strathspey Archive: "Positive change"

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"Positive change"

Message 2944 · Sandra Rosenau · 1 Nov 1995 22:13:24 · Top

When people call about coming to class, I usually give them a rundown
on where/when but also I mention dress and shoes so they have a
chance to come prepared with adequate footwear and appropriate
dress on their first night.

Our teachers frequently mention in class that the tradition is skirts or
dresses for the women, and kilts for the men. Other than that, we don't
make an issue of it. Particularly in the summer, almost everyone wears
shorts because it's so hot. I don't think it's anybody's business to
"speak to" anyone about their attire. How rude. Do you want to drive
people away? That's a fine way to do it. I well remember my first days
when a teacher kept badgering me to get proper footwear to the point I
was embarrassed and spent hours and evenings looking for adequate
shoes and couldn't find any. New dancers don't need negative
comments; they need positive role models and to know what the
expectation is, along with acceptance of whatever they show up in.
They'll meet the expectation when they are ready.

"Positive change"

Message 2947 · briscoe · 2 Nov 1995 02:21:52 · Top

What you wear affects how you dance. I've seen men whose dancing improved
when they got their first kilt, because it felt so different. I think my
handing improves on those rare times when I wear long white gloves
partly because I feel elegant, but mostly I'm incredibly aware of where my
hands ARE!! Maybe I should put long white gloves on my feet...

ellie briscoe
briscoe@access.digex.net
Alexandria VA usa

"Positive change"

Message 2948 · ERBRUNKEN · 2 Nov 1995 02:52:55 · Top

Now that's what I call a teaching aide!!!!! Recently, For the first time
in my life.... I danced in jeans. At ATlanta's Stone mOuntain games, a spur
of the moment set formed up and danced to Alastair Fraser. A real
hardship!!!!!!!! So in sneakers and jeans, it just didn't feel 'right'. No
swirling skirt, and feeling elegant or graceful. I certainly would welcome
anyone to dancing reagrdless of garb. BUT, I think it feels better, in a
skirt (I can only speak as a woman). But, I know it LOOKS better in a kilt!

E

"Positive change"

Message 2950 · Anselm Lingnau · 2 Nov 1995 09:34:20 · Top

Ellie Briscoe <briscoe@access.digex.net> writes:

> Maybe I should put long white gloves on my feet...

It helps a lot. We men do it all the time. They're called `hose'. :^)

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lingnau@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
The higher the buildings, the lower the morals. --- Noel Coward

"Positive change"

Message 2953 · Iain E. Garden Richardson · 2 Nov 1995 10:51:44 · Top

On the subject of dress, there seem to be two areas being
(ad)dressed: what to wear to classes and what to wear at a
demonstration.

I found some of the comments about dress codes in classes positively
worrying ! If you go to any of the University groups in Scotland (and
these are perhaps one model of how SCD can become popular among
younger people) you will see a wide variety of dress, from kilts to
leggings and flares. I don't think a dress code at class helps in any
way to encourage new people to take up SCD.Comfortable clothing is
obviously a good idea, but that's as far as I would go.

I've seen many different demonstration costumes for SCD. Many
groups use a range of costumes: e.g. a skirt/blouse (and perhaps
waistcoat) combination for informal or outdoor demonstrations and
long white dresses for formal demonstrations (I'm talking about the
ladies here). Dunedin dancers in Edinburgh have a very interesting
alternative costume for formal dems. which is based on a traditional
Scottish dress.(If anyone is interested, I can send them a text
description.) There certainly isn't a global "standard" ladies
demonstration costume, or even a standard mens' costume. My opinion
is that we should encourage this diversity.

Iain.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Iain E. Garden Richardson
Lecturer
School of Electronic and Electrical Engineering
The Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, Scotland, AB9 1FR
Telephone 01224 262428 Facsimile 01224 262444
Email i.g.richardson@rgu.ac.uk
World Wide Web http://www.eee.rgu.ac.uk/Comms
-------------------------------------------------------------------

"Positive change"

Message 2955 · George Brian Mackintosh · 2 Nov 1995 12:25:08 · Top

> But, I know it LOOKS better in a kilt!

I think it feels better in a kilt, long trouser legs are a pain.
Although we once did a demonstration of The Yellow Haired Laddie
in white tights with mid-thigh length broccade tops (I am talking
about the men here!) and that was OK because they don't flop
about and bind on the knees unexpectedly. People might talk
though if I wore that all the time. I agree with Ellie Briscoe,
I am sure my posture is better when I am wearing full dress with
a Prince Charlie jacket and I have one pair of really good
ghillies which I keep for those occasions, but my toes still
turned up even with the white tights (gloves on the feet might
not work).
At a ball, many if not most of our ladies wear non-white dresses,
even some of those who wear a sash. It has gradually changed from
white over the years I think. At dances and classes it
seems to be mostly skirts and blouses -- from choice I think, if
I am wrong someone will tell us I am sure ;-) -- with a few
divided skirts and very occasionally trousers. Actually (and here
I expect to get thoroughly thumped next Monday) the sloppiest place
I can think of to dance, particularly for men, is a demonstration
team practice (I mean clotheswise). Perhaps it is because a
performance goes to the opposite extreme.
I am curious Colleen, do Sydney men wear Prince Charlie jackets or
velvet doublets **and keep them on**, and do you ladies wait
demurely or otherwise to be asked to dance? Here the jackets seem
to come off by about the third dance (alright, my peeves are men
who unbutton a doublet and wear it with the two front pieces
flapping and men who untie a bow tie and wear it with the two
ends hanging down in front like a couple of dead fish) and
picking partners is mostly a free for all.
Here, by the way, is Ottawa, Canada plus or minus say 500 miles
east or west.
But this is not the can of worms I was looking in at all. I was
thinking about standards of technique and dance construction and
so I will start a new thread, lets call it "Preserving a
Standard."
- Brian

--
(George) Brian Mackintosh Email: ay026@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
60 Cymbeline Drive, Tel: (613) 829-9932
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K2H 7Y1

Attire

Message 2962 · Andrew J. Smith · 2 Nov 1995 16:25:17 · Top

It took my class a while to work it out, but finally they realized that
those wearing white socks or hose were getting much more correction of
thier footwork than those who were not. White socks act like a magent for
the eyes, and are *very* revealing.

I do love the image of Ellie with long white gloves on her feet...

*******************************************************************************
Message from:
Andrew J. M. Smith
mstajsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
*******************************************************************************

On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Mel and Ellie Briscoe wrote:

> What you wear affects how you dance. I've seen men whose dancing improved
> when they got their first kilt, because it felt so different. I think my
> handing improves on those rare times when I wear long white gloves
> partly because I feel elegant, but mostly I'm incredibly aware of where my
> hands ARE!! Maybe I should put long white gloves on my feet...
>
> ellie briscoe
> briscoe@access.digex.net
> Alexandria VA usa
>

Attire

Message 2963 · Norman Dahl · 2 Nov 1995 19:14:21 · Top

What you wear depends on what you're doing and who you do it with - there
is a strong social pressure (generally unspoken, and so it should be) to
fit in with the company you keep. After that, everyone should have as much
freedom as possible. As a dancer, I love to wear my kilt - it feels great
to dance in, and I haven't had it long, and I want to wear it out before I
go. As a teacher of beginners, I don't care what they wear, as long as they
listen. And for a grand occasion, I love dressing up.

My wife, Jo, points out that our group, like many others, has more ladies
than gentlemen. Therefore, a lady wearing trousers has a pretty good chance
of being correctly attired!

-norman dahl-

Attire

Message 2965 · Mulligan,Martin;Biochem;s3023a · 2 Nov 1995 20:40:39 · Top

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Norman Dahl wrote:

> My wife, Jo, points out that our group, like many others, has more ladies
> than gentlemen. Therefore, a lady wearing trousers has a pretty good chance
> of being correctly attired!
>

I've occassionally wondered whether ladies wearing trousers (or similar)
are more apt to be assigned to dancing on the men's side in those
circumstances where two women are partners? In other words, when I ask
dancers(2 ladies) to take a partner when I'm teaching there is usually a
momentary pause while they negotiate sides. Does attire affect the
decision in any way? I don't know - I've never tried to do any kind of
survey - has any one else?

Martin Mulligan
St. John's (Newfoundland) Branch
mulligan@morgan.ucs.mun.ca

Attire

Message 2967 · Joe Shelby · 2 Nov 1995 21:00:15 · Top

> I've occassionally wondered whether ladies wearing trousers (or similar)
> are more apt to be assigned to dancing on the men's side in those
> circumstances where two women are partners? In other words, when I ask
> dancers(2 ladies) to take a partner when I'm teaching there is usually a
> momentary pause while they negotiate sides. Does attire affect the
> decision in any way? I don't know - I've never tried to do any kind of
> survey - has any one else?

don't know...last night, one of our dancers in NoVa had a button saying
"I'm dancing as a MAN" ("MAN" in big letters in the center), and they would
pass that button around as female dancers danced the men's side ;)

i've only danced in a (borrowed) modern kilt once, but i often dance in a
philemor (great kilt) made from 5yds of cotton-flanel...much cheaper than
the wool for my budget right now ($30 is much easier than $400 for the
modern wool kilts). it works quite nicely and i've gotten a number of
compliments for the past few months...i hand-pleat it each time i wear
it (it only takes me about 5 minutes now that i've gotten enough
practice).

yes, dancing in a kilt did change my style a bit (both posture, and in
making turns more "exact" to get the appropriate "flip" out of it...
Robertson's Rant, e.g.), but not as dramatically as dancing in ghillies for
the first time last year (in fact, exactly a year ago this week)...

i did notice when i first wore a kilt that my turnout did start to improve.
i'd never realized how restrictive the "tug" of trews on the knees was
until it wasn't there...

(as for changing shirts during a dance...at the Delaware Valley Hogmany (30+
dances, 9pm to 3am) its almost a necessity!)

joe
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Joseph Shelby : Software Engineer jshelby@autometric.com
5301 Shawnee Rd. Alexandria, VA 22312-2333 (703) 658-4071

I'm not sure who he is, but I've heard he's got his hand in a lot of things.
--Kermit, about Jim Henson
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Attire

Message 2969 · Coletta Hill · 2 Nov 1995 21:54:03 · Top

Reply to: RE>>Attire

>I've occassionally wondered whether ladies wearing trousers (or similar)
are more apt to be assigned to dancing on the men's side in those
circumstances where two women are partners? In other words, when I ask
dancers(2 ladies) to take a partner when I'm teaching there is usually a
momentary pause while they negotiate sides. Does attire affect the
decision in any way? I don't know - I've never tried to do any kind of
survey - has any one else?

Martin Mulligan<

Attire is usually very low on the list when I negotiate with another woman as
to which side we dance on.
First- is who would have less trouble swapping sides
If that doesn't make the decision the tie breakers are;
Who asked whom, and
Who is taller? (especially if there is an allemande in the dance)
Has one been dancing on the man's side all evening? Then she should dance on
the ladies side.

Attire

Message 2978 · Richard L. Walker · 3 Nov 1995 04:10:51 · Top

>Does attire affect the decision in any way?

Long term? Of course. When a woman responds answers my request for a dance
with "But I've always danced as a man ... " I place her where she is
comfortable, I get on the other side and off we go. Lots of smiles -- lots
of fun.

On the other topic ...
I'll bet that any group having the luxury of worrying about dress, doesn't
also worry about whether six to eight dancers will show up for a class each
week. One writer said:
>I've been glad to see any dancers, no matter what they wear! or even if
they wear!

Nah. I'm not touching that one.
Richard L. Walker
rlwalker@cheney.net <-- home (play)
richard.l.walker@gulf.com <-- work
Pensacola, FL USA -- City of Five Flags

Attire

Message 2987 · Ian Price · 4 Nov 1995 22:54:09 · Top

I just had another look at the tape of my 256-some reel back in 1988.

I recall discussing the question of attire for the big day, with Mary Murray and
George Will who did the 'teaching' part of the project. Because of the great
number of people in the set, I was prepared to be quite flexible on dress as I
felt it would have been onerous on people to all find something identical to
wear. Mary was however adamant, and we therefore prescribed the following:-

Men: Kilt, Prince Charlie and the Trimmings
Ladies: Long white dress, tartan sash
Ladies dancing as Men: Knee-length tartan skirt, white blouse, Black Jacket.

Everyone complied, with enthusiasm I might add.

Viewing the tape, I now see the absolute power of the visual image. The event
started with a "Grand March" down the steps of the University Convocation Mall
behind the SFU Pipe Band, in a phalanx of 4 couples across, 32 lines deep. A
head-on shot of 32 lines all lined up black-white-black-white etc. whilst
marching down a long wide flight of steps is a VERY exciting image. Later,
during the dance, it was very handy knowing which ladies were dancing as men, as
there wasn't much time to figure out which of the dozon or so people in one's
immediate vicinity one should be turning/reeling/setting to/with next.

Unequivocally, Mary was right to insist, and I was wrong (something I hardly
ever admit).

Regards, Ian

PS. somewhere back in this thread, a non-preference for shorts (without a kilt)
was expressed. I presume the corollary is similarly discouraged, if only for
reasons of structural restraint of the ballroom <grin>.

Attire

Message 2988 · Ian Price · 4 Nov 1995 22:54:21 · Top

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Norman Dahl wrote:

> My wife, Jo, points out that our group, like many others, has more ladies
> than gentlemen. Therefore, a lady wearing trousers has a pretty good chance
> of being correctly attired!
>

I've always wondered how the situation described would affect washroom usage in
ballrooms employing pictogram silhouettes on the doors to the cludgies :-)

Attire

Message 2992 · Lisa N. Masterman · 5 Nov 1995 19:11:07 · Top

> don't know...last night, one of our dancers in NoVa had a button saying
> "I'm dancing as a MAN" ("MAN" in big letters in the center), and they would
> pass that button around as female dancers danced the men's side ;)

*rank beginner de-lurks for a second*

My first ever dance experience was at my friend's class' social, where
there was a box of ribbon sashes they referred to as "sex symbols."
Women dancing as men would go fetch one and put it on, both helping
*them* to remember what role they were playing and helping the *rest*
of the set to remember. I thought it was a great idea.

*re-lurks*

--lisa

o , Lisa Masterman ~ A woman's place is
_,/\/u\ masterma@cis.udel.edu ~ in the Captain's
/(, >,) (alum) 95lnm@cs.williams.edu ~ chair.
' << ' >\ http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~masterma ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Associate, Star Fleet Ladies' Auxiliary and Embroidery / Baking Society

Attire

Message 2998 · Andrew J. Smith · 6 Nov 1995 16:56:45 · Top

We too use ribbon sashes which are termed "gender benders". We have often
used them to change gender of both males and females. (There was this one
period of about six months where the guys were out in force and the women
were out doing other things....)

It works really well, especially for dances where everyone ends up on the
opposite side at one point, or in things like crossover reels. People,
including newcomers, seem to adapt very quickly.

*******************************************************************************
Message from:
Andrew J. M. Smith
mstajsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
*******************************************************************************

On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Lisa N. Masterman wrote:

>
> My first ever dance experience was at my friend's class' social, where
> there was a box of ribbon sashes they referred to as "sex symbols."
> Women dancing as men would go fetch one and put it on, both helping
> *them* to remember what role they were playing and helping the *rest*
> of the set to remember. I thought it was a great idea.
>
> *re-lurks*
>
> --lisa
>
> o , Lisa Masterman ~ A woman's place is
> _,/\/u\ masterma@cis.udel.edu ~ in the Captain's
> /(, >,) (alum) 95lnm@cs.williams.edu ~ chair.
> ' << ' >\ http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~masterma ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Associate, Star Fleet Ladies' Auxiliary and Embroidery / Baking Society
>

Attire

Message 3007 · Colleen Putt · 6 Nov 1995 22:32:31 · Top

>> don't know...last night, one of our dancers in NoVa had a button saying
>> "I'm dancing as a MAN" ("MAN" in big letters in the center), and they would
>> pass that button around as female dancers danced the men's side ;)
>
>*rank beginner de-lurks for a second*
>
>My first ever dance experience was at my friend's class' social, where
>there was a box of ribbon sashes they referred to as "sex symbols."
>Women dancing as men would go fetch one and put it on, both helping
>*them* to remember what role they were playing and helping the *rest*
>of the set to remember. I thought it was a great idea.
>
>*re-lurks*
>
>--lisa
>
> o , Lisa Masterman ~ A woman's place is
> _,/\/u\ masterma@cis.udel.edu ~ in the Captain's
> /(, >,) (alum) 95lnm@cs.williams.edu ~ chair.
>' << ' >\ http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~masterma ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Associate, Star Fleet Ladies' Auxiliary and Embroidery / Baking Society
>
>
>

Attire

Message 3008 · Colleen Putt · 6 Nov 1995 22:33:22 · Top

>My first ever dance experience was at my friend's class' social, where
>there was a box of ribbon sashes they referred to as "sex symbols."
>Women dancing as men would go fetch one and put it on, both helping
>*them* to remember what role they were playing and helping the *rest*
>of the set to remember. I thought it was a great idea.
>
In our group these sashes are referred to as "man-things", as in "Don't
forget to put on/take off your man-thing!" As might be expected, this can
lead to some jocularity and hilarity, especially one night when one of them
fell off!

Colleen Putt,
Halifax, NS

Attire

Message 2970 · Alex Tweedly · 2 Nov 1995 22:07:53 · Top

> On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Norman Dahl wrote:
>
> > My wife, Jo, points out that our group, like many others, has more ladies
> > than gentlemen. Therefore, a lady wearing trousers has a pretty good chance
> > of being correctly attired!
> >
>
> I've occassionally wondered whether ladies wearing trousers (or similar)
> are more apt to be assigned to dancing on the men's side in those
> circumstances where two women are partners? In other words, when I ask
> dancers(2 ladies) to take a partner when I'm teaching there is usually a
> momentary pause while they negotiate sides. Does attire affect the
> decision in any way? I don't know - I've never tried to do any kind of
> survey - has any one else?

A class I used to dance in sometimes had a majority of men.
Those wearing kilts were more likely to dance the ladies' part -
almost like wearing a skirt :-)

-- Alex.

Attire

Message 2971 · Coletta Hill · 2 Nov 1995 23:09:52 · Top

Reply to: RE>>Attire

>A class I used to dance in sometimes had a majority of men.
>Those wearing kilts were more likely to dance the ladies' part -
>almost like wearing a skirt :-)

>-- Alex.

NO, NO Alex! The reason the man in the kilt dances on the lady's side is
because Everyone knows that men who wear kilts are better dancers!!
Only the better dancers CAN dance on the opposite side! ;-)

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