strathspey Archive: Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

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Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 37975 · Marilyn Knight · 11 Mar 2004 19:45:51 · Top

I regret to say I have witnessed classes where 'grumpiness/rudeness'
seemed to be a badge of expertise....maybe in lieu of
skill/knowledge/etc... My own worldview says cheerful spirit makes
learning easier and more pleasant for everyone....

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 37981 · Pia Walker · 11 Mar 2004 20:40:38 · Top

This is a very important aspect of teaching anything - if you approach
learning as "of course you can do it - why should you be different from
anybody else" and if the teacher does the same thing, the success rate will
be much bigger.

Everybody can learn anything - for some it takes longer than others, but we
all have the capability.

Unfortunately, and this is probably where the "you are not here to have fun"
stems from - the schools seem to teach from the opposite aspect - "if you
can't do this by now - you are stupid - and will never be able to do it
ever" - teachers correct mistakes, bad behaviour, etc., but in the day to
day stresses of teaching seldom says "well done" - with regards to Scottish
Dancing remember most of the Old School og RSCDS teachers were
teacher-trained (mostly from the same place) and so all were instilled with
the same rules, rules that perhaps are changing as people realize that for
many it is a hobby not a religion :>). Unfortunately this negative attitude
is still happening - my son has just had a comment from school, that he
would have difficulties in RE-SITTING his Higher Biology - unfortunately he
has not yet SAT his Higher Biology, so is this not a message to him that he
is going to fail whatever he does?

Pia
All people start with a right leg and a left leg and when starting to dance
exchange a right leg for a left leg.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marilynn Knight" <MarilynnK@scchamber.net>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

I regret to say I have witnessed classes where 'grumpiness/rudeness'
seemed to be a badge of expertise....maybe in lieu of
skill/knowledge/etc... My own worldview says cheerful spirit makes
learning easier and more pleasant for everyone....

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 37984 · Thomas G. Mungall, III · 11 Mar 2004 20:55:10 · Top

I have found that in long all day dance workshops, I get grumpy near the end
of the day, after I am getting tired. That's when the teachers decide to
throw the harder stuff at you and I find that my learning curve is saturated
and I have little energy left. Teachers should, I believe, throw the hard
stuff at you earlier in the day after the students are fully warmed up, but
before we are tired.

Tom Mungall
Baton Rouge, La, USA

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 37997 · Elainerb · 11 Mar 2004 23:56:00 · Top

In a message dated 3/11/2004 1:46:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
MarilynnK@scchamber.net writes:

> I regret to say I have witnessed classes where 'grumpiness/rudeness'
> seemed to be a badge of expertise....maybe in lieu of
> skill/knowledge/etc..

I think we all have witnessed the 'grumpy/rude' teachers. But I know I have
had many more experiences with fun, happy, nice, KIND teachers.

Lets not get too bogged down with the 'BAD' teachers. There is a very easy
answer.
Don't invite them to teach a workshop, or just don't go back to their
classes. As Stella said, if no one is there, who can they teach?

Maybe we need to be more willing to share info on 'bad' teachers. We are
all willing to rave about the good ones, but rarely post about negative
experiences.

I should be careful what I suggest, I'm teaching a workshop this weekend!
I promise to be kind and do the 'hard stuff' in the morning! :-)_

Elaine

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38003 · Jim and Donna Ferguson · 12 Mar 2004 07:19:05 · Top

----- Original Message -----
From: <Elainerb@aol.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:55 PM
> I think we all have witnessed the 'grumpy/rude' teachers. But I know I
have had many more experiences with fun, happy, nice, KIND teachers.

Let's not get too bogged down with the 'BAD' teachers. There is a very
easy answer. Don't invite them to teach a workshop, or just don't go back
to their classes. As Stella said, if no one is there, who can they teach?

Maybe we need to be more willing to share info on 'bad' teachers. We are
all willing to rave about the good ones, but rarely post about negative
experiences.

I should be careful what I suggest, I'm teaching a workshop this weekend!
I promise to be kind and do the 'hard stuff' in the morning! :-)_
Elaine >

Elaine,

We'll be at that workshop, so we'll hold you to that promise.
(we'll have a bottle of wine in our room in case you need something to give
you a happier disposition.) :>) :>)

Jim and Donna

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38008 · T L Harris · 12 Mar 2004 09:28:12 · Top

>>> Elainerb@aol.com 12-03-04 12:55 >>>
<snip>
<<<Lets not get too bogged down with the 'BAD' teachers. There is a very easy answer. Don't invite them to teach a workshop, or just don't go back to their classes. As Stella said, if no one is there, who can they teach?<<<

That's fine if there is a choice of teachers and a choice of classes. I envy SCDers with that sort of choice. But what do you do if your SCD group is too small to have more than one class, the choice of teachers in the branch is limited and it's impossible to exclude a teacher without causing a lot of ill feeling?

Terry Lynne Harris
Pretoria, South Africa

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Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38049 · Ron Mackey · 13 Mar 2004 00:49:12 · Top

On 12 Mar 2004 at 10:28, T L Harris wrote:

> >>> Elainerb@aol.com 12-03-04 12:55 >>>
> <snip>
> <<<Lets not get too bogged down with the 'BAD' teachers. There is a very easy answer. Don't invite them to teach a workshop, or just don't go back to their classes. As Stella said, if no one is there, who can they teach?<<<
>
> That's fine if there is a choice of teachers and a choice of classes. I envy SCDers with that sort of choice. But what do you do if your SCD group is too small to have more than one class, the choice of teachers in the branch is limited and it's impossible to exclude a teacher without causing a lot of ill feeling?
>
> Terry Lynne Harris
> Pretoria, South Africa

What happens?? You have problems! :~)

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38059 · Wouter Joubert · 13 Mar 2004 07:03:45 · Top

But where there is a will there will be a way! I firmly believe in
that!!!

Wouter Joubert

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Mackey [mailto:Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com]
Sent: 13 March 2004 01:49 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

On 12 Mar 2004 at 10:28, T L Harris wrote:

> >>> Elainerb@aol.com 12-03-04 12:55 >>>
> <snip>
> <<<Lets not get too bogged down with the 'BAD' teachers. There is a
very easy answer. Don't invite them to teach a workshop, or just don't
go back to their classes. As Stella said, if no one is there, who can
they teach?<<<
>
> That's fine if there is a choice of teachers and a choice of classes.
I envy SCDers with that sort of choice. But what do you do if your SCD
group is too small to have more than one class, the choice of teachers
in the branch is limited and it's impossible to exclude a teacher
without causing a lot of ill feeling?
>
> Terry Lynne Harris
> Pretoria, South Africa

What happens?? You have problems! :~)

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38082 · hways · 13 Mar 2004 23:19:43 · Top

Ill feelings for the teacher, or the members of the class? If the teacher's
behavior is annoying members, not taking action only perpetuates the
problem. Better in the long run to turn the instruction over to someone
else. It has been done before.

Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Mackey" <Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com>
> > That's fine if there is a choice of teachers and a choice of classes. I
envy SCDers with that sort of choice. But what do you do if your SCD group
is too small to have more than one class, the choice of teachers in the
branch is limited and it's impossible to exclude a teacher without causing a
lot of ill feeling?
> >
> > Terry Lynne Harris
> > Pretoria, South Africa
>
> What happens?? You have problems! :~)
>

Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38119 · T L Harris · 15 Mar 2004 07:33:21 · Top

Well, both actually. Some club members, including about half the committee members, are seemingly happy with the state of affairs. I was soundly berated by said committee members for daring to object to the status quo. It all boils down to club politics, I'm afraid.

Terry Lynne Harris
Pretoria, South Africa

>>> hways@ix.netcom.com 14-03-04 12:19 >>>
Ill feelings for the teacher, or the members of the class? If the teacher's behavior is annoying members, not taking action only perpetuates the problem. Better in the long run to turn the instruction over to someone else. It has been done before.

Harry

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Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Message 38169 · Chris1Ronald · 17 Mar 2004 03:20:51 · Top

Pia wrote:

"If you approach > learning as "of course you can do it - why should you be
> different from
> anybody else" and if the teacher does the same thing, the success rate will
> be much bigger."

I'm coming into this discussion rather late, I know, but Pia's apt comment
reminded me of something that my wife sometimes points out. That is, if the
class fails to learn something, it's the teacher's fault. Period. (as they say in
the US.)

Why? Because it's the teacher who is in control, who decides what material
can/should be taught, who decides how to teach that material, etc. So, if the
class are struggling or unhappy, it's up to the teacher to ask him/herself, how
could I do this better? Rather than to say: "This is easy, you shouldn't
have any difficulty with it!"

Chris.

PS My wife is a trained primary school teacher.

Whose job is it? (was "Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...")

Message 38172 · Leslie · 17 Mar 2004 08:45:29 · Top

I'm afraid the same principle does not hold at the secondary level (and can
therefore not accurately used as a blanket statement). Many of my students
simply didn't care, and I never felt the need to take responsibility for
that, in spite of the current administrative trends. I think there must be
a middle ground. While the teacher decides the content and the methods, the
students must be ready, willing and able. In SCD terms, "ready" and
"willing" are usually not an issue, but "able" is variable. As it is in any
discipline. Good teachers tend to encourage, and to track improvement,
rather than set a high goal and then not count the student as "finished"
until that goal is reached. So the comment "Of course you can do it!" is a
natural one for a teacher to make, and should be used to help the student
believe that they can accomplish something, but it in no way makes it the
teacher's fault if they don't.

My two cents.

Leslie

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris1Ronald@aol.com [mailto:Chris1Ronald@aol.com]
Sent: 17 March 2004 02:21
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Grumpy classes and maybe grumpy teachers...

Pia wrote:

"If you approach > learning as "of course you can do it - why should you be
> different from
> anybody else" and if the teacher does the same thing, the success rate
will
> be much bigger."

I'm coming into this discussion rather late, I know, but Pia's apt comment
reminded me of something that my wife sometimes points out. That is, if the
class fails to learn something, it's the teacher's fault. Period. (as they
say in
the US.)

Why? Because it's the teacher who is in control, who decides what material
can/should be taught, who decides how to teach that material, etc. So, if
the
class are struggling or unhappy, it's up to the teacher to ask him/herself,
how
could I do this better? Rather than to say: "This is easy, you shouldn't
have any difficulty with it!"

Chris.

PS My wife is a trained primary school teacher.

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