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Message 42048 · John Clark · 1 Sep 2005 00:47:58 · Top

A long time ago I asked Headquarters if RSCDS Committee meetings could be held by teleconference to enable non-UK residents to join RSCDS Committees. The requirement at that time was (and probably still is) that you should be able to attend all Committee meetings in person. This is an expensive exercise if you live in Australia and serves to disenfranchise people living at any distance from Scotland. However, I was told by Headquarters that teleconferences would not be feasible as it would involve interpreting! They didn't explain why, as I assume that RSCDS Committee meetings are held in English! However, the message from Headquarters was clearly "we don't want you people from overseas on our Committees - just send us your subscriptions and keep quiet".

John Clark
Canberra, Australia
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Message 42092 · Fiona Grant · 1 Sep 2005 21:36:45 · Top

John in Australia wrote suggesting RSCDS committee meetings by
tele-conference to enable far-flung SCDers to participate.

Interesting idea but...
These committee meetings usually go on from 10.30 am to 4.00 pm on the
Saturdays they meet.
Would you stay up all night for such a meeting?
And
Have you any idea what UK phone companies charge for teleconferencing?
Likely consequence of adopting this policy = annual membership sub. doubles.

Fiona
who was told what the last quarter phone bill for teleconferencing was at
the Finance Committee mtg a fortnight ago.
now back in Bristol recovering from the shock.

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Message 42096 · Alexandre Rafalovitch · 1 Sep 2005 21:47:13 · Top

The issue of cost is perhaps no longer as big as suggested.
If committee's meeting place had a broadband connection, free
video-conferencing software is available. The cost of broadband is
quickly dropping, though at different speed in different countries.
I realise that the technical aspects of the problem are still
formidable, but just wanted to point out that the ground has shifted
somewhat in the last couple of years.

And, as to the timezone, that would be a self correcting issue. If
someone has enough of an itch to scratch, they will stay up/get up
early. After all, all sorts of sacrifices are done in the name of
summer/winter school already.

Regards,
Alex.

On 9/1/05, Fiona Grant <fiona@freespiritfilms.co.uk> wrote:
> John in Australia wrote suggesting RSCDS committee meetings by
> tele-conference to enable far-flung SCDers to participate.
>
> Interesting idea but...
> These committee meetings usually go on from 10.30 am to 4.00 pm on the
> Saturdays they meet.
> Would you stay up all night for such a meeting?
> And
> Have you any idea what UK phone companies charge for teleconferencing?
> Likely consequence of adopting this policy = annual membership sub. doubles.
>
> Fiona
> who was told what the last quarter phone bill for teleconferencing was at
> the Finance Committee mtg a fortnight ago.
> now back in Bristol recovering from the shock.
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Teleconference; is the society parochial?

Message 42103 · Andrea Re · 2 Sep 2005 00:07:15 · Top

Alexandre Rafalovitch ha scritto:

>The issue of cost is perhaps no longer as big as suggested.
>If committee's meeting place had a broadband connection, free
>video-conferencing software is available. The cost of broadband is
>quickly dropping, though at different speed in different countries.
>I realise that the technical aspects of the problem are still
>formidable, but just wanted to point out that the ground has shifted
>somewhat in the last couple of years.
>
>
Hi,

I read the first message about this topic this afternoon and had the
same thoughts as Alex. I have been using quite a lot MSN messenger and
Skype (which doesn't have a video link as yet, but is more reliable than
MSN for talking) and they allow you to talk to anybody else in the world
for FREE (!!!!!), assuming they have broadband. At HQ they have internet
access, so I don't see why someone couldn't join in remotely from the
antipodes (or from France, or Germany, or England, or wherever). The
RSCDS being an, allegedly, worldwide organization would probably benefin
from some input from far away. People from overseas must see HQ, and
probably the society as a whole, as a rather parochial organization....
I wonder what they think about it.....

Andrea (fae Dundee)
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Teleconference; is the society parochial?

Message 42105 · John Clark · 2 Sep 2005 01:26:59 · Top

Good morning from Australia
Re possible attendance at Committee meetings by members from remote locations. At present, it seems that Committee members are present in person. They could still attend in person - leaving a few overseas members to contribute to a meeting on a teleconference basis. Fiona points out that teleconference charges by UK phone companies are very high. However, from Australia it costs me only A$1.8cents/minute - about £0.007 at present exchange rates -to phone the UK using the Ozcall card - which allows conference calls. (The same rate applies to most European countries, USA and Japan). I also use Skype which (as Andrea points out) is free. Skype conference calls are limited to four participants but if there were more people wanted to attend on a conference call basis you would just need more than one line at head office - can't imagine this would be a problem in Edinburgh on a Saturday.
As for timing, 10-30 a.m. in the UK is currently 19-30 here which would not be a problem, though I was amazed to read Fiona's comment that meetings go on from 10.30 am to 4.00 pm on the Saturdays they meet. (Sounds as if the old bureaucratic principle that discussion at meetings goes on to fill the time available is applied at Head Office) Of course, people on the conference call would miss out on lunch, morning coffee and the Devonshire cream tea in the afternoon but, personally, I would welcome this restriction on my food intake.
John Clark
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea Re
To: SCD news and discussion
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:07 AM
Subject: Teleconference; is the society parochial?

Alexandre Rafalovitch ha scritto:

The issue of cost is perhaps no longer as big as suggested. If committee's meeting place had a broadband connection, free video-conferencing software is available. The cost of broadband is quickly dropping, though at different speed in different countries. I realise that the technical aspects of the problem are still formidable, but just wanted to point out that the ground has shifted somewhat in the last couple of years.

Hi,

I read the first message about this topic this afternoon and had the same thoughts as Alex. I have been using quite a lot MSN messenger and Skype (which doesn't have a video link as yet, but is more reliable than MSN for talking) and they allow you to talk to anybody else in the world for FREE (!!!!!), assuming they have broadband. At HQ they have internet access, so I don't see why someone couldn't join in remotely from the antipodes (or from France, or Germany, or England, or wherever). The RSCDS being an, allegedly, worldwide organization would probably benefin from some input from far away. People from overseas must see HQ, and probably the society as a whole, as a rather parochial organization....
I wonder what they think about it.....

Andrea (fae Dundee)

On 9/1/05, Fiona Grant <fiona@freespiritfilms.co.uk> wrote:
John in Australia wrote suggesting RSCDS committee meetings by tele-conference to enable far-flung SCDers to participate. Interesting idea but...
These committee meetings usually go on from 10.30 am to 4.00 pm on the Saturdays they meet. Would you stay up all night for such a meeting? And Have you any idea what UK phone companies charge for teleconferencing? Likely consequence of adopting this policy = annual membership sub. doubles.

Fiona who was told what the last quarter phone bill for teleconferencing was at the Finance Committee mtg a fortnight ago. now back in Bristol recovering from the shock.
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Teleconference; is the society parochial?

Message 42108 · alan mair · 2 Sep 2005 10:49:27 · Top

Two things strike me whenever this subject arises. One that it appears to be
an advantage (restricted to the geographically blessed) to be on a HQ
committee. Let us hope that no-one sees it that way and I am sure most of us
can find better ways of spending our Saturdays. The other is the view that
where people come from is important.

Certainly, before the Society spread beyond Scotland the idea that the
ruling body could be composed of one member from each Branch was a sound one
but this ceased to be practical long ago. The danger is now that we try to
use video conferencing just to prove that we can! The arguments that we
would then have over whether or not to have constituencies, who did and who
didn't have the facilities at their end and whether the overseas individual
was any more successful than a UK based member at consulting fellow-members
would probably only succeed in making sure that the meetings lasted even
longer.

What I believe is much more important is that committee members go into a
meeting knowing what members everywhere feel about the Society and think
about current issues. To this end it was written into the remit of the
Management Board when it was set up that it should devise a system whereby
all Branches could have direct contact with (a member of) the Board. Some
may see video-conferencing as one way but I think the Society has evolved,
and will continue to develop only, by personal contact.

We are a world wide organisation and so we need Board members who have
travelled to events in Europe, N America, Australia, New Zealand and the
rest and who enjoy meeting with and listening to fellow members (even when
they are not telling you what you want to hear). They would do well to
"lurk" on .strathspey as well - because it is a source of a wide spread of
views including "how others see us". Information gathering is probably the
most important aspect of committee work. Done well it can help to ensure
that the meetings are far shorter - and there is more time for dancing
afterwards.

Best regards

Alan
Cupar (less than an hour from Edinburgh.....but prepared to swap!!!!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Re" <andrea.re@virgin.net>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:07 PM
Subject: Teleconference; is the society parochial?

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Teleconference; is the society parochial?

Message 42109 · redrose_solutions · 2 Sep 2005 11:32:09 · Top

Hear, hear!

On the subject of people outside the UK (or even Scotland) being discouraged
from joining RSCDS committees, we have one recently constituted working group
with members based in Scotland, continental Europe, Australia, the U.S and
Canada. 10 p.m. in the U.K. is a good time for a conference call - we had
a very productive one in July (but I have no idea of the cost for the hour
we talked).

Must go now - have to catch a flight to Edinburgh for two RSCDS meetings
this weekend ...

Susi

Suis Mayr
Vienna, Austria
susi@redrose.co.at

>-- Original Message --
>From: "Alan Mair" <alan@abercorn58.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:49:27 +0100
>Subject: Re: Teleconference; is the society parochial?
>Reply-To: Alan Mair <alan@abercorn58.freeserve.co.uk>,
> SCD news and discussion <strathspey@strathspey.org>
>
>
>Two things strike me whenever this subject arises. One that it appears to
>be
>an advantage (restricted to the geographically blessed) to be on a HQ
>committee. Let us hope that no-one sees it that way and I am sure most of
>us
>can find better ways of spending our Saturdays. The other is the view that
>where people come from is important.
>
>Certainly, before the Society spread beyond Scotland the idea that the
>ruling body could be composed of one member from each Branch was a sound
>one
>but this ceased to be practical long ago. The danger is now that we try
to
>use video conferencing just to prove that we can! The arguments that we
>would then have over whether or not to have constituencies, who did and
who
>didn't have the facilities at their end and whether the overseas individual
>was any more successful than a UK based member at consulting fellow-members
>would probably only succeed in making sure that the meetings lasted even
>longer.
>
>What I believe is much more important is that committee members go into
a
>meeting knowing what members everywhere feel about the Society and think
>about current issues. To this end it was written into the remit of the
>Management Board when it was set up that it should devise a system whereby
>all Branches could have direct contact with (a member of) the Board. Some
>may see video-conferencing as one way but I think the Society has evolved,
>and will continue to develop only, by personal contact.
>
>We are a world wide organisation and so we need Board members who have
>travelled to events in Europe, N America, Australia, New Zealand and the
>rest and who enjoy meeting with and listening to fellow members (even when
>they are not telling you what you want to hear). They would do well to
>"lurk" on .strathspey as well - because it is a source of a wide spread
>of
>views including "how others see us". Information gathering is probably the
>most important aspect of committee work. Done well it can help to ensure
>that the meetings are far shorter - and there is more time for dancing
>afterwards.
>
>Best regards
>
>Alan
>Cupar (less than an hour from Edinburgh.....but prepared to swap!!!!)

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42196 · Andrea Re · 20 Sep 2005 14:42:45 · Top

Ok, I know... this discussion is as old as time itself, but there you go....
I was talking to a girl who has just passed her prelim and she was
telling me she was told that you are supposed to complete the skip
change (bar 1 and 2) and extend the right leg in front ready to spring
on the right foot for the pdb(bar 3).
Never mind the controversy regarding HOW you start a pdb, what I would
like to know is whether you think it is possible at all to do as she says.
In my view, at the beginning of the third beat of a bar (pdb left) you
spring on the left foot and simultaneously you extend the right foot for
the jeté. On beat four you hover a little bit and retract the leg,
spring and land on the right foot at the beginning of beat 1 of the
following bar.
In Skip change on the third beat of the bar (bar 2, skip change left)
the left foot is in front and the right foot is well behind which means
that I have the end of beat 3 and beat 4 to pull the leg through, extend
it, retract it and spring ready to land on my right foot for a pdb. It
might just be possible, but I don't seem to be able to do it at speed.
What I do naturally is to start the pdb from the side (finish skip
change, don't pull leg through and spring on it as it approaches the
supporting leg).

Please answers on a postcard, and don't break your legs while trying.

Andrea (fae Dundee)

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42197 · Richard Goss · 20 Sep 2005 14:52:27 · Top

My philosophy in dancing stresses the importance of the initial movement of each step, phrase, movement etc. So teach that one should do a subtle cheat of the previous item, so as to highlight the initial part of the subsequent one.
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Message 42198 · Anselm Lingnau · 20 Sep 2005 14:57:22 · Top

Andrea Re wrote:

> Never mind the controversy regarding HOW you start a pdb, what I would
> like to know is whether you think it is possible at all to do as she says.

It's probably possible if you apply yourself but I should think it's not
really worth the trouble, since I don't think it actually looks good. Without
knowing the details I suspect this method comes from somebody who believes in
the »always finish your steps« school of thought. (These people are easily
recognized on the dance floor; they are the ones who will finish two bars of
strathspey setting -- e.g., as a corner in hello-goodbye setting -- with a
little hop and their foot in 3rd rear aerial low position.)

I haven't seen the new Manual, but it used to be that matters like these were
not specified in detail. This makes them subject to fashion and/or personal
preference. In an exam situation one would of course want to go with the
current fashion among examiners (unless one wanted to make a point),
reverting to personal preference as soon as the exam is over. In class many
people will stick to the teacher's personal preference by default.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
True love is like ghosts, which everybody talks about and few have seen.
-- François, Duc de La Rochefoucauld
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Skip change into pdb

Message 42199 · Andrea Re · 20 Sep 2005 15:15:15 · Top

Anselm Lingnau ha scritto:

>Andrea Re wrote:
>
>
>
>>Never mind the controversy regarding HOW you start a pdb, what I would
>>like to know is whether you think it is possible at all to do as she says.
>>
>>
>
>It's probably possible if you apply yourself but I should think it's not
>really worth the trouble, since I don't think it actually looks good. Without
>knowing the details I suspect this method comes from somebody who believes in
>the »always finish your steps« school of thought. (These people are easily
>recognized on the dance floor; they are the ones who will finish two bars of
>strathspey setting -- e.g., as a corner in hello-goodbye setting -- with a
>little hop and their foot in 3rd rear aerial low position.)
>
>
Hi,

I think that steps should be completed whenever possible. My question is
how you dance/teach the transition between skip change and pdb (assuming
that you do complete the skip change) and, as a related issue, how you
start a pdb.

In my case I almost always start a pdb with my right leg extended (so I
don't start with a spring on the "and" of the previous bar, but slightly
earlier with an extension), but when I come from skip change I start
from the side, since I find easier (well, at least I can do this
version) and less "stilted".
There is always the option of NOT completing the last skip change in
which case is very easy/more natural, to start with an extension. In my
neck of the wood 9.9 dancers out of 10 do it like this.

>I haven't seen the new Manual,
>
SHAME ON YOU!!!!!::::)))

Andrea (fae Dundee)
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Skip change into pdb

Message 42200 · Wouter Joubert · 20 Sep 2005 15:53:52 · Top

>...she was told that you are supposed to complete the skip change (bar
1 and 2) and extend the right leg in front ready to spring on the right
foot for the pdb(bar 3).<

That seems to be what I do when I tried it out in the office just now.
The extension of the right foot is quite natural as that is how I start
Pas de Basque anyway and as there is no hop on the last beat of bar 2
(since you are about to change into Pas de Basque) the link is quite
smooth as well as pleasurable - for me at least.

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria
South Africa
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Skip change into pdb

Message 42201 · Pia Walker · 20 Sep 2005 16:53:30 · Top

Hi Andrea

I have just danced around my room - and yes I did manage to kick the
radiator :>)

If I start with my right foot counting: And, one, two, three - And, one,
two, three - I have plenty of time on the third And, to finish finish my
skip change of step by pulling my right foot up and through to start the pdb
with an extended right foot/leg. In my opinion, the foot have to have a
foreward motion - if not you will start the pdb from behind and thereby
'going backwards'.

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Re" <andrea.re@virgin.net>
To: "SCD news and discussion" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Skip change into pdb

> Anselm Lingnau ha scritto:
>
> >Andrea Re wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Never mind the controversy regarding HOW you start a pdb, what I would
> >>like to know is whether you think it is possible at all to do as she
says.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It's probably possible if you apply yourself but I should think it's not
> >really worth the trouble, since I don't think it actually looks good.
Without
> >knowing the details I suspect this method comes from somebody who
believes in
> >the »always finish your steps« school of thought. (These people are
easily
> >recognized on the dance floor; they are the ones who will finish two bars
of
> >strathspey setting -- e.g., as a corner in hello-goodbye setting -- with
a
> >little hop and their foot in 3rd rear aerial low position.)
> >
> >
> Hi,
>
> I think that steps should be completed whenever possible. My question is
> how you dance/teach the transition between skip change and pdb (assuming
> that you do complete the skip change) and, as a related issue, how you
> start a pdb.
>
> In my case I almost always start a pdb with my right leg extended (so I
> don't start with a spring on the "and" of the previous bar, but slightly
> earlier with an extension), but when I come from skip change I start
> from the side, since I find easier (well, at least I can do this
> version) and less "stilted".
> There is always the option of NOT completing the last skip change in
> which case is very easy/more natural, to start with an extension. In my
> neck of the wood 9.9 dancers out of 10 do it like this.
>
> >I haven't seen the new Manual,
> >
> SHAME ON YOU!!!!!::::)))
>
> Andrea (fae Dundee)
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42202 · Andrea Re · 20 Sep 2005 17:09:53 · Top

Pia Walker ha scritto:

>Hi Andrea
>
>I have just danced around my room - and yes I did manage to kick the
>radiator :>)
>
>If I start with my right foot counting: And, one, two, three - And, one,
>two, three - I have plenty of time on the third And, to finish finish my
>skip change of step by pulling my right foot up and through to start the pdb
>with an extended right foot/leg. In my opinion, the foot have to have a
>foreward motion - if not you will start the pdb from behind and thereby
>'going backwards'.
>
>Pia
>
>
>
Dearest Pia,

I suggest you try with some music and at speed. If I have a "dry" run I
can do it nae bother, but no sooner does the music start than my feet
get in a knot (NOT of the dancing variety:)

Awaiting reports.

Love and kisses,

Andrea (fae Dundee)

PS (of a personal nature)

I was right.... what happened to you in Wicked Willie.... we never met,
and I was SO looking forward to it.... I even fell out with my
partner....all for nothing:(
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Skip change into pdb

Message 42203 · Pia Walker · 20 Sep 2005 17:43:56 · Top

Dear Andrea

Try and relax and do not think about it for a couple of steps :>)
Whether you continue in Skip change of step or go into pdb - there is no
difference following through to the third step- you just place your foot
differently on one (after the AND).

With regards to WW

At the end of the dance before, couple number three did not move to fourth
place and we started from the wrong position - I missed you too dearest :>)

You can fall out with your partner, as long as you NEVER fall over her.

Chiao
Pia

>
> I suggest you try with some music and at speed. If I have a "dry" run I
> can do it nae bother, but no sooner does the music start than my feet
> get in a knot (NOT of the dancing variety:)
>
> Awaiting reports.
>
> Love and kisses,
>
> Andrea (fae Dundee)
>
> PS (of a personal nature)
>
> I was right.... what happened to you in Wicked Willie.... we never met,
> and I was SO looking forward to it.... I even fell out with my
> partner....all for nothing:(
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42204 · Iain Boyd · 20 Sep 2005 22:32:03 · Top

Dear Anselm,

You wrote -

Without knowing the details I suspect this method comes from somebody who believes in the »always finish your steps« school of thought. (These people are easily recognized on the dance floor; they are the ones who will finish two bars of strathspey setting -- e.g., as a corner in hello-goodbye setting -- with a little hop and their foot in 3rd rear aerial low position.).


Firstly, I belong to the '»always finish your steps« school of thought' and, personally, nearly always manage to complete all of my steps - skip change, pas de basque, slip step, strathspey travelling and strathspey setting. I teach this as a preference (although, I also add that there is the other school of thought which believes that placing one's foot quietly into first position is the 'way to go'). To 'complete the step' was what I was taught to do back in the '50s and '60s! Personally, I believe it is lazy not to finish one's steps properly.


Secondly, it is quite possible to begin a pas de basque after a skip change step with an extension. I also belong to the school of thought that believes the pas de basque begins with an extension. Again, it was the way I was taught back in the '50s and '60s. Personally, I am not always able to do so now as I was only a few years ago.


Regards,

Iain Boyd
Wellington
New Zealand



Anselm Lingnau <anselm@strathspey.org> wrote:
Andrea Re wrote:

> Never mind the controversy regarding HOW you start a pdb, what I would
> like to know is whether you think it is possible at all to do as she says.

It's probably possible if you apply yourself but I should think it's not
really worth the trouble, since I don't think it actually looks good. Without
knowing the details I suspect this method comes from somebody who believes in
the »always finish your steps« school of thought. (These people are easily
recognized on the dance floor; they are the ones who will finish two bars of
strathspey setting -- e.g., as a corner in hello-goodbye setting -- with a
little hop and their foot in 3rd rear aerial low position.)

I haven't seen the new Manual, but it used to be that matters like these were
not specified in detail. This makes them subject to fashion and/or personal
preference. In an exam situation one would of course want to go with the
current fashion among examiners (unless one wanted to make a point),
reverting to personal preference as soon as the exam is over. In class many
people will stick to the teacher's personal preference by default.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau, Frankfurt, Germany ..................... anselm@strathspey.org
True love is like ghosts, which everybody talks about and few have seen.
-- François, Duc de La Rochefoucauld
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Skip change into pdb

Message 42205 · L. Friedman-Shedlov · 20 Sep 2005 23:18:04 · Top

Actually, it seems to me you have plenty of time to extend your foot at
the end of the skip change. This is because the skip change of step
actually begins at the *end* of the previous bar of music (on the upbeat),
whereas the pas de basque begins on the downbeat.

Let's say you were doing two skip change of step on bars 1-2 of a musical
phrase. If you were going to continue with another skip change of step
on bar 3, you'd be hopping and extending your foot towards 4th position
on the last upbeat of the 2nd bar, then, on the downbeat of the
3rd bar, you step. If you are going to do a pas de basque on bar 3, you
still have that last upbeat of bar 2 to extend your foot, but you leave
out the hop. So you are actually doing *less* in the same amount of time
than if you were doing another skip change of step.

Personally, I tend to make that extension at the end of the skip
change towards 4th intermediate (like the jete at the end of the pas de
basque) not 4th, if I am transitioning into pas de basque.

That said, I do think this point is fairly trivial in actual practice,
except perhaps in cases of high precision demonstrations or extremely
picky examiners.

Also, just as a note of interest, I started dancing in 1989, and I always
started my pas de basque with an extension to 4th intermediate (though I
honestly can't remember if I was specifically taught to do this). When I
took my full cert class in 2000, the tutor, who was also an examiner,
specifically told us NOT to use the preliminary extension.

As others have already noted, fashions change. When I find my feathers
getting ruffled because I have just been told that the way I have been
previously taught to do something is no longer "correct" or the teacher in
charge simply has a different preference, I remind myself that if I am
really a good dancer, I should be able to do it however the teacher wants
me to. That doesn't mean I have to accept that way as the "right" way. I
just look at it as a challenge to see if I *can* do whatever is being
asked and try to leave the question of whether I *should* be doing it as a
separate issue.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

********************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but
ldfs@bigfoot.com warm-blooded"
********************************

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Message 42206 · Andrea Re · 20 Sep 2005 23:32:00 · Top

Hi Lara,

> Actually, it seems to me you have plenty of time to extend your foot
> at the end of the skip change. This is because the skip change of
> step actually begins at the *end* of the previous bar of music (on the
> upbeat), whereas the pas de basque begins on the downbeat.
>
> Let's say you were doing two skip change of step on bars 1-2 of a
> musical phrase. If you were going to continue with another skip
> change of step on bar 3, you'd be hopping and extending your foot
> towards 4th position on the last upbeat of the 2nd bar, then, on the
> downbeat of the 3rd bar, you step. If you are going to do a pas de
> basque on bar 3, you still have that last upbeat of bar 2 to extend
> your foot, but you leave out the hop. So you are actually doing *less*
> in the same amount of time than if you were doing another skip change
> of step.

Sorry, but I need to understand what you mean by up beat and down beat
(I reason with beats 1-2-3-and)

>
> Personally, I tend to make that extension at the end of the skip
> change towards 4th intermediate (like the jete at the end of the pas
> de basque) not 4th, if I am transitioning into pas de basque.
>
> That said, I do think this point is fairly trivial in actual practice,
> except perhaps in cases of high precision demonstrations or extremely
> picky examiners.

You are right indeed, although in a dem everybody should be able to do
the same, so it does have some practical use. Said that, I find the
point interesting per se: trying to put into words where a step starts
and where it finishes and how I move from one to the next makes me feel
more confortable that in front of a class I can answer difficult
questions without having to faff (sp.?) too much:)

>
> Also, just as a note of interest, I started dancing in 1989, and I
> always started my pas de basque with an extension to 4th intermediate
> (though I honestly can't remember if I was specifically taught to do
> this). When I took my full cert class in 2000, the tutor, who was
> also an examiner, specifically told us NOT to use the preliminary
> extension.

Pretty much, same here:(

>
> As others have already noted, fashions change. When I find my
> feathers getting ruffled because I have just been told that the way I
> have been previously taught to do something is no longer "correct" or
> the teacher in charge simply has a different preference, I remind
> myself that if I am really a good dancer, I should be able to do it
> however the teacher wants me to. That doesn't mean I have to accept
> that way as the "right" way. I just look at it as a challenge to see
> if I *can* do whatever is being asked and try to leave the question of
> whether I *should* be doing it as a separate issue.

Very true indeed!!

Thanks,

Andrea (fae Dundee)
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Message 42211 · Pia Walker · 21 Sep 2005 10:36:06 · Top

Ah! Try : And, 1, 2, 3

> Sorry, but I need to understand what you mean by up beat and down beat
> (I reason with beats 1-2-3-and)
>
>
Pia

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Message 42212 · Richard Goss · 21 Sep 2005 10:49:05 · Top

The "down beat" is always the first in the first bar, the "and" of the previous bar (even if not complete) is the "up" beat". Myself, and most musicians I know, count a reel, not as ...
"and 1 2 3" but, "and 1 and 2" which corresponds to "hop | step close step" the "|" being the bar line separating the measures. However there is a good reason for some using the
"and | 1 2 3" in teaching the pdb since this emphasizes the difference between the prep or jeté and the three beats, whereas the "& | 1 & 2" can easily support a "2 beat" pdb.

NB: this is really a misnomer as all pdb´s have 3 beats, the so called 2 beat refers to the fact that there are not three changes of weight or the 3 beats with weight change are syncopated.
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Message 42207 · Andrea Re · 20 Sep 2005 23:32:21 · Top

Hi Lara,

> Actually, it seems to me you have plenty of time to extend your foot
> at the end of the skip change. This is because the skip change of
> step actually begins at the *end* of the previous bar of music (on the
> upbeat), whereas the pas de basque begins on the downbeat.
>
> Let's say you were doing two skip change of step on bars 1-2 of a
> musical phrase. If you were going to continue with another skip
> change of step on bar 3, you'd be hopping and extending your foot
> towards 4th position on the last upbeat of the 2nd bar, then, on the
> downbeat of the 3rd bar, you step. If you are going to do a pas de
> basque on bar 3, you still have that last upbeat of bar 2 to extend
> your foot, but you leave out the hop. So you are actually doing *less*
> in the same amount of time than if you were doing another skip change
> of step.

Sorry, but I need to understand what you mean by up beat and down beat
(I reason with beats 1-2-3-and)

>
> Personally, I tend to make that extension at the end of the skip
> change towards 4th intermediate (like the jete at the end of the pas
> de basque) not 4th, if I am transitioning into pas de basque.
>
> That said, I do think this point is fairly trivial in actual practice,
> except perhaps in cases of high precision demonstrations or extremely
> picky examiners.

You are right indeed, although in a dem everybody should be able to do
the same, so it does have some practical use. Said that, I find the
point interesting per se: trying to put into words where a step starts
and where it finishes and how I move from one to the next makes me feel
more comfortable that in front of a class I can answer difficult
questions without having to faff (sp.?) too much:)

>
> Also, just as a note of interest, I started dancing in 1989, and I
> always started my pas de basque with an extension to 4th intermediate
> (though I honestly can't remember if I was specifically taught to do
> this). When I took my full cert class in 2000, the tutor, who was
> also an examiner, specifically told us NOT to use the preliminary
> extension.

Pretty much, same here:(

>
> As others have already noted, fashions change. When I find my
> feathers getting ruffled because I have just been told that the way I
> have been previously taught to do something is no longer "correct" or
> the teacher in charge simply has a different preference, I remind
> myself that if I am really a good dancer, I should be able to do it
> however the teacher wants me to. That doesn't mean I have to accept
> that way as the "right" way. I just look at it as a challenge to see
> if I *can* do whatever is being asked and try to leave the question of
> whether I *should* be doing it as a separate issue.

Very true indeed!!

Thanks,

Andrea (fae Dundee)
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Message 42208 · simon scott · 21 Sep 2005 00:27:34 · Top

All very well said Lara.
I think the preparatory extension (not over done)to start a pdb is a
most enjoyable and beneficial part of the step and will become part of
any good dancers movement.
Simon
Vancouver

-----Original Message-----
From: strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org
[mailto:strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org] On
Behalf Of L. Friedman~Shedlov
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:18 PM
To: SCD news and discussion
Subject: Re: Skip change into pdb

Actually, it seems to me you have plenty of time to extend your foot at
the end of the skip change. This is because the skip change of step
actually begins at the *end* of the previous bar of music (on the
upbeat),
whereas the pas de basque begins on the downbeat.

Let's say you were doing two skip change of step on bars 1-2 of a
musical
phrase. If you were going to continue with another skip change of step
on bar 3, you'd be hopping and extending your foot towards 4th position
on the last upbeat of the 2nd bar, then, on the downbeat of the
3rd bar, you step. If you are going to do a pas de basque on bar 3, you

still have that last upbeat of bar 2 to extend your foot, but you leave
out the hop. So you are actually doing *less* in the same amount of time

than if you were doing another skip change of step.

Personally, I tend to make that extension at the end of the skip
change towards 4th intermediate (like the jete at the end of the pas de
basque) not 4th, if I am transitioning into pas de basque.

That said, I do think this point is fairly trivial in actual practice,
except perhaps in cases of high precision demonstrations or extremely
picky examiners.

Also, just as a note of interest, I started dancing in 1989, and I
always
started my pas de basque with an extension to 4th intermediate (though I

honestly can't remember if I was specifically taught to do this). When
I
took my full cert class in 2000, the tutor, who was also an examiner,
specifically told us NOT to use the preliminary extension.

As others have already noted, fashions change. When I find my feathers
getting ruffled because I have just been told that the way I have been
previously taught to do something is no longer "correct" or the teacher
in
charge simply has a different preference, I remind myself that if I am
really a good dancer, I should be able to do it however the teacher
wants
me to. That doesn't mean I have to accept that way as the "right" way.
I
just look at it as a challenge to see if I *can* do whatever is being
asked and try to leave the question of whether I *should* be doing it as
a
separate issue.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

********************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but
ldfs@bigfoot.com warm-blooded"
********************************

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Message 42210 · Beth Kingsley · 21 Sep 2005 01:26:11 · Top

I feel like I must be the only one in the opposing camp. To me, pas de
basque ends with a jete, it doesn't start with one. It begins with a
spring, or disassemble. Those who enjoy extending the foot before a first
pdb are welcome to do so, but it feels odd to me.

Hey, can we start a major feud over this? ;)

Beth

----- Original Message -----
From: "simon scott" <simon.scott@telus.net>
To: "'SCD news and discussion'" <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: Skip change into pdb

> All very well said Lara.
> I think the preparatory extension (not over done)to start a pdb is a
> most enjoyable and beneficial part of the step and will become part of
> any good dancers movement.
> Simon
> Vancouver
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org
> [mailto:strathspey-bounces-simon.scott=telus.net@strathspey.org] On
> Behalf Of L. Friedman~Shedlov
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:18 PM
> To: SCD news and discussion
> Subject: Re: Skip change into pdb
>
>
> Actually, it seems to me you have plenty of time to extend your foot at
> the end of the skip change. This is because the skip change of step
> actually begins at the *end* of the previous bar of music (on the
> upbeat),
> whereas the pas de basque begins on the downbeat.
>
> Let's say you were doing two skip change of step on bars 1-2 of a
> musical
> phrase. If you were going to continue with another skip change of step
> on bar 3, you'd be hopping and extending your foot towards 4th position
> on the last upbeat of the 2nd bar, then, on the downbeat of the
> 3rd bar, you step. If you are going to do a pas de basque on bar 3, you
>
> still have that last upbeat of bar 2 to extend your foot, but you leave
> out the hop. So you are actually doing *less* in the same amount of time
>
> than if you were doing another skip change of step.
>
> Personally, I tend to make that extension at the end of the skip
> change towards 4th intermediate (like the jete at the end of the pas de
> basque) not 4th, if I am transitioning into pas de basque.
>
> That said, I do think this point is fairly trivial in actual practice,
> except perhaps in cases of high precision demonstrations or extremely
> picky examiners.
>
> Also, just as a note of interest, I started dancing in 1989, and I
> always
> started my pas de basque with an extension to 4th intermediate (though I
>
> honestly can't remember if I was specifically taught to do this). When
> I
> took my full cert class in 2000, the tutor, who was also an examiner,
> specifically told us NOT to use the preliminary extension.
>
> As others have already noted, fashions change. When I find my feathers
> getting ruffled because I have just been told that the way I have been
> previously taught to do something is no longer "correct" or the teacher
> in
> charge simply has a different preference, I remind myself that if I am
> really a good dancer, I should be able to do it however the teacher
> wants
> me to. That doesn't mean I have to accept that way as the "right" way.
> I
> just look at it as a challenge to see if I *can* do whatever is being
> asked and try to leave the question of whether I *should* be doing it as
> a
> separate issue.
>
>
> / Lara Friedman-Shedlov
> Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
>
>
> ********************************
> Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but
> ldfs@bigfoot.com warm-blooded"
> ********************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://strathspey.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/strathspey

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Message 42216 · john.m.sturrock · 21 Sep 2005 14:15:52 · Top

Beth Kingsley wrote : -

>I feel like I must be the only one in the opposing camp. To me, pas de
>basque ends with a jete, it doesn't start with one. It begins with a
>spring, or disassemble. Those who enjoy extending the foot before a first
>pdb are welcome to do so, but it feels odd to me.
>
> Hey, can we start a major feud over this?

No feud, Beth, because I am with you on this!

Much confusion could be avoided by ceasing to refer to any prelimary outward
movement of a leg as a Jete, or an Extension, and instead refer to it as
an (optional) Address, or some such similar word, reserving the words
Jete or Extension for their proper place at the end of a bar.

John M Sturrock
Cupar UK

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Message 42217 · Wouter Joubert · 21 Sep 2005 15:32:17 · Top

>No feud, Beth, because I am with you on this!

Much confusion could be avoided by ceasing to refer to any prelimary outward
movement of a leg as a Jete, or an Extension, and instead refer to it as
an (optional) Address, or some such similar word, reserving the words
Jete or Extension for their proper place at the end of a bar.

John M Sturrock
Cupar UK<

Is not an extention or Jetté by default an outward movement of a leg in SCD, prelimary or final?

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria
South Africa
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Message 42218 · Wouter Joubert · 21 Sep 2005 15:36:01 · Top

>While working at the School of Scottish Studies (late 70´s - early 80´s), this subject came up. I was video taping Scottish dance for their archives at the time and annotating the steps using Labán. Yes, this might seem so, but based on taped evidence, while your two beats seem to be so, in actuall fact the assembly and the jetté, are actually two movements each, one on the musical beat, and the other near to it, as I mentioned in my post, syncopated. To put this in word terms, what you are calling
------------------------------------2-------------------------|1--------------------------2---------------
------------------------------------0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9|0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-1-2-3-4-5
2: beat+beat ---------------------------------------------|1--------------------------2
is actually ...
4: ka-thump+thump-ah------------------------------&|1---------------------------2&
when correct would be ...
4: jetté+beat+beat+beat---------------&-------------|1------------2-------------3
Syncopation meaning "&" at pos. - - - & & & &- - - - - - - - - - - - (and) -&&&&
which includes what you felt you saw.<

I'll grant you your video evidence Richard.

To my naked eye (and ear) it still is a two beat Pas de Basque which I will lovingly continue to try and change to a more perceptable 3 beats.

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria
South Africa
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Message 42224 · Richard Goss · 21 Sep 2005 18:52:37 · Top

As will I, the problem being that the SOBHD, younger than the RSCDS has standardized the one you describe, and in many areas the RSCDS has had to play little brother to the Highland dance style in popular imagination - note the one you describe and try to avoid in your teaching is the one seen in most Hollywood productions.

There is a teacher, Eleanor McKenzie (Vandegrift) [¿spelling¿], who somehow got herself in the middle of a photo on a record jacket of disc with pop caleidh dances (before she got her prelim - I think the photo was taken in New York). Anyway as a still, this shot shows one of your two beats.
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Message 42225 · Jock McVlug · 21 Sep 2005 19:25:45 · Top

So far we have only seen discussion of PB in 'reel' time and done 'on the
spot'.
How about PB in jig time, and the travelling PB (as in petronella
turning)???

Jack from the sunshine coast in BC

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Message 42229 · e.ferguson · 21 Sep 2005 23:48:52 · Top

Dear Lara,

I want to say how warmly I agree with what you wrote to Strathspey on 20
Sep 2005 at 17:18,

> <.....> When I find my feathers getting ruffled because I have just been
> told that the way I have been previously taught to do something is no
> longer "correct" or the teacher in charge simply has a different
> preference, I remind myself that if I am really a good dancer, I should be
> able to do it however the teacher wants me to. That doesn't mean I have to
> accept that way as the "right" way. I just look at it as a challenge to see
> if I *can* do whatever is being asked and try to leave the question of
> whether I *should* be doing it as a separate issue.

That applies to "technique". But if a teacher makes a mistake in a dance,
I will usually ask an "innocuous-sounding" question which makes her/him
think again and discover the mistake. I would not worry about the error
myself, but I do find it upsetting for others, who then learn it wrong and
will have to unlearn it later.

On "doing what you are asked to do", I remember the late Derek Haynes, who
once demonstrated us five different ways of changing foot in PdB. I
remember only two. I wish I had remembered them all. He was a wonder with
his feet, doing indeed anything he wished, with the highest precision.

Enough of soapbox.

Happy dancing,

Eric

--
Eric T. Ferguson,
van Reenenweg 3, 3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands
tel: (+31)(0) 30-2673638 mobile: (+31)(0) 6 4437 8997
e-mail: e.ferguson@antenna.nl

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Message 42209 · Ron Mackey · 21 Sep 2005 01:02:24 · Top

. Personally, I am
> not always able to do so now as I was only a few years ago. Regards,
> Iain Boyd Wellington New Zealand
>

Yes, time does tell but it looked OK to me, Ian. Mind, I wasn't
watching every step! :)

` I suppose this will, in time, get to the counting game which we
used to indulge in many years ago. Who remembers the time when
one counted the p-de-b as 'One, Two, Three, And>' whereas the Skip
Change was counted 'And, One, Two, Three>'
It seem a long time ago when we discussed whether to hang the
extended foot out for the second 'and' during the transfer from p-de-b to
S.C. or to make it a double movement and risk falling over one's own
feet!
I know I'm very wicked to start this one but I couldn't resist! :))
P.S. I notice that Lara alludes to this quandry musically.
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Message 42213 · Ian Brockbank · 21 Sep 2005 11:13:24 · Top

Hi Ron,

> ` I suppose this will, in time, get to the counting game which we
> used to indulge in many years ago. Who remembers the time when
> one counted the p-de-b as 'One, Two, Three, And>' whereas the Skip
> Change was counted 'And, One, Two, Three>'
> It seem a long time ago when we discussed whether to hang the
> extended foot out for the second 'and' during the transfer
> from p-de-b to
> S.C. or to make it a double movement and risk falling over one's own
> feet!

There _is_ no second "and". The two different countings start at different
points in the bar:

And | 1 2 3 And | 1 2 3
<-- p-de-b -->
<--skip ch-->

And this counting for the pas-de-basque considers the jete as the finish of
the step, thus leaving a preliminary jete as purely a matter of taste.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank
Edinburgh, Scotland
ian@scottishdance.net
http://www.scottishdance.net/

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Message 42214 · Wouter Joubert · 21 Sep 2005 13:10:18 · Top

>The "down beat" is always the first in the first bar, the "and" of the previous bar (even if not complete) is the "up" beat". Myself, and most musicians I know, count a reel, not as ...
"and 1 2 3" but, "and 1 and 2" which corresponds to "hop | step close step" the "|" being the bar line separating the measures. However there is a good reason for some using the
"and | 1 2 3" in teaching the pdb since this emphasizes the difference between the prep or jeté and the three beats, whereas the "& | 1 & 2" can easily support a "2 beat" pdb.

NB: this is really a misnomer as all pdb´s have 3 beats, the so called 2 beat refers to the fact that there are not three changes of weight or the 3 beats with weight change are syncopated.<

Hi Richard

I have to disagree with your last statement. We have people in our group that uses beats 1&2 in a bar for an assemble and beats 3&4 for the Jetté which gives a very definate two beats only I can assure you.

Wouter Joubert
Pretoria
South Africa
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Message 42215 · Richard Goss · 21 Sep 2005 13:58:07 · Top

"We have people in our group that uses beats 1&2 in a bar for an assemble and beats 3&4 for the Jetté which gives a very definate two beats only I can assure you. Wouter"

While working at the School of Scottish Studies (late 70´s - early 80´s), this subject came up. I was video taping Scottish dance for their archives at the time and annotating the steps using Labán. Yes, this might seem so, but based on taped evidence, while your two beats seem to be so, in actuall fact the assembly and the jetté, are actually two movements each, one on the musical beat, and the other near to it, as I mentioned in my post, syncopated. To put this in word terms, what you are calling
------------------------------------2-------------------------|1--------------------------2---------------
------------------------------------0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9|0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-1-2-3-4-5
2: beat+beat ---------------------------------------------|1--------------------------2
is actually ...
4: ka-thump+thump-ah------------------------------&|1---------------------------2&
when correct would be ...
4: jetté+beat+beat+beat---------------&-------------|1------------2-------------3
Syncopation meaning "&" at pos. - - - & & & &- - - - - - - - - - - - (and) -&&&&
which includes what you felt you saw.
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Message 42228 · Ron Mackey · 21 Sep 2005 23:47:24 · Top

> on taped evidence, while your two beats seem to be so, in actuall fact
> the assembly and the jetté, are actually two movements each, one on
> the musical beat, and the other near to it, as I mentioned in my post,
> syncopated. To put this in word terms, what you are calling
> ------------------------------------2-------------------------|1-------
> -------------------2---------------
> ------------------------------------0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9|0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7
> -8-9-0-1-2-3-4-5 2: beat+beat
> ---------------------------------------------|1------------------------
> --2 is actually ... 4:

Are we talking Reel or Jig here? :))

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Message 42220 · Steve Wyrick · 21 Sep 2005 17:39:41 · Top

Ian Brockbank said:

> There _is_ no second "and". The two different countings start at
> different
> points in the bar:
>
> And | 1 2 3 And | 1 2 3
> <-- p-de-b -->
> <--skip ch-->
>
> And this counting for the pas-de-basque considers the jete as the finish
> of
> the step, thus leaving a preliminary jete as purely a matter of taste.

Even though the above count is the way it's always taught, I'm of the
opinion that there HAS to be a preliminary "and" of some sort in the PDB,
whether or not it's emphasized with an extension, otherwise you fall over
when you try to step onto a foot that's already on the floor! Unless
you're referring specifically to the situation where the right foot's
already in the air at the conclusion of a skip-change step? -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42221 · simon scott · 21 Sep 2005 18:06:35 · Top

Ian Brockbank said:

> There _is_ no second "and". The two different countings start at
> different points in the bar:
>
> And | 1 2 3 And | 1 2 3
> <-- p-de-b -->
> <--skip ch-->
>
> And this counting for the pas-de-basque considers the jete as the
> finish of the step, thus leaving a preliminary jete as purely a matter

> of taste.

>Even though the above count is the way it's always taught, I'm of the
opinion that there
>HAS to be a preliminary "and" of some sort in the PDB, whether or not
it's emphasized with >an extension, otherwise you fall over when you try
to step onto a foot that's already on
>the floor! Unless you're referring specifically to the situation where
the right foot's
>already in the air at the conclusion of a skip-change step? -Steve
--
>Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

I agree with Ian and Steve

In skip change the step begins with a lift "up", "off the floor" from
where the foot has been.

In bdp the step begins "down", "into the floor" which for me, means it
has come from a place above the floor, that being the preparatory jete.

I believe these are the two character distinctions between the two
steps. One is "up' and one is "down" to start.

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42222 · Jan E Rudge · 21 Sep 2005 18:47:37 · Top

Beth wrote:-
> I feel like I must be the only one in the opposing camp.
> To me, pas de basque ends with a jete, it doesn't start
> with one. It begins with a spring, or disassemble.
> Those who enjoy extending the foot before a first pdb
> are welcome to do so, but it feels odd to me.

I would say you are right that a pdb begins with a spring, but that is not
the same as a disassemble. A spring is a jump from one foot on to
the other foot, whereas a disassemble is a jump which begins with
both feet on the floor.

To do a pdb from a standing start, you must prepare by lifting one foot
clear of the floor so that you can spring on to it.

The debatable point is whether you just let the foot hang there
somewhere or if you extend it towards 4th intermediate. This
seems to be down the preference of each teacher and probably
depends how they themselves were originally taught.

Jan

Beaconsfield, UK
RSCDS London Branch
(where the dem team do pdb's without an extension either at
the beginning or when changing from skip-change into pdb)

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42223 · L. Friedman-Shedlov · 21 Sep 2005 18:51:28 · Top

> In skip change the step begins with a lift "up", "off the floor" from
> where the foot has been.
>
> In bdp the step begins "down", "into the floor" which for me, means it
> has come from a place above the floor, that being the preparatory jete.

Ideally, yes, but it is not absolutely necessary. It is *possible* to
start the pas de basque literally from 1st position, with both feet on
the floor. On the first beat, you would transfer your weight to the
right foot, bending the knee, while lifting the left foot. I think most
would agree it is a lot less awkward to at least lift the right foot off
the floor slightly before stepping down on it, if not do a full
preperatory extension, but it isn't technically necessary. So it's nice
to have an upbeat to do this preparation, but it isn't technically part
of the step to do so.

/ Lara Friedman-Shedlov
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

********************************
Lara Friedman~Shedlov "Librarians -- Like Google, but
ldfs@bigfoot.com warm-blooded"
********************************
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Skip change and pdb

Message 42260 · Ron Mackey · 22 Sep 2005 23:43:55 · Top

Well, that was a bit of fun?! :))

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Message 42227 · Ron Mackey · 21 Sep 2005 23:47:24 · Top

> There _is_ no second "and". The two different countings start at different
> points in the bar:
>
> And | 1 2 3 And | 1 2 3
> <-- p-de-b -->
> <--skip ch-->
>
> And this counting for the pas-de-basque considers the jete as the finish of
> the step, thus leaving a preliminary jete as purely a matter of taste.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian Brockbank

Hmm, yes. But when I learnt my p-de-b it was alternatively
counted 1,2,3,4. To reel time of course! So the extension (I don't like
jete!) or disassemble was on beat 4.

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Skip change into pdb

Message 42230 · Andrea Re · 22 Sep 2005 00:11:23 · Top

Ron Mackey ha scritto:

>>There _is_ no second "and". The two different countings start at different
>>points in the bar:
>>
>>And | 1 2 3 And | 1 2 3
>> <-- p-de-b -->
>><--skip ch-->
>>
>>And this counting for the pas-de-basque considers the jete as the finish of
>>the step, thus leaving a preliminary jete as purely a matter of taste.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Ian Brockbank
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, yes. But when I learnt my p-de-b it was alternatively
>counted 1,2,3,4. To reel time of course! So the extension (I don't like
>jete!) or disassemble was on beat 4.
>
>
Actually, the way I see it, the step finishes with a "hold" on beat 3
since the next bit is really a preparation for the next step.
beginning of 1 -> land on the R
beginning of 2 -> beat (land on) left
beginning of 3 -> beat (land on) R and extend left and hold
beginning of 4 -> (hold and) retract/spring ready to

beginning of 1 -> land on the R

This makes an argument for starting the step in FRONT, since it seems
only logical.... after all the step continues like that after the very
first beat.

Enough... it is late.....

Andrea (fae Dundee)

As I was talking to somebody, what about skip change into pdb ADVANCING
(as in Fife Mess)?
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Message 42244 · Steve Wyrick · 22 Sep 2005 18:14:45 · Top

Jock McVlug wrote:

> So far we have only seen discussion of PB in 'reel' time and done 'on the
> spot'.
> How about PB in jig time, and the travelling PB (as in petronella
> turning)???
>
> Jack from the sunshine coast in BC

I've observed that many dancers around here put the pause in jig-time pdb
in the wrong spot, i.e. between the 2 beats (step-beat; beat) instead of
after the step (step; beat-beat) where it belongs to follow the rhythm of
the music. I've also been surprised by how many dancers can't tell
whether the music they're dancing to is a jig or a reel and suspect that
these two things are connected and if one can't hear or ignores the
difference in rhythms between the two tune forms, the natural tendency may
be to put the 2nd foot down earlier (similar to reel-time) and then pause
so that the next foot comes down on the strong beat. I wonder if this is
because teachers are told to use jigs for teaching skip-change and reels
for teaching pdb, and don't seem to spend much time teaching their dancers
to distinguish between the two. -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick - Concord, California

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