strathspey Archive: RSCDS Membership

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RSCDS Membership

Message 33005 · Ron Taylor · 13 Dec 2002 09:05:28 · Top

The Society web site now givesdetails of how individuals can submit ideas on membership to a working party` that has ben set up and I for one have submitted a simple structure which ermbraces HQ members, Branches, Affiliated Groups and coversfior people who want to joing the Society and a Branch, a Branch only or who simply just "want to dance" with no othet commitments. For the time being I shall not give further details of my proposals, other then privately for anyone who wishes to see them.

However my concern is to ask how proposals are to be treated, I assume there will be many. Does the working party submit all proposals to the Managemnet Board, or do they select a few, does the Managenent Board make a final decision or what.

In my opinion ALL ideas and proposals shoulde be made public to the worldwide membership at large and WE should then have a ballot as to which proposal to adopt, if any. That is the democtratic way to deal with things but I have a gut feeling that a small selected few will make the final decision.

What are the views of "strathspeyers"

Ron Taylor
RON29@blueyonder.co.uk

RSCDS Membership

Message 33006 · Oliver Thinius · 13 Dec 2002 09:14:52 · Top

Hear, hear!

Oliver Thinius
othinius@scottishsupplies.de

rtnw18762 schrieb am 13.12.2002:

----------<snip>-----------
In my opinion ALL ideas and proposals shoulde be made public to the
worldwide membership at large and WE should then have a ballot as to
which proposal to adopt, if any.
----------<snip>-----------

RSCDS Membership

Message 33009 · Pia Walker · 13 Dec 2002 10:11:44 · Top

I think we have spent an awful lot of time - selecting those selected few -
so I for one would like them to get on with it.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: rtnw18762 <RON29@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:55 AM
Subject: RSCDS Membership

The Society web site now givesdetails of how individuals can submit ideas on
membership to a working party` that has ben set up and I for one have
submitted a simple structure which ermbraces HQ members, Branches,
Affiliated Groups and coversfior people who want to joing the Society and a
Branch, a Branch only or who simply just "want to dance" with no othet
commitments. For the time being I shall not give further details of my
proposals, other then privately for anyone who wishes to see them.

However my concern is to ask how proposals are to be treated, I assume there
will be many. Does the working party submit all proposals to the Managemnet
Board, or do they select a few, does the Managenent Board make a final
decision or what.

In my opinion ALL ideas and proposals shoulde be made public to the
worldwide membership at large and WE should then have a ballot as to which
proposal to adopt, if any. That is the democtratic way to deal with things
but I have a gut feeling that a small selected few will make the final
decision.

What are the views of "strathspeyers"

Ron Taylor
RON29@blueyonder.co.uk

RSCDS Membership

Message 33045 · William & Shellagh Whyte · 15 Dec 2002 16:20:40 · Top

Indeed Pia, but remember that one-third of those elected demit automatically
each year, so the Branches have to vote at the time of each AGM for a third
of the members of the MB (and the three committees). So the electorate,
currently Branches, cannot sit back and relax. There is the opportunity to
recycle the "selected few", or throw the b*** out (as someone said) but this
means that Branches have to seriously look at their decision-making process,
since under the current constitution it will be an annual routine.

However what I do not comprehend (yet) is how Branches can exercise their
responsibilities in an informed manner when a lot of the work is done behind
the scenes. If we have a continuation of the "no canvassing" dictum, then
how does the electorate have the information necessary to make informed
choices..... difficult for UK branches, impossible for those overseas.

William

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pia Walker" <piawalke@nascr.net>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>; "rtnw18762" <RON29@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 10:17
Subject: Re: RSCDS Membership

I think we have spent an awful lot of time - selecting those selected few -
so I for one would like them to get on with it.

Pia

----- Original Message -----
From: rtnw18762 <RON29@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:55 AM
Subject: RSCDS Membership

The Society web site now givesdetails of how individuals can submit ideas on
membership to a working party` that has ben set up and I for one have
submitted a simple structure which ermbraces HQ members, Branches,
Affiliated Groups and coversfior people who want to joing the Society and a
Branch, a Branch only or who simply just "want to dance" with no othet
commitments. For the time being I shall not give further details of my
proposals, other then privately for anyone who wishes to see them.

However my concern is to ask how proposals are to be treated, I assume there
will be many. Does the working party submit all proposals to the Managemnet
Board, or do they select a few, does the Managenent Board make a final
decision or what.

In my opinion ALL ideas and proposals shoulde be made public to the
worldwide membership at large and WE should then have a ballot as to which
proposal to adopt, if any. That is the democtratic way to deal with things
but I have a gut feeling that a small selected few will make the final
decision.

What are the views of "strathspeyers"

Ron Taylor
RON29@blueyonder.co.uk

RSCDS Membership

Message 33076 · alan mair · 16 Dec 2002 21:52:59 · Top

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Whyte" <wlwhyte@attglobal.net>

>If we have a continuation of the "no canvassing" dictum, then
> how does the electorate have the information necessary to make informed
> choices

I am disappointed to learn that William thinks that the General Purposes
Committee were in the business of issuing dicta. I hope he has no intention
of doing so now that he has become a member of GP and Finance!!

My posting to "strathspey" on 30/9/02 explained why the GP committee decided
to make their views known through the Branch network and further explained
that these views related to unnecessary and over-zealous canvassing before
nominations had closed.

I did "count to ten" before making this response in view of Anselm's well
balanced dictum on Sunday. I believe this matter is no longer topical since
the elections are now over and also, because not all 400+ readers of this
list are RSCDS members, Society politics are (IMHO) local politics even if
not in a purely geographical sense.

With best wishes to William and the rest of the GP and Finance committee
and seasonal greetings to all on the list.

Alan
RSCDS (St Andrews)

RSCDS Membership

Message 33020 · mlbrown · 13 Dec 2002 17:49:38 · Top

Ron wrote:

> However my concern is to ask how proposals are to be treated,
> I assume there will be many. Does the working party submit
> all proposals to the Managemnet Board, or do they select a
> few, does the Managenent Board make a final decision or what.
>
> In my opinion ALL ideas and proposals shoulde be made public
> to the worldwide membership at large and WE should then have
> a ballot as to which proposal to adopt, if any. That is the
> democtratic way to deal with things but I have a gut feeling
> that a small selected few will make the final decision.
>
> What are the views of "strathspeyers"

We obviously have different ideas about democracy.
In the UK we have elections to select members of parliament, and then these
representatives make the decisions (laws)

In the US I believe they have a somewhat similar system.

What "democracies" do not do is hold referendums on every subject.

When it comes to the subject of RSCDS membership, we also have the problem
of who would vote and how?
Only people who are on Strathspey? Only RSCDS members? (What about the
non-society dancers? What about those dancers who are under 16? )

Do we insist on everyone casting their vote, (as I believe is the case in
some political elections), or can people abstain, (as huge numbers now do in
our national elections)?

Do we use some complicated "transferable voting "system to decide among all
the various suggestions, or do we use a "first past the post system" based
on one vote per person?

One of the problems that was recognised with the old structure of the RSCDS
was that change took a very long time - we have changed the structure so
that we can move more quickly. I might be wrong, but your suggestion would
seem to lengthen the process.

In answer to your question about how are the proposals going to be treated,
the honest answer is I suspect that no-one knows, since the process is just
starting. The Management Board has set up a working group to look at the
subject. The Society sent the information out to Branch secretaries
requesting ideas, (i.e. it used the traditional route). It has put the
notice up on the web site, requesting ideas (a new way of working). It is
now 4 weeks since the first meeting of the Management Board.

One of the benefits of a working group is that it is small and can consider
suggestions at length and in detail. I would imagine they will then make
some sort of presentation to the M.B., possibly with recommendations. One of
the problems with the previous proposal to change the membership structure
(the famous "Two tier approach") was that no-one would put any numbers to
it, or forecast any possible financial implications, and I believe it was
this uncertainty which persuaded a majority, ( just)) to stay with the
current system. I would hope that the financial implications would form part
of the presentation.

The MB will then presumably discuss the presentation and recommendations and
hopefully at some point a consensus will emerge that can be taken to the
Society AGM as a proposal. (The Constitution defines "membership", and to
make any changes would require a change to the Constitution, which can only
happen at a Society General Meeting, and then only with the approval of at
least two thirds of those entitled to vote.) I don't think that this means
that "a small selected few will make the final decision"

Malcolm


Malcolm & Helen Brown
York (UK)

RSCDS Membership

Message 33024 · Fran Smith · 13 Dec 2002 22:26:06 · Top

Pia wrote:

"I think we have spent an awful lot of time - selecting those
selected few - so I for one would like them to get on with it."

I'd like to second her sentiment.
Seems to me we now have an identifiable group of people with whom
those who have thoughts and ideas can communicate fairly easily.
Not only are the members identifiable but for each person/group
their area of interest/responsibility is also known. If you have
a concern/idea/complaint contact the relevant person(s) and make
it known.
If you're not happy with the way things are going ahead why aren't
YOU on one of the committees taking the flak?

Fran(Herefordshire RSCDS)

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RSCDS Membership

Message 33027 · Rebecca Sager · 14 Dec 2002 01:49:43 · Top

Nitpickers might want to point out that what we have in the U.S. of A. is
not a democracy but a republic?
In ancient Greece the citizens got together in the marketplace to decide
the course of events, or so we read. Nowadays, in a country of getting on
for 300 million the elected representatives pretty much have a free hand
once they're in, but if we don't like the results we're supposed to vote
the bums out.

Becky

Becky Sager
Marietta GA USA

> We obviously have different ideas about democracy.
> In the UK we have elections to select members of parliament, and
> then these
> representatives make the decisions (laws)
>
> In the US I believe they have a somewhat similar system.
>
> What "democracies" do not do is hold referendums on every subject.

Re:Democracy (was RSCDS Membership)

Message 33028 · hways · 14 Dec 2002 04:31:05 · Top

Those hands are not really all that free when the palms are liberally
greased by special interests.

Harry
Washington D. C. (where it all happens)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Sager" <bsager3@juno.com>
. Nowadays, in a country of getting on
> for 300 million the elected representatives pretty much have a free hand
> once they're in, but if we don't like the results we're supposed to vote
> the bums out.
>
> Becky
>
> Becky Sager
> Marietta GA USA
>
> > We obviously have different ideas about democracy.
> > In the UK we have elections to select members of parliament, and
> > then these
> > representatives make the decisions (laws)
> >
> > In the US I believe they have a somewhat similar system.
> >
> > What "democracies" do not do is hold referendums on every subject.

RSCDS Membership

Message 33047 · Ian Thomson · 14 Dec 2002 02:12:11 · Top

Yes, but what percentage of your 300million population actually go out and
vote?
Here in Australia, voting is compulsory, so we really do get the
governments we deserve!
The trouble is, we have to wait so long before we can vote them out.

Ian
At 07:53 13/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Nitpickers might want to point out that what we have in the U.S. of A. is
>not a democracy but a republic?
>In ancient Greece the citizens got together in the marketplace to decide
>the course of events, or so we read. Nowadays, in a country of getting on
>for 300 million the elected representatives pretty much have a free hand
>once they're in, but if we don't like the results we're supposed to vote
>the bums out.
>
>Becky
>
>Becky Sager
>Marietta GA USA
>
> > We obviously have different ideas about democracy.
> > In the UK we have elections to select members of parliament, and
> > then these
> > representatives make the decisions (laws)
> >
> > In the US I believe they have a somewhat similar system.
> >
> > What "democracies" do not do is hold referendums on every subject.

RSCDS Membership

Message 33033 · Oliver Thinius · 14 Dec 2002 14:04:11 · Top

I believe what Ron meant with the "small selected few" is the common
effect, that "a small few" - those who make the proposals to the AGM
- decide on the basis of the input from wherever what to present to
the General Meeting. Luckily some General Meetings have taken a long
time because proposals have been discussed and eventually rejected or
amended.

I fear hat I believe Ron fears: that "a small few" will stick to
their own ideas (maybe prejudices and superstitions) nevertheless
what the input to their discussions is, thus excluding the input that
will be screened by the working party and putting their stamp on
proposals to the AGM.

However, I trust that the smaller management structure will enable
the working parties to discuss input from members effectively and
present multiple options to the management board, which then can
discuss the merits of those options, presenting the most sensible
ones to the General Meeting.

I also agree with Malcolm in the point that the new management
structure is NEW and has to show wether it works or not. Let's wait
for the results.

Oliver Thinius
othinius@scottishsupplies.de

mlbrown wrote on 13.12.2002:

----------<snip>-----------
The MB will then presumably discuss the presentation and
recommendations and hopefully at some point a consensus will emerge
that can be taken to the Society AGM as a proposal. (The Constitution
defines "membership", and to make any changes would require a change
to the Constitution, which can only happen at a Society General
Meeting, and then only with the approval of at least two thirds of
those entitled to vote.) I don't think that this means that "a small
selected few will make the final decision"
----------<snip>-----------

newspaper article (not dancing)

Message 33060 · Martin.Sheffield · 16 Dec 2002 11:43:08 · Top

Some of the N Americans might be interested in an article about the first
Scots to colonize --involuntarily -- the new colonies. And how they helped
kick out the English!

From "the Scotsman" newspaper.
http://www.heritage.scotsman.com/cfm/heritagenews/headlines_specific.cfm?articleid=S00021683

Martin

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