strathspey Archive: Celtic Clip Art (was Re: ..... Paint Programs

Previous thread: Dancing in Orlando
Next thread: contra dancing

Celtic Clip Art (was Re: ..... Paint Programs

Message 2319 · ReelLass · 25 Aug 1995 00:42:24 · Top

Jim Healy wrote
<<
Therefore, does anyone out there have a collection of SCD related
clip art which they would be prepared to make available for a fee. I
would be happy to pay a reasonable amount to add a bit of polish to
our Branch publicity materials.
<<

Here are some sources for celtic graphics I've found mentioned recently in
news groups (I have not looked at anything except the files at America Online
and at ceolas' www site at stanford.edu):

There's a wee bit on Clipart Heaven 2 CD Rom from Most Significant Bits,
15508 Madison Av, Lakewood Ohio 44017.

I found some nice celtic knotwork in the America Online Graphics forum.

There are 15 to 20 files of knotwork, some good and some so-so, at this site:
Anonymous FTP: celtic.stanford.edu
WorldWide Web: http://celtic.stanford.edu/ceolas.html

I was advised to check out http://www.tcd.ie/kells/html - they have GIFS from
the Book Of Kells.

The Corel Gallery CD ($35) has one nice thistle border, one image of a piper,
and maybe a scotty dog and some music-related images (violins, decorative
musical scores, pianos, etc) - not much, in other words.

I'd be interested to hear of other sources for Scottish/Celtic clip art, if
anyone else has some suggestions.

Terry Barron
San Jose, CA

Celtic Clip Art

Message 2365 · Michael Hanson · 30 Aug 1995 02:33:38 · Top

I have several images of SCD and celtic things from our newsletter
editor. I will send some of it to the archive when I get my main
machine working again. What format do people favor? Is PCX
generic enough? Or is GIF better?
Also - about copyright - do we need to ask the society before
using the crown or the dancers from their publications? (Or
can any branch use those?)
Several of the images I have were lifted from other newsletters
in the dim dark past - and now I doubt anyone even know where they came
from. We have used them in our newsletter for several years.
I have no idea what kind of permission we got to use them.
Any thoughts on the validity of posting them?
Do educational/fair use doctrines hold overseas - or is that just
here in the USA?

Thanks,
Michael Hanson, Seattle, WA.

Celtic Clip Art

Message 2370 · Kate Gentles · 30 Aug 1995 11:22:58 · Top

> Do educational/fair use doctrines hold overseas - or is
> that just here in the USA?

Certainly, here in the UK educational use does not justify using text or artwork
without permission. The only way you can use copyright material without
permission is for personal use, which means no public distribution of the
material.

I'm surprised to hear that 'educational use' is permitted in the USA without
permission. Whenever we use copyright material in educational books, whether
they be for USA or elswhere in the world, we always need to get permission. And
we have had considerable hassle in the past when we haven't done so!

Kate Gentles, Cambridge University Press

Celtic Clip Art

Message 2409 · Maureen Sloan · 5 Sep 1995 06:02:11 · Top

Kate Gentles is right to be surprised that 'educational use' is permitted
under US copyright law without permission. One can use certain materials
for 'educational use' without obtaining permission, but the conditions
are spelled out fairly clearly in the 'fair use' provisions of the US
Copyright Law. In general excerpts of a work may be reproduced under
certain circumstances, but reproduction of a complete work is not
allowed. Thus, for images (such as clip art) reproduction cannot usually
be assumed to be permitted.
In many cases where no profit is to be made from the use permission is
granted without any fee, but this does not remove the requirement to make
the request.
P.S. I am not a lawyer, but a retired librarian.

Celtic Clip Art

Message 2411 · Bill & Dawn Sodt · 5 Sep 1995 09:21:55 · Top

Maureen wrote:>Kate Gentles is right to be surprised that 'educational use'
is permitted
>under US copyright law without permission. One can use certain materials
>for 'educational use' without obtaining permission, but the conditions
>are spelled out fairly clearly in the 'fair use' provisions of the US
>Copyright Law. In general excerpts of a work may be reproduced under
>certain circumstances, but reproduction of a complete work is not
>allowed. Thus, for images (such as clip art) reproduction cannot usually
>be assumed to be permitted.
>In many cases where no profit is to be made from the use permission is
>granted without any fee, but this does not remove the requirement to make
>the request.

Maureen's information about copywright law sounds about right to me.
Apparently, there is a liberal application for libraries but, since we are
talking about reproducing the clip art for various applications, I think we
should stick to our own voluntary contributions. Surely some of you have
drawn figures, shoes, thistles, etc. or have someone in your club who has
and who would be willing to share. If each contributor would attach a
"permission granted" or whatever the proper terminology is to each piece,
then we could compile a group of clip-art graphics on a web page for
everyone to download from. As I was telling Anselm, I would be happy to
create such a page as it would give me a chance to learn how to do it.

The next thing that needs to be figured out is what format is best for
graphic files. Apparently GIF would work for both IBM's & MAC's as would
JPEG. So I'm thinking about it. Any input would be appreciated. This is
what Anselm told me:

"GIF is fairly widely used, but has recently come into disrepute; apparently
there is a patent on the compression algorithm which GIF uses
(Lempel-Ziv-Welch compression -- see, I know the buzzword...) for shrinking
the pictures. This patent is owned by Unisys Corporation, who recently
decided to start collecting royalties for its use. This may not concern us
directly, since only authors of programs that write GIF images are supposed
to pay, but it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Of course we could
just ignore the issue since Unisys are unlikely to go after everybody who
offers GIF graphics on the net."

"JPEG cuts a lot of corners to make photographs (i.e., 24-bit true
color pictures) compress well. When you are doing stuff that contains only
a couple of colors or a lot of sharp edges, like line art is wont to do,
GIF may be superior to JPEG for the compression. GIF images can only have
256 colors (i.e., 8 bits' worth)."

So, with what Anselm says in mind, can those of you who would be interested
in this clip-art page, let me know your preferences, please?

If you'd give me about 1 month, I'll work on a web page with graphics of my
own first and see if anyone can access them. Then, if that works I'll
solicite other clip art either by e-mail or snail and add them to it. If I
don't come up with something in a month I'll politely beg for help. Is that
alright with everyone?

Celtic Clip Art

Message 2418 · ReelLass · 6 Sep 1995 08:42:05 · Top

Bill & Dawn Sodt's proposal to create an internet resource for clip art
included this message:

<<
Maureen's information about copywright law sounds about right to me.
Apparently, there is a liberal application for libraries but, since we are
talking about reproducing the clip art for various applications, I think we
should stick to our own voluntary contributions.

Surely some of you have drawn figures, shoes, thistles, etc. or have someone
in your club who has and who would be willing to share. If each contributor
would attach a "permission granted" or whatever the proper terminology is to
each piece, then we could compile a group of clip-art graphics on a web page
for
everyone to download from. As I was telling Anselm, I would be happy to
create such a page as it would give me a chance to learn how to do it.
<<

What a terrific offer! And, there is some free graphics available for
starters.

I checked with America On Line and I was told that it is okay to give away
copies of graphics files I download from the Graphics Forum. Most of the
available graphics I looked at are "donated" by people who just like to share
and some of it seems to be "free samples" from commercial graphics companies.
Sometimes the author may ask for a shareware fee so we would want to avoid
those or make sure to post the shareware notice with the file (I've noticed
that more for utilities and fonts than pictures).

I also checked the FTP celtic.stanford.edu. There's a notice to the public
inviting users to upload non-copyrighted files. So, I would assume that means
that the celtic knotwork GIFs are free to pass along, but I could double
check that. The www address is: http://celtic.stanford.edu/ceolas.html (I
haven't looked at the web page.)

I've received word about other internet sites with celtic clip art that I
haven't investigated yet:

" ...they have GIFS from the Book Of Kells. Very nice indeed. The URL is
http://www.tcd.ie/kells.html"

and

"...I uploaded a mess of Celtic Art to the Geos (keyword:geoworks) forum at
America Online. If you are into Celtic knotwork and have the Geos
operating system then that is the place to go. All of the art is in vector
format and designed to "plug & print". It could even be described as a
Celtic knotwork construction kit."

So, if you go forward with the project, I would send you the bits I've
collected as "freeware".

Terry Barron

Previous thread: Dancing in Orlando
Next thread: contra dancing
A Django site.