strathspey Archive: Macaronic

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Macaronic

Message 35514 · Mike Briggs · 11 Jun 2003 18:09:11 · Top

Technically, of verse: containing Latin (or other foreign) words and
vernacular words with Latin or other terminations.

I think it's stretching the definition to say that "The Fete Champetre"
is macaronic. It's the title of a poem by Burns, and from the rhyming
scheme in the poem it's obvious that Burns didn't pronounce the phrase
in a French way. I'd hazard a guess that it was in fairly common use in
Burns's day. A fete used to be a common church fundraiser in England,
and the word was always pronounced "fate". Burns must have pronounced
it that way, and the second word as "shampetter," or something like that.

One could as well say that "The Rendezvous", or for that matter "The
Garage" or "The Omnibus," are macaronic, which they aren't because when
words are borrowed by English from other languages there comes a time
when they lose any semblance of foreign pronunciation and just melt into
the English vocabulary.

Mike
--
-----------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
-----------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
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Macaronic

Message 35516 · Alan Twhigg · 11 Jun 2003 19:14:46 · Top

True, I was being a bit facetious in using this term, but from Ian's question, he clearly saw the title as French words not assimilated into English (as do I, a North American, who has heard of garden fetes or "fates", but hasn't encountered any on this side of the English-speaking divide).

-Alan Twhigg.

-------Original Message-------
From: Norma or Mike Briggs <brigglaw@execpc.com>
Sent: 06/11/03 09:08 AM
To: Strathspey list <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Subject: Macaronic

>
> Technically, of verse: containing Latin (or other foreign) words and
vernacular words with Latin or other terminations.

I think it's stretching the definition to say that "The Fete Champetre"
is macaronic. It's the title of a poem by Burns, and from the rhyming
scheme in the poem it's obvious that Burns didn't pronounce the phrase
in a French way. I'd hazard a guess that it was in fairly common use in
Burns's day. A fete used to be a common church fundraiser in England,
and the word was always pronounced "fate". Burns must have pronounced
it that way, and the second word as "shampetter," or something like that.

One could as well say that "The Rendezvous", or for that matter "The
Garage" or "The Omnibus," are macaronic, which they aren't because when
words are borrowed by English from other languages there comes a time
when they lose any semblance of foreign pronunciation and just melt into
the English vocabulary.

Mike
--
-----------------------------------------------
Norma Briggs Voice 608 835 0914
Michael J Briggs Fax 608 835 0924
BRIGGS LAW OFFICE
1519 Storytown Road Oregon WI 53575-2521 USA
-----------------------------------------------
www.briggslawoffice.com
-----------------------------------------------

>

Macaronic

Message 35517 · Helen P. · 11 Jun 2003 21:31:40 · Top

More basically, "macaroni" is used to describe extravagant decoration.
Thus, macaroni penguins sport wild, brightly colored sprays of feathers on
their heads; and "tucked a feather in his hat and called it 'macaroni'" was
a derisive description of Yankee Doodle Dandy trying to look
fancily-dressed.

-- Helen (MD USA)
who previously wondered why he'd want pasta in his hat ;-)

From: "Norma or Mike Briggs" <brigglaw@execpc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 12:08 PM

> Technically, of verse: containing Latin (or other foreign) words and
> vernacular words with Latin or other terminations.
>
> I think it's stretching the definition to say that "The Fete Champetre"
> is macaronic. It's the title of a poem by Burns, and from the rhyming
> scheme in the poem it's obvious that Burns didn't pronounce the phrase
> in a French way. I'd hazard a guess that it was in fairly common use in
> Burns's day. A fete used to be a common church fundraiser in England,
> and the word was always pronounced "fate". Burns must have pronounced
> it that way, and the second word as "shampetter," or something like that.
>
> One could as well say that "The Rendezvous", or for that matter "The
> Garage" or "The Omnibus," are macaronic, which they aren't because when
> words are borrowed by English from other languages there comes a time
> when they lose any semblance of foreign pronunciation and just melt into
> the English vocabulary.
>
> Mike

Macaronic

Message 35518 · ron.mackey · 11 Jun 2003 22:25:20 · Top

Hi,
I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more extreme
Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
inches in diameter.
Anyone confirm this?

Happy Dancing
Cheers :)
Ron

Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
39, Grove Park Road,
Mottingham
London SE9 4NS

Macaronic

Message 35520 · SallenNic · 12 Jun 2003 00:43:35 · Top

In a message dated 11/6/03 8:26:07 pm, ron.mackey@mail.btinternet.com writes:

<< I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more extreme
Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
inches in diameter.
Anyone confirm this? >>

Correct. The fashion lasted only about a couple of years from 1798 to 1800,
but was pretty extreme while it lasted, with gents wigs having such a large
"queu" (macaronic? :-)) that it had to be contained in a bag. They are seen as
deriving from the "incroyables" in France just after the French Revolution.
Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland
<A HREF="http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com">http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
</A>

Macaronic

Message 35522 · Colleen Putt · 12 Jun 2003 06:15:18 · Top

As in, "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it "macaroni".....?
Cheers,
Colleen
PS ...and the penny is heard to drop!

>
> Hi,
> I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more
extreme
> Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
> be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
> faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
> wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
> inches in diameter.
> Anyone confirm this?
>
> Happy Dancing
> Cheers :)
> Ron
>
>
> Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
> 39, Grove Park Road,
> Mottingham
> London SE9 4NS
>

Macaronic

Message 35526 · Pia Walker · 12 Jun 2003 11:38:57 · Top

Funny enough - I was just singing it too. - Vision of 600 strathspeyers
sitting all over the world, going "Yankee Doodle la, la, la...."

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>; <Ron.Mackey@BTInternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Macaronic

> As in, "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it "macaroni".....?
> Cheers,
> Colleen
> PS ...and the penny is heard to drop!
>
> >
> > Hi,
> > I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more
> extreme
> > Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
> > be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
> > faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
> > wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
> > inches in diameter.
> > Anyone confirm this?
> >
> > Happy Dancing
> > Cheers :)
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
> > 39, Grove Park Road,
> > Mottingham
> > London SE9 4NS
> >
>
>
>
> This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

Macaronic

Message 35528 · Helen P. · 12 Jun 2003 12:34:54 · Top

Pia &Colleen, how did you both manage to lose or completely forget my post
that started the whole "macaroni" subthread? Seems t'me that this happened
to you on an earlier post, Pia. I hope your ISP isn't losing messages for
you.

-- Helen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen P." <leap@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 3:23 PM
>
> More basically, "macaroni" is used to describe extravagant decoration.
> Thus, macaroni penguins sport wild, brightly colored sprays of feathers on
> their heads; and "tucked a feather in his hat and called it 'macaroni'"
was
> a derisive description of Yankee Doodle Dandy trying to look
> fancily-dressed.
>
> -- Helen (MD USA)
> who previously wondered why he'd want pasta in his hat ;-)

From: <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:15 AM
>
> As in, "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it "macaroni".....?
> Cheers,
> Colleen
> PS ...and the penny is heard to drop!

From: "Pia Walker" <piawalke@nascr.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:39 AM
>
> Funny enough - I was just singing it too. - Vision of 600 strathspeyers
> sitting all over the world, going "Yankee Doodle la, la, la...."

Macaronic

Message 35530 · Pia Walker · 12 Jun 2003 13:25:33 · Top

Perhaps I'm only a "light/selective " reader :>) I'll check, however.

Ta

Pia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen P." <leap@mindspring.com>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Macaronic

> Pia &Colleen, how did you both manage to lose or completely forget my post
> that started the whole "macaroni" subthread? Seems t'me that this
happened
> to you on an earlier post, Pia. I hope your ISP isn't losing messages for
> you.
>
> -- Helen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Helen P." <leap@mindspring.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 3:23 PM
> >
> > More basically, "macaroni" is used to describe extravagant decoration.
> > Thus, macaroni penguins sport wild, brightly colored sprays of feathers
on
> > their heads; and "tucked a feather in his hat and called it 'macaroni'"
> was
> > a derisive description of Yankee Doodle Dandy trying to look
> > fancily-dressed.
> >
> > -- Helen (MD USA)
> > who previously wondered why he'd want pasta in his hat ;-)
>
>
> From: <cputt@staff.ednet.ns.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:15 AM
> >
> > As in, "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it "macaroni".....?
> > Cheers,
> > Colleen
> > PS ...and the penny is heard to drop!
>
> From: "Pia Walker" <piawalke@nascr.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:39 AM
> >
> > Funny enough - I was just singing it too. - Vision of 600 strathspeyers
> > sitting all over the world, going "Yankee Doodle la, la, la...."
>
>
> This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

Macaronic

Message 35523 · Colleen Putt · 12 Jun 2003 06:15:29 · Top

As in, "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it "macaroni".....?
Cheers,
Colleen
PS ...and the penny is heard to drop!

>
> Hi,
> I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more
extreme
> Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
> be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
> faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
> wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
> inches in diameter.
> Anyone confirm this?
>
> Happy Dancing
> Cheers :)
> Ron
>
>
> Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
> 39, Grove Park Road,
> Mottingham
> London SE9 4NS
>

Macaronic

Message 35527 · Pia Walker · 12 Jun 2003 11:39:51 · Top

Were they members of the then equivalent of RSCDS :>) :>) :>)

Pia

> >
> > Hi,
> > I believe the term Macaroni was given to some of the more
> extreme
> > Dandys in Regency London. The Italian high fashion then, as it can
> > be now, was completely OTT and involved men over-powdering their
> > faces, placing large patches on their faces, wearing extravagant
> > wigs, carrying long be-ribboned canes, and large buttons up to six
> > inches in diameter.
> > Anyone confirm this?
> >
> > Happy Dancing
> > Cheers :)
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > Ron Mackey. London Branch (and Croydon)
> > 39, Grove Park Road,
> > Mottingham
> > London SE9 4NS
> >
>
>
>
> This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

This e-mail was scanned by NASCR Antivirus.

Macaronic

Message 35547 · M.G. Mudrey, Jr. · 11 Jun 2003 22:56:31 · Top

At 11:08 AM 6/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Technically, of verse: containing Latin (or other foreign) words and
>vernacular words with Latin or other terminations.

MACARONIC
Of verse consisting of a mixture of languages.
If this sounds as though it is connected with Italian pasta, you’re right.
It was coined in the sixteenth century by the Italian poet Teofilo Folengo,
in reference to a sort of burlesque verse he invented in which Italian
words were mixed in with Latin ones for comic effect. He said that he
linked the crude hotch-potch of language in the verse with the homely
foodstuff called macaroni, a dish which he described (in Latin, of course)
as “pulmentum farina, caseo, botiro compaginatum, grossum, rude, et
rusticanum” (“a savoury dish bound together with flour, cheese [and]
butter, [a dish] which is fat, coarse, and rustic”).
The word first appeared in English a century later and expanded its scope
to refer to any form of verse in which two or more languages were mixed
together. A once-famous American example was the mixed German-English
verses of Hans Breitmann’s Ballads by Charles Leland, in which a German
immigrant is overwhelmed by mid-nineteenth-century America and speaks in a
mixture of German and heavily accented English.
Macaronic verse has a link to the eighteenth-century London dandies who
were called macaronis because they liked foreign food, Italian in
particular, as a result of experiencing it on the Grand Tour. A certain
famous old song also contains the word: “Yankee Doodle went to town, /
Riding on a pony, / Stuck a feather in his hat, / And called it macaroni”,
but that is linked to the dandy sense, not the verse one.
World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinion, 1996–2003.
All rights reserved. Contact the author for reproduction requests.
Comments and feedback are always welcome.

Encyclopedia macaroni

[ mak-uh-ROH-nee ] Legend has it that upon being served a dish of this
food, an early Italian sovereign exclaimed "Ma caroni!" meaning "how very
dear." This semolina-and-water PASTA does not traditionally contain eggs.
Most macaronis are tube-shape, but there are other forms including shells,
twists and ribbons. Among the best-known tube shapes are: elbow (a short,
curved tube); ditalini (tiny, very short tubes); mostaccioli (large,
2-inch-long tubes cut on the diagonal, with a ridged or plain surface);
penne (large, straight tubes cut on the diagonal); rigatoni (short, grooved
tubes); and ziti (long, thin tubes). Most macaronis almost double in size
during cooking. The Italian spelling of the word is maccheroni.

http://www.quinion.com/words/weirdwords/ww-wei1.htm

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