strathspey Archive: Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

Previous thread: Strathspey Program(me)? and Demo Moments????
Next thread: various comments

Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

Message 28325 · Alex Collins · 23 Nov 2001 04:58:07 · Top

The demise of George S Emmerson has been recently noted,
and his dance Sauchie Haugh has appeared several times
on subscribers' lists of their favourite strathspeys.

In many previous contributions to this Strathspey e-mail
list subscribers have expressed their interest (sometimes
very strongly!) in dancing in conformance with the dance
deviser's intentions.

Through my acquaintance with George and my dancing
experiences in London Ontario Canada where George lived
and taught (both SCDancing and mechanical engineering at
the University of Western Ontario) I learned that George's
original submission to the RSCDS for Sauchie Haugh was
different from that which was published and routinely
danced outside the London area. Dancers from away who are
especially keen on dancing in accordance with a deviser's
intent might not be aware that the RSCDS, as I understand
the situation, did not include George's intent in their
publication, No 12 in the Leaflet Book (which incidentally
includes No 16 Miss Catherine Allan, George's widow, with
interesting footnote).

In the leaflet for Sauchie Haugh:
"Bars 9-16 1st and 2nd couples Rondel."
In the RSCDS "Manual" for the Rondel:
"Bar 8 Both couples dance out to own side, having changed
places." The standard execution of this manoeuvre seems to
involve (I'm not an SCD teacher!) dancing directly into
place, as noted ...
In TACNotes:
"Cpls dance short way into place on bar 16".

However, in George's choreography all four dancers were
to cast into place during bar 16. The flow is then
much smoother for the next bars which begin with
"... advance one step ...".

George left me with the impression that at the time of
publication of Sauchie Haugh the RSCDS was preferring
conformance with a standard. However, in recent times it
appears to me that devisers' variations have been more
acceptable and were Sauchie Haugh to be offered for
publication today George's casting treatment would have
prevailed.

In the few years that I knew George I was impressed with
his devotion to the aesthetics of the dance as well as to
his enthusiasm for Scottish heritage. I think of him when
I am enjoying Sauchie Haugh and casting into the beginning
of bar 17! And I'm not alone as there are many other
dancers in the area, including some SCD teachers, who know
this story and respect George's choreography.

--- Alex
R A Collins, Toronto, Canada
PS -- Regrettable length. Didn't G B Shaw have something
to say about length of letter and time available to
write it?

Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

Message 28338 · Andrew Smith · 23 Nov 2001 19:07:09 · Top

Re the PS:
I understood that it was part of Parkinson's "Law", that "the work expands
to fill the time available", but maybe he had cribbed from GBS?
Andrew.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Collins" <rac@ecf.utoronto.ca>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 3:58 AM
Subject: Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

> The demise of George S Emmerson has been recently noted,
> and his dance Sauchie Haugh has appeared several times
> on subscribers' lists of their favourite strathspeys.
>
> In many previous contributions to this Strathspey e-mail
> list subscribers have expressed their interest (sometimes
> very strongly!) in dancing in conformance with the dance
> deviser's intentions.
>
> Through my acquaintance with George and my dancing
> experiences in London Ontario Canada where George lived
> and taught (both SCDancing and mechanical engineering at
> the University of Western Ontario) I learned that George's
> original submission to the RSCDS for Sauchie Haugh was
> different from that which was published and routinely
> danced outside the London area. Dancers from away who are
> especially keen on dancing in accordance with a deviser's
> intent might not be aware that the RSCDS, as I understand
> the situation, did not include George's intent in their
> publication, No 12 in the Leaflet Book (which incidentally
> includes No 16 Miss Catherine Allan, George's widow, with
> interesting footnote).
>
> In the leaflet for Sauchie Haugh:
> "Bars 9-16 1st and 2nd couples Rondel."
> In the RSCDS "Manual" for the Rondel:
> "Bar 8 Both couples dance out to own side, having changed
> places." The standard execution of this manoeuvre seems to
> involve (I'm not an SCD teacher!) dancing directly into
> place, as noted ...
> In TACNotes:
> "Cpls dance short way into place on bar 16".
>
> However, in George's choreography all four dancers were
> to cast into place during bar 16. The flow is then
> much smoother for the next bars which begin with
> "... advance one step ...".
>
> George left me with the impression that at the time of
> publication of Sauchie Haugh the RSCDS was preferring
> conformance with a standard. However, in recent times it
> appears to me that devisers' variations have been more
> acceptable and were Sauchie Haugh to be offered for
> publication today George's casting treatment would have
> prevailed.
>
> In the few years that I knew George I was impressed with
> his devotion to the aesthetics of the dance as well as to
> his enthusiasm for Scottish heritage. I think of him when
> I am enjoying Sauchie Haugh and casting into the beginning
> of bar 17! And I'm not alone as there are many other
> dancers in the area, including some SCD teachers, who know
> this story and respect George's choreography.
>
> --- Alex
> R A Collins, Toronto, Canada
> PS -- Regrettable length. Didn't G B Shaw have something
> to say about length of letter and time available to
> write it?
>
>

Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

Message 28355 · hways · 24 Nov 2001 23:15:38 · Top

I also much prefer to dance the rondel as Alex has described, and perhaps
learned it that way from George, thought I cannot be sure.
However, in " A Centennial Collection" (dances submitted for a competition
to select a Scottish Country Dance to commemorate Canada's Centennial in
1967), where I believe it was published for the first time, George's
instructions state "all dance out to the sides, having changed places". No
mention of casting to place.

Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Collins" <rac@ecf.utoronto.ca>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 1:58 AM
Subject: Emmerson & Sauchie Haugh (1967)

> The demise of George S Emmerson has been recently noted,
> and his dance Sauchie Haugh has appeared several times
> on subscribers' lists of their favourite strathspeys.
>
> In many previous contributions to this Strathspey e-mail
> list subscribers have expressed their interest (sometimes
> very strongly!) in dancing in conformance with the dance
> deviser's intentions.
>
> Through my acquaintance with George and my dancing
> experiences in London Ontario Canada where George lived
> and taught (both SCDancing and mechanical engineering at
> the University of Western Ontario) I learned that George's
> original submission to the RSCDS for Sauchie Haugh was
> different from that which was published and routinely
> danced outside the London area. Dancers from away who are
> especially keen on dancing in accordance with a deviser's
> intent might not be aware that the RSCDS, as I understand
> the situation, did not include George's intent in their
> publication, No 12 in the Leaflet Book (which incidentally
> includes No 16 Miss Catherine Allan, George's widow, with
> interesting footnote).
>
> In the leaflet for Sauchie Haugh:
> "Bars 9-16 1st and 2nd couples Rondel."
> In the RSCDS "Manual" for the Rondel:
> "Bar 8 Both couples dance out to own side, having changed
> places." The standard execution of this manoeuvre seems to
> involve (I'm not an SCD teacher!) dancing directly into
> place, as noted ...
> In TACNotes:
> "Cpls dance short way into place on bar 16".
>
> However, in George's choreography all four dancers were
> to cast into place during bar 16. The flow is then
> much smoother for the next bars which begin with
> "... advance one step ...".
>
> George left me with the impression that at the time of
> publication of Sauchie Haugh the RSCDS was preferring
> conformance with a standard. However, in recent times it
> appears to me that devisers' variations have been more
> acceptable and were Sauchie Haugh to be offered for
> publication today George's casting treatment would have
> prevailed.
>
> In the few years that I knew George I was impressed with
> his devotion to the aesthetics of the dance as well as to
> his enthusiasm for Scottish heritage. I think of him when
> I am enjoying Sauchie Haugh and casting into the beginning
> of bar 17! And I'm not alone as there are many other
> dancers in the area, including some SCD teachers, who know
> this story and respect George's choreography.
>
> --- Alex
> R A Collins, Toronto, Canada
> PS -- Regrettable length. Didn't G B Shaw have something
> to say about length of letter and time available to
> write it?
>

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28371 · Oberdan Otto · 25 Nov 2001 19:49:56 · Top

It seems I may be a victim of a fractured history. I hope someone can
set me aright.

I had believed that the Rondel was introduced by John Drewry in the
Silver Tassie. Now with all the talk of George Emerson and the
Sauchie Haugh it appears that I have had it wrong all this time.
DanceData gives the publication dates as Sauchie Haugh (1967) and
Silver Tassie (1968).

Thanks, Oberdan.
184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611 USA
Voice: (805) 389-0063, FAX: (805) 484-2775, email: ootto@ootto.com

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28372 · John P. McClure · 25 Nov 2001 22:14:41 · Top

My copy of John Drewry's "Rondel Book" is copyrighted 1967, and the notes
include " ... it contains all of my dances which use the new progression,
except "The Silver Tassie", which was published last year by the R.S.C.D.S.
in the 9th Set of McNab Dances, ... ".

Peter McClure
Winnipeg, MB

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28373 · adriana linden · 25 Nov 2001 22:48:48 · Top

From Drewry's Bon Accord Book (copyright 1968), in which JD describes the new
figure in detail:

... from the notes therein for The Quaich:

"The "Rondel", my new progression, which Miss Milligan herself named, is due to
appear officially this year in Book 23 in the dance "Mrs. Hamilton of Wishaw"."

Adriana Linden
Montreal QC Canada

--- joptmc@cc.UManitoba.CA wrote:
> My copy of John Drewry's "Rondel Book" is copyrighted 1967, and the notes
> include " ... it contains all of my dances which use the new progression,
> except "The Silver Tassie", which was published last year by the R.S.C.D.S.
> in the 9th Set of McNab Dances, ... ".
>
> Peter McClure
> Winnipeg, MB

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28383 · hways · 26 Nov 2001 01:49:39 · Top

Yes, the copyright date on MacNab Set #9 is 1966.
And I find the description of the rondel there almost identical to the Note
at the end of Sauchie Haugh in the Centennial Collection that I mentioned
earlier. The only differences are substituing 1st for First, 2nd for Second
and Women for Ladies. I wonder now if George wrote it, or if someone might
have copied the directions from Silver Tassie and added it as a note to his
submission. Perhaps Alex Harvey or some of the others from the Deep River
Branch who worked on the project might remember.

Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: <joptmc@cc.UManitoba.CA>
To: <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Origin of the Rondel

> My copy of John Drewry's "Rondel Book" is copyrighted 1967, and the notes
> include " ... it contains all of my dances which use the new progression,
> except "The Silver Tassie", which was published last year by the
R.S.C.D.S.
> in the 9th Set of McNab Dances, ... ".
>
> Peter McClure
> Winnipeg, MB

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28399 · Colleen Putt · 26 Nov 2001 22:06:08 · Top

Just because a dance was published in 1968 doesn't mean that John devised it
then. I was told by Mary Brander(sp?) at Summer School many years ago that
John Drewry devised the rondel, and used to drive many miles over
snow-covered roads in the Lake District to get to a dance class where he
would ask the class to run through his creations, if they wouldn't mind.
Among these "creations" was the rondel, which was finally accepted by the
Society in the "Silver Tassie".
I know this isn't proof positive, but I hope it helps somewhat.
Cheers,
Colleen

> It seems I may be a victim of a fractured history. I hope someone can
> set me aright.
>
> I had believed that the Rondel was introduced by John Drewry in the
> Silver Tassie. Now with all the talk of George Emerson and the
> Sauchie Haugh it appears that I have had it wrong all this time.
> DanceData gives the publication dates as Sauchie Haugh (1967) and
> Silver Tassie (1968).
>
> Thanks, Oberdan.
> 184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611 USA
> Voice: (805) 389-0063, FAX: (805) 484-2775, email: ootto@ootto.com
>

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28438 · Oberdan Otto · 27 Nov 2001 22:32:41 · Top

>Just because a dance was published in 1968 doesn't mean that John devised it
>then. I was told by Mary Brander(sp?) at Summer School many years ago that
>John Drewry devised the rondel, and used to drive many miles over
>snow-covered roads in the Lake District to get to a dance class where he
>would ask the class to run through his creations, if they wouldn't mind.
>Among these "creations" was the rondel, which was finally accepted by the
>Society in the "Silver Tassie".
>I know this isn't proof positive, but I hope it helps somewhat.
>Cheers,
>Colleen
>
> > It seems I may be a victim of a fractured history. I hope someone can
> > set me aright.
> >
> > I had believed that the Rondel was introduced by John Drewry in the
> > Silver Tassie. Now with all the talk of George Emerson and the
> > Sauchie Haugh it appears that I have had it wrong all this time.
> > DanceData gives the publication dates as Sauchie Haugh (1967) and
> > Silver Tassie (1968).
> >
> > Thanks, Oberdan.

Thanks! It appears from Colleen's and other responses that my history
was not fractured after all.

So, as I understand it, the idea of (George Emmerson) adding casting
to the end of the Rondel in Sauchi Haugh is an embellishment that
Emmerson liked, but has nothing to do with the definition of the
Rondel.

Even so, with or without casting, the Rondel heads the list of my
unfavorite figures with three strikes against it: awkward phrasing,
awkward handing and arches, which are inherently awkward. Perfect for
dancers of a perverse mind. Not that John Drewry has a perverse mind,
but then, perhaps he does after all! How else could he be so
innovative? :))

Cheers, Oberdan.

184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611 USA
Voice: (805) 389-0063, FAX: (805) 484-2775, email: ootto@ootto.com

Origin of the Rondel

Message 28468 · Jean Martin · 28 Nov 2001 18:46:26 · Top

I sent the message below a couple of days ago but it obviously did not make
it! Hope this answers the query.

"I have just confirmed with John Drewry that he is indeed the devisor of the
Rondel and it first appeared in The Silver Tassie in the spring of 1964.
The earlier contributor who quoted the piece from The Rondel Book of Dances
is quite correct - I've checked my copy. John also says that Miss Milligan
used to call him "Mr Rondel"!

Jean M"

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberdan Otto <ootto@ootto.com>
To: strathspey@strathspey.org <strathspey@strathspey.org>
Date: 27 November 2001 21:33
Subject: Re: Origin of the Rondel

>>Just because a dance was published in 1968 doesn't mean that John devised
it
>>then. I was told by Mary Brander(sp?) at Summer School many years ago that
>>John Drewry devised the rondel, and used to drive many miles over
>>snow-covered roads in the Lake District to get to a dance class where he
>>would ask the class to run through his creations, if they wouldn't mind.
>>Among these "creations" was the rondel, which was finally accepted by the
>>Society in the "Silver Tassie".
>>I know this isn't proof positive, but I hope it helps somewhat.
>>Cheers,
>>Colleen
>>
>> > It seems I may be a victim of a fractured history. I hope someone can
>> > set me aright.
>> >
>> > I had believed that the Rondel was introduced by John Drewry in the
>> > Silver Tassie. Now with all the talk of George Emerson and the
>> > Sauchie Haugh it appears that I have had it wrong all this time.
>> > DanceData gives the publication dates as Sauchie Haugh (1967) and
>> > Silver Tassie (1968).
>> >
>> > Thanks, Oberdan.
>
>Thanks! It appears from Colleen's and other responses that my history
>was not fractured after all.
>
>So, as I understand it, the idea of (George Emmerson) adding casting
>to the end of the Rondel in Sauchi Haugh is an embellishment that
>Emmerson liked, but has nothing to do with the definition of the
>Rondel.
>
>Even so, with or without casting, the Rondel heads the list of my
>unfavorite figures with three strikes against it: awkward phrasing,
>awkward handing and arches, which are inherently awkward. Perfect for
>dancers of a perverse mind. Not that John Drewry has a perverse mind,
>but then, perhaps he does after all! How else could he be so
>innovative? :))
>
>Cheers, Oberdan.
>
>184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611 USA
>Voice: (805) 389-0063, FAX: (805) 484-2775, email: ootto@ootto.com
>

Problem

Message 29558 · Stella F · 11 Feb 2002 00:58:11 · Top

Hi all,
Is anyone else having a problem with the server? I have not received any
messages for the past few days and yesterday when I posted my Tea Dance
information I never saw the post but had an email from Adriana regarding the
program. Haven't done anything different so wondered if it is only my
problem and would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks
Stella
Richmond, VA

Problem

Message 29654 · simon scott · 15 Feb 2002 16:43:26 · Top

I'm receiving now, but I didn't for just over a day or so.

Simon Scott

Hi all,
Is anyone else having a problem with the server? I have not received any
messages for the past few days and yesterday when I posted my Tea Dance
information I never saw the post but had an email from Adriana regarding
the
program. Haven't done anything different so wondered if it is only my
problem and would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks
Stella
Richmond, VA

Problem

Message 29560 · John K. Andrews · 11 Feb 2002 06:32:05 · Top

Hi Stella,

I received your Tea Dance post in good order.

Jay Andrews
Alexandria, VA

At 06:58 PM 02/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>Is anyone else having a problem with the server? I have not received any
>messages for the past few days and yesterday when I posted my Tea Dance
>information I never saw the post but had an email from Adriana regarding the
>program. Haven't done anything different so wondered if it is only my
>problem and would appreciate any suggestions.
>Thanks
>Stella
>Richmond, VA
>

Previous thread: Strathspey Program(me)? and Demo Moments????
Next thread: various comments
A Django site.