strathspey Archive: 9/8 vs 6/8

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42267 · SMiskoe · 23 Sep 2005 02:14:53 · Top

Here's a new thread for the historians. Does anyone know why dances
originally done in 9/8 rhythm were massaged into 6/8. Why 9/8 died out in SCD while
it stayed alive in ECD. And when did this all happen.
Woo'd and Married an A' is from the Wilson collection, 1816 and was issued
in book 16 in 1956. Every time I have played it I felt that the tune was
really supposed to be 9/8. I just 'invested' in some nice music collections and
discovered Woo'd and Married and A' is printed as from the Brem Collection
and is in 9/8. The 2 melody lines are virtually the same.
We dance Strip the Willow in 9/8 with a running step. Why not these other
old dances?
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42268 · Steve Wyrick · 23 Sep 2005 02:33:24 · Top

SMiskoe@aol.com wrote:

> Here's a new thread for the historians. Does anyone know why dances
> originally done in 9/8 rhythm were massaged into 6/8. Why 9/8 died out in
> SCD while
> it stayed alive in ECD. And when did this all happen.
> Woo'd and Married an A' is from the Wilson collection, 1816 and was issued
> in book 16 in 1956. Every time I have played it I felt that the tune was
> really supposed to be 9/8. I just 'invested' in some nice music collections
> and
> discovered Woo'd and Married and A' is printed as from the Brem Collection
> and is in 9/8. The 2 melody lines are virtually the same.
> We dance Strip the Willow in 9/8 with a running step. Why not these other
> old dances?
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

I don't know the answer but I'm betting Goss will say it's Miss Milligan's
fault! ;-) -Steve

--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42271 · McBride, Ann · 23 Sep 2005 03:13:38 · Top


I just did a quick calculation - it is now 3:08am (or thereabouts) on Friday
morning in Mall orca -- so methinks by the time we (on the West Coast of the
US) wake up tomorrow morning Richard will have provided us with the answer
in 10,000 words or less - and, of course, why Miss Milligan changed it!
Sorry Richard - couldn't help myself!

Ann McBride
Los Angeles

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42280 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 07:59:03 · Top

Good morning, Anne. Your clock is not quite correct. Here I get up at 06:00 (problem with having stone masons in the house - it is hard to stay in bed), so your time (I forget exactly) it is either 21:00 or 22:00 last night. The only reason I am late with my mail this morning is that I am installing the dirt part of my roof garden and I wanted to get rid of last night´s load in time to get a new load before it got too hot. The garden is not large 40x40x300cm, but that is a lot of dirt to carry up three floors.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42282 · Wouter Joubert · 23 Sep 2005 08:53:16 · Top

Not much help with the when or where but I have always loved 9/8 rhythm
since being introduced to it through Irish dancing.

Skip change as we know it does not fit to 9/8 but I enjoy the running
step (with a wee, wee bit of Irish flair). Can't say that the rest of
our group does though.

We once had a gentleman come to dancing doing the steps the military way
which I thought quite pretty in itself but he never came back after the
unrelenting insistence from one of our club's founding members that he
had to dance "our" way.

The culprit who dropped 9/8 from SCD seems to be standardisation then.

Wouter Joubert

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42279 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 07:54:09 · Top

"Fault" please. This is a negative term. Only uptight anal retentives, unable to accept the concepts of two possible rights (as opposed right/wrong) and degrees of right, Equate disagreement as defacto negative.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42294 · Steve Wyrick · 23 Sep 2005 15:36:24 · Top

Richard, it would be a lot easier to follow your replies if you quoted the
previous message...

Well, assuming this is aimed at me, I do consider this a bad decision, since
there are a lot of great 9/8 tunes out there that we can no longer use
unless someone cleverly converts them to 6/8, and I assume it's the same
with the dances that went with them. If ECD and Scottish step dance could
retain or recreate the 9/8 dances I don't see why the RSCDS couldn't. -Steve

Richard Goss wrote:

> "Fault" please. This is a negative term. Only uptight anal retentives, unable
> to accept the concepts of two possible rights (as opposed right/wrong) and
> degrees of right, Equate disagreement as defacto negative.
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42295 · SMiskoe · 23 Sep 2005 15:41:09 · Top


In a message dated 9/23/2005 9:37:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
sjwyrick@astound.net writes:

lot of great 9/8 tunes out there that we can no longer use
unless someone cleverly converts them to 6/8

Don't. There's a lot lost in translation and the tune cries to be put back
in 9/8.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42296 · Ian Brockbank · 23 Sep 2005 16:05:26 · Top

Syliva wrote (in reply to Steve):

> lot of great 9/8 tunes out there that we can no longer use
> unless someone cleverly converts them to 6/8
>
> Don't. There's a lot lost in translation and the tune cries
> to be put back in 9/8.

Woo'd and Married an A' is a perfect example of what goes wrong.
In 6/8, as published by the RSCDS, (achieved by taking 9/8 and
extending the last note over the following 3 quavers*)
Dum da diddly | daaaaaaaa de | dum da diddly | daaaaaaaa
de | diddly diddly | daaaaaaaa de | dum de diddly | daaaaaaaa

Very laborious and galumphing - stops at the end of every second bar.

In 9/8:

Dum da diddly daa de | dum da diddly daa
de | diddly diddly daa de | dum de diddly daa

Much more lively, rolls along - actually quite a nice tune!

- Dum da is crotchet followed by quaver
- diddly is three quavers
- de is the quaver up-beat
- daa is a crotchet (so "daa de" is the same as "dum da", except
there's a phrase break)
- daaaaaaaaaaa is far too long a note (must be 5 quavers, or maybe
it's 4 plus a 2-quaver up-beat) which completely stops the tune
in its tracks.

*For the Americans+, a crotchet is a quarter note and a quaver is an
eighth note.
+Or is it everyone except us Brits?

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42299 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 16:27:17 · Top

Most American musicians I know (at least those trained), know the difference between a minim and a hemi-semi-dimi-quaver.

My American handicap, having sung numbers from "Sound of Music" in concert is the 7th tone of the scale.

Remember the "... tea, a drink with jam and bread...", here in Spain, and much of Europe, including the Austria of María Von Trapp, it is "si" which simply does not work with the song.

First noticed the problem when my music teacher here (oboe) said what sounded like "c" and even though my pitch indicator told me I was right, she kept indicating that I was sharp. I was thinking of the name of the note - tonic C on the scale, and she was speaking of solfa "si" which is the 7th note of the scale, "B".

My only objection with minims etc. is that one must translate to do the math.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42300 · John Chambers · 23 Sep 2005 16:36:59 · Top

Pat wrote:
| Sylvia wrote:
| > Here's a new thread for the historians. Does anyone know why dances
| > originally done in 9/8 rhythm were massaged into 6/8. Why
| > 9/8 died out in SCD while
| > it stayed alive in ECD. And when did this all happen.
|
| I *think* it has to do with the standardised footwork now used by SCD. I
| don't think it's possible to do skip-change, at least as we know it, to 3
| beats to the bar. I had a clearer idea of all this a few years ago after
| reading some of Emmerson's books.

Actually, if you watch Irish step dancers doing a slip jig, you'll
see the obvious solution. They just repeat the first half of the
step, so you get R-L-R-L-R-pause, and then the mirror image. It
probably doesn't take any teaching. But it does cause a lot more
side-to-side motion.

Still, my immediate guess was the same. I've noticed that most
dancers really don't (and often can't) distinguish jigs from reels.
They do the same steps to all SCD, and the only difference in the
footwork is the slower tempo for strathspeys. For a slipjig, you
would actually have to change the footwork. The change is trivial,
but it is a change. Going from jig to reel is merely a tiny change in
the rhythm, with the same footwork.

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42302 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 18:29:42 · Top

One need not go to Ireland for a solution as there are steps in the Highland Dance, sub designation "nationals" called the Scottish Lilt that would work, assuming that the slip jig is played at a reasonable speed, as in "Battle of the Somme" [?spelling¿].

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42335 · Patricia Ruggiero · 27 Sep 2005 04:53:19 · Top

John wrote (while I was away):

> Actually, if you watch Irish step dancers doing a slip jig, you'll
> see the obvious solution. They just repeat the first half of the
> step, so you get R-L-R-L-R-pause, and then the mirror image.

I agree. After I signed off Thursday night, I tried it and the solution was
as obvious as you say. In fact, I remembered a couple of English dances
with setting in 3/2 time, with that extra L-R.

Maybe because we don't dance in 9/8, skip-changing around the house with an
extra step-close on each side felt tiring and less graceful. I have to
think, though, that it would be otherwise if these "extended" steps were a
part of our step repertoire.

Pat

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42308 · Steve Wyrick · 24 Sep 2005 04:34:02 · Top

SMiskoe@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 9/23/2005 9:37:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> sjwyrick@astound.net writes:
>
> lot of great 9/8 tunes out there that we can no longer use
> unless someone cleverly converts them to 6/8
>
>
> Don't. There's a lot lost in translation and the tune cries to be put back
> in 9/8.
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

Yes, I was mostly being ironic but that doesn't translate well to print!
I've only heard a couple of these conversions that I thought sounded decent.
One is The Old Dutch Churn, which is a fairly popular tune in Cape Breton in
6/8. In this case the shift from 9/8 to 6/8 was done by changing the 1st 2
notes of each measure (always a quarter and an eighth) to dotted quarters.
I play both versions, for different dance groups (Scottish step and Cape
Breton hardshoe) and to me it works well either way. -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42310 · John Chambers · 25 Sep 2005 02:12:37 · Top

Ron Mackey wrote:
|
| > Actually, if you watch Irish step dancers doing a slip jig, you'll
| > see the obvious solution. They just repeat the first half of the
| > step, so you get R-L-R-L-R-pause, and then the mirror image. It
| > probably doesn't take any teaching. But it does cause a lot more
| > side-to-side motion.
|
| Makes the PdeB heavy going though! :~)
| Regards, Ron

This is probably why slip jigs tend to be a bit slower than SCD 6/8
jigs. I think step dancers like the slower tempo because of things
like this. Many of the steps are elaborated versions of the 6/8 steps,
so many of the steps would feel better at a slower tempo.

Of course, when I've worked with step dancers, I've found that every
dance has its own particular tempo, which is also different for
different dancers.

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42314 · Ron Mackey · 25 Sep 2005 23:52:46 · Top

On 25 Sep 2005 at 0:12, John Chambers wrote:

> Of course, when I've worked with step dancers, I've found that every
> dance has its own particular tempo, which is also different for
> different dancers.

I've noticed the same when watching a sword dance. Certainly
I never got used to the Gillie Cullum being played too quickly - or too
slowly for that matter. Whether others feel the same dancing
Broadswords I don't know. Certainly the team I used to dance it with all
preferred a modest tempo.
There seems to be more latitude with the Fling. In dems of
Ladies Step I've quite often thought some seemed to be struggling with
a slow pace. I suppose it's like any dancing (esp. strathspeys) one
has to be very strong to dance (well) slowly.

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42315 · Richard Goss · 26 Sep 2005 07:21:28 · Top

Of course latitude is a matter of taste when regards to the fling. If the country dance "Glasgow Highlanters" is played to strict RSCDS tempo, a la post WYJTD Blue II, one dies on ones feet with the fling steps, but not with the Glasgow Highlander´s setting step.

Another factor is one of age, I find that at 65 I would prefer strathspey, and "ladies" steps a little faster than slower.
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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42318 · William & Shellagh Whyte · 26 Sep 2005 14:34:05 · Top

I received my copy of the "SCOTTISH country dancer" this morning, a magazine
which replaces the previous Bulletin. It was delivered direct to me in
Southern France.

One of the changes brought in by the new management system, it contains a
wide range of material, with a good balance between heavy and light.

If you are a member you may well get it direct, otherwise through your
Branch. If you aren't a member, this is another reason to join the RSCDS.
Or rather two, since the magazine will be issued twice a year.

William

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42325 · redrose_solutions · 26 Sep 2005 19:48:18 · Top

Thank you, William - glad to hear the magazine is actually out there now!

If you are a RSCDS member and your Branch has provided your address to RSCDS
HQ at Coates Crescent for inclusion in the new members' database, or if you
are a HQ member whose details are held at HQ already, the magazine should
reach you directly (that's the intention, anyway, although we are aware that
distribution is only as good as the address data and postal systems).

Susi

Susi Mayr
Vienna, Austria (& RSCDS Management Board)
susi@redrose.co.at

>-- Original Message --
>From: "William & Shellagh Whyte" <wlwhyte@attglobal.net>
>To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:34:05 +0200
>Subject: New RSCDS members' magazine
>Reply-To: William & Shellagh Whyte <wlwhyte@attglobal.net>,
> SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>
>
>I received my copy of the "SCOTTISH country dancer" this morning, a magazine
>which replaces the previous Bulletin. It was delivered direct to me in
>Southern France.
>
>One of the changes brought in by the new management system, it contains
a
>wide range of material, with a good balance between heavy and light.
>
>If you are a member you may well get it direct, otherwise through your
>Branch. If you aren't a member, this is another reason to join the RSCDS.
>Or rather two, since the magazine will be issued twice a year.
>
>William
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42326 · seonaid.gent · 26 Sep 2005 23:04:24 · Top

I've also just received my copy yesterday. It is a great publication and a lot more useful and readable than the Bulletin was (IMHO). (Having said that I used to like receiving my Bulletin too!)

When I received it, I was just back from a long weekend trip to Hamburg (lots of fun dancing, but not much sleep!!) Given my tiredness, I would normally just have taken a cursory glance at the magazine and then put it in the pile to be read later. However, it somehow drew me in, and I kept reading it well past the time that I had said I would go to sleep. Great for the RSCDS, not so good for my boss who wasn't quite so appreciate of my reason's for being unable to focus on work today ;o)! Oh well - tomorrow is another day (but I think the hangover is kicking in!!).

Best wishes,

Seonaid
Markinch, Fife


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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42339 · Martin · 27 Sep 2005 11:30:29 · Top

William & Shellagh Whyte wrote:

>I received my copy of the "SCOTTISH country dancer" this morning,
>
Me too !

Very nice presentation and content. Nice to see familair faces in the
photos.

But who sent it?

Did it come from Coates Crescent?
In which case, will I get another from my branch (London)?

And if I had joined the new international branch (which I almost did, to
give support to the idea), would I have received a third copy?
Will club secretaries also receive copies as they used to with the bulletin?

This is hardly a way of keeping costs down, it seems.

Martin,
also in France.

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42340 · Pia Walker · 27 Sep 2005 11:58:35 · Top

As membership secretary for the International Branch (Martin - you can
e-mail me any time :>)) - it is my understanding that all mailings of an
RSCDS nature will be carried out by RSCDS - i.e. you will not get these
mailingS from your branch. All other mailings of a branch nature will of
course be made by the branch itself, and I would imagine that the branch
literature depends on whether the branch is your primary branch or secondary
branch - i.e which of the branches you pay your RSCDS membership through.

Only time will tell

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: "mj.sheffield" <mj.sheffield@wanadoo.fr>
To: "William & Shellagh Whyte" <wlwhyte@attglobal.net>; "SCD news and
discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine

> William & Shellagh Whyte wrote:
>
> >I received my copy of the "SCOTTISH country dancer" this morning,
> >
> Me too !
>
> Very nice presentation and content. Nice to see familair faces in the
> photos.
>
> But who sent it?
>
> Did it come from Coates Crescent?
> In which case, will I get another from my branch (London)?
>
> And if I had joined the new international branch (which I almost did, to
> give support to the idea), would I have received a third copy?
> Will club secretaries also receive copies as they used to with the
bulletin?
>
> This is hardly a way of keeping costs down, it seems.
>
> Martin,
> also in France.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42341 · redrose_solutions · 27 Sep 2005 14:01:25 · Top

The theory is that one copy of the magazine is sent directly from the RSCDS
to each member, not via a Branch as was previously the case, to the address
held in the members' database at Coates Crescent (using a distributor - the
staff at Coates Crescent are not stuffing the magazines into envelopes).

This assumes that you are either a HQ member whose contact details were already
known at HQ, or that your Branch has provided these details to HQ. In this
context, "your Branch" means the Branch (International or otherwise) through
which you hold RSCDS membership (sometimes called the "primary" Branch).
As you can only be a member of the RSCDS once, you should also only receive
one copy of the magazine.

It's obvious that the quality of the address material in the database determines
the quality of the distribution, and that it will take a while to clean
up the inevitable errors and omissions in the data. Please be patient but
let us know if you don't receive the magazine and think you should have it,
or if you receive multiple copies when you only expected one. Note that at
the last count not all Branches had provided member data to Coates Crescent,
so the problem may not lie with HQ

I have also heard of affiliated groups who have received copies of the magaziine
addressed to them, so the answer to the question "Will club secretaries also
receive copies as they used to with the bulletin?" would appear to be "yes".

As for this hardly being the way to keep costs down, we don't know yet, so
please reserve judgement until we have some real figures.

I for one think it's great news that the RSCDS is providing well-presented,
interesting and relevant information to its members :-)

Susi

Susi Mayr
Vienna, Austria
susi@redrose.co.at

>-- Original Message --
>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:30:29 +0200
>From: "mj.sheffield" <mj.sheffield@wanadoo.fr>
>To: William & Shellagh Whyte <wlwhyte@attglobal.net>,
> SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>
>
>William & Shellagh Whyte wrote:
>
>>I received my copy of the "SCOTTISH country dancer" this morning,
>>
>Me too !
>
>Very nice presentation and content. Nice to see familair faces in the
>photos.
>
>But who sent it?
>
>Did it come from Coates Crescent?
>In which case, will I get another from my branch (London)?
>
>And if I had joined the new international branch (which I almost did, to
>
>give support to the idea), would I have received a third copy?
>Will club secretaries also receive copies as they used to with the bulletin?
>
>This is hardly a way of keeping costs down, it seems.
>
>Martin,
>also in France.
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42343 · Ian Brockbank · 27 Sep 2005 14:35:45 · Top

Hi Martin,

> This is hardly a way of keeping costs down, it seems.

I don't think cost-saving is the primary purpose of direct mailing.
There are constant complaints from people not being kept informed,
or receiving information late - because (for whatever reasons) the
information has been held up by the branch. When I served on
the Edinburgh Branch committee, we tended to have the problem that
magazines, etc just missed the distribution of our own magazine, so
we had the dilemma of doing another mailshot (expensive) or holding
it until the next time we were mailing the members.

I think it's a great step forward that this is coming direct, and
I'd also like to add my compliments to the others - an interesting
read and something I'd be proud to give out to non-dancers to pique
their interest.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42344 · William & Shellagh Whyte · 27 Sep 2005 17:38:41 · Top

To complement Ian's points, RSCDS members should not automatically assume
that direct mailing is 'expensive'.

Mass distribution 'direct' mailing, via distributors who specialise in these
matters, can (I emphasise can) be a lot cheaper than you think.
Nowadays the costs for bulk shipment to say North America, the Antipodes,
etc then breaking apart followed by local delivery can be surprisingly low.
There has to be significant volumes of course, and probably long term
contracts. A distributor will offer competitive rates for a distribution the
size of the RSCDS membership (somewhere between 15 - 18,000 depending upon
how reliable the members' database is). But as they say about most things in
life, you get what you negotiate, not what you deserve. So what it actually
costs the Society depends on how well we selected and negotiated with the
service-provider.

But whatever it costs, Helen needs to talk seriously to her Branch Secretary
if she hasn't even got Book 45 yet ! Which of course was distributed the
'old' way, proving Ian's point.

William

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Brockbank" <ian@scottishdance.net>
To: "'SCD news and discussion'" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: New RSCDS members' magazine

Hi Martin,

> This is hardly a way of keeping costs down, it seems.

I don't think cost-saving is the primary purpose of direct mailing.
There are constant complaints from people not being kept informed,
or receiving information late - because (for whatever reasons) the
information has been held up by the branch. When I served on
the Edinburgh Branch committee, we tended to have the problem that
magazines, etc just missed the distribution of our own magazine, so
we had the dilemma of doing another mailshot (expensive) or holding
it until the next time we were mailing the members.

I think it's a great step forward that this is coming direct, and
I'd also like to add my compliments to the others - an interesting
read and something I'd be proud to give out to non-dancers to pique
their interest.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42345 · Jan E Rudge · 27 Sep 2005 18:00:28 · Top

William wrote:
> Helen needs to talk seriously to her Branch Secretary
> if she hasn't even got Book 45 yet ! Which of course
> was distributed the 'old' way, proving Ian's point.

London Branch members have only recently received their Book 45,
with the latest edition of The Reel. As Ian said, it had arrived too late
to go out with the previous edition so waited a few months for the next.
Direct mailing will definitely be a worthwhile improvement.

Regards,

Jan

Beaconsfield, UK

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42354 · Martin · 28 Sep 2005 17:03:44 · Top

Hi, Pia.
you wrote:

>... depends on which of the branches you pay your RSCDS membership through.
>
>
Do you mean I can join the International for free? !!!

Martin

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Message 42355 · Pia Walker · 28 Sep 2005 17:37:18 · Top

Dear Martin

No unfortunately money is, as ever, involved - but you can join as a Branch
only member - meaning that you already are a member of a Primary branch and
you just want to support the International Branch and receive information
from time to time.

If you are a HQ member you can transfer your membership.

And if you do not belong to anything, but feel in desparate need to join the
RSCDS (which everyone should do), you have the choice of joining a branch
near you, the International Branch or HQ as stated on page 4-5 of the new
exciting magazine Scottish Country Dancer.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: "mj.sheffield" <mj.sheffield@wanadoo.fr>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine

> Hi, Pia.
> you wrote:
>
> >... depends on which of the branches you pay your RSCDS membership
through.
> >
> >
> Do you mean I can join the International for free? !!!
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42356 · Ron Mackey · 28 Sep 2005 23:59:28 · Top

In regard the pictures in the middle pages, Can anyone enlighten me on
how the Seattle group managed to get all 16 feet in the air at the same
time? I think I recognize the dance but can't bring the name to mind.
I'm pretty sure that Malcolm and ptns. are dancing The
Shepherd's Crook. I have a feeling (though I can't find it again) that it is
mentioned in the body of the mag. somewhere. Does anyone include it
in dance programmes any more. It &/or the Foursome were regularly
done in London programmes but I suppose Anno Domini took it's toll.
To take the query further, does anyone still include the basic
Fling steps in the C.D classes any more?

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Message 42361 · Don Andrews · 29 Sep 2005 09:28:29 · Top

It is Malcolm dancing the Shepherd's Crook, at the White Rose Festival,
Leeds (England!) on 16th July 2005. It will also be on the programme for
the White Rose Festival on the 8th July 2006, as will the
foursome -Strathspey, Reel, and half Tulloch.
If anybody wants to get some practice in, The Crook is on the Leeds Scottish
Country Dance Club programme on the 8th October, Colin Dewar, St Chad's
Parish Centre, Leeds 16!
Happy Dancing
Don Andrews
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Mackey" <Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine

> In regard the pictures in the middle pages, Can anyone enlighten me on
> how the Seattle group managed to get all 16 feet in the air at the same
> time? I think I recognize the dance but can't bring the name to mind.
> I'm pretty sure that Malcolm and ptns. are dancing The
> Shepherd's Crook. I have a feeling (though I can't find it again) that it
> is
> mentioned in the body of the mag. somewhere. Does anyone include it
> in dance programmes any more. It &/or the Foursome were regularly
> done in London programmes but I suppose Anno Domini took it's toll.
> To take the query further, does anyone still include the basic
> Fling steps in the C.D classes any more?
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>

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Highland steps in SCD (was New RSCDS members' magazine)

Message 42368 · seonaid.gent · 29 Sep 2005 21:49:23 · Top

Hi Ron,

The Foursome is regularly on programmes in Newcastle (upon Tyne). It's one of our highlights of going to Newcastle Festival. Dunedin and New Scotland regularly used the Shepherd's Crook in dems, although they're not usually on our social programmes. Schiehallion quite often appears both at dems and on programmes on the Uni circuit, so most people will know rocking step by the end of the year!

New Scotland don't generally teach basic Fling steps in SCD class, but we usually do them at Freshers weekend Highland workshop. The also run separate Highland classes - in fact I've just finished teaching the first beginner's class of the year.

Bye for now,

Seonaid
Markinch, Scotland

Ron Mackey <Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com> wrote:
Does anyone include it [Shepherd's Crook]
in dance programmes any more. It &/or the Foursome were regularly
done in London programmes but I suppose Anno Domini took it's toll.
To take the query further, does anyone still include the basic
Fling steps in the C.D classes any more?

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Highland steps in SCD (was New RSCDS members' magazine)

Message 42369 · L. Friedman-Shedlov · 29 Sep 2005 22:33:18 · Top

We don't always teach them every year, but we usually cover a few of them
at some point. We have Glasgow Highlanders in our repertoire right now,
so we've been teaching a number of setting steps that can be done in that
dance (in addition to the one usually known as Glasgow Highlanders setting
step). Sometimes we hold a separate "mini-workshop" to teach these steps.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
RSCDS Twin Cities Branch
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

********************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but
ldfs@bigfoot.com warm-blooded"
********************************

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42359 · Remco Viëtor · 29 Sep 2005 09:11:06 · Top

On Wednesday 28 September 2005 17:37, Pia Walker wrote:
>
> And if you do not belong to anything, but feel in desparate need to join
> the RSCDS (which everyone should do), you have the choice of joining a
> branch near you, the International Branch or HQ as stated on page 4-5 of
> the new exciting magazine Scottish Country Dancer.
>

And, not being a member, where would I read that information ?? :^)

Remco

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42360 · Pia Walker · 29 Sep 2005 09:24:08 · Top

I will send you some information immediately and do remember to pass it on

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Remco Vietor" <remco.vietor@wanadoo.fr>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine

> On Wednesday 28 September 2005 17:37, Pia Walker wrote:
> >
> > And if you do not belong to anything, but feel in desparate need to join
> > the RSCDS (which everyone should do), you have the choice of joining a
> > branch near you, the International Branch or HQ as stated on page 4-5 of
> > the new exciting magazine Scottish Country Dancer.
> >
>
> And, not being a member, where would I read that information ?? :^)
>
> Remco
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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Message 42362 · Pia Walker · 29 Sep 2005 09:31:30 · Top

It is a good question though - how do we find out about SCD, RSCDS etc?

How do we hear of SCD the first time around - and how many dancers hear
about RSCDS in their dance class?

I heard about SCD from a school friend who read about it in her church
magazine - why she imparted the knowledge to me, I don't know - I turned up
because I thought it was Highland Dancing - stayed because the teacher
imparted such enthusiasm. (and because I felt I could do it).

I heard about RSCDS, because I wanted to go to summer school - again said
teacher enthused so much about it.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Remco Vietor" <remco.vietor@wanadoo.fr>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine

> On Wednesday 28 September 2005 17:37, Pia Walker wrote:
> >
> > And if you do not belong to anything, but feel in desparate need to join
> > the RSCDS (which everyone should do), you have the choice of joining a
> > branch near you, the International Branch or HQ as stated on page 4-5 of
> > the new exciting magazine Scottish Country Dancer.
> >
>
> And, not being a member, where would I read that information ?? :^)
>
> Remco
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42363 · Russell Ham · 29 Sep 2005 10:20:24 · Top

I was a bit surprised, and no little pleased, to discover two copies
in our Branch P.O. Box Wednesday evening: one addressed to the Branch
Secretary, and one to me, my name being associated with the box as
Branch Treasurer.

Looks to be nicely done; an auspicious beginning.

Russell Ham
Los Angeles

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42367 · Steve Wyrick · 29 Sep 2005 19:49:27 · Top

I received my copy a couple days ago (a pleasant surprise; I'm used to
material from the RSCDS showing up long after people in Scotland have
their copies) and have been enjoying reading the articles, particularly
the interview with Muriel Johnstone. My compliments to anyone on this
list associated with its publication or distribution; nice job! -Steve

Russell Ham said:
> I was a bit surprised, and no little pleased, to discover two copies
> in our Branch P.O. Box Wednesday evening: one addressed to the Branch
> Secretary, and one to me, my name being associated with the box as
> Branch Treasurer.
>
> Looks to be nicely done; an auspicious beginning.

--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42370 · Rebecca Sager · 30 Sep 2005 00:16:36 · Top

Yes! I got mine today.
What a relief this is. The old system was a nightmare for branches like ours with many far-flung members. We hand-delivered as many as possible to members who attend classes or area events, but with Media Mail at $1.41 we waited on the rest until we had both the Dance Book and the Bulletin to mail together. They used to come out fairly close together, but in recent years the Dance Books have come out earlier and the Bulletins later or sometimes much later, so some people didn't get their Dance Books for months. Mostly the people who weren't all that anxious to get them anyway, at least that's what we told ourselves.
Becky
Becky Sager,
Marietta GA USA (recently retired Atlanta Branch Distribution person)

-- "Steve Wyrick" <sjwyrick@astound.net> wrote:
I received my copy a couple days ago (a pleasant surprise; I'm used to
material from the RSCDS showing up long after people in Scotland have
their copies) and have been enjoying reading the articles, particularly
the interview with Muriel Johnstone. My compliments to anyone on this
list associated with its publication or distribution; nice job! -Steve

Russell Ham said:
> I was a bit surprised, and no little pleased, to discover two copies
> in our Branch P.O. Box Wednesday evening: one addressed to the Branch
> Secretary, and one to me, my name being associated with the box as
> Branch Treasurer.
>
> Looks to be nicely done; an auspicious beginning.

--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42371 · Fran Smith · 30 Sep 2005 21:25:10 · Top

 I got mine a few days ago - TWO copies
Fran Smith [S Wales]

> From:: "Becky Sager" <bsager3@juno.com>
> To: strathspey@strathspey.org
> Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine
> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:16:36 GMT

> Yes! I got mine today.
> What a relief this is. The old system was a nightmare for branches like
> ours with many far-flung members. We hand-delivered as many as possible to
> members who attend classes or area events, but with Media Mail at $1.41 we
> waited on the rest until we had both the Dance Book and the Bulletin to
> mail together. They used to come out fairly close together, but in recent
> years the Dance Books have come out earlier and the Bulletins later or
> sometimes much later, so some people didn't get their Dance Books for
> months. Mostly the people who weren't all that anxious to get them anyway,
> at least that's what we told ourselves.
> Becky
> Becky Sager,
> Marietta GA USA (recently retired Atlanta Branch Distribution person)
>
> -- "Steve Wyrick" <sjwyrick@astound.net> wrote:
> I received my copy a couple days ago (a pleasant surprise; I'm used to
> material from the RSCDS showing up long after people in Scotland have
> their copies) and have been enjoying reading the articles, particularly
> the interview with Muriel Johnstone. My compliments to anyone on this
> list associated with its publication or distribution; nice job! -Steve
>
> Russell Ham said:
> > I was a bit surprised, and no little pleased, to discover two copies
> > in our Branch P.O. Box Wednesday evening: one addressed to the Branch
> > Secretary, and one to me, my name being associated with the box as
> > Branch Treasurer.
> >
> > Looks to be nicely done; an auspicious beginning.
>
>
> --
> Steve Wyrick - Concord, California
>
> _______________________________________________
> <a
> href=http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey>http://strath
> spey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey</a>____________________________
> ___________________
> <a
> href=http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey>http://strath
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New RSCDS members' magazine

Message 42364 · redrose_solutions · 29 Sep 2005 11:34:28 · Top

You could always try the RSCDS website :-)
www.rscds.org

Susi

>-- Original Message --
>From: Remco Vietor <remco.vietor@wanadoo.fr>
>To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:11:06 +0200
>Subject: Re: New RSCDS members' magazine
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>
>
>On Wednesday 28 September 2005 17:37, Pia Walker wrote:
>>
>> And if you do not belong to anything, but feel in desparate need to join
>> the RSCDS (which everyone should do), you have the choice of joining a
>> branch near you, the International Branch or HQ as stated on page 4-5
of
>> the new exciting magazine Scottish Country Dancer.
>>
>
>And, not being a member, where would I read that information ?? :^)
>
>Remco
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42327 · Ron Mackey · 26 Sep 2005 23:43:00 · Top

On 25 Sep 2005 at 22:21, Richard Goss wrote:


> Another factor is one of age, I find that at 65 I would prefer strathspey, and "ladies" steps a little faster than slower.

Ah, Yes!! :))

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42298 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 16:20:27 · Top

"I do consider this a bad decision, since there are a lot of great 9/8 tunes out there that we can no longer use ..."

I agree that the results are negative, I only object to the "blame Miss M". I don´t think this was a decision, but an omission, so blame is not appropriate since your were suggesting that I would blame here. This would be like the guy in California who risked his life saving a guy from a burning car, which blew up on the process causing considerable damage to the rescuer. The rescued person, then sued the rescuer for damage to his back in the process of saving his life.

OT. I notice that the Brits are following after the U.S. in law suits based on stupidity. Two summers ago, I took some summer school people on a tour to Loch Leven. the castle was great but one can no longer see the view from it as the battlements are now off limits for reasons of safety (fear of law suits).


This is tongue in cheek, but I once read an essay in which the thesis was that accidents are God´s way of getting rid of stupid people, allow them to have their accidents and the race will be improved. I gave it to my students to use as a model of a well structured essay and told them to come with their own ideas. One student suggested we surround the school with razor wire, but take down the wall separating it from the motorway. That way, only the most dedicated and physicly fit students would come to class - less problems with discipline, higher grade point average, etc. Because some of the students were really getting into the topic, I had to explain eugenics and Hitler.





unless someone cleverly converts them to 6/8, and I assume it's the
same
with the dances that went with them. If ECD and Scottish step dance
could
retain or recreate the 9/8 dances I don't see why the RSCDS couldn't.
-Steve

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42272 · Patricia Ruggiero · 23 Sep 2005 03:22:03 · Top

Sylvia wrote:

> Here's a new thread for the historians. Does anyone know why dances
> originally done in 9/8 rhythm were massaged into 6/8. Why
> 9/8 died out in SCD while
> it stayed alive in ECD. And when did this all happen.

I *think* it has to do with the standardised footwork now used by SCD. I
don't think it's possible to do skip-change, at least as we know it, to 3
beats to the bar. I had a clearer idea of all this a few years ago after
reading some of Emmerson's books.

I'm going upstairs now to pack for Ramblewood. See you all on Monday. In
between, I might try a few skip-changes in 9/8; will let you know how it
goes. Will look forward to reading more informed answers on this.

Pat

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42278 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 07:51:32 · Top

The RSCDS is a revival movement, started long after many of its current forms had already died. Except for about books 1-3, most of our "traditional" dances were already dead and recreated from books, not living memory. One problem with revival movements, is that those things which are not revived, are more likely to be cast in the shadow of what is saved, the 9/8 jig being one. The popularity of "Strip the Willow" in Scotland and the Borders is that it has a living tradition, that predated the RSCDS, and continues among the "folk" independent of the RSCDS.

Because the Miss M philosophy was towards the more gentile, she chose to avoid those things that were less so. At the same time she could not make "Strip the Willow" disappear, so she published it with the option of 6/8. Since our music is only part of the larger tradition, one will find that it is danced to 6/8, 2/4, 4/4, and 9/8, all mixed in the same dance.

In the data base, I gave the RSCDS in the early 80´s, there were literally hundreds of 6/8 dances, many from the same sources as most of our other dances.

I think, that one of Miss M´s objections, and mine, is that it is often the band that plays the music too fast, making it difficult to our phrasing style. The non sanctioned versions have the following practices that would be anathema at an RSCDS function.
1. When the 1s are late in getting to the bottom, the new 1s start anyway, sometimes on time.
2. Musicians play until they spot the last couple finishing to make up for poor timing on the part of the dancers.
3. Excessively long sets, nullifying the RSCDS published phrasing.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42284 · George Meikle · 23 Sep 2005 09:59:54 · Top

Richard Goss wrote:-

> I think, that one of Miss M´s objections, and mine,
> is that it is often the band that plays the music too
> fast, making it difficult to our phrasing style.

I just knew that the blame for the change from 9/8 to 6/8 would rest with
the musicians!!! Why are they always the scapegoat and used as the ones to
blame!!! Could it not just possibly be that the dancers phrasing style is
wrong!!!

Only kidding, so don't take the strunts!

George Meikle
Lothian Scottish Dance Band

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Message 42289 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 14:32:54 · Top

I know you are just kidding. But on my part, I should have said "some musicians". Of course a part of the problem is that the musicians are paid for by the dancers, and those around at the time the society was founded liked dances at a feverish pace. Personally I hate the 6/8 version of strip the willow as it moves too fast (OK, a 2 bar one armed turn is fast, but a series of them is frantic). My favorite memory of doing this dance is a folk festival where the band was the High Level Ranters (Northumbria, I seem to remember). They alternated tunes for each couple, starting with "Drops of Brandy" [9/8] at a gentle pace, and a traditional Irish tune, published by Shand as the "Bluebell Polka" danced step hop to strathspey time.

There must be a history behind this but sometime after the first few books and much later the RSCDS gave up a good opportunity to have more control of the music and musicians. For the early books, the RSCDS published, or authorized, 78´s, and now, of course we have our own series matched to our books.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42293 · Anselm Lingnau · 23 Sep 2005 14:54:07 · Top

Richard Goss wrote:

> Personally I hate the 6/8 version of strip
> the willow as it moves too fast (OK, a 2 bar one armed turn is fast, but a
> series of them is frantic).

We play for ceilidhs every so often here in Germany (various people want to
have something special for their weddings and such) and »Strip the Willow« is
always near the top of the list of dances that are done. It does not matter
in the least that people (especially Germans doing it for the first time)
will make a complete and utter mess of it -- usually you have five minutes of
total mayhem on the floor and then they want to do it again immediately.

Just for the record, we always play the 9/8 music because we enjoy it so much
(if the dancers can have fun then we're surely entitled to a bit, too) -- but
at ceilidhs in Scotland I have only heard 6/8 jigs for StW.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
Love is like Pi -- natural, irrational and *very* important. -- Lisa Hoffmann
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42349 · Robert Lambie · 28 Sep 2005 01:13:22 · Top

On 23 sep R. Goss wrote that RSCDS is a revival movement. I was under the
impression that JCM got a lot of her information from Dancie Reid, who was
active in this area (Glenfarg) within living memory (just!). Is that not
the case?

>From: Richard Goss <goss9@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: Re: 9/8 vs 6/8
>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
>
>The RSCDS is a revival movement, started long after many of its current
>forms had already died. Except for about books 1-3, most of our
>"traditional" dances were already dead and recreated from books, not living
>memory. One problem with revival movements, is that those things which are
>not revived, are more likely to be cast in the shadow of what is saved, the
>9/8 jig being one. The popularity of "Strip the Willow" in Scotland and the
>Borders is that it has a living tradition, that predated the RSCDS, and
>continues among the "folk" independent of the RSCDS.
>
>Because the Miss M philosophy was towards the more gentile, she chose to
>avoid those things that were less so. At the same time she could not make
>"Strip the Willow" disappear, so she published it with the option of 6/8.
>Since our music is only part of the larger tradition, one will find that it
>is danced to 6/8, 2/4, 4/4, and 9/8, all mixed in the same dance.
>
>In the data base, I gave the RSCDS in the early 80´s, there were literally
>hundreds of 6/8 dances, many from the same sources as most of our other
>dances.
>
>I think, that one of Miss M´s objections, and mine, is that it is often the
>band that plays the music too fast, making it difficult to our phrasing
>style. The non sanctioned versions have the following practices that would
>be anathema at an RSCDS function.
>1. When the 1s are late in getting to the bottom, the new 1s start anyway,
>sometimes on time.
>2. Musicians play until they spot the last couple finishing to make up for
>poor timing on the part of the dancers.
>3. Excessively long sets, nullifying the RSCDS published phrasing.
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42350 · Richard Goss · 28 Sep 2005 08:36:51 · Top

Miss M, "lot of her information from Dancie Reid"

I also heard that rumor. Unfortunately there seems to be no documentation as to what information and where it went in our dancing. What is documented to some extent is that all of the dances in the first three books, were already in print and circulating outside the society. The difference being that our first books, were also the bulletin and hand book, so we were able to put our stamp on what followed. Where it specificly came from before book one is anyone´s guess. As to the later dances they were simply reconstructed from dance books found in libraries and private collections.

The problem with RSCDS footnotes, as it used to say if one read the fine print, is that they are not footnotes, only the earliest known reference to a dance of that name, but not specificly the dance that we published.

As to Miss M´s pre Book I expertise, note that in the famous precurser, the Beltain Society (reference to McFadzean´s "house" bio of Miss M, all of the dances performed were already revived by the EFDSS and are still part of their rep.

It was not until several books into our series that we invented something called "Scottish Country Dancing", our original definition was "country dances as danced in Scotland". Miss M, and the society, created a border between the country dancing of Scotland and England, that had not existed previously. Even most of the Scottish music that we now use, was first published in London (majority of Gow, Bremner, etc.). In the various sources, most of the dancing masters came from the south or the continent. When it comes to a lot of the Highland material, its source can be traced back to Belgium.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42357 · Robert Lambie · 29 Sep 2005 00:48:16 · Top

I also understood that the army had quite a cu;lture of dance going on,
which resulted in Highland dance being continued as well as country dancing.
I guess that the style of the "County set" owes quite a bit to that, though
to me it looks very 1920 period. These, plus the dancing masters such as
Dancie Reid and the guy who taught the Queen mother, were still teaching
country dancing in Scotland when JCM was trying to gather together what was
to be gathered. I doubt if anyone thought of it as specifically Scottish,
more just the local accent or way of doing things. But there was still quite
a bit of activity to work with, so reconstruction was hardly necessary. Kiss
of life, perhaps!

>From: Richard Goss <goss9@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>To: SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Subject: Re: 9/8 vs 6/8
>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Miss M, "lot of her information from Dancie Reid"
>
>I also heard that rumor. Unfortunately there seems to be no documentation
>as to what information and where it went in our dancing. What is documented
>to some extent is that all of the dances in the first three books, were
>already in print and circulating outside the society. The difference being
>that our first books, were also the bulletin and hand book, so we were able
>to put our stamp on what followed. Where it specificly came from before
>book one is anyone´s guess. As to the later dances they were simply
>reconstructed from dance books found in libraries and private collections.
>
>The problem with RSCDS footnotes, as it used to say if one read the fine
>print, is that they are not footnotes, only the earliest known reference to
>a dance of that name, but not specificly the dance that we published.
>
>As to Miss M´s pre Book I expertise, note that in the famous precurser, the
>Beltain Society (reference to McFadzean´s "house" bio of Miss M, all of the
>dances performed were already revived by the EFDSS and are still part of
>their rep.
>
>It was not until several books into our series that we invented something
>called "Scottish Country Dancing", our original definition was "country
>dances as danced in Scotland". Miss M, and the society, created a border
>between the country dancing of Scotland and England, that had not existed
>previously. Even most of the Scottish music that we now use, was first
>published in London (majority of Gow, Bremner, etc.). In the various
>sources, most of the dancing masters came from the south or the continent.
>When it comes to a lot of the Highland material, its source can be traced
>back to Belgium.
>_______________________________________________
>http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42358 · Richard Goss · 29 Sep 2005 08:31:22 · Top

If you notice photos of Elizabeth II, both as princess and queen dancing SCD, she is dancing in the "county" and not the RSCDS style (note overcrossing in what tends to be a 2 beat pdb).
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42285 · Jim Healy · 23 Sep 2005 10:34:45 · Top

Greetings!

Sylvia writes:

>We dance Strip the Willow in 9/8 with a running step.
Not in Scotland they don't except very infrequently in an RSCDS class as an
exercise and not one that will find a lot of favour. At a ceilidh you will
almost certainly dance it in 6/8 time and the music may change to reel time
half way through.

As to why that should be, I look forward to the views of others.

Jim Healy
Monaco

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42290 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 14:36:01 · Top

My Strip the Willow experiences would not agree, I would say about 50/50 at ceilidhs. Of course one´s selection a a sample is a factor. I would say the running step is more common in community dances, whereas the skip change fits more with other types of ceilidhs. Remember there is no skip change of step for traveling in the "county" style. Imagine doing Willow with a traveling pdb.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42291 · SMiskoe · 23 Sep 2005 14:47:53 · Top


In a message dated 9/23/2005 8:33:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
goss9@sbcglobal.net writes:

RSCDS gave up a good opportunity to have more control of the music and
musicians

>From my musician's point of view I think the RSCDS has the most control over
music and musicians of the 3 genres I play (contra/square, English Country,
SCD). They insist on playing a particular tune for each dance, every dance
program has the same number of jigs, reels and strathspeys, and the dancers are
most critical of the product than the other genres.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42292 · SMiskoe · 23 Sep 2005 14:54:23 · Top

This is only my personal experience/opinion as to why STW gets played in 6/8
so often. I know hundreds of jigs and easily play a bunch off the top of my
head. I don't know many 9/8 tunes, in part because I'm seldom asked to play
them. The SCD dancers don't like doing a running step which is easier to do
to 9/8 than a skip change. So between the dancers wanting something they
can do skip change to and my smaller repertoire of 9/8 it's easiest just to
play another 6/8 tune. We can play them as fast or slow as the dancers wish.
Don't blame us if the music is too fast if you haven't requested a slower
tempo.
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42306 · Ron Mackey · 24 Sep 2005 01:19:25 · Top

> This is only my personal experience/opinion as to why STW gets played in 6/8
> so often. .............. The SCD dancers don't like doing a running step
which is easier to do to 9/8 than a skip change.

Whyever not??

So between the dancers wanting something they
> can do skip change to etc,...
Am I getting this right that STW is done with skip change?? ^i^
With astonishment
Regards, Ron

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42307 · Ron Mackey · 24 Sep 2005 01:19:25 · Top

> Actually, if you watch Irish step dancers doing a slip jig, you'll
> see the obvious solution. They just repeat the first half of the
> step, so you get R-L-R-L-R-pause, and then the mirror image. It
> probably doesn't take any teaching. But it does cause a lot more
> side-to-side motion.

Makes the PdeB heavy going though! :~)
Regards, Ron

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42297 · Richard Goss · 23 Sep 2005 16:09:14 · Top

Taken out of context, you will notice that I said between the last 78 around 1950 and the first LP, the RSCDS had no control except which bands they hired for their dances, with the beginning of the RSCDS LP´s some of that control has returned. And you are correct, even before the return to publishing records, the RSCDS had more control than the EFDSS and others.
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42366 · Bryan McAlister · 29 Sep 2005 13:25:08 · Top

We do it because it raises the energy level and is a great climax to
finish the first or second half of a dance. (If there is a last waltz it
goes in before STW)

In message <BAY108-F275C4AA4A6544AF214344D8960@phx.gbl>, Jim Healy
<jimhealy@hotmail.com> writes
> At a ceilidh you will almost certainly dance it in 6/8 time and the
>music may change to reel time half way through.
>
>As to why that should be, I look forward to the views of others.

--
Bryan McAlister
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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42286 · Ian Brockbank · 23 Sep 2005 13:02:03 · Top

Hi Sylvia,

> Woo'd and Married an A' is from the Wilson collection, 1816 and was issued

> in book 16 in 1956. Every time I have played it I felt that the tune was

> really supposed to be 9/8. I just 'invested' in some nice music
> collections and discovered Woo'd and Married and A' is printed as from the

> Brem Collection and is in 9/8. The 2 melody lines are virtually the same.
> We dance Strip the Willow in 9/8 with a running step. Why not these
other
> old dances?

Interesting you should mention "Woo'd and Married an A'". We did it in
the Edinburgh Branch show in the Festival Fringe (dancing in normal 6/8)
and then came off the floor leaving the band still playing - at which
point they switched to 9/8. Suddenly the tune made a whole lot more
sense. It sounds so leaden in 6/8, because it's basically 9 beats
stretched to 12 (which the band tried valiantly to fill...).

I have to say, though, that I have only ever danced a 9/8 Strip the
Willow once. Even in the ceilidh scene where the dancers don't care
about subtleties like skip-change it always seems to be in 6/8.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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9/8 vs 6/8

Message 42332 · Patricia Ruggiero · 27 Sep 2005 04:46:41 · Top

Ian wrote:
>
> Interesting you should mention "Woo'd and Married an A'". We
> did it in the Edinburgh Branch show in the Festival Fringe
> (dancing in normal 6/8) and then came off the floor leaving
> the band still playing - at which point they switched to 9/8.
> Suddenly the tune made a whole lot more sense. It sounds so
> leaden in 6/8, because it's basically 9 beats stretched to 12
> (which the band tried valiantly to fill...).

I find that to be true, too, of Dusty Miller.

Pat

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