strathspey Archive: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

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Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36213 · Steve Wyrick · 19 Aug 2003 01:13:23 · Top

We're having trouble reconciling different descriptions of bars 9-16 of Lady
Susan Stewart's Reel (Book 5 #9). The cribs we consulted, plus Pilling's
green book (5th and 7th ed's), show this as set to corners & partner
(hello-goodbye setting), however the instructions from the compact version
of Book 5 state the following:

9 - 12 1S set to first corners, then turn corners by the right hand
(in four bars) to finish on the sidelines. 1S set to
partner across the dance on last two bars.
13 - 16 1S set to second corners, then turn corners by the right hand
(in four bars) to finish 1L between the 3S, 1M between the 2S
facing up and down the dance. 1S set to partner up and down
the dance on last two bars.

Is this an error? It seems that the description above is impossible to do
in 8 bars. I've never danced this but it's on the program of the SF
Branch's upcoming Jean Patrick Memorial Dance. A search of the Strathspey
archives revealed that several posters include it on their list of favorite
dances so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me! -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36214 · marjoriem · 19 Aug 2003 02:10:58 · Top

Without question bars 9-16 are "set to corners and partner" or
hello-goodbye setting". I've never seen a description such as the one you
cited in either the large RSCDS book or any editions of the pocket books
that I have.

And as for being a favorite dance, it is certainly one of mine and I look
forward to enjoying it at the Jean Patrick Memorial Dance.

Marjorie McLaughlin
San Diego, CA

-------Original Message-------

From: strathspey@strathspey.org
Date: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:13:55 PM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

We're having trouble reconciling different descriptions of bars 9-16 of Lady
Susan Stewart's Reel (Book 5 #9). The cribs we consulted, plus Pilling's
green book (5th and 7th ed's), show this as set to corners & partner
(hello-goodbye setting), however the instructions from the compact version
of Book 5 state the following:

9 - 12 1S set to first corners, then turn corners by the right hand
(in four bars) to finish on the sidelines. 1S set to
partner across the dance on last two bars.
13 - 16 1S set to second corners, then turn corners by the right hand
(in four bars) to finish 1L between the 3S, 1M between the 2S
facing up and down the dance. 1S set to partner up and down
the dance on last two bars.

Is this an error? It seems that the description above is impossible to do
in 8 bars. I've never danced this but it's on the program of the SF
Branch's upcoming Jean Patrick Memorial Dance. A search of the Strathspey
archives revealed that several posters include it on their list of favorite
dances so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me! -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California


.

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36215 · Steve Wyrick · 19 Aug 2003 03:17:10 · Top

Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

> Without question bars 9-16 are "set to corners and partner" or
> hello-goodbye setting". I've never seen a description such as the one you
> cited in either the large RSCDS book or any editions of the pocket books
> that I have.
>
>
>
> And as for being a favorite dance, it is certainly one of mine and I look
> forward to enjoying it at the Jean Patrick Memorial Dance.
>
>

Hi Marjorie, I was pretty sure the hello-goodbye setting had to be right;
thanks for confirming it! -Steve
--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36219 · Patricia Ruggiero · 19 Aug 2003 04:09:50 · Top

Steve wrote:

> however the instructions from the compact version
> of Book 5 state the following:
>
> 9 - 12 1S set to first corners, then turn corners by the right hand
> (in four bars) to finish on the sidelines. 1S set to
> partner across the dance on last two bars.
> 13 - 16 1S set to second corners, then turn corners by the right hand
> (in four bars) to finish 1L between the 3S, 1M between the 2S
> facing up and down the dance. 1S set to partner up and down
> the dance on last two bars.

Here is what my Pocket Edition says:

9-12. Set to first corner, turn by right and set to partner across the
dance.
13-16. Set to second corner, turn by right and set to partner up and own
the dance.

My understanding is that the expression "turn by right" was deemed ambiguous
and later replaced by the direction to pull back one's right shoulder
(giving us the familiar Hello-Goodbye figure).

It looks as if the editor of your version was, indeed, confused by "turn by
right," so much so that a need was felt to elaborate on it and render it
undanceable in eight bars!

Pat

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36239 · Steve Wyrick · 19 Aug 2003 19:58:07 · Top

I think I'm guilty of causing a problem where none really exists. Because
of a misunderstanding I think I posted an interpretation of the instructions
from a friend, rather than the quote from the pocket book, which I think
contains the words Pat noted below. Sorry about that, but thanks for all
the useful information! -Steve

Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> however the instructions from the compact version
>> of Book 5 state the following:
>>
>> 9 - 12 1S set to first corners, then turn corners by the right hand
>> (in four bars) to finish on the sidelines. 1S set to
>> partner across the dance on last two bars.
>> 13 - 16 1S set to second corners, then turn corners by the right hand
>> (in four bars) to finish 1L between the 3S, 1M between the 2S
>> facing up and down the dance. 1S set to partner up and down
>> the dance on last two bars.
>
> Here is what my Pocket Edition says:
>
> 9-12. Set to first corner, turn by right and set to partner across the
> dance.
> 13-16. Set to second corner, turn by right and set to partner up and own
> the dance.
>
> My understanding is that the expression "turn by right" was deemed ambiguous
> and later replaced by the direction to pull back one's right shoulder
> (giving us the familiar Hello-Goodbye figure).
>
> It looks as if the editor of your version was, indeed, confused by "turn by
> right," so much so that a need was felt to elaborate on it and render it
> undanceable in eight bars!
>
> Pat

--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36250 · DonaldMackay · 20 Aug 2003 00:01:33 · Top

Return Receipt

Your RE: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?
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was Donald Mackay/UK/IBM
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at: 19/08/2003 22:50:59

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36220 · e.ferguson · 19 Aug 2003 10:05:25 · Top

Here comes yet another "official" RSCDS version.

In reply to Steve Wyrick, who wrote:" [v1]

> however the instructions from the compact version
> of Book 5 state the following:

> 9 - 12 1S set to first corners, then turn corners by the right hand
> (in four bars) to finish on the sidelines. 1S set to
> partner across the dance on last two bars.
> 13 - 16 1S set to second corners, then turn corners by the right hand
> (in four bars) to finish 1L between the 3S, 1M between the 2S
> facing up and down the dance. 1S set to partner up and down
> the dance on last two bars.

Patricia Ruggiero replied [v2]:

> Here is what my Pocket Edition says:
>
> 9-12. Set to first corner, turn by right and set to partner across the
> dance.
> 13-16. Set to second corner, turn by right and set to partner up and down
> the dance.
>
> My understanding is that the expression "turn by right" was deemed ambiguous
> and later replaced by the direction to pull back one's right shoulder
> (giving us the familiar Hello-Goodbye figure).
>
> It looks as if the editor of your version was, indeed, confused by "turn by
> right," so much so that a need was felt to elaborate on it and render it
> undanceable in eight bars!

and Greg Reznick added a very slightly different wording [v3]:

> However, my big Book 5 (revised 1964) gives instructions similar to
> what you found:

> 9-12 Set to first corner and turn by right and set to partner across
> the dance. 13-16 Set to second corners and turn by right and set to
> partner up and down the dance.

So I [Eric F] took a look at my own Pocket Edition (books 4, 5 and 6,
green cover, reprinted 1986), where I read [v4]:

9-12 1st couple set to first corners, then to each other across the
dance, set to second corners, then to each other up and down the dance,
turning by pulling right shoulder back throughout.

That is "Hello-Goodbye" setting, clearly worded.

For this dance, the substantive issue now seems to be solved, but I am
still not convinced this listing includes all the published RSCDS
versions.

For the bigger issue, that the RSCDS changes the texts in its books
without warning, see my other posting.

Happy dancing,

Eric

--
Eric T. Ferguson,
van Reenenweg 3, 3702 SB ZEIST Netherlands
tel: (+31)(0) 30-2673638 mobile: (+31)(0) 6 4437 8997
e-mail: e.ferguson@antenna.nl

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36225 · Kent Smith · 19 Aug 2003 14:16:59 · Top

I agree with Pat Ruggiero. The problem here is interpreting the phrase "turn by the right," perhaps another example of different dialects in different parts of the English-speaking world. In many of the older descriptions, the phrase was used to mean turn right about (pull the right shoulder back). Look at the directions for the Petronella turn at the end of hello-good bye in the _18th Century_ book, for instance. In the U.S., we tend to interpret "turn by the right" to mean "turn someone with the right hand" while I believe the phrase is less misinterpreted in the UK where many if not most would interpret "turn by the right" to mean "turn to the right."

Kent (Connecticut USA)

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Reznick [mailto:greg@reznickfamily.com]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:57 PM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: RE: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

[snip]

9-12 Set to first corner and turn by right and set to partner across
the dance.
13-16 Set to second corners and turn by right and set to partner up and
down the dance.

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36227 · Mike Briggs · 19 Aug 2003 17:03:29 · Top

In the British military, the command for a group of soldiers in a drill
formation to make a 90 deg turn to the right used to be "Right -- turn!"
I seem to remember hearing also the command "By the right -- turn!"
Can anyone verify this?

Mike
--
-----------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
-----------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
-----------------------------------------------

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36229 · Pia Walker · 19 Aug 2003 17:17:19 · Top

is one not when soldiers are moving, and the other from a standing position
? Must admit to not having a clue.

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norma or Mike Briggs" <brigglaw@execpc.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

> In the British military, the command for a group of soldiers in a drill
> formation to make a 90 deg turn to the right used to be "Right -- turn!"
> I seem to remember hearing also the command "By the right -- turn!"
> Can anyone verify this?
>
> Mike
> --
> -----------------------------------------------
> Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
> Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
> BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
> 1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
> -----------------------------------------------
> www.briggslawoffice.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36230 · Ian McHaffie · 19 Aug 2003 17:38:28 · Top

Interesting how threads can wander, Mike!

I can remember "Right – turn" – but NOT "By the right – turn". What
there was (and perhaps still is) in the British and Canadian military
was "By the right – quick march" which meant that the marchers in any
one row took their dressing / covering (i.e. stayed in line) with the
marcher at the right end of the row. Is this perhaps what you remember?

Similar to maintaining dressing / covering / partnership with the
opposite dancer in a mirror reel – to keep the thread on topic!

Ian McHaffie
mchaffie@sympatico.ca

On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 11:03 AM, Norma or Mike Briggs wrote:

> In the British military, the command for a group of soldiers in a
> drill formation to make a 90 deg turn to the right used to be "Right
> -- turn!" I seem to remember hearing also the command "By the right
> -- turn!" Can anyone verify this?
>
> Mike
> --
> -----------------------------------------------
> Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
> Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
> BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
> 1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
> -----------------------------------------------
> www.briggslawoffice.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36231 · Mike Briggs · 19 Aug 2003 18:04:52 · Top

Ian is correct. The command to turn is "right -- turn!" I'd guess that
in the early days of the SCDS everyone involved was familiar with this
and that therefore the dance instruction "turn by the right" was
unambiguous and intransitive -- turn to the right as an individual, not
turn someone else by the right hand.

Mike
--
-----------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
-----------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
-----------------------------------------------

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36234 · Ozorak · 19 Aug 2003 18:23:30 · Top

I served with the Cameron Highlanders. I only remember "By the
right....quick...march".

Etienne Ozorak
Guys Mills, PA

-----Original Message-----
From: Norma or Mike Briggs [mailto:brigglaw@execpc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:03 AM
To: strathspey@strathspey.org
Subject: Re: Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

In the British military, the command for a group of soldiers in a drill
formation to make a 90 deg turn to the right used to be "Right -- turn!"

I seem to remember hearing also the command "By the right -- turn!"
Can anyone verify this?

Mike
--
-----------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
-----------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
-----------------------------------------------

Right turn (was Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?)

Message 36255 · Norman Dahl · 20 Aug 2003 03:14:55 · Top

My recollection of very long ago is that the term "by the right" was
used with a turn where the formation pivoted about one end ("right
wheel", "right form") where the formation had to maintain its dressing
(i.e., stay in a straight line) during the turn. "By the right"
indicated which way the troops should look to do this - in other words,
who to cover (getting back on topic with some effort).

"Right about turn" or just "about turn" meant to turn right round on
the spot and go back in the direction of the other way.

Cheers
-norman-
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 01:03 Australia/Brisbane, Norma or Mike
Briggs wrote:

> In the British military, the command for a group of soldiers in a
> drill formation to make a 90 deg turn to the right used to be "Right
> -- turn!" I seem to remember hearing also the command "By the right
> -- turn!" Can anyone verify this?
>
> Mike
> --
> -----------------------------------------------
> Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
> Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
> BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
> 1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
> -----------------------------------------------
> www.briggslawoffice.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
---
Norman Dahl
Brisbane, Australia

It is never too late to be what you might have been.
-- George Eliot
---

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36251 · ron.mackey · 20 Aug 2003 00:21:54 · Top

> The problem here is interpreting the
> phrase "turn by the right," perhaps another example of different
> dialects in different parts of the English-speaking world. In many
> of the older descriptions, the phrase was used to mean turn right
> about (pull the right shoulder back).

This term was in use regularly when I started and often caused
problems. It's just as well that it was dropped or changed to
right-about.

Happy Dancing
Cheers :)
Ron

Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
39, Grove Park Road,
Mottingham
London SE9 4NS

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36339 · Herbold.Bruce · 27 Aug 2003 19:01:21 · Top

I realize this posting is a little late on the topic and all of you have
moved on to other things but....

Last spring at the Vienna Workshop I was introduced by the French
attendees to a variant on Lady Susan Stewart's Reel that I hesitate to
admit is the way my wife and I now dance LSSR and causes us to always
dance it together; i.e 1st couple petronella past each other on bars
15&16 which gives flight into the CPCP and a lovely flirt on the way
past each other. Scandalous I know, but in my defense, the latest (at
least I think it's the latest) description ends the description of bars
9-16 by saying that first couple are "turning by pulling right shoulder
back throughout." and "throughout" to my mind encompasses bars 15&16.
Now, as with Mairi's Divorce I wouldn't recommend dancing it without the
full approval and awareness of your partner and I'm not normally one to
gild the lily but getting from setting to CPCP in LSSR has always left
me unsatisfied.

At the other extreme a well-known teacher from this branch teaches LSSR
with the 1s staying in place while setting on 15&16 and then flying
across the set to turn one's first corner on 17&18. That approach I
cannot do without feeling like a hawk pouncing on its prey, but again
what two people choose to do in the privacy of the center of an SCD set
is no one's concern but theirs.

Finally, one could end the hello-goodbye setting as in in General
Stuart's Reel and turn corners in reverse order -- which is a damn sight
(or is that dam site?) more easy. Try it if you don't believe me. But
that's a different dance .... which I think goes like this:

The General Meets the Lady
32 bar Reel for 3 couples
bars
1-2 1st couple set to each other
3-4 1st man cast off while second man steps up
5-12 1s and 2s dance rights and lefts
13-16 1s turn by the right 1 1/2 times to finish facing first corners,
second lady step up on 15&16
17-24 hello and goodbye setting, 1s end in the center man facing up lady
facing down
25-32 1s turn second corner by the right, partner by the left, first
corner by the right and partner by the left to finish in
second place on own sides.

repeat from progressed places

music unspecified as yet, but strong 2 bar phrases desirable.

those are my thoughts,

Bruce Herbold
San Francisco Branch

Lady Susan Stewart's Reel?

Message 36343 · Elainerb · 28 Aug 2003 14:43:58 · Top

In a message dated 8/28/2003 2:09:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Herbold.Bruce@epamail.epa.gov writes:

> i.e 1st couple petronella past each other on bars
> 15&16 which gives flight into the CPCP and a lovely flirt on the way
> past each other. Scandalous I know, but in my defense, the latest (at

Why is it scandelous.......that's how I have always done it! (not that that
makes it right :-) )

The first time I did this dance was in California, and I danced it with Bob
Blackie. (fond memories). Neither of us had ever done the dance before, so
listened to the talk through. " Blah blah blah, Set to corners and partner
also known as Hello goodbye setting, on the last two bars advance towards your
first corner, ready for turn corner,........"

Chord..... and away we went (we were first couple so had not seen anyone else
do the dance) we both naturally continued the movement of the hello goodbye
setting as we passed each other in the middle, it was great....
As Bruce said, it lets you fly into the turns.

Of course, the set all gasped, and as we watched the rest of the set realized
we had done it differently. OH WELL! that's how I do it..... that's how I
teach it (tho' show the simple advancing as well).

SO however you get to your corners .....ENJOY IT! But if you've never tried
the turn as you advance....try it! you'll like it! ;-)

Elaine

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