to be made a fool of in public again.

If you really want the kids to learn any particular sort of dance, a
much better approach would be to forbid it as an "adult" thing. Then
the kids would be studying it in secret at every opportunity.

_______________________________________________
http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

Previous thread: David Houston/Austin/IBM is out of the office.
Next thread: Miss Gibsons Reel (original instructions request)
A Django site.