strathspey Archive: cues...

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cues...

Message 19141 · Marilynn Knight · 29 Oct 1999 17:55:16 · Top

It's such a relief to speak one's truth, be heard, and not be
misunderstood. Thanks again for this forum. Each of us comes from a
different world view and so we process SCD each in our own unique way.
Nevertheless, when someone dares to express feelings, that should be
respected as coming from a particular set of experiences which are
valid. It troubles me when someone else comes in a loud(written) voice
to essentially say "Your feelings are wrong or trivial". I wonder if
these may be the same people who insensitively jump at others on the
dance floor.

I like Scottish Country Dance, in part, for the many levels of
awareness, communication, it offers. It's really delightful to connect
with people who have that quiet knowing about them that implies great
dollops of Empathic Wisdom.

I have witnessed bullies on the dance floor. Maybe they like to go
after the gentle. It jars me, as this dancing is so much fun and so
elegant. I've never liked a bullying attitude. Just because others
have neither experienced it nor seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.
Maybe bullies don't know what I'm talking about. I've seen it drive
away some of the very people who intrinsically are dancers, while the
bullies remain.

There is so much we do not know about others....

cues...

Message 19170 · harvey · 30 Oct 1999 22:41:24 · Top

Cues that I like to hear most generally end with a question mark. I would
much rather be wakened with "Terry?" than "TERRY!" Sometimes if I do
not know, but only suspect that my partner needs help, I will ask
"poussette?" as if I am not sure; a nod means I needn't have asked; a
relieved look means I helped; and a panicked look means I need to
follow up with a quick "yes, poussette".

I also like it when people help me by doing their normal handing for a
figure about half a bar early; it should not be the default that we
cue with hands, but an occasional early gesture can save a figure.

Like Mel, I forestall many uninvited cue problems by inviting cues. I
am good at giving my partner a questioning look; I find that asking
with my eyes often gets me an answer in kind: silent and minimal. For
example, I recently gave a partner the look (I think it is mostly
eyebrows, but am not sure) and she looked sideways, down the set, for
a moment, making it clear that that was where I should be headed
next. She trusted me to figure out the rest, or get it from my corner;
the cueing probably wasn't apparent to anyone but me.

I think that minimal cues are important for reasons other than
embarrassment. I think that waving arms and loud cues destroy the
beauty of the dance as much as a lost dancer, perhaps more.

Good discussion.

Terry

cues...

Message 19173 · ron.mackey · 31 Oct 1999 02:40:05 · Top

> I have witnessed bullies on the dance floor. Maybe they like to go
> after the gentle. It jars me, as this dancing is so much fun and so
> elegant. I've never liked a bullying attitude. Just because others
> have neither experienced it nor seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.
> Maybe bullies don't know what I'm talking about. I've seen it drive
> away some of the very people who intrinsically are dancers, while the
> bullies remain.
>
> There is so much we do not know about others....
>
> --
> Marilynn Knight <MarilynnK@sccc.org>

I so agree with Marilynn. Unfortunately many of the bullies are
teachers. I can picture several now who had either an excess of
enthusiasm, a blatent scorn of those not as fit or agile as they, and
a lack of understanding that some long to dance but have two left
feet.
I feel so strongly that two of the greatest attributes that
teachers can possess are, gratitude that they themselves are so
gifted and the desire to encourage _all_ who wish to, to dance to
the very best of their ability.

Marilynn, I have tried to send a message direct to you but - my
provider expects to see a dot between Marilynn and K and your
provider will not accept it if I do. Can anyone give me a clue
please?

Cheers, Ron :)

< 0 Ron Mackey,(Purveyor of Pat's Party Pieces)
'O> Mottingham,
/#\ London. UK.
l>
Ron.Mackey@btinternet.com

cues...

Message 19178 · Benjamin Stein · 31 Oct 1999 14:08:45 · Top

harvey@mail.eecis.udel.edu wrote:

> Cues that I like to hear most generally end with a question mark. I would
> much rather be wakened with "Terry?" than "TERRY!" Sometimes if I do
> not know, but only suspect that my partner needs help, I will ask
> "poussette?" as if I am not sure; a nod means I needn't have asked; a
> relieved look means I helped; and a panicked look means I need to
> follow up with a quick "yes, poussette".
>
> I also like it when people help me by doing their normal handing for a
> figure about half a bar early; it should not be the default that we
> cue with hands, but an occasional early gesture can save a figure.
>
> Like Mel, I forestall many uninvited cue problems by inviting cues. I
> am good at giving my partner a questioning look; I find that asking
> with my eyes often gets me an answer in kind: silent and minimal. For
> example, I recently gave a partner the look (I think it is mostly
> eyebrows, but am not sure) and she looked sideways, down the set, for
> a moment, making it clear that that was where I should be headed
> next. She trusted me to figure out the rest, or get it from my corner;
> the cueing probably wasn't apparent to anyone but me.
>
> I think that minimal cues are important for reasons other than
> embarrassment. I think that waving arms and loud cues destroy the
> beauty of the dance as much as a lost dancer, perhaps more.
>
> Good discussion.

Ah yest BUT, what do you do with a partner who won't look at you (or anyone
else for that matter)? I know of at least two people, who I suspect
sufferrred some abuse in earlier life, who just look at the floor all the
time. After several years of saying " hey, smile, look at me, etc." I have
just about given up in trying to cue one of them, other than verbally. Any
suggestions?

Ben Stein
Burlington, Vt.
dancers@globalnetisp.net

cues...

Message 19188 · Bryan McAlister · 1 Nov 1999 12:01:05 · Top

In article <381C3188.12CC97E0@globalnetisp.net>, Benjamin Stein
<dancers@globalnetisp.net> writes
I think there is an over emphasis against verbal cues. If I am or anyone
else is day dreaming during a set then eye contact, body language etc
are no use at all short of body language that involves a skelp on the
lug. Any way where does it say dancing should be performed in silence.
There are all sorts of reasons to yell or otherwise make a noise during
a dance, laughter for example.
Bryan McAlister B Arch RIBA ARIAS
Web page www.bryanmac.demon.co.uk
Mobile phone 07801 793849

cues...

Message 19190 · Pia Walker · 1 Nov 1999 12:13:24 · Top

What - laughter???? - hold on - that is a serious breach of all we hold
dear - are you really saying we should enjoy ourselves and talk, and laugh
with the rest of the set? Tut! Tut! What will the world come to?

bye for now

Pia

>I think there is an over emphasis against verbal cues. If I am or anyone
>else is day dreaming during a set then eye contact, body language etc
>are no use at all short of body language that involves a skelp on the
>lug. Any way where does it say dancing should be performed in silence.
>There are all sorts of reasons to yell or otherwise make a noise during
>a dance, laughter for example.
>Bryan McAlister B Arch RIBA ARIAS
>Web page www.bryanmac.demon.co.uk
>Mobile phone 07801 793849
>
>--
>Bryan McAlister <Bryan@bryanmac.demon.co.uk>
>
>

cues...

Message 19200 · Trans Vector Technologies, Inc · 2 Nov 1999 00:05:44 · Top

Hi Ben,

>> [Terry:] I think that minimal cues are important for reasons other than
>> embarrassment. I think that waving arms and loud cues destroy the
>> beauty of the dance as much as a lost dancer, perhaps more.
>
>[Ben:] Ah yest BUT, what do you do with a partner who won't look at you
>(or anyone else for that matter)? I know of at least two people, who I suspect
>sufferrred some abuse in earlier life, who just look at the floor all the
>time. After several years of saying " hey, smile, look at me, etc." I have
>just about given up in trying to cue one of them, other than verbally. Any
>suggestions?

We can all probably think of 1 or 2 people who don't behave/respond like
most other dancers we know and who require "special handling". If these are
behaviors you have not been able to change in years of interaction, then it
is unlikely that anybody has a magic cure for you. Whatever you have
already been doing that works is probably the right answer. While it may
seem odd or non-SCD-ish for dancers with years of experience to continually
look at the floor, those people do keep coming to dance and the dance
probably satisfies an important need in their lives. Still, I would not
give up on the "hey, smile, look at me, etc.". Someday you may break
through. Or maybe they believe they ARE doing what you suggest, but are
smiling inside and seeing you through the corners of their eyes.

Cheers, Oberdan.

Trans Vector Technologies, Inc, 184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611
Phone: (805)484-2775, FAX: (805)484-2718, EMail: ootto@tvt.com

cues...

Message 19205 · Dianna Shipman · 2 Nov 1999 00:36:51 · Top

Recently the dances Wood Duck and Delvine Side (no hands but lots of eye
contact) have helped people with this problem (lack of eye contact) - if I
tell them to think of it as turning their partners with eyes instead of
hands.
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman@worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Oberdan Otto <ootto@tvt.com>
To: <strathspey@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: cues...

> Hi Ben,
>
> >> [Terry:] I think that minimal cues are important for reasons other than
> >> embarrassment. I think that waving arms and loud cues destroy the
> >> beauty of the dance as much as a lost dancer, perhaps more.
> >
> >[Ben:] Ah yest BUT, what do you do with a partner who won't look at you
> >(or anyone else for that matter)? I know of at least two people, who I
suspect
> >sufferrred some abuse in earlier life, who just look at the floor all the
> >time. After several years of saying " hey, smile, look at me, etc." I
have
> >just about given up in trying to cue one of them, other than verbally.
Any
> >suggestions?
>
> We can all probably think of 1 or 2 people who don't behave/respond like
> most other dancers we know and who require "special handling". If these
are
> behaviors you have not been able to change in years of interaction, then
it
> is unlikely that anybody has a magic cure for you. Whatever you have
> already been doing that works is probably the right answer. While it may
> seem odd or non-SCD-ish for dancers with years of experience to
continually
> look at the floor, those people do keep coming to dance and the dance
> probably satisfies an important need in their lives. Still, I would not
> give up on the "hey, smile, look at me, etc.". Someday you may break
> through. Or maybe they believe they ARE doing what you suggest, but are
> smiling inside and seeing you through the corners of their eyes.
>
> Cheers, Oberdan.
>
> Trans Vector Technologies, Inc, 184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA
93010-1611
> Phone: (805)484-2775, FAX: (805)484-2718, EMail: ootto@tvt.com
>
>
>

cues...

Message 19210 · ron.mackey · 2 Nov 1999 01:21:25 · Top

> Recently the dances Wood Duck and Delvine Side (no hands but lots of eye
> contact) have helped people with this problem (lack of eye contact) - if I
> tell them to think of it as turning their partners with eyes instead of
> hands.
> Dianna
> Dianna L. Shipman
> diannashipman@worldnet.att.net

Nice thought, Dianna :)

cues...

Message 19217 · Pia Walker · 2 Nov 1999 10:01:16 · Top

Try lateral thinking: take them aside - point out a couple of
"beginners" - tell them you need their help - could they please dance a
couple of easy dances with them - help them through the dances. Maybe,
just maybe this might help - the reason these people might not look at you
could be because they are in such awe of you, and cannot stare directly into
the sun :>) Being the ones in control might bring out the best in them.

Pia

>>[Ben:] Ah yest BUT, what do you do with a partner who won't look at you
>>(or anyone else for that matter)? I know of at least two people, who I
suspect
>>sufferrred some abuse in earlier life, who just look at the floor all the
>>time. After several years of saying " hey, smile, look at me, etc." I have
>>just about given up in trying to cue one of them, other than verbally. Any
>>suggestions?
>
>We can all probably think of 1 or 2 people who don't behave/respond like
>most other dancers we know and who require "special handling". If these are
>behaviors you have not been able to change in years of interaction, then it
>is unlikely that anybody has a magic cure for you. Whatever you have
>already been doing that works is probably the right answer. While it may
>seem odd or non-SCD-ish for dancers with years of experience to continually
>look at the floor, those people do keep coming to dance and the dance
>probably satisfies an important need in their lives. Still, I would not
>give up on the "hey, smile, look at me, etc.". Someday you may break
>through. Or maybe they believe they ARE doing what you suggest, but are
>smiling inside and seeing you through the corners of their eyes.
>
>Cheers, Oberdan.
>
>Trans Vector Technologies, Inc, 184 Estaban Drive, Camarillo, CA 93010-1611
>Phone: (805)484-2775, FAX: (805)484-2718, EMail: ootto@tvt.com
>
>
>
>

cues...

Message 19253 · harvey · 4 Nov 1999 17:09:55 · Top

A post-discussion real-time observation with deliberate meta-cue
post-analysis for Bruce:

I joined a set in a class I was teaching, after having taught the
dance. My partner hadn't been standing for the teaching, I dragged him
up to complete a second set and avoid borrow-a-couple.

When we got to the top, I got involved in watching my class dance, and
forgot to start as a one. My partner, possibly assuming that I knew
what I was doing, possibly needing a cue himself, did not attempt to
cue me (to my knowledge). It is possible he gave me a questioning look
that I missed, but I don't think so.

Anyway, what I wanted/needed was a verbal cue to wake me up. I usually
argue for last minute cues, but here I would have liked one up to
eight bars before, and more would not have bothered me. "Terry" would
have been my first choice, followed by something like "Hello,
partner". A wave or frantic arm flapping may have worked, but I wanted
the verbal cue.

Terry

cues...

Message 19254 · eclyde · 4 Nov 1999 18:14:42 · Top

A not unusual occurrence. I have been caught the same way
too often in the past, when I have been so involved in making sure
that the dance is going well that I forget to move when it's my turn.
As a matter of policy now, I don't participate in a dance
when I am teaching.

I teach an advanced social class, usually with three to four sets.
Many in the class are older, so their footwork is no longer
what it used to be, but they still have a high level of dancing
skills as far as dancing etiquette and formations are concerned.
They also like a challenge from time to time so, for example,
last Tuesday's class included The Four Minute Reel
(Set and rotate, and Set and link for three couples),
Quarries Jig (interesting corners variation), and The Cranberry
Tart (a not-too-difficult fugue).

The Cranberry Tart is a 32 bar jig by Terry Glasspool,
the deviser of The Silver Square. Both dances are in his recently
published book, Dances from the Seven Year Itch.

Eric Clyde
Ottawa Branch

----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey@mail.eecis.udel.edu>
To: <strathspey@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 10:07 AM
Subject: cues...

>
> A post-discussion real-time observation with deliberate meta-cue
> post-analysis for Bruce:
>
> I joined a set in a class I was teaching, after having taught the
> dance. My partner hadn't been standing for the teaching, I dragged him
> up to complete a second set and avoid borrow-a-couple.
>
> When we got to the top, I got involved in watching my class dance, and
> forgot to start as a one. My partner, possibly assuming that I knew
> what I was doing, possibly needing a cue himself, did not attempt to
> cue me (to my knowledge). It is possible he gave me a questioning look
> that I missed, but I don't think so.
>
> Anyway, what I wanted/needed was a verbal cue to wake me up. I usually
> argue for last minute cues, but here I would have liked one up to
> eight bars before, and more would not have bothered me. "Terry" would
> have been my first choice, followed by something like "Hello,
> partner". A wave or frantic arm flapping may have worked, but I wanted
> the verbal cue.
>
> Terry
>
> --
> harvey@mail.eecis.udel.edu
>

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