strathspey Archive: Lady Lucy Ramsay

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Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34779 · Stewart Cunningham · 3 Apr 2003 17:27:19 · Top

Can anyone tell me who Lady Lucy Ramsay was and something about her.
This is the name of a dance in the Miscellany Book 2.
Stewart

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34830 · Fiona Grant · 5 Apr 2003 09:08:47 · Top

In response to Stewart's query about the Lady named in the tune:

The tune was published by Nathaniel Gow (1763-1831), son of Neil Gow. The
tunes he published were contemporary to his time, and may have been composed
by himself, his father, or others alive at the time.

The Ramsay's were an old Scottish family settled in the Lothians (Earls of
Dalhousie) and were one of the gentry of Edinburgh at the time of Gow. I
can't find any specific reference to Lucy, but she may have been a lady of
the family prone to dancing at the time.

You could subscribe to Burke's peerage and perhaps hunt her down.

http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34834 · Fiona Grant · 6 Apr 2003 15:31:35 · Top

The conversation at the dining table yesterday revealed an interesting
hypothesis:

Around the time of Gow's publication of the tune Lady Lucy Ramsay, George
Ramsay was the 9th Earl of Dalhousie. He was Lt Governor of Nova Scotia and
Governor of Canada from 1819 to 1828 and established Dalhousie University in
Halifax, Canada.

A fine march tune titled The Earl of Dalhousie's Happy Return to Scotland is
attributed to either Nat or Neil Gow,as is the tune Lady Lucy Ramsay. Both
are popular tunes with Cape Breton fiddlers in NE Canada.

So maybe Lady Lucy was a member of his household. Perhaps his wife?

Anyone any other ideas? Anyone have access to early historical records in
Halifax, Quebec?

Fiona
Bristol
England

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34867 · Anselm Lingnau · 7 Apr 2003 20:21:32 · Top

Fiona Grant <fiona@freespiritfilms.co.uk> wrote:

> So maybe Lady Lucy was a member of his household. Perhaps his wife?

I seem to recall from earlier discussions on Strathspey, that stalwart
source of information on genteel customs and court etiquette, that if
she had been the wife she ought to have been called »Lady Ramsay«
(without the »Lucy« -- but anyway what do you call the spouse of an
earl? An earless?). »Lady Lucy Ramsay« would have been a/the daughter.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau .......................................... anselm@strathspey.org
The terrorists have won. They have successfully convinced America to attack
itself. -- Steve Kirsch, on the US »Patriot« laws

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34868 · Mike Briggs · 7 Apr 2003 20:58:08 · Top

Wife of earl = countess

Mike
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Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34871 · Fiona Grant · 7 Apr 2003 23:35:08 · Top

Could Lady Lucy have been Dalhousie's wife if his mother was still in the
land of the living?

Anyway we must be wary of the use of feudal tiles - they were used
differently in Scotland and England, and differently over the centuries.

Fiona
Bristol
England

For more info. and interesting essays see
http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-01/essay-3.html

There's an interesting exposition of the origins of Moncrieffe (the The
Hon. Peregrine Moncreiffe of Moncreiffe being one of the RSCDS honorary
presidents) through a web link at foot of the page.

Here's an excerpt from the bit on feudal titles:
THE STATUS OF FEUDAL TITLES is widely misunderstood, for the greater part
because throughout the last thousand years the meanings of the terms
associated with them have been almost as inconsistent as mediaeval spelling.
Many commonly believed to be exact were in fact used for all purposes which
at that time seemed convenient and, as with the similarly undisciplined
orthography, with no thought to the problems created for scholars and
lawyers in later centuries. In consequence, terms which need particular care
in their interpretation are: barony, lordship, manor, honour and nobility.
That care should be exercised in the knowledge that although the feudal
system was to be found throughout Western Europe from the beginning of the
second millenium, its operation did differ from region to region, those
differences led to nuances of meaning in the application of various terms,
and the use of Latin as the sole international language tended to remove in
translation some of the meaning (the broad use of dominus being a prime
example). With the passage of time there was some tendency towards greater
precision, but this could be reversed, as happened with the application of
the term "baron" within Scotland.

etc.etc.

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34876 · SallenNic · 8 Apr 2003 01:52:42 · Top

In a message dated 7/4/03 6:22:41 pm, anselm@strathspey.org writes:

<< but anyway what do you call the spouse of an

earl? An earless?). >>

The wife of an Earl is 'Countess'.

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland
<A HREF="http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com">http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
</A>

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34976 · Robin Wood · 21 Apr 2003 02:05:21 · Top

Fiona Grant wrote:

> The conversation at the dining table yesterday revealed an interesting
> hypothesis:
>
> Around the time of Gow's publication of the tune Lady Lucy Ramsay, George
> Ramsay was the 9th Earl of Dalhousie. He was Lt Governor of Nova Scotia and
> Governor of Canada from 1819 to 1828 and established Dalhousie University in
> Halifax, Canada.
>
> A fine march tune titled The Earl of Dalhousie's Happy Return to Scotland is
> attributed to either Nat or Neil Gow,as is the tune Lady Lucy Ramsay. Both
> are popular tunes with Cape Breton fiddlers in NE Canada.
>
> So maybe Lady Lucy was a member of his household. Perhaps his wife?
>
> Anyone any other ideas? Anyone have access to early historical records in
> Halifax, Quebec?
>
> Fiona
> Bristol
> England

Lady Lucy Ramsay

Message 34860 · Angus Henry · 7 Apr 2003 04:27:11 · Top

Sorry Fiona -- Nathaniel was the FATHER of Neil Gow and the son of Niel.

Cheers

Angus

>In response to Stewart's query about the Lady named in the tune:
>
>The tune was published by Nathaniel Gow (1763-1831), son of Neil Gow. The
>tunes he published were contemporary to his time, and may have been composed
>by himself, his father, or others alive at the time.

--

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