strathspey Archive: 1800s

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1800s

Message 20639 · Dianna Shipman · 6 Mar 2000 06:54:29 · Top

Were there any Scottish Country dances done in the United States in the
1800's?
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman@worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More:
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

1800s

Message 20642 · Benjamin Stein · 6 Mar 2000 15:38:23 · Top

Dianna Shipman wrote:

> Were there any Scottish Country dances done in the United States in the
> 1800's?

Well- Yes and No! a number of our Contra dances came directly from some of
the "Scottish" country dances and some from "English" country dances. Note
that I put "Scottish" and "English" in quotes because there is some doubt
that the separation into "Scottish" and "English" for Country dancing came
quite as early as often indicated. In any case-examples on the scottish
side include

Petronella which stayed on as Petronella
Scottish Reform which became Hull's Victory
The Linton Plowman which became Jefferson and Liberty.
Note that in all three of these dances the Pousette disappeared and in
it's stead the down the middle and back finished with a cast off and a
"rights and lefts" was substituted for the Pousette. The Petronella that I
am talking about is the traditional one-not the current style. If you want
to see just how close this was to the Scottish version come see the Larkin
Daners here in Vermont-they are a demonstration group doing Contras in the
late 19th century style.

Ben Stein
dancers@globalnetisp.net

1800s

Message 20643 · Freeman/Pavey · 6 Mar 2000 15:52:44 · Top

We have found references to The Wind that Shakes the Barley, the Flowers
of Edinburgh and Soldier's Joy being danced here in Canada's Lanark
County in the 1870's.

Susan,
Maberly, Ontario

http://members.rideau.net/tay/sfa.html
Susan Freeman & Associates
"Working with you to reach your goals"

Dianna Shipman wrote:
>
> Were there any Scottish Country dances done in the United States in the
> 1800's?
> Dianna
> Dianna L. Shipman
> diannashipman@worldnet.att.net
> PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
> Houston, TX 77019-4946
> Scottish Country Dancing and More:
> web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
> phone: 713-522-1212

1800s

Message 20646 · Shengzhang Tang · 6 Mar 2000 21:18:33 · Top

On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, TayHaven wrote:
> We have found references to The Wind that Shakes the Barley, the Flowers
> of Edinburgh and Soldier's Joy being danced here in Canada's Lanark
> County in the 1870's.
>
> Susan,
> Maberly, Ontario

If I remembered correctly, the dance "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" was
devised by Dothie recently (i.e., post formation of RSCDS), not a
traditional dance (it is, of course, in the traditional form). Is there
another traditional dance with the same name? The tune certainly is a
traditional tune and old favorite going back long time.
Shengzhang Tang
from New York for another 1.5 months

1800s

Message 20652 · Lee Fuell · 7 Mar 2000 05:03:13 · Top

Susan and Shegzhang,

Re:

Forwarded by: strathspey-request@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
Date sent: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:14:26 -0500 (EST)

> On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, TayHaven wrote:
> > We have found references to The Wind that Shakes the Barley, the Flowers
> > of Edinburgh and Soldier's Joy being danced here in Canada's Lanark
> > County in the 1870's.
> >
> > Susan,
> > Maberly, Ontario
>
> If I remembered correctly, the dance "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" was
> devised by Dothie recently (i.e., post formation of RSCDS), not a
> traditional dance (it is, of course, in the traditional form). Is there
> another traditional dance with the same name? The tune certainly is a
> traditional tune and old favorite going back long time.
> Shengzhang Tang
> from New York for another 1.5 months
> --
> Shengzhang Tang <tang@hscbklyn.edu>

Shengzhang's and Susan's posts prompted an interesting thought:
I've been reading a bit lately about the history of Scottish and Cape
Breton step dancing, and was surprised to learn there's a
Hebridean step dance called "Flowers of Edinburgh," which also
has a Cape Breton version. J.F. and T.M. Flett's "Traditional Step
Dancing in Scotland" have a description of the Cape Breton version
of this dance. They do not describe the Hebridean version because
they were unable to fully reconstruct the dance, only a few steps.
The point is, we have a case here of a step dance and a country
dance using the same name, and the country dance "The Wind
that Shakes the Barley" not devised until recently. Flett doesn't
list a step dance by that name, but could Susan actually be citing
totally different dances that use the same name? The traditional
nature of the tune, as with the tune "Flowers of Edinburgh," may
point toward a similar situation.

Susan, is the context of your references such that these are
clearly country dances, or could they be step dances using the
same name?

Some other step dances that share names with country dances
include Blue Bonnets, Highland Laddie, Tullochgorm, and The
White Cockade.

Thanks,

Lee

Lee Fuell
Beavercreek, Ohio
e-mail: fuell@infinet.com

1800s

Message 20654 · SMiskoe · 7 Mar 2000 06:30:21 · Top

And then there is Money Musk which retains the triple minor format but is
danced as a reel in 24 bars. The tune is played as a reel, also. The circle
and 6 bar reel of 3 is gone, replaced by a right and left with the couple
above.
Cheers,
Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA

1800s

Message 20660 · Freeman/Pavey · 7 Mar 2000 15:10:51 · Top

Susan, is the context of your references such that these are
clearly country dances, or could they be step dances using the
same name?

That I don't know. I am trying to find out more from the local historian
who is my original source of the early social life in our county. As
soon as I hear back from her I will post her information.

Susan,
Maberly, Ontario.

1800s

Message 20661 · Benjamin Stein · 7 Mar 2000 15:12:37 · Top

SMiskoe@aol.com wrote:

> And then there is Money Musk which retains the triple minor format but is
> danced as a reel in 24 bars. The tune is played as a reel, also. The circle
> and 6 bar reel of 3 is gone, replaced by a right and left with the couple
> above.
> Cheers,
> Sylvia Miskoe, Concord, NH USA
>
> --
> SMiskoe@aol.com

For more on this read the little pamphlet called "Notes on Evolution" (I think it
was by Foss) which, among other things, uses Money Musk as an illustration to
describe how the original Scottish dance evolved, through several stages, into
the New England version.

Thanks Sylvia

Ben Stein
dancers@globalnetisp.net

1800s

Message 20662 · Freeman/Pavey · 7 Mar 2000 21:04:06 · Top

Lee Fuell wrote:
>
> .... but could Susan actually be citing
> totally different dances that use the same name? The traditional
> nature of the tune, as with the tune "Flowers of Edinburgh," may
> point toward a similar situation ....

Susan's dances were found in a reference written long before the current
"Wind That Shakes the Barley" was devised. There were also two other
dances mentioned for (for a total of five) which we can find no current
information: "She's Off to Miramichi" and Boni O'er the Alps". Some
strathspeyers may recall us trying unsuccessfully to find current
references to these two dances a couple of years ago.

Cole (Susan's husband)

1800s - long

Message 20672 · Rosemary Coupe · 8 Mar 2000 21:40:55 · Top

I found the question about "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" intriguing,
and consulted that good old stand-by, Flett and Flett. The dance is
mentioned once, in a list of country dances taught in the Kirkcudbright
area in approximately 1820. The allusion occurs in an extract from
Mactaggart's "The Scottish Gallovidian Encyclopedia" (1824). It's worth
reproducing, as "Flowers of Edinburgh" is also mentioned, but separately
from the country dances, implying that this is the hard-shoe step dance
"Flowers of Edinburgh." In addition, the style of teaching is one
described in several first-hand accounts of rural dance classes in the
Lowlands in the 19th century: it emphasized the dance rhythms by
percussive beating of the feet on the floor. Given this style of
teaching and dancing, related to the "treepling" steps which were
applied to dances such as "Petronella," it's easy to conclude that the
"Flowers of Edinburgh" danced by these groups was indeed the hard-shoe
step dance with single and double "treble" steps which has survived in a
version from Cape Breton. "Treeple" and "treble" are presumably cognate
terms. Incidentally, some of you may remember Anselm's posting of an
extract from one of Keats' letters describing dancing in Cumberland in
the same period: the same percussive, rhythmic style is described there,
and Keats remarks on its vigour and its dissimilarity from the softer
English style of country dancing.

Before I reproduce the extract for those who may be interested, a comment
on Duthie's "Wind that Shakes the Barley": all the dances in Duthie's
book are set to traditional tunes - even "Corn Rigs" and "Monymusk" are
used as lead tunes for dances of Duthie's devising. So it's not
surprising that he also used "WYSTB." The pattern of using different or
recently devised tunes for new dances had scarcely started by 1961, and
Duthie was of course following the traditional pattern of setting
multiple dances to a single popular tune and using the name of the tune
for the dance.

Here, after so much ado, is the extract from pages 28-29 of Flett and
Flett, with the original spelling.

"Commonly the first step dancing masters teach their pupils . . . [is]
Peter a Dick's Peatstack . . . performed by giving three flegs [footnoted
as a swinging blow] with the foot, and two stamps with the heel
alternately; . . . the noise the feet make seems to speak . . . Peter a
Dick, Peter a Dick, Peter a Dick's Peatstack . . . . When the scholars
become tolerable at beetling it, they are next taught to fleup through
the side-step; then Jack on the Green, Shawintrewse, and other hornpipes,
with the Highland Fling, mayhap; these dances are all got pretty well by
the feet in the first month, with sketches of foursome, eightsome reels
and some country dances; but if the scholars attend the fortnight again
of another month, they proceed at great length into the layrinths of the
art.

They learn the "Flowers of Edinburgh," mayhap; Sweden and Belile's
Marches, with other hornpipes, and country dances many; such as Yillwife
and her Barrles--Mary Grey--The Wun that shook the barley, &c. with the
famous Bumpkin Brawley; yes, and they will even dare, some times to
imitate our Continental neighbours over the water, in their waltzing,
allmanging, and Cotillion trade; ay, and be up with the Spaniards too, in
their quadrilles, borellos, and falderalloes of nonsense; so out-taught,
they become fit to attend house-heatings, volunteer and masonic-balls,
and what not."

Rosemary Coupe

Vancouver

On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Lee Fuell wrote:

> Susan and Shegzhang,
>
> Re:
>
> Forwarded by: strathspey-request@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
> Date sent: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:14:26 -0500 (EST)
>
> > On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, TayHaven wrote:
> > > We have found references to The Wind that Shakes the Barley, the Flowers
> > > of Edinburgh and Soldier's Joy being danced here in Canada's Lanark
> > > County in the 1870's.
> > >
> > > Susan,
> > > Maberly, Ontario
> >
> > If I remembered correctly, the dance "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" was
> > devised by Dothie recently (i.e., post formation of RSCDS), not a
> > traditional dance (it is, of course, in the traditional form). Is there
> > another traditional dance with the same name? The tune certainly is a
> > traditional tune and old favorite going back long time.
> > Shengzhang Tang
> > from New York for another 1.5 months
> > --
> > Shengzhang Tang <tang@hscbklyn.edu>
>
> Shengzhang's and Susan's posts prompted an interesting thought:
> I've been reading a bit lately about the history of Scottish and Cape
> Breton step dancing, and was surprised to learn there's a
> Hebridean step dance called "Flowers of Edinburgh," which also
> has a Cape Breton version. J.F. and T.M. Flett's "Traditional Step
> Dancing in Scotland" have a description of the Cape Breton version
> of this dance. They do not describe the Hebridean version because
> they were unable to fully reconstruct the dance, only a few steps.
> The point is, we have a case here of a step dance and a country
> dance using the same name, and the country dance "The Wind
> that Shakes the Barley" not devised until recently. Flett doesn't
> list a step dance by that name, but could Susan actually be citing
> totally different dances that use the same name? The traditional
> nature of the tune, as with the tune "Flowers of Edinburgh," may
> point toward a similar situation.
>
> Susan, is the context of your references such that these are
> clearly country dances, or could they be step dances using the
> same name?
>
> Some other step dances that share names with country dances
> include Blue Bonnets, Highland Laddie, Tullochgorm, and The
> White Cockade.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Lee Fuell
> Beavercreek, Ohio
> e-mail: fuell@infinet.com
>
>

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